Too much dermacrine?
- Thread starter elo76
- Start date
Smont
Legend
Don't know. I've gone up to 6pumps a day no problems
elo76
Active member
Just wondering because I have been using 6 pumps along with 45mg of epistane for almost 2 weeks and experiencing pretty bad lethargy.
I didn't feel like this until my 6th week of DMZ.
I didn't think that the epi would give me lethargy that quickly. If it is, then the dermacrine isn't helping. I have since added in some 4-Andro at 330 starting on Saturday with no change. I'm expecting it to take days for the 4-Andro to kick in. I'm still running the Dermacrine, but backed it down to 3 pumps starting today.
I didn't feel like this until my 6th week of DMZ.
I didn't think that the epi would give me lethargy that quickly. If it is, then the dermacrine isn't helping. I have since added in some 4-Andro at 330 starting on Saturday with no change. I'm expecting it to take days for the 4-Andro to kick in. I'm still running the Dermacrine, but backed it down to 3 pumps starting today.
Renew1
Legend
Some of us can experience some pretty heavy sides from Epistane.
I've stayed away from it for the past 5 years because I just didn't like the way I felt on it.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Yeah 2 weeks in is pretty early for epi lethargy. Have you been drinking a lot of alcohol? Or taking any meds containing Tylenol?
elo76
Active member
Do you ask about the alcohol/tylenol because of liver stress?
I had like 8 beers this Saturday and about the same the week before.
Maybe too much beer is the culprit?
bosskardo
Well-known member
Dermacrine should actually help with lethargy.
Don't know if that much beer might be dangerous but definatelly not wise. Hope you have good cycle support.
At 45mg epi, lethargy is possible at this point (not personal experience but I've heard of it). Not common but everyone is different.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Yes alcohol or tylenol plus a fairly strong oral like epistane could definitely cause liver stress, and make you lethargic. Why do you think I'm so tired today, lol.
GainVane
New member
Ouch. Been there, done that several years ago. I'll spare everyone the details in my experience but Epi + alcohol - Your liver is not stressed, its getting its ass kicked. Fatigue was the first symptom I had followed by many. Should cut the alcohol at the least and at most stop the cycle.
elo76
Active member
Lol....Maybe that's why I'm feeling better today. Gonna lay off the booze and see what happens.
Would you recommend sticking with the 4-Andro/Dermacrine combo for the rest of my run? Still have 4 weeks to go. Currently running the 4@330 and Derma@3 pumps. Down from 6. May bump it back up to 5 since I'm 232lbs.
Forgot to add that I'm running TUDCA@750 and NAC@1200. Going to bump the TUDCA to 1000 for the remainder and throughout PCT.
I'm getting a good 8hrs and getting a min of a gallon a day of water.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Sorry, cant really advise, since I'm not familiar with those compounds.
MySTeek
Active member
IconicForm can offer more insight on this.
mikeymike85
Well-known member
Ive ran Dermacrine on two orals, where normally I would be extremely lethargic. Ran 3-4 pumps of Dermacrine and I was feeling good, no lethargy whatsoever. Bought two bottles just to keep on hand for my next run. My experience with it was extremely pleasant.
elo76
Active member
I was at 750 and have since moved to 1000 since yesterday.
It's been since Saturday since I drank. Sunday...lethargic as hell!!! The last few days haven't been too bad. Gonna drop the booze on the weekend and see.
bruno.camilo
Member
Epistane sux ... Fking liver toxic compound and shut u down hard. Dunno if dermacrime is enought to combat the lethargy caused by zero testosterone and the stress on the liver(this also cause lethargy)
bruno.camilo
Member
edit: double post
elo76
Active member
And I thought this was mild compared to others. I seem to be slightly better with 330 of 4-Andro and 6 pumps of Dermacrine.
elo76
Active member
Just to update. RickyBlobby
I've had no booze and the symptoms were exactly the same. Even with 6 pump of dermacrine and 330 of 4-Andro.
On Saturday, my knees felt like I was a 90 year old man. This has never happened to me before.
For some reason this combo made me feel like I did when I was running ARA. I felt like I could only chalk it up to having low estrogen due to the EPI. I've read of people popping some oral Trest to spike estro and get some joint relief so I did. I took 25mg at 3pm and 25mg again at 9pm. It seemed to eliminate some of my lethargy also. On Sunday, I decided to start some Dermatrest at 50mg in the morning. That was so far my best day in this cycle. Not sure if it's placebro, the trest, or lack of the dermacrine, but I felt better. Today is the 2nd day on 50mg of Dermatrest and so far so good. I will know more later in the week. Also, tomorrow starts my 4th week of EPI
I've had no booze and the symptoms were exactly the same. Even with 6 pump of dermacrine and 330 of 4-Andro.
On Saturday, my knees felt like I was a 90 year old man. This has never happened to me before.
For some reason this combo made me feel like I did when I was running ARA. I felt like I could only chalk it up to having low estrogen due to the EPI. I've read of people popping some oral Trest to spike estro and get some joint relief so I did. I took 25mg at 3pm and 25mg again at 9pm. It seemed to eliminate some of my lethargy also. On Sunday, I decided to start some Dermatrest at 50mg in the morning. That was so far my best day in this cycle. Not sure if it's placebro, the trest, or lack of the dermacrine, but I felt better. Today is the 2nd day on 50mg of Dermatrest and so far so good. I will know more later in the week. Also, tomorrow starts my 4th week of EPI
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
You may be right about the estrogen. Trest is awesome
Jinsun
Well-known member
You are shutdown, have no e2 and no dht. Pretty simple 
Dermacrine converts to test at a really small rate. The ones that feel good on it on a cycle that shuts you down just baffle me beyond belief.
My experience with 4ad is quite fresh: a couple of weeks ago started an andro cycle that also contained 330mg's 4ad. It was not enough by far. My e2 was below the lab's range. Felt like chit. Get a lot more 4ad or just pin some test, it's what I did.
Dermacrine converts to test at a really small rate. The ones that feel good on it on a cycle that shuts you down just baffle me beyond belief.My experience with 4ad is quite fresh: a couple of weeks ago started an andro cycle that also contained 330mg's 4ad. It was not enough by far. My e2 was below the lab's range. Felt like chit. Get a lot more 4ad or just pin some test, it's what I did.
elo76
Active member
And I thought this epistane run was gonna be a walk in the park since it's so highly recommended as a beginner cycle. Give me dmz or msten over this any day...lol.You are shutdown, have no e2 and no dht. Pretty simple
My experience with 4ad is quite fresh: a couple of weeks ago started an andro cycle that also contained 330mg's 4ad. It was not enough by far. My e2 was below the lab's range. Felt like chit. Get a lot more 4ad or just pin some test, it's what I did.
Well...pinning is out so I will continue the trest. I'm guessing that I could probably bring in some epiandro for dht since I have the trest in there now right? What's your thoughts?
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Trest is a strong enough androgen. You don't need to add a DHT to it in my opinion.
Jinsun
Well-known member
+1
Why no test though? Trest is a harsh drug. If you don't like to pin get some transdermal test in a patch.
elo76
Active member
Just staying under the wife's radar. I can get TD test prop 125mg/ml. Too late for this run though. She questions certain things due to the label but dermatrest she doesnt.
I got her using some supernova so she is ok with certain topicals now...lol.
Maybe get some of the TD test prop for next time?
Burnfire
Well-known member
I'm just curious as to why you say that?
elo76
Active member
Have you used Trest? I've been using it at 50mg in the morning. Today is Day 3 and everything seems to be going better. I did jump start it with the 2 x 25mg of oral Trest the first day though.
Jinsun
Well-known member
For lot's of reasons. The most important being that supp companies can't be trusted with the content of the product. Did you see the report of the investigation they did in 2017? They bought 50 supp's from different companies that allegedly contained sarms. The results were... not so pleasing to say the least
Good UGLs and good reputable #1 rated seller are really trying to push quality products. The crowd that buys that product is also much more experienced and knowledgable, so fake or under dosed products will quickly tarnish the rep of an UGL. If you for instance look at pharma*com labs. Those guys are practically pharma grade lol. A bunch of fan boys putting top quality products (albeit at a premium price) to the market. I trust them 100x more then supp companies that don't have one independent lab review of their product. Not to mention that you always read logs that people didn't see any results, or saw moderate results, etc. My experience with ostarine from OL UK: it raised my liver enzymes 8x out of range. 8x times! My experience with cerberus v2, was (still am) taking 4 pills a day, which equals to 330 1ad, 330 4ad, 600 epiandro: My e2 crashed after 10 days of use. It was below labs range! That's with 330mg's of 4ad with bulsh*t cyclosome delivery system or what ever marketing thing they decided to label on it. With 330mg's of 4ad my e2 shouldn't be below readable, so who knows what the hell is in this thing. Overpriced bs. For 200€ (2x cerberus) you can buy enough test for 4 cycles that will blow that chit out of the water. Etc. etc. etc. It's just some companies getting rich of an uncontrolled market, selling fad substances with absolutely no quality control.No I haven't. Just going off of what I have read. But again, if you need a test base, buy some test from a reputable company and be done with it. You know exactly what you are putting in your self and will have much more stable plasma androgen levels.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Trest is awesome. 10mg a day of trest ace is plenty for a "base". Any more than that and you are in "cycle" territory. 10mg a day/ 70mg a week is probably equal to 100-200mg/ week of testosterone, which is plenty for a base, way better than dermacrine.
People who do 50-100mg a day of trest are probably near 500-1,000mg weekly of testosterone (or more). Trest is way more potent than test. Of course you will have estrogen sides at that level. But you will feel like a fukkin king if you manage those sides properly.
People who do 50-100mg a day of trest are probably near 500-1,000mg weekly of testosterone (or more). Trest is way more potent than test. Of course you will have estrogen sides at that level. But you will feel like a fukkin king if you manage those sides properly.