Tony Huge and Tylenol Liver Toxicity

[Chaosclarity]

I just saw Tony Huge post on IG about how his blood work after taking Tylenol was worse on his liver than when he took SARMs. Do you think this would also apply to a methylated prohormone such as DMZ? Thoughts? Is big pharma really hiding the toxicity of their products as he suggests?

 

[ValiantThor08]

I just saw Tony Huge post on IG about how his blood work after taking Tylenol was worse on his liver than when he took SARMs. Do you think this would also apply to a methylated prohormone such as DMZ? Thoughts? Is big pharma really hiding the toxicity of their products as he suggests?

Pharma knows full well Tylenol is very liver toxic. You have more hospitalizations for tylenol OD than steroid OD.

 

[kisaj]

My dad was popping 4-6 tylenol a day when he went through some shoulder surgery because he refused the script pain killers and his liver reads on the labs were off the charts. They started chasing liver issues and all he had to do was stop the tylenol and in weeks it dropped back into normal levels.

 

[HIT4ME]

Yes, Acetaminophen is the leading cause of liver failure in the US. But lots and lots of people use it on a regular basis. Either they are abusing it with large doses well beyond the label recommendations, or they are using what the label recommends over long periods of time...depleting their stores of glutathione gradually. My grandmother was taking 2g a day for a couple of years at the end of her life, while being malnourished (meaning limited cysteine available to create new glutathione, thus further depleting it) and her doctor insisted that it was fine because it was 2 grams and that was below the daily limit. Time matters.

I would suggest the same is true for SARMS. Using Tylenol for 6 months is probably worse for your liver than using a SARM for 8 weeks. But that doesn't mean that using a SARM for 6 months won't be worse for your liver than the Tylenol. Safety is funny like that. People are poor at judging risk. Both are risky, but most people would think nothing of popping a tylenol every day for months, while using a SARM for 8 weeks they would see as being very risky.

All in all, it is hard to compare. I think some people will hear this and think, "I don't have to worry about SARMs and my liver - it's safer than Tylenol." - but that isn't true either. Both should be respected for the damage they can cause and used with proper precautions. Just because a lot of people are unaware and don't take the proper precautions for Tylenol doesn't make a SARM safe.

 

[HIT4ME]

Also, a side note that many of you probably already know, N-Acetylcysteine is the antedote to acetaminophen poisoning. If I am on acetaminophen for any period of time I usually take it with NAC - although there aren't any studies I'm aware of saying it is helpful prophylactically; but logically it should be since all it does is prevent glutathione depletion and glutathione depletion is the bottleneck that makes acetminophen toxic.

 

[Chaosclarity]

Tone Huge claimed he took 1 Tylenol dose and his liver values were trashed as compared to a years worth of taking SARMs. I’m not saying what he said is completely factual, but this is just what he said.

 

[Chaosclarity]

Also, a side note that many of you probably already know, N-Acetylcysteine is the antedote to acetaminophen poisoning. If I am on acetaminophen for any period of time I usually take it with NAC - although there aren't any studies I'm aware of saying it is helpful prophylactically; but logically it should be since all it does is prevent glutathione depletion and glutathione depletion is the bottleneck that makes acetminophen toxic.

Would you recommend also taking NAC with ibuprofen? From my understanding, ibuprofen is less toxic to the liver.

 

[kisaj]

Tone Huge claimed he took 1 Tylenol dose and his liver values were trashed as compared to a years worth of taking SARMs. I’m not saying what he said is completely factual, but this is just what he said.

Definitely don't believe this and sounds like hyperbole.

 

[jrock645]

Tony huge is an idiot and a charlatan

 

[ValiantThor08]

Would you recommend also taking NAC with ibuprofen? From my understanding, ibuprofen is less toxic to the liver.

If you chronically take ibuprofen, take something like BPC 157, as ibuprofen can hurt the stomach lining, and BPC can restore it.

 

[StarScream66]

Tylenol is absolutely very liver toxic. PBS actually did a documentary on how bad Tylenol is, and I've been looking for it for years, but apparently it's been lost. But here's a recent article I found about Tylenol from the PBS News hour:

Acetaminophen deaths cast shadow on popular pain reliever

1,500 deaths in the past decade have been linked to taking a bit too much of what has been widely known as a "safe" pain reliever, says a report by ProPublica. The kicker? The deaths could be preventable. The drug acetaminophen, which is the active ingredient in the popular Tylenol, among...

www.pbs.org

Taken over several days, as little as 25 percent above the maximum daily dose – or just two additional extra strength pills a day – has been reported to cause liver damage, according to the [Food and Drug Administration]. Taken all at once, a little less than four times the maximum daily dose can cause death. A comparable figure doesn’t exist for ibuprofen, because so few people have died from overdosing on that drug.

All I can say is NAC, NAC and more NAC! I take a boatload of psychiatric drugs daily, so I take NOW Foods NAC. It has 600mg of NAC + Selenium and Molybdenum for liver health. If you're on cycle, I'd recommend 1200mg per day.

You can read all about the benefits of NAC on the examine.com article about it:

N-Acetylcysteine benefits, dosage, and side effects

N-Acetylcysteine: The latest and most important research. Expert analysis and supporting evidence for practical effects, potential risks, and more.

examine.com

But, all NSAIDs interact with the liver in some way. Acetaminophen/Paracetamol is technically not an NSAID as it doesn't inhibit COX-2 production. They don't know exactly how it works, but it's been theorized that it might actually interact with cannabanoid receptors.

Paracetamol poisoning - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

But, that's why I always take aspirin. I take it in the form of Alka Seltzer. Since aspirin can cause stomach bleeding, combining it with sodium bicarbonate is a good and often overlooked delivery method that helps the aspirin absorb without causing stomach bleeding. Although recent studies have cast doubt on aspirin's heart health benefits, it definitely has some blood thinning properties (which can help if you're on AAS, as AAS thicken the blood). It's also nowhere near as liver toxic as ibuprofen or naproxen is. The only problem it gives me is tinnitus because aspirin binds to some receptor in your inner ear, but it goes away after a day or so.

The other problem with NSAIDs is that they inhibit muscle growth, so you want to only take them when absolutely necessary.

Anti-inflammatory drugs can inhibit muscle growth

news.ki.se

 

[kisaj]

You’d be better served taking nattokinase which has all the heart and cardio benefits of aspirin without any sides.

 

[StarScream66]

You’d be better served taking nattokinase which has all the heart and cardio benefits of aspirin without any sides.

Well, we're talking about pain relief. But, I actually was in a situation where I had a blood clot in my lungs and I had to take a drug to break it down so it wouldn't get loose and lodged in my heart or leg or somewhere and kill me. It was a scary time. But I was taking nattokinase then along side of it because it has similar benefits.

It's actually in a supplement I was just recommending for someone who wanted to take 1DHEA but was concerned about his lipids.

One other supplement I might recommend to you for cardiovascular health is Source Naturals Heart Science. It's a multi that's loaded with ingredients for maintaining good cardiovascular health, and this is especially true while on cycle.

You can view a full listing of the ingredients here:

Source Naturals HeartScience™

Source Naturals HeartScience™

www.sourcenaturals.com

Nattokinase And Vitamin K: The Heart Health Boost - Life Extension

Natto is a Japanese fermented soy food with an abundance of vitamin K. Here’s more on how it supports healthy blood flow and overall heart health.

blog.lifeextension.com

 

[kisaj]

Well, we're talking about pain relief. But, I actually was in a situation where I had a blood clot in my lungs and I had to take a drug to break it down so it wouldn't get loose and lodged in my heart or leg or somewhere and kill me. It was a scary time. But I was taking nattokinase then along side of it because it has similar benefits.

It's actually in a supplement I was just recommending for someone who wanted to take 1DHEA but was concerned about his lipids.

Nattokinase And Vitamin K: The Heart Health Boost - Life Extension

Natto is a Japanese fermented soy food with an abundance of vitamin K. Here’s more on how it supports healthy blood flow and overall heart health.

blog.lifeextension.com

Ah, sorry I missed that it was for pain relief.

 

[BCseacow83]

Let's see the whole set of labs there Tony.......Yes AP has sides, that is why it has the yellow box warning now. How did the lipids compare dr. huge, lol.

I get all my sarm side effect info from guys selling sarms............dear lord.

 

[HIT4ME]

Tone Huge claimed he took 1 Tylenol dose and his liver values were trashed as compared to a years worth of taking SARMs. I’m not saying what he said is completely factual, but this is just what he said.

Is it possible? Sure. Take 9 grams of Acetaminophen all at once and you could have problems. Especially if you are on a fasting diet or something or have some other issue, or have some other drug use that has any interactions that may reduce glutathione levels. There is an acutely toxic dose. But 3 grams or less for a few days isn't going to be the end of the world by any means.

I mean, drinking alcohol can screw up your liver too. And combining alcohol with acetaminophen, other drugs, etc. Who knows what else he was doing and is just blaming APAP for it?

Would you recommend also taking NAC with ibuprofen? From my understanding, ibuprofen is less toxic to the liver.

NAC is a good supplement for a lot of other minor health "things". There is some evidence it helps with depression, may help reduce addictions to alcohol and opioids, etc. But ibuprofen isn't that hard on the liver - not saying it has no effect, it's just much more minor. The effect of ibuprofen is harder on your kidneys, so drink more water, etc. Unfortunately kidney health isn't something that has a lot of stuff you can take to improve it that I'm aware of. Would love to hear other people's ideas if they are out there.

Let's see the whole set of labs there Tony.......Yes AP has sides, that is why it has the yellow box warning now. How did the lipids compare dr. huge, lol.

I get all my sarm side effect info from guys selling sarms............dear lord.

Great point but up voted for the knowledge of the APAP abreviation. I have having to spell it out all the time but it can leave people wondering what the heck you are talking about haha

 

[aaronuconn]

Unfortunately kidney health isn't something that has a lot of stuff you can take to improve it that I'm aware of. Would love to hear other people's ideas if they are out there.

Morphogen Nephrogen

 

[BCseacow83]

Morphogen Nephrogen

A home BP monitor as well. If you are going to be involved in BB this should be standard.

 

[Nac]

Morphogen Nephrogen

Yip I was gonna suggest Astragalus. This product has a very decent dose (I buy bulk powder myself).

 

[Rad83]

Is this Toni’s way of shilling sarms (or whatever was in those caps) again ?

 

[HIT4ME]

Morphogen Nephrogen

Interesting formula. I am aware that astragalus has purported effects, but never researched deeply. Now I have more ingredients to research...the formula has some interesting ingredients. It does say it may assist in reducing kidney stones - I always wonder why more citrate (like potassium citrate) isn't used for stuff like this. Especially in electrolyte replacement products.

A home BP monitor as well. If you are going to be involved in BB this should be standard.

Agreed. BP is one of the worst things for your kidneys. I've actually had situations that made me so mad that my blood pressure shot up and my kidneys started hurting instantly - only once or twice in my life in some really extreme situations, but it really made me realize just how it can be bad on a personal level, haha.

Yip I was gonna suggest Astragalus. This product has a very decent dose (I buy bulk powder myself).

Yeah, this is one of the few things I've seen anything on for kidney health.

@Whisky was mentioning this to me a while back, he may find this conversation interesting as well.

 

[jameschoi]

Anyone tried taking nsaids after your workout and did you not get doms.

Yip I was gonna suggest Astragalus. This product has a very decent dose (I buy bulk powder myself).

where do you buy the astralgus in bulk?

 

[Whisky]

Interesting formula. I am aware that astragalus has purported effects, but never researched deeply. Now I have more ingredients to research...the formula has some interesting ingredients. It does say it may assist in reducing kidney stones - I always wonder why more citrate (like potassium citrate) isn't used for stuff like this. Especially in electrolyte replacement products.



Agreed. BP is one of the worst things for your kidneys. I've actually had situations that made me so mad that my blood pressure shot up and my kidneys started hurting instantly - only once or twice in my life in some really extreme situations, but it really made me realize just how it can be bad on a personal level, haha.



Yeah, this is one of the few things I've seen anything on for kidney health.

@Whisky was mentioning this to me a while back, he may find this conversation interesting as well.

haha, read this thread earlier and did find it interesting. Liked @Nac ’s post as he mentioned astragalus (which is one of the very few supps that has any kidney benefits backed up by studies).

I personally dose it at 10g per day and have done for the past year. I was going to just do it on cycle but decided the other plethora of benefits it has make it worth dosing all the time (and the powder is cheap enough).

 

[Renew1]

haha, read this thread earlier and did find it interesting. Liked @Nac ’s post as he mentioned astragalus (which is one of the very few supps that has any kidney benefits backed up by studies).

I personally dose it at 10g per day and have done for the past year. I was going to just do it on cycle but decided the other plethora of benefits it has make it worth dosing all the time (and the powder is cheap enough).

I think @Hyde might have something to add, about kidney supps.

 

[Nac]

Anyone tried taking nsaids after your workout and did you not get doms.

where do you buy the astralgus in bulk?

Ive been getting Starwest Botanicals' powder, all the main online retailers carry it. But theres plenty of other cheap (capped) options too.

 

[Hyde]

I think @Hyde might have something to add, about kidney supps.

Yeah blood pressure control is the top dog - prevention.

I have gotten to talk with all of the guys who have won America’s Strongest Man under 231 the last few years (you have to be a 231 Pro Strongman just to enter that show). These guys usually get as big as 260-280 offseason before getting ripped and cutting 20-30lbs of water to make weight. They are pushing everything. Something that made an impression on me is hearing one say “the length of a pro strongman’s career is directly tied to how long his kidneys can hang on”.

I know Dante has said the minimum daily amounts he has seen be genuinely effective is 3-4g daily, which is what he recommends to someone trying to improve numbers. In some extreme kidney damage scenarios he’s known guys to get more results going up as high as ~18g daily, but these are extremes he had heard of.

Pycnogenol at 100mg per day is something he recommends as well, and if you look at Nephrogen and Revive’s kidney product they both use pine bark extract as a cheaper alternative. Beet root, and anything that lowers bp and improves bloodflow will be helpful. That means things like nitrates (Vasoblitz), tadalafil, garlic, nattokinase, curcumin, hawthorn berry, grape seed, controlling bloat on cycle via diet and AI if needed, STAYING HYDRATED, doing routine cardio. Using Lisinopril or other script meds is much healthier as far as I can tell than damaged kidneys from high bp.

Probably many more things to try, but the gist is keep hydrated, keep bp down however you need to, stay active, exercise on top of your training, control bodyweight (lean at 220 is worse than fat at 220, but still much healthier than a fat 260 with the lean mass of the 220).

 

[Nac]

^yeah man, Pine Bark extract is another excellent option that is also great for endothelial/arterial/vein health. And from what Ive seen of the studies...as with coq10, go for the cheaper non-patented option. Pycnogenol is no "better" than your run of the mill Pine Bark extract.

 

[Whisky]

^yeah man, Pine Bark extract is another excellent option that is also great for endothelial/arterial/vein health. And from what Ive seen of the studies...as with coq10, go for the cheaper non-patented option. Pycnogenol is no "better" than your run of the mill Pine Bark extract.

I might be mis remembering this but I’m sure I’ve seen a study that suggested pine bark extract was beneficial for harder erections as well (based on the MOA that would make sense as well)....