VersatileGG
New member
Hey does anybody know if tongkat Ali raises or lowers DHT? I've been reading controversy about this herb and personally it feels very androgenic, as it deepens my voice, gives me loads of energy but I just want to be sure.
Tongkat ali
- Thread starter VersatileGG
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natureman4
New member
As far as I know the evidence for it actually being androgenic is inconclusive. There's some in vitro evidence that it could be potently anti-estrogenic but no good human oral studies, and if it raises testosterone or DHT at all it's unlikely to be enough to produce those changes you've described. In the past I've gotten mixed results from the herb, the best from raw powder but it unfortunately tastes like a grapefruit's a-hole.
If you want to raise DHT enough to have reliable and meaningful effects do an epiandro cycle with a product like Apex Alchemy's Stanogen, Competitive Edge Lab's Stano-Plex, Iconic Formulations' Ultra Epi, etc.
If you want to raise DHT enough to have reliable and meaningful effects do an epiandro cycle with a product like Apex Alchemy's Stanogen, Competitive Edge Lab's Stano-Plex, Iconic Formulations' Ultra Epi, etc.
Brocodeout69
Member
There's some newer research, and limited evidence, that posits that Eurycoma longifolia (Tongkat Ali) may improve testosterone levels and ED in men suffering from ADAM (androgen deficiency of aging males). Invalid Link Removed.
There is also some more limited research that Tongkat Ali can increase "testosterone levels and [has] demonstrated steroidogenic effects in young males." Invalid Link Removed
If Tongkat works for you, continue to take it. I use it along with boron for helping to free up SHBG on TRT.
There is also some more limited research that Tongkat Ali can increase "testosterone levels and [has] demonstrated steroidogenic effects in young males." Invalid Link Removed
If Tongkat works for you, continue to take it. I use it along with boron for helping to free up SHBG on TRT.
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VersatileGG
New member
Invalid Link Removed
VersatileGG
New member
This is why I'm asking if it blocks dht. This website says it does?? Is the website lying and trying to false promote something?
Anecdotally tongkat ali feels very good for me. Very strong libido, really deep voice And energy is unmatched. I use nootropics depot 10%
VersatileGG
New member
I swear tongkat ali really does feel androgenic. I get super insane stamina, deeper voice (pitches deeper), insane libido/wood frequency and energy. I just want to make sure it doesn't block DHT like this website I showed above advertises. I'll checkout your recommendations
natureman4
New member
I agree with you so this is unnecessary and purely recreational but that site appears to be dedicated to hyping tongkat? Lol. For supplement meta-analysis use examine.com Invalid Link Removed
I just finished using tongkat with boron for pct so I'm not entirely skeptical, just saying that there are several mechanisms by which OP's experiences--which are common--could happen. The pro-libido evidence is firmer than the evidence that's it's actually androgenic. If you truly madly deeply need to know if it's androgenic you would need to get controlled before and after labs, which are imo not worth it for 1 herb. More to the point, make decisions based on subjective effects / how supplement makes you feel, cycle on/off every now and then, and don't worry too much about what random websites say.
Go Flyers
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Smont
Legend
Time out
If you have already taken it before, it feels androgenic, it gives you insane stamina, increased libido, increase well being, more frequent boners ect.
Why the heck do you care if a study says it doesn't do those things? If it works for you then it works for you.
There are no studies that PROVE ANYTHING, there all just small pieces of information that point in a direction until another study comes along and proves it wrong, and there's always a study to come and counter the one you're reading.
This study says eggs cause heart attacks the next study says eggs are heart healthy.
The study says drinking alcohol is good for you the next study says the opposite
The study says fats good the next study says that's bad.
Your first hand experience, given that there is tangible evidence in your findings trump's any study you can read.
All of the effects you got from that product sound like it increases DHT for you. And if you want to know for certain go get your blood work done.
Smont
Legend
Every time you use a product and note results and side effects, you are performing a study. You're study might not prove anything to anybody else but it's the best study you're ever going to read because it directly applies to you and not some 90 year old woman or lab rat that you read about in another study.
Here's some thing everyone needs to take into consideration. If you are a man between say 20-50, you lift weights on a regular basis and don't have any underlying health conditions.
Then you need to read a study that was performed on men like you or the study does not apply to you.
A 72-year-old man with muscular dystrophy taking a sarm or any anabolic or test booster to build back or maintain muscle proves nothing for a healthy 24 year old bodybuilder.
Or a nutrition study performed on overweight females doesn't help you with anything either.
Get what I'm saying?
Read a few studies, use those to form a opinion on a certain thing, and then try the thing. The proof will come once you've tried it
Here's some thing everyone needs to take into consideration. If you are a man between say 20-50, you lift weights on a regular basis and don't have any underlying health conditions.
Then you need to read a study that was performed on men like you or the study does not apply to you.
A 72-year-old man with muscular dystrophy taking a sarm or any anabolic or test booster to build back or maintain muscle proves nothing for a healthy 24 year old bodybuilder.
Or a nutrition study performed on overweight females doesn't help you with anything either.
Get what I'm saying?
Read a few studies, use those to form a opinion on a certain thing, and then try the thing. The proof will come once you've tried it
Brocodeout69
Member
Sure and I take your point.
Examine is always good to go. The link I provided, though selling products, like Examine sells memberships, directly answered the OPs question in the first couple sentences.
I also don't want to come off as a dick, but I wasn't sure about the OPs English language ability, after his followup posts, so I figured less complex scientific language is more. Please don't take offense OP.
Go flyers!
VersatileGG
New member
Hey, you again haha. Understandable... I wanted to gather opinions from users in here before re-trialing. Question: Any Downregulation or shift of natural hormone production from long term use of this? In combination of other herbs?Time out
If you have already taken it before, it feels androgenic, it gives you insane stamina, increased libido, increase well being, more frequent boners ect.
Why the heck do you care if a study says it doesn't do those things? If it works for you then it works for you.
There are no studies that PROVE ANYTHING, there all just small pieces of information that point in a direction until another study comes along and proves it wrong, and there's always a study to come and counter the one you're reading.
This study says eggs cause heart attacks the next study says eggs are heart healthy.
The study says drinking alcohol is good for you the next study says the opposite
The study says fats good the next study says that's bad.
Your first hand experience, given that there is tangible evidence in your findings trump's any study you can read.
All of the effects you got from that product sound like it increases DHT for you. And if you want to know for certain go get your blood work done.
One thing for fact is tolerance so would you advice cycling these?
Smont
Legend
It's natural so as far as I know there is no effect on supression of your own hormone production, this is with all natural supplements or they technically wouldn't be considered natural as far as I know.
I don't know about tollerence but if it's something you know for sure that you will build up a tolerance too then yes you should probably run it for a period of time then come off time or rotate it with something that works similarly but by a different mechanism of action
I don't know about tollerence but if it's something you know for sure that you will build up a tolerance too then yes you should probably run it for a period of time then come off time or rotate it with something that works similarly but by a different mechanism of action
BCseacow83
Well-known member
Invalid Link Removed
Sorry, I just could not resist.
Studies are great and I will take a study on a group not identical to myself over nothing but I would never allow it to convince me I was imagining the positive or negative effects of any compound.
Studies are a great jumping off point and provide "leads" so to speak for compounds to look into but are NOT the end all be all.
Sorry, I just could not resist.
Studies are great and I will take a study on a group not identical to myself over nothing but I would never allow it to convince me I was imagining the positive or negative effects of any compound.
Studies are a great jumping off point and provide "leads" so to speak for compounds to look into but are NOT the end all be all.
VersatileGG
New member
Does anybody else get insane confidence from tongkat ali? I swear it even gives me swagger walk lol is this from elevated dht?
VersatileGG
New member
It makes me cocky too
VersatileGG
New member
I took a tablet today felt energy increase and huge ego in everything I do. This stuff really works
VersatileGG
New member
I plan to make a thread for herbal routine soon. I think they are worth the money (some of them) as a natural lifter or anybody trying to be more androgenic. Hoping to improve my stack and receive informative content. Cistanche/cordyceps and ashwagandha are in incomparable to tongkat ali and those raise DHT too, which is funny because tongkat is said to block dht which is far from what I feel
Smont
Legend
It's so true tho. I could make a fake or personal study about anything and post the links to where I did my research or lack of research and whatever the outcome was people would be talking about it as long as they could access it from the internet lol
Smont
Legend
I may also be wrong, but I do not think that I am.
I don't believe there are any natural products or combination of natural products that are going to make you more androgenic to the point that it's noticeable to anyone but yourself.
There's no natural supplements that I'm going to make you grow a beard put up an extra 50 lb in the gym overnight, increase your mental aggression for assertiveness.
That requires steroids and massive amounts of them. Far more then 99% of us here are taking
I don't believe there are any natural products or combination of natural products that are going to make you more androgenic to the point that it's noticeable to anyone but yourself.
There's no natural supplements that I'm going to make you grow a beard put up an extra 50 lb in the gym overnight, increase your mental aggression for assertiveness.
That requires steroids and massive amounts of them. Far more then 99% of us here are taking
VersatileGG
New member
I really do notice a difference with tongkat Ali in my routine then not. I'm definitely more assertive and bullheaded. Read my comments above it completely shifts my mood and emotions. Maybe im a hyper responder or maybe it's because im young, but in no way is it comparable to anabolic steroids as you said.
Smont
Legend
Ya you completely misunderstanding what I'm saying. I never said YOU didn't notice it. What Im trying to say is that the androgenic effects ARE GOING TO BE NOTICABLE TO YOU BUT NOT OTHER PEOPLE. The androgenic effects are not going to alter your hormones like anabolics, but if you notice that they work then **** it they work, so you shouldn't be concerned with studies and whatever else.
Let me ask you a question. And it's going to be a rediculous question but I'm just trying to prove a point.
Say you started eating apples for the first time, and all the sudden after 30 days you gained 10lbs of muscle and your dick grew 4 inches longer. But then you read a study that says apples don't grow muscle or make your thing bigger.
ARE YOU GOING TO STOP EATING APPLES BECAUSE OF WHAT THE STUDY SAID WHEN YOU ALREADY KNOW ITS NOT TRUE?
You said multiple times all the positive effects that this product gives you, so why are you worried about what the study says, it doesn't make any sense.
Just don't expect dramatic hormone changes, but the hormonal changes don't matter either because as you said again and again.
YOU ALREADY KNOW THE PRODUCT DOES WHAT YOUR LOOKING FOR!
dennywebier
New member
I like Tongkat Ali.
I'm 43 and have always been fit and active. I've always had confidence in and out of the workplace and can make major judgments swiftly with less information. In the previous year, there has been a rapid and noticeable drop in all of the symptoms of low testosterone: weariness, poor focus, brain fog, mood swings, irritability, low energy, excessive procrastination, low confidence, heightened worry, and bad sleep. My body crashed after two weeks of regular activity, something I'd never experienced before.
I told a friend the same age who had similar symptoms about Tongkat Ali and British Supplements. After some study, I tried it. I was less weary after 3 days. After five days, I felt energised and happier. On day 7, I returned to the gym with the zeal of my twenties and a faster recovery.
After three weeks, I'm still going strong. I'm fitter, stronger, more productive at work, and cognitively and emotionally better than in my 20s/30s. My symptoms have improved.
While not a cause for taking Tongkat Ali, I've experienced a rise in sex drive as early as day three.
I ordered a two-month supply and added turmeric. No problems ordering from Invalid Link Removed.
I'm 43 and have always been fit and active. I've always had confidence in and out of the workplace and can make major judgments swiftly with less information. In the previous year, there has been a rapid and noticeable drop in all of the symptoms of low testosterone: weariness, poor focus, brain fog, mood swings, irritability, low energy, excessive procrastination, low confidence, heightened worry, and bad sleep. My body crashed after two weeks of regular activity, something I'd never experienced before.
I told a friend the same age who had similar symptoms about Tongkat Ali and British Supplements. After some study, I tried it. I was less weary after 3 days. After five days, I felt energised and happier. On day 7, I returned to the gym with the zeal of my twenties and a faster recovery.
After three weeks, I'm still going strong. I'm fitter, stronger, more productive at work, and cognitively and emotionally better than in my 20s/30s. My symptoms have improved.
While not a cause for taking Tongkat Ali, I've experienced a rise in sex drive as early as day three.
I ordered a two-month supply and added turmeric. No problems ordering from Invalid Link Removed.
Dick-Hertz
Member
^^ Uhmmm... No...
VersatileGG
New member
No to what?
uforce
Well-known member
idk why no one has asked yet….. because it does matter…. what brand of TA??
VersatileGG
New member
I don't get why you all are in disbelief I'm not trolling at all. There are several posts besides mine which point to the same things I listed.
VersatileGG
New member
I literally just made this post to find out if tongkat ali affects DHT and everyone here is clueless apparently
Wobmarvel
Well-known member
I'm currently taking m test by cel. It contains tongkat Ali. My goal is to become a baratone in my local Barbour shop quartet
KvanH
Well-known member
Really?? They can? That's scary..
KvanH
Well-known member
I've been in the belief, that the major reason for TA to be included in test boosters is it's ability to lower SHBG. Freeing up test and estro could explain some of the positives you and other users experience on TA. SHBG binds to DHT as well, so lowering it could be freeing up DHT as well, but I would think an increase in DHT to be more likely from increased free test, that can be converted to DHT.
I'm going off from the top of my head, so my info might be out dated regarding TA, though.
I'm going off from the top of my head, so my info might be out dated regarding TA, though.
barische
Active member
Tongkat in theory will lower shbg and estrogen (depending on eurycomanone%), lowered SHBG should in theory increse free T. Now - which pathway that increased T would go be depending on many factors (aromatase/bodyfat, 5AR or inhibitor use?).
are you taking any 5ar inhibitors? if not are you taking any supposed 5ar promoters (cordyceps, sorghum, creatine, etc). technically yes tongkat can increase DHT if further DHT pathways are favorable.