To jab or not to jab that is the question

daniel35

daniel35

Member
To anybody that fights mma, I'm wondering why is it so hard to get a fighter to jab? It seems like coaches screaming, "work you jab" is the number 1 thing they say while their fighter is standing. Why is it so hard for a fighter to work the simpliest tool in their arsenal to its full capacity? I think this is part of why Anderson Silva is so good, he really has a long reaching jab and uses it so well.
 
Crowds boo the jab. You're absolutely right, though. Fighters are usually better off when they set up with and work the jab.
 
Jabs and leg kicks are the most underused weapons in MMA. If you hit 10 flush kicks to the thigh with your shin, then your opponent will not have a lot of movement.
 
Rodja said:
Jabs and leg kicks are the most underused weapons in MMA. If you hit 10 flush kicks to the thigh with your shin, then your opponent will not have a lot of movement.
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I completely agree. I would use both of these to my advantage if I ever made it anywhere in the sport. Just looking to get into it, myself.

Nick Diaz, though, does use both.
 
MrBrightside said:
I completely agree. I would use both of these to my advantage if I ever made it anywhere in the sport. Just looking to get into it, myself.

Nick Diaz, though, does use both.
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Bad example. He gets a lot of credit for his boxing, but he is technically horrible. No hip movement at all.

GSP is a much better example of a fighter with an effective jab and LKs. Pedro Rizzo back in the day as well.
 
In his fight against Gomi it looked like he threw nothing but jabs. Was just thinking of someone who used them frequently more-so than effectively.
 
Rodja said:
Jabs and leg kicks are the most underused weapons in MMA. If you hit 10 flush kicks to the thigh with your shin, then your opponent will not have a lot of movement.
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I agree.

I would add front kicks to the solar plexus as well. Jabbing is that part of the sweet science that some guys just forget.

I would also go so far to say that knees from different angles in the clench are under utilized by most. Anderson Silva does this very well, his knees come constantly and from many directions in the clench and they will hit you in the face. It seems to me that in the clench some fighters get too hung up on not getting put on the ground.
 
I've always thought the same thing. Too many guys are throwing crazy hooks and haymakers in hopes of getting the knockout. Need to be like BJ vs Sherk, just pick the guy apart.
 
Heh, bj threw more jabs than the rest of the card combined, that night. 100+, I read.
 
Does anyone here know where you measure from to get your reach? Is it from your fingertips to your armpit or close fist to armpit or something else?
 
daniel35 said:
Does anyone here know where you measure from to get your reach? Is it from your fingertips to your armpit or close fist to armpit or something else?
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Bro. you outstretch your arms, side to side and measure finger tip to finger tip. Nobody has 1 arm that is 83".
 
heavies said:
Bro. you outstretch your arms, side to side and measure finger tip to finger tip. Nobody has 1 arm that is 83".
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I thought maybe they added the two togethor, but your answer makes sense. I guess I should have thought it out myself to keep from looking stupid.
 
What is stupid is that measure, fingertip to fingertip that includes the breadth of chest, armpit to index finger knuckle would be a practical piece of data.

How come no ever throws a vertical fist jab or cross? a horizontal cuts better with the index and middle finger knuckles, but the vertical is more powerful and less likely to cause injury to the hitter, hardly anyone uses a standing hammerfist that could smash an opponent's nose and no one ever throws a double fist, very powerful and very hard to block, when done right.
 
Rogue Drone said:
What is stupid is that measure, fingertip to fingertip that includes the breadth of chest, armpit to index finger knuckle would be a practical piece of data.
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Think about it, if you're standing in front of me and I stand left foot forward with my body rotated close to 90 degrees and I throw a right hand which would be behind me, how far does the punch travel, just the length of my arm??

Answer

NO! It travels the length of my arm X2 +/- plus my chest width, thats why they measure it that way.
 
heavies said:
Think about it, if you're standing in front of me and I stand left foot forward with my body rotated close to 90 degrees and I throw a right hand which would be behind me, how far does the punch, just the length of my arm??

Answer

NO! It travels the length of my arm X2 +/- plus my chest width, thats why they measure it that way.
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Excellent callout! Rogue Drone actually knows very little about the sport. He just got very cocky after meeting Rob Kaman. :hammer:
 
Rogue Drone said:
What is stupid is that measure, fingertip to fingertip that includes the breadth of chest, armpit to index finger knuckle would be a practical piece of data.

How come no ever throws a vertical fist jab or cross? a horizontal cuts better with the index and middle finger knuckles, but the vertical is more powerful and less likely to cause injury to the hitter, hardly anyone uses a standing hammerfist that could smash an opponent's nose and no one ever throws a double fist, very powerful and very hard to block, when done right.
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I'm sorry, did you say standing hammerfist??? :toofunny:
 
I see a LOT of lazy jabbing around not snapping the hand back after throwing it out there leaving the chin exposed, i personally live by the jab it is my distance finder and often my first move in a combination.
 
0-hero said:
I see a LOT of lazy jabbing around not snapping the hand back after throwing it out there leaving the chin exposed, i personally live by the jab it is my distance finder and often my first move in a combination.
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I've already said but I love saying so here it is...

Its the sweet science, bro. and your right most don't study it.

The jab sets up any other punch you could possibly throw. I talking "crisp" stay up off me jabs. It is the foundation of the heavies high church of whoop ass.
 
heavies said:
Think about it, if you're standing in front of me and I stand left foot forward with my body rotated close to 90 degrees and I throw a right hand which would be behind me, how far does the punch travel, just the length of my arm??

Answer

NO! It travels the length of my arm X2 +/- plus my chest width, thats why they measure it that way.
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If you are throwing a rear right straight or cross (especially) from a traditional boxing stance *,you are rotating your hips counterclockwise back to near or at straight on to generate power, so the practical measurement is at or about armpit to knuckle.

I could see edge of right deltoid to left index knuckle as a practical measure or left to right the same, but not fingertip to fingertip.

* - traditional boxing stance as in not southpaw and protecting your centerline, a stance that is dangerous in a mma fight because of clinches and shoots.
 
TimberLakers said:
I'm sorry, did you say standing hammerfist??? :toofunny:
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Damn tootin'.

The next time someone gets miltant in your face, raise your palms up to protect your face and appear defensive, then whip a dominant hand hammerfist down on their nose, it will be shattered. It's a very quick instinctual powerful blow that won't break a hand bone.

Try it, you'll like it, they surely won't.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
The outer and/or under palm of your fist are both much stronger than your knuckles - much stronger.
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Well yes, of course it is... granted so is my butt - and I don't do flying anus smashes to replace a cross.

The reason no one uses the "standing hammerfist" in MMA is because the effective range is probably lowered by 60%, with no increase in power. Not to mention how easy it is to slow down the bottom of a hand disrupting the forearm. Also, when's the last time you saw a fighter that was concerned about breaking his knuckles in a fight?

A lot of people do use downward elbow / upward elbow smashes in close. Elbow hurts a lot more than the bottom of the hand. Sharper / more leverage / harder to block...
 
TimberLakers said:
Well yes, of course it is... granted so is my butt - and I don't do flying anus smashes to replace a cross.

The reason no one uses the "standing hammerfist" in MMA is because the effective range is probably lowered by 60%, with no increase in power. Not to mention how easy it is to slow down the bottom of a hand disrupting the forearm. Also, when's the last time you saw a fighter that was concerned about breaking his knuckles in a fight?

A lot of people do use downward elbow / upward elbow smashes in close. Elbow hurts a lot more than the bottom of the hand. Sharper / more leverage / harder to block...
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You missed the point; I mentioned its firmness not to prevent against injury, but to cause it.

The reason why you don't see many people throwing hammerfists in MMA, especially in the UFC, is a lack of creative stand-up ability.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
You missed the point; I mentioned its firmness not to prevent against injury, but to cause it.

The reason why you don't see many people throwing hammerfists in MMA, especially in the UFC, is a lack of creative stand-up ability.
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Gotcha, yes I missed your intention. The best thing about a straight punch is the ability to disburse all the impact and pressure straight back into the body - provided one knows how to keep their wrist straight.

I'd agree on the second portion of your second paragraph. The creativity leaves something to be desired. A lot of those guys are haphazardly developing their boxing skills and other stand up to augment wrestling or jiu jitsu - and it shows. Regardless, I still think this standing hammerfist is a weenie move... Creative in a bad way.

If you missed it turn on the rebroadcast of Andre Berto tonight. Can't get much more creative than a right cross to right uppercut that nearly decapitates a guy.
 
TimberLakers said:
Gotcha, yes I missed your intention. The best thing about a straight punch is the ability to disburse all the impact and pressure straight back into the body - provided one knows how to keep their wrist straight.

I'd agree on the second portion of your second paragraph. The creativity leaves something to be desired. A lot of those guys are haphazardly developing their boxing skills and other stand up to augment wrestling or jiu jitsu - and it shows. Regardless, I still think this standing hammerfist is a weenie move... Creative in a bad way.

If you missed it turn on the rebroadcast of Andre Berto tonight. Can't get much more creative than a right cross to right uppercut that nearly decapitates a guy.
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Put your left hand out (assuming you are right-handed) with an open palm, now strike into it close-fisted; now repeat the process, with a closed hammerfist: significantly harder, and more stinging impact, with the same force applied.

Now apply that force to a very fragile nose, in a downward motion. Bye-bye nasal cavity. Open palms are another great creative strike.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
Put your left hand out (assuming you are right-handed) with an open palm, now strike into it close-fisted; now repeat the process, with a closed hammerfist: significantly harder, and more stinging impact, with the same force applied.

Now apply that force to a very fragile nose, in a downward motion. Bye-bye nasal cavity. Open palms are another great creative strike.
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I get that "idea"... Thats why you have all those backwoods Karate guys breaking cement blocks with their "fists" in high school cafeterias.

Now trying to hit a highly trained athlete with nasty reflexes like that... with bombs / knees / takedowns flying at you... Might be a good move on the cage - but I'd still think the elbows would be more useful.
 
TimberLakers said:
I get that "idea"... Thats why you have all those backwoods Karate guys breaking cement blocks with their "fists" in high school cafeterias.

Now trying to hit a highly trained athlete with nasty reflexes like that... with bombs / knees / takedowns flying at you... Might be a good move on the cage - but I'd still think the elbows would be more useful.
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Elbows four sure, knees without a doubt...
 
TimberLakers said:
I get that "idea"... Thats why you have all those backwoods Karate guys breaking cement blocks with their "fists" in high school cafeterias.

Now trying to hit a highly trained athlete with nasty reflexes like that... with bombs / knees / takedowns flying at you... Might be a good move on the cage - but I'd still think the elbows would be more useful.
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That has got to be the most annoying fvcking thing with internet tough guys; people putting quotation marks around a factual or perfectly logical statement.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
That has got to be the most annoying fvcking thing with internet tough guys; people putting quotation marks around a factual or perfectly logical statement.
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Now I'm an internet tough guy for disagreeing with you...

The point I was trying to make is that this hammerfist thing is only an idea if it is functionally not useful.

If anyone is talking down to someone else, its you having me look like a moron smashing my left hand by my computer... Which is why the quotes were there. I understand the concept of the bottom of the hand being harder - which is why its useful to smash bricks with to get 10 year olds to sign up for martial arts class...

Fact remains is, there are a lot of brilliant fighters and trainers in the UFC. There is a REASON you don't see a freaking standing hammerfist.

Don't twist this into me being a tough guy. Relax.
 
TimberLakers said:
Now I'm an internet tough guy for disagreeing with you...

The point I was trying to make is that this hammerfist thing is only an idea if it is functionally not useful.

If anyone is talking down to someone else, its you having me look like a moron smashing my left hand by my computer... Which is why the quotes were there. I understand the concept of the bottom of the hand being harder - which is why its useful to smash bricks with to get 10 year olds to sign up for martial arts class...

Fact remains is, there are a lot of brilliant fighters and trainers in the UFC. There is a REASON you don't see a freaking standing hammerfist.

Don't twist this into me being a tough guy. Relax.
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What? You keep bothering me and I'm going to blow my birthday candles out extra-hard and blow you over.

You're an internet tough-guy because you displayed an annoying trait, and I'm not that bent out of shape about it. Calling something you did fvcking annoying takes about 38 keys and 10 seconds - I didn't need a counsellor for it.
 
Mulletsoldier said:
What? You keep bothering me and I'm going to blow my birthday candles out extra-hard and blow you over.

You're an internet tough-guy because you displayed an annoying trait, and I'm not that bent out of shape about it. Calling something you did fvcking annoying takes about 38 keys and 10 seconds - I didn't need a counsellor for it.
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The irony of you calling me an internet tough guy, and then offering to blow me over with your birthday candles speaks volumes about your ability to have a rational conversation.

I wish you the best of luck in your street brawls and barfights those potent standing hammerfists.
 
We had a session on jabbing tonight and half to three quarters of the class were doing some part of the movement wrong, worrying too much about the little things and not enough about the basics.

Ive seen one guy in there practising nothing but superman punches on the bags and his jab was terrible, not throwing it straight, not snapping it back to his cheekbone etc.

He has a semi pro fight on sunday aswell.
 
0-hero said:
We had a session on jabbing tonight and half to three quarters of the class were doing some part of the movement wrong, worrying too much about the little things and not enough about the basics.

Ive seen one guy in there practising nothing but superman punches on the bags and his jab was terrible, not throwing it straight, not snapping it back to his cheekbone etc.

He has a semi pro fight on sunday aswell.
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I see it as well. The jab is the foundation of stand up. If thrown correctly it can really benefit all other possibilities on your feet. Its not a power punch per say although some can really turn up the heat with it, it is your measuring tape, to set up your power shots.
 
Rodja said:
Bad example. He gets a lot of credit for his boxing, but he is technically horrible. No hip movement at all.
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Unconventional boxing technique but that "non committal" approach to punching allows him to be more defensive against shoots. If he was turning his hips into every punch he would be more open to takedowns and kicks.

So IMO, his technique is not terrible for MMA.
 
FrankJ said:
Unconventional boxing technique but that "non committal" approach to punching allows him to be more defensive against shoots. If he was turning his hips into every punch he would be more open to takedowns and kicks.

So IMO, his technique is not terrible for MMA.
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Did you see his last fight against Noons? He got shredded up because his technique is bad.
 
FrankJ said:
If he was turning his hips into every punch he would be more open to takedowns and kicks.

So IMO, his technique is not terrible for MMA.
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perhaps but...

The hips are supposed to rotate as fast as you throw the punch, if technically sound they move through their range of motion simultaneously with the hand. They should never remain rotated after the punch returns to the home position.

Also let me point out that if the jab thrown is a traditional jab i.e. unstiffened, the hip rotation is not accentuated. Conversely the jab may be stiffened by hip rotation.

However you can train to catch someone with a knee if the shoot occurs during a stiffened jab.

So just because you stiffen the jab doesn't imply that you are more vulnerable to a takedown per say.
 
standing hammerfist = creative.

i don't think so. it is slightly more threatening than a defensive limp wristed slap yet lesser than a caveman type strike. kind of a combo of the 2.

i would love to see some guy going around standing hammer fisting people in a bar fight. that visual makes me laugh
 
dynomite said:
standing hammerfist = creative.

i don't think so. it is slightly more threatening than a defensive limp wristed slap yet lesser than a caveman type strike. kind of a combo of the 2.

i would love to see some guy going around standing hammer fisting people in a bar fight. that visual makes me laugh
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It's up there with the pectoral slap and the Boston Crab in terms of devastating power.

Perhaps we'll someday see enough creativity for an eye gouge or a moonsault.
 
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