TMG as a Liver Supplement

Beau

Beau

Well-known member
I've heard many good things about TMG as a liver supplement, and like the fact TMG becomes DMG. I do not believe I've read anything on this board re TMG as a liver supplement.

What are your thoughts and opinions on TMG?
 
I will wait for LakeMountD to comment as he researched TMG for Cycle Support product and found some real negatives about it.

CROWLER
 
Run a search on Betaine (another name for TMG). I've seen some info on that on the board.

Invalid Link Removed
 
We were thinking of using this in cycle support as it was recommended by some users. Luckily I did careful research on this stuff and found this and a few others.


Effect of Homocysteine-Lowering Nutrients on Blood Lipids: Results from Four Randomised, Placebo-Controlled Studies in Healthy Humans

Margreet R. Olthof 1*, Trinette van Vliet 2, Petra Verhoef1, Peter L. Zock 1, Martijn B. Katan1

1 Wageningen Centre for Food Sciences and Division of Human Nutrition, Wageningen University, Wageningen, the Netherlands, 2 TNO Quality of Life, Zeist, the Netherlands
ABSTRACT
Background

Betaine (trimethylglycine) lowers plasma homocysteine, a possible risk factor for cardiovascular disease. However, studies in renal patients and in obese individuals who are on a weight-loss diet suggest that betaine supplementation raises blood cholesterol; data in healthy individuals are lacking. Such an effect on cholesterol would counteract any favourable effect on homocysteine. We therefore investigated the effect of betaine, of its precursor choline in the form of phosphatidylcholine, and of the classical homocysteine-lowering vitamin folic acid on blood lipid concentrations in healthy humans.
Methods and Findings

We measured blood lipids in four placebo-controlled, randomised intervention studies that examined the effect of betaine (three studies, n = 151), folic acid (two studies, n = 75), and phosphatidylcholine (one study, n = 26) on plasma homocysteine concentrations. We combined blood lipid data from the individual studies and calculated a weighted mean change in blood lipid concentrations relative to placebo. Betaine supplementation (6 g/d) for 6 wk increased blood LDL cholesterol concentrations by 0.36 mmol/l (95% confidence interval: 0.25–0.46), and triacylglycerol concentrations by 0.14 mmol/l (0.04–0.23) relative to placebo. The ratio of total to HDL cholesterol increased by 0.23 (0.14–0.32). Concentrations of HDL cholesterol were not affected. Doses of betaine lower than 6 g/d also raised LDL cholesterol, but these changes were not statistically significant. Further, the effect of betaine on LDL cholesterol was already evident after 2 wk of intervention. Phosphatidylcholine supplementation (providing approximately 2.6 g/d of choline) for 2 wk increased triacylglycerol concentrations by 0.14 mmol/l (0.06–0.21), but did not affect cholesterol concentrations. Folic acid supplementation (0.8 mg/d) had no effect on lipid concentrations.
Conclusions

Betaine supplementation increased blood LDL cholesterol and triacylglycerol concentrations in healthy humans, which agrees with the limited previous data. The adverse effects on blood lipids may undo the potential benefits for cardiovascular health of betaine supplementation through homocysteine lowering. In our study phosphatidylcholine supplementation slightly increased triacylglycerol concentrations in healthy humans. Previous studies of phosphatidylcholine and blood lipids showed no clear effect. Thus the effect of phosphatidylcholine supplementation on blood lipids remains inconclusive, but is probably not large.

Folic acid supplementation does not seem to affect blood lipids and therefore remains the preferred treatment for lowering of blood homocysteine concentrations.
 
LakeMountD said:
I'll look tomorrow, it is getting late.
Click to expand...

Thanks very much. SAMe seems like a natural supplement for this lifestyle and I've always assumed it wasn't used because of its price.....it would be interesting to see what info is out there.
 
yeahright said:
Thanks very much. SAMe seems like a natural supplement for this lifestyle and I've always assumed it wasn't used because of its price.....it would be interesting to see what info is out there.
Click to expand...

what does it stand for?
 
Guys guys slow down.

I know it is LakeMountD who does all the intellectual reasearch lookie lous but then he sends me like 100 emails and wants me to price this thing then that and then he emails me spread sheets to look at, examine, interpret etc etc etc.

Guys don't tell him but I can't even open the spread sheets he sends me my computer only has 1MB of RAM.

REALLY I can't take it anymore. LakeMount had about 112 new products in the works. I think I am having a nervous break down.

:)

Kidding of course. LakeMount is a reasearch nut and is the VERY best and I realize I am so VERY lucky to have him doing all the things he is.


CROWLER
 
Oh SHEESH.

You guys see what I mean. He says over half an hour ago he would look tomorrow. Then 10 mins later he wants to know what it stands for.

Now I see his board name down at the bottom of this thread STILL reading.

LMD GO TO BED YOU HAVE CLASS IN THE AM!!!!!!!!!!!


CROWLER
 
Haha you bastage! Damn you CROWLER you better get some RAM! I don't care if you do live in the middle of nowhere haha :fart:

Anyways yes I am a research not. In between a movie that my roommates and a bunch of girls were watching (we were putting a second one on) I came in here and answered some of the e-mails lol, it really is a sad obsession.

And yes CROWLER gets 483 e-mails when a new product is close to being complete haha.
 
LakeMountD said:
We were thinking of using this in cycle support as it was recommended by some users. Luckily I did careful research on this stuff and found this and a few others.


Effect of Homocysteine-Lowering Nutrients on Blood Lipids: Results from Four Randomised, Placebo-Controlled Studies in Healthy Humans

Margreet R. Olthof 1*, Trinette van Vliet 2, Petra Verhoef1, Peter L. Zock 1, Martijn B. Katan1

1 Wageningen Centre for Food Sciences and Division of Human Nutrition, Wageningen University, Wageningen, the Netherlands, 2 TNO Quality of Life, Zeist, the Netherlands
ABSTRACT
Background

Betaine (trimethylglycine) lowers plasma homocysteine, a possible risk factor for cardiovascular disease. However, studies in renal patients and in obese individuals who are on a weight-loss diet suggest that betaine supplementation raises blood cholesterol; data in healthy individuals are lacking. Such an effect on cholesterol would counteract any favourable effect on homocysteine. We therefore investigated the effect of betaine, of its precursor choline in the form of phosphatidylcholine, and of the classical homocysteine-lowering vitamin folic acid on blood lipid concentrations in healthy humans.
Methods and Findings

We measured blood lipids in four placebo-controlled, randomised intervention studies that examined the effect of betaine (three studies, n = 151), folic acid (two studies, n = 75), and phosphatidylcholine (one study, n = 26) on plasma homocysteine concentrations. We combined blood lipid data from the individual studies and calculated a weighted mean change in blood lipid concentrations relative to placebo. Betaine supplementation (6 g/d) for 6 wk increased blood LDL cholesterol concentrations by 0.36 mmol/l (95% confidence interval: 0.25–0.46), and triacylglycerol concentrations by 0.14 mmol/l (0.04–0.23) relative to placebo. The ratio of total to HDL cholesterol increased by 0.23 (0.14–0.32). Concentrations of HDL cholesterol were not affected. Doses of betaine lower than 6 g/d also raised LDL cholesterol, but these changes were not statistically significant. Further, the effect of betaine on LDL cholesterol was already evident after 2 wk of intervention. Phosphatidylcholine supplementation (providing approximately 2.6 g/d of choline) for 2 wk increased triacylglycerol concentrations by 0.14 mmol/l (0.06–0.21), but did not affect cholesterol concentrations. Folic acid supplementation (0.8 mg/d) had no effect on lipid concentrations.
Conclusions

Betaine supplementation increased blood LDL cholesterol and triacylglycerol concentrations in healthy humans, which agrees with the limited previous data. The adverse effects on blood lipids may undo the potential benefits for cardiovascular health of betaine supplementation through homocysteine lowering. In our study phosphatidylcholine supplementation slightly increased triacylglycerol concentrations in healthy humans. Previous studies of phosphatidylcholine and blood lipids showed no clear effect. Thus the effect of phosphatidylcholine supplementation on blood lipids remains inconclusive, but is probably not large.

Folic acid supplementation does not seem to affect blood lipids and therefore remains the preferred treatment for lowering of blood homocysteine concentrations.
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[Gulp] Wow.
 
LakeMountD said:
Haha you bastage! Damn you CROWLER you better get some RAM! I don't care if you do live in the middle of nowhere haha :fart:

Anyways yes I am a research not. In between a movie that my roommates and a bunch of girls were watching (we were putting a second one on) I came in here and answered some of the e-mails lol, it really is a sad obsession.

And yes CROWLER gets 483 e-mails when a new product is close to being complete haha.
Click to expand...

Ok we both know I am considerably older than you so I do hope you will listen and take heed of my advice and RUN!

RUN FAST AND RUN FAR> Do not look back. Get out now man while you can.

It is already too late for me. I can't even go to the beach and not think about all this stuff. In the middle of watching TV I will think about this stuff.

Even if I wake up for 10 seconds in the middle of the night I immediately start thinking about studies, products, customers etc. So get out NOW!:trout:


CROWLER
 
CROWLER said:
Ok we both know I am considerably older than you so I do hope you will listen and take heed of my advice and RUN!

RUN FAST AND RUN FAR> Do not look back. Get out now man while you can.

It is already too late for me. I can't even go to the beach and not think about all this stuff. In the middle of watching TV I will think about this stuff.

Even if I wake up for 10 seconds in the middle of the night I immediately start thinking about studies, products, customers etc. So get out NOW!:trout:


CROWLER
Click to expand...

It is too late now, I am already caught in it. Think about something, get up and go to the comp and look it up.
 
yeahright said:
Thanks very much. SAMe seems like a natural supplement for this lifestyle and I've always assumed it wasn't used because of its price.....it would be interesting to see what info is out there.
Click to expand...

S-adenosylmethionine treatment prevents carbon tetrachloride-induced S-adenosylmethionine synthetase inactivation and attenuates liver injury.

Corrales F, Gimenez A, Alvarez L, Caballeria J, Pajares MA, Andreu H, Pares A, Mato JM, Rodes J.

Instituto de Investigaciones Biomedicas, Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Cientificas, Madrid, Spain.

Administration of carbon tetrachloride to rats resulted in induction of hepatic fibrosis and a 60% reduction of hepatic S-adenosylmethionine synthetase activity without producing any significant modification of hepatic levels of S-adenosylmethionine synthetase messenger RNA. The reduction of S-adenosylmethionine synthetase activity was corrected by treatment with S-adenosylmethionine (3 mg/kg/day, intramuscularly). Administration of carbon tetrachloride also produced a 45% depletion of liver glutathione (reduced form) that was corrected by S-adenosylmethionine treatment. After the rats received carbon tetrachloride, a 2.3-fold increase in liver collagen was observed; prolyl hydroxylase activity was 2.5 times greater than that seen in controls. These increases were attenuated in animals treated with carbon tetrachloride and S-adenosylmethionine. The attenuation by S-adenosylmethionine treatment of the fibrogenic effect of carbon tetrachloride was associated with a decrease in the number of rats in which cirrhosis developed.




Alcoholic liver disease: new insights in pathogenesis lead to new treatments.

Lieber CS.

Alcohol Research and Treatment Center, Bronx Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Mount Sinai School of Medicine, NY 10468, USA. [email protected]

Much progress has been made in the understanding of the pathogenesis of alcoholic liver disease, resulting in improvement of prevention and therapy, with promising prospects for even more effective treatments. The most successful approaches that one can expect to evolve are those that deal with the fundamental cellular disturbances resulting from excessive alcohol consumption. Two pathologic concepts are emerging as particularly useful therapeutically. Whereas it continues to be important to replenish nutritional deficiencies, when present, it is crucial to recognize that because of the alcohol-induced disease process, some of the nutritional requirements change. This is exemplified by methionine, which normally is one of the essential amino acids for humans, but needs to be activated to S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), a process impaired by the disease. Thus, SAMe rather than methionine is the compound that must be supplemented in the presence of significant liver disease. Indeed, SAMe was found to attenuate mitochondrial lesions in baboons, replenish glutathione, and significantly reduce mortality in patients with Child A or B cirrhosis.
 
LakeMountD said:
S-adenosylmethionine treatment prevents carbon tetrachloride-induced S-adenosylmethionine synthetase inactivation and attenuates liver injury.

Corrales F, Gimenez A, Alvarez L, Caballeria J, Pajares MA, Andreu H, Pares A, Mato JM, Rodes J.

Instituto de Investigaciones Biomedicas, Consejo Superior de Investigaciones Cientificas, Madrid, Spain.

Administration of carbon tetrachloride to rats resulted in induction of hepatic fibrosis and a 60% reduction of hepatic S-adenosylmethionine synthetase activity without producing any significant modification of hepatic levels of S-adenosylmethionine synthetase messenger RNA. The reduction of S-adenosylmethionine synthetase activity was corrected by treatment with S-adenosylmethionine (3 mg/kg/day, intramuscularly). Administration of carbon tetrachloride also produced a 45% depletion of liver glutathione (reduced form) that was corrected by S-adenosylmethionine treatment. After the rats received carbon tetrachloride, a 2.3-fold increase in liver collagen was observed; prolyl hydroxylase activity was 2.5 times greater than that seen in controls. These increases were attenuated in animals treated with carbon tetrachloride and S-adenosylmethionine. The attenuation by S-adenosylmethionine treatment of the fibrogenic effect of carbon tetrachloride was associated with a decrease in the number of rats in which cirrhosis developed.




Alcoholic liver disease: new insights in pathogenesis lead to new treatments.

Lieber CS.

Alcohol Research and Treatment Center, Bronx Veterans Affairs Medical Center and Mount Sinai School of Medicine, NY 10468, USA. [email protected]

Much progress has been made in the understanding of the pathogenesis of alcoholic liver disease, resulting in improvement of prevention and therapy, with promising prospects for even more effective treatments. The most successful approaches that one can expect to evolve are those that deal with the fundamental cellular disturbances resulting from excessive alcohol consumption. Two pathologic concepts are emerging as particularly useful therapeutically. Whereas it continues to be important to replenish nutritional deficiencies, when present, it is crucial to recognize that because of the alcohol-induced disease process, some of the nutritional requirements change. This is exemplified by methionine, which normally is one of the essential amino acids for humans, but needs to be activated to S-adenosylmethionine (SAMe), a process impaired by the disease. Thus, SAMe rather than methionine is the compound that must be supplemented in the presence of significant liver disease. Indeed, SAMe was found to attenuate mitochondrial lesions in baboons, replenish glutathione, and significantly reduce mortality in patients with Child A or B cirrhosis.
Click to expand...


Yeppers. It seems a perfect compliment to this lifestyle. So where is the unintended consequence? I can't find one but I'm appealing to your superior research skills.
 
yeahright said:
Yeppers. It seems a perfect compliment to this lifestyle. So where is the unintended consequence? I can't find one but I'm appealing to your superior research skills.
Click to expand...

SAMe, a combination of L-methionine and ATP, is a methyl-donor that enhances mood and brain function which may help depression in high doses, promotes detoxification of the liver, relieves osteoarthritis pain, reduces homocysteine, and is useful for energy and fat loss. Side effects are rare and minor. People with bipolar (manic) depression should not use SAMe unless advised by a physician. Best kept refrigerated.

I mean I'll keep looking researching it but I did see this.
 
LakeMountD said:
SAMe, a combination of L-methionine and ATP, is a methyl-donor that enhances mood and brain function which may help depression in high doses, promotes detoxification of the liver, relieves osteoarthritis pain, reduces homocysteine, and is useful for energy and fat loss. Side effects are rare and minor. People with bipolar (manic) depression should not use SAMe unless advised by a physician. Best kept refrigerated.

I mean I'll keep looking researching it but I did see this.
Click to expand...

LOL, I didn't mean that I was literally tasking you with finding info on this. This is something I use as a liver support and had always wondered why it wasn't popular among bodybuilders. It just appears to have so many benefits with nonexistent drawbacks.
 
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