Time to be a big boy.....

MFTrainz

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So, I ran a log awhile back (and currently logging natty products that were a continuation of PCT - Anabolic Effect and M-Test). In the past, I’ve ran oral Ph’s only - Bold, twice, back in the good old days of legality there, and then 1,4, Epi-andro.
I realize that’s basically like running steroids. I thought I had an aversion to giving myself shots.

Then I went down the rabbit hole of L-Carnitine, fat loss, androgen receptor benefits, potential longevity benefits, etc. And now I have no aversion to needles and enjoy my L-Carn pin with no TMAO concerns.

With leads me to this post. I’m in my 30’s, I have blood work scheduled in a few weeks to get my baseline. I am considering (and already have) beginning my first Test-E cycle, beginning low and then increasing up to 500 maximum. Unless my bloodwork comes back with sh*t test levels, I don’t plan on blasting and cruising on TRT yet.
I do plan on using a solid PCT instead, and if I added in anything it would be LGD for the last 4 or so weeks out of 12.
I have exemestane on hand. I’m purchasing nolva and clomid. I am also going to get Arimadex.
If needed, I’ve read to add HCBG, but I don’t think it would be necessary. I keep cardio support supps on hand, and will be adding in any other ancillaries as I see fit.
I would like to get bloodwork done about 8 weeks in, and then about 12-16 weeks post cycle/pct as well.

Diet and training is logged everyday without fail. I have been lifting consistently for over a decade, nagging injuries have seemed to subside quite a bit, and I have 2 kids with no current intentions of having more. But also not trying to go infertile, hence a careful PCT and a post to plan this out.

This seems like a good time to begin the plan to execute, as I only need to acquire a few PCT items and I’ll be moving to a house the wife and I just closed on, one that’s both closer to my gym and more conducive to home based training if needed, so there will be no excuses (not like I make any now, I’m just thinking of all upside) and no lack of intensity if I can’t leave the house to do what I need.

I welcome and appreciate all opinions on this. The amount of research I’ve done and still continue to do is tremendous, but real world experience from a board I trust is necessary as well.

I fully expect to go on TRT eventually, and this is something I’ve considered for awhile. But nonetheless, I’m going to do this as safely as possible. I monitor my BP regularly and again, I take support supps for all organs. For hair, I’m using minoxidil and RU58841 preventively now, started after noticing a bit of thinning. Will up the RU on cycle a bit.

There’s no jumping the gun, I’m still in a slight cut and likely will continue this for a few more weeks and then get prepped more. I just want to know opinions, and to see if there’s anything I have forgotten to mention.
I have no drastic expectations, but I feel like the stress I put my body through on oral cycles for extended periods can definitely be negated by doing something smart with the hormone that’s been around and widely used for half a century.

Let the thoughts and discussions commence.
 
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MFTrainz

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If no one has any thoughts on the above, what if I say I’m going to blast a gram of test for the first 8 weeks, throw deca in at that point, and then hop on tren. My PCT is D-Aspartic Acid. I have my NOW foods! multivitamin on hand for all my support needs. I don’t take fish oil but I do eat fish sticks so they’re pretty much the same.

I follow the training I see in whatever months issue of men’s health I see, and I get my carbs from snickers. And I still have some old clumpy Cell-Tech that really gets me recovered.

Can we get some discussion?
 
Jinsun

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What's your goal, cut, bulk, how much . How close to your genetic limit are you?

Also, do use hcg, it will help a lot. It will help keep your libido and cognition higher and it will protect your gonads. Also, have everything on hand before you start. So many times people desperately need something before they get it in the mail.

In regards to test, if you've never done it before, I would say to pick one dose, stay with it and then do bloods after some time, so you can see how much you arometise. So let's say you pick 400mg's, stay with that dose for 6 weeks and then check e2. Also, be sure you are buying from reputable UGL's that have lab tested gear.
 
MFTrainz

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What's your goal, cut, bulk, how much . How close to your genetic limit are you?

Also, do use hcg, it will help a lot. It will help keep your libido and cognition higher and it will protect your gonads. Also, have everything on hand before you start. So many times people desperately need something before they get it in the mail.

In regards to test, if you've never done it before, I would say to pick one dose, stay with it and then do bloods after some time, so you can see how much you arometise. So let's say you pick 400mg's, stay with that dose for 6 weeks and then check e2. Also, be sure you are buying from reputable UGL's that have lab tested gear.
Definitely won’t start until I have the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. Got the test from a reputable source.
Someone mentioned starting the HCG while still on cycle, last 3 weeks, run it for 6 and then begin the nolva/Clomid. I’ve heard different opinions on this, any thoughts?

thanks man
 
Jinsun

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Definitely won’t start until I have the rest of the pieces of the puzzle. Got the test from a reputable source.
Someone mentioned starting the HCG while still on cycle, last 3 weeks, run it for 6 and then begin the nolva/Clomid. I’ve heard different opinions on this, any thoughts?

thanks man
Nah, take it for the whole duration of the cycle. Most of progesterone you have is made in the gonads, and once you shut them down, your progesterone and other neurosteroids start dropping rapidly. Also, your balls start shrinking and the cells that produce test, start dying and you wont get them back. Not a big problem for only one cycle but it starts adding up.

Also, when using test, pct will start app 3 to 4 weeks after last picture pin. On small dosages like 250, you will start to recover quicker, like 2 weeks after maybe. Just sayin, as this isn't common knowledge on the net, where it's mostly touted that pct starts 2 weeka after last pin, no matter the dosage.
 
Whisky

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I agree with points made by @Jinsun

re the point you make about not starting if test levels are sh1t when you get bloods in a few weeks.....I would kinda see it the other way. If you test levels have naturally declined to a point where it’s likely affecting your quality of life (I.e low test) then I would be hopping on gear knowing I would need trt sooner rather than later anyway.

if they came back high naturally then I would think twice as one cycle could (might not but it’s possible) hammer them down a lot and hasten what would otherwise be a long path to trt. It’s very possible you’ll recover back to high levels if they are high before but it’s no guarantee bro.
 

Mathb33

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Just for the record, you have bloodworks scheduled in a couple weeks to know your baseline levels but you started injecting testosterone before your bloodworks?
 
Whisky

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Just for the record, you have bloodworks scheduled in a couple weeks to know your baseline levels but you started injecting testosterone before your bloodworks?
I thought that from the first post but the subsequent post suggests not? I assume not otherwise no point in the bloods
 
MFTrainz

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Just for the record, you have bloodworks scheduled in a couple weeks to know your baseline levels but you started injecting testosterone before your bloodworks?
No sir. I have test and some additional things on hand. I pin L-Carnitine only, to get over the bioavailability being **** thing. I am getting bloodwork BEFORE starting and not beginning anything until I get results.
 
Hyde

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You sound mature and like you have your ducks in a row. You have a plan, you understand what to take, & how, & largely when. You sound like an experienced lifter that has a decent understanding of what not to do (and why those things are bad).

Not that you need the blessing of random bros on the internet, but if you were a training partner asking my opinion I would say you sound emotionally ready & have your ducks in a row for this kind of decision. It sounds a long time coming.

Do run low dose HCG throughout, for reasons already mentioned. I like 250iu twice a week, you could do e3d if you like, starting the second week of the cycle up until one week before you PCT (to give the extra estrogen it creates time to clear so as not to be suppressive when you go to begin PCT).

I also prefer Exemestane for AI since it doesn’t have the lipid impact Arimidex does, but that’s a personal choice.
 
MFTrainz

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You sound mature and like you have your ducks in a row. You have a plan, you understand what to take, & how, & largely when. You sound like an experienced lifter that has a decent understanding of what not to do (and why those things are bad).

Not that you need the blessing of random bros on the internet, but if you were a training partner asking my opinion I would say you sound emotionally ready & have your ducks in a row for this kind of decision. It sounds a long time coming.

Do run low dose HCG throughout, for reasons already mentioned. I like 250iu twice a week, you could do e3d if you like, starting the second week of the cycle up until one week before you PCT (to give the extra estrogen it creates time to clear so as not to be suppressive when you go to begin PCT).

I also prefer Exemestane for AI since it doesn’t have the lipid impact Arimidex does, but that’s a personal choice.
Thank you, you are correct. It’s been thought about, I’m well aware of risks and how to be proactive about minimizing them. I mentioned I’ve run oral PH’s, so it was never an aversion to using enhancements .....I didn’t think I could comfortably give myself a shot at the time.
And I wanted to make sure, post lockdown, I got all my training and diet dialed in. I could “maintain” with minimal equipment at home but I think many of us were a bit rusty getting back to previous numbers and such.
I have exem on hand, unopened from one of those PH cycles as a “in case needed” kind of thing. Was not.
You suggest running HCG through the duration of the cycle and PCT?
 
Jinsun

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Alright adding that to the stash. I’m acquiring everything fully, in small batches, well before I start obviously. Thank you fellas
As to the dosage of hcg, it has been studie on men that are on trt dosages of test, that 250mcg eod produced the same intratesticular levels as when off cycle. This is the smallest dose I would use. I presume, however, that on higher dosages, and especially when adding different compounds to the mix, the testicular function, in regards to hcg stimulation, is bound to change. You can not equate 500mg's of test, with 50mg anavar and 20mg lgd, to trt dosages of test in regards to the effect on gonads. So if 250mcg produced such an effect with trt dosages, imo it wont produce the same effect with 500mg's of test.

If you are doing bloods before cycle, you can really fine tune this by pulling bloods for DHEA, progesterone and pregnenolone. Progesterone beeing the most important in this regard imo. Then do the same on cycle. And then adjust hcg dosage according to progesterone levels (app 80% of it is made it the balls). I've never done this, as I've never looked at hcg in this regard, but will do for the next cycle.
 
Jinsun

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Oh, and in regards to hcg dosages, you should keep in mind that hcg is hard to store and what you'll get in your hands probably will be deteriorated to some degree. So what you think is 250mcg might actually be half of that ...
 
Hyde

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Thank you, you are correct. It’s been thought about, I’m well aware of risks and how to be proactive about minimizing them. I mentioned I’ve run oral PH’s, so it was never an aversion to using enhancements .....I didn’t think I could comfortably give myself a shot at the time.
And I wanted to make sure, post lockdown, I got all my training and diet dialed in. I could “maintain” with minimal equipment at home but I think many of us were a bit rusty getting back to previous numbers and such.
I have exem on hand, unopened from one of those PH cycles as a “in case needed” kind of thing. Was not.
You suggest running HCG through the duration of the cycle and PCT?
No, not in PCT. On cycle up to one week BEFORE you start PCT.
 
MFTrainz

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Thank all of you. It’s been suggested elsewhere that if I planned to run LGD at lower dosages, that running 25mg of Anavar instead would be ideal, reaping much of the benefit but being slightly less harsh.
Any opinions?
I need to look up exactly what I read but it’s along the lines of Anavar utilizing a different mechanism in the body, where LGD for all intents and purposes would be utilized on a physiological level much in the same way testosterone is?

That is not worded correctly, and I’ll try to get a better understanding in order to give a better explanation, but I’m thinking one of you may have a better grasp on the pharmacokinetics here?
 
Hyde

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I have used Var a couple times. I have used LGD4033 thrice now, including currently. Currently injecting ~150-160mg of LGD4033 per week (5-6 shots of 26-32.5mg/shot), on top of the rest of my cycle, as an experiment the last 3 weeks or so.

It’s fine, adding a bit of size and strength, but 40mg Var over even this relatively huge dose of LGD4033, hands down no question.

Oxandrolone is the superior compound, unequivocally. The safety profile is tremendous and it has been used in humans for half a century, including androgen-sensitive populations like women, at dosages like 20mg, and the primary side effect is HDL suppression (which will certainly happen at any bodybuilding dose of LGD). LGD4033 is barely studied by comparison at doses topping out at 1mg. I am using 30x the clinical dosage of that, for results probably on par with 1x clinical dose of Var.

If you can get Var, it’s one of the finest & relatively safest AAS there is (comparable to other orals).
 
MFTrainz

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I have used Var a couple times. I have used LGD4033 thrice now, including currently. Currently injecting ~150-160mg of LGD4033 per week (5-6 shots of 26-32.5mg/shot), on top of the rest of my cycle, as an experiment the last 3 weeks or so.

It’s fine, adding a bit of size and strength, but 40mg Var over even this relatively huge dose of LGD4033, hands down no question.

Oxandrolone is the superior compound, unequivocally. The safety profile is tremendous and it has been used in humans for half a century, including androgen-sensitive populations like women, at dosages like 20mg, and the primary side effect is HDL suppression (which will certainly happen at any bodybuilding dose of LGD). LGD4033 is barely studied by comparison at doses topping out at 1mg. I am using 30x the clinical dosage of that, for results probably on par with 1x clinical dose of Var.

If you can get Var, it’s one of the finest & relatively safest AAS there is (comparable to other orals).
Putting the order in with the other PCT necessities. Thank you very much. I thought so after the last couple days of reading but confirmation from someone more experienced is always great
 
Renew1

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I have used Var a couple times. I have used LGD4033 thrice now, including currently. Currently injecting ~150-160mg of LGD4033 per week (5-6 shots of 26-32.5mg/shot), on top of the rest of my cycle, as an experiment the last 3 weeks or so.

It’s fine, adding a bit of size and strength, but 40mg Var over even this relatively huge dose of LGD4033, hands down no question.

Oxandrolone is the superior compound, unequivocally. The safety profile is tremendous and it has been used in humans for half a century, including androgen-sensitive populations like women, at dosages like 20mg, and the primary side effect is HDL suppression (which will certainly happen at any bodybuilding dose of LGD). LGD4033 is barely studied by comparison at doses topping out at 1mg. I am using 30x the clinical dosage of that, for results probably on par with 1x clinical dose of Var.

If you can get Var, it’s one of the finest & relatively safest AAS there is (comparable to other orals).
One of my favorites.
 
Jinsun

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Var is great. Just be aware of pumps at higher dosages > 40mg. Makes it hard to do endurance based sports. Like most other dht orals, nothing special.
 

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