Time frame to reduce SHBG & feel normal again?

[fweed]

I meant to type experiment, it auto corrected.

I meant that perhaps knowing that the b12 having such a big effect on you, might lead to a deeper cause which could perhaps be repaired. Problems absorbing b12 or making use of it, I am guessing as I don't know much about it.

 

[UCSMiami]

Well, I did mention to him the pregnenolene if taken late keeps me up but that dates to 2012. I am wired when do cardio late at night. I did find sleeping difficult after intense heavy workouts at night. So I train early a.m. and sometimes early evening to end by 7pm.

I have my thoughts about sleeping patterns but they are my own.

 

[UCSMiami]

Annual physical blood draw results:

Total T 842.8 scale 348-1197
Free T 7.3 scale 7.2-24.0
IGF-1 196 scale 61-200
SHBG 96.6 scale 19.3-76.4
DHT 45 adult ref range 30-85
Preg 161 adult <151
Estradiol 26.6 scale 8.0- 35.0
DHEA 228.8 scale 71.6-375.4
LH 7.8 scale 1.7-8.6
AST 34 scale 0-40
ALT 29 scale 0-44

and my triglycerides are 38.(0-149) I know big deal but I eat loads of egg yolks and no ill effects. Just FYI

A bit bummed out at the lowered Free T and increase SHBG but I feel fine. Lift strong. Exercise hard. Plenty of libido, energy, mental focus, ambition. Do not know why that is there. Dr. says do not worry if you are fine. It was a full panel with 6 pp. of results. All healthy.

Well, I posted elsewhere the past few months have been doing intense volume, M-F 6pm to 8pm-spinning and weights, workouts. Still sleep well. Stopped tracking food and go by the eat when hungry approach.

 

[The Matrix]

Low triglycerides are a sign of fatty liver due to phosphatdytial choline deficiency and also zinc. Commonly associated with PEMT, COMT and MTHFD1 gene expression as well as low estrogen. If you feel good need to aware of running on catecholamines vs cortisol. Just do not want it to sneak up on you as I have seen it happen many times...

 

[UCSMiami]

I have rather low BF%. Attribute low trig to that and diet. Do not have any symptoms of the deficiency referred to. Can't I just be happy?

 

[The Matrix]

I am glad you are happy and wish you the best
The point I was making is this is what i have seen in clinical experience as well as what research has supported.
You are looking for the hear and now, I am looking for 5-10 years down the road...

 

[UCSMiami]

Understood. I am within scale on the trig. Just low end.

I look at what causes fatty liver and none apply to me.

 

[kelso312]

You said you are naturally lean. Did you check Thyroid levels? Elevated TSH or T3 levels increase SHBG.

 

[UCSMiami]

You said you are naturally lean. Did you check Thyroid levels? Elevated TSH or T3 levels increase SHBG.

In some of the earlier test yes to T3 and I believe TSH as well. In normal range. No recent tests.

 

[kelso312]

Hmmm....

Vitamin D levels...?

 

[UCSMiami]

That was low back in 2012 have been within range since beginning supplementation. In my recent test my SHBG was elevated and out of range. Every other item was within range for gender, age.

I recall that powder the Dr. gave me back in 2012. Had milk thistle and some other ingredients. Will try that again and see how it goes. Next physical blood draw is December 2017.

 

[MetalMX]

Just looking at your latest labs your Free T looks low and your SHBG high. It also looks like that's been the pattern in your previous bloodwork. Maybe some underlying issue which needs to be addressed. I too have this my total testosterone was actually over the range by some naturally and my free T on the low end of normal and SHBG way over range.

The next step could be looking at all the metabolites of your androgens and estrogens vs just E2 and Total and Free T in blood work this could give you a better picture of what is going on. Also training 7 days a week will typically lower T levels in this case it could be lowering your Free T and increasing your SHBG, i don't see a need in training more than 5 days a week imo. I could get an hour of cardio in and complete a body part in one workout in 2 hours and do that 4-5 times a week without issue.

https://dutchtest.com/

 

[UCSMiami]

Just looking at your latest labs your Free T looks low and your SHBG high. It also looks like that's been the pattern in your previous bloodwork. Maybe some underlying issue which needs to be addressed. I too have this my total testosterone was actually over the range by some naturally and my free T on the low end of normal and SHBG way over range.

The next step could be looking at all the metabolites of your androgens and estrogens vs just E2 and Total and Free T in blood work this could give you a better picture of what is going on. Also training 7 days a week will typically lower T levels in this case it could be lowering your Free T and increasing your SHBG, i don't see a need in training more than 5 days a week imo. I could get an hour of cardio in and complete a body part in one workout in 2 hours and do that 4-5 times a week without issue.

https://dutchtest.com/

I do M-T-Tr 30min weights + 45min spinnng of which 30min is extreme spinning. W-F 1 hr weights. Sat/Sun 1hr cardio boot camp in the park.

For example today it is OHP, BP, incline press, decline press, dips, pullovers, flys, + DLs. Fri it is BB equivalent rows, pulldowns + squats. Only long HD workouts twice per week.

the short MTTR stuff is just the core compound movements.

It was very taxing at first. After six months I am accustomed to it.

How do I check metabolites and androgens? My Dr. is receptive to patient input. Well at least my input regarding self.

I am the boot camp organizer and now have a following so cannot let the team down. M-F is due to GF going every night and you know, have to watch the store. Besides it is destressing.

 

[The Matrix]

Shbg increase from meds thyroid estrogen and gi or liver inflammation

Well said metalMX
Must have a good teacher :laugh:

 

[UCSMiami]

Next installment of my blood test results.

Collected 12/05/2017


Total-T 749 scale 250-1100
Free T 65.9 scale 35-155
SHBG 72 scale 10-50
DHT 36 scale 16-79
IGF-1 228 scale 50-317
IGF-3 4.6 scale 3.4-6.9
AST 22 scale 10-35
ALT 18 scale 9-46
DHEA 135 scale 38-313
LH 3.5 scale 1.5-9.3

No estradiol was checked from what I can see. Feel great. Have no reason to complain regarding anything.
I find I am very sensitive to sleep duration. That is I need eight hours whereas before I would get by with five or six. Of course, I train every day and sometimes twice. Maybe that is it. I also have doubled my coffee consumption since working from a home office in July 2017. I imagine the habit is battering my adrenals.

T levels may not be as high as they could. Have decent definition and much strength. Do not care.

Oh and PSA is 0.6 on scale of < or = 4.0

 

[The Matrix]

If you are on TRT then I would not worry about SHBG as much
I still think there still is a toxicity component because when I run TOX panels in people from Miami, broward county, LA, Houston, and several other cities, they are loaded in petroleum/jet resins other aldehydes based toxin, DDT, and pesiticides along with higher SHBGs
I suspect there is SHBG gene being expressed.
I will figure it out. have a pilot study going with about 10 males and 10 females who all have elevated SHBG.
Some women are up in the 190's and males are over 60 SHBG

 

[UCSMiami]

If you are on TRT then I would not worry about SHBG as much
I still think there still is a toxicity component because when I run TOX panels in people from Miami, broward county, LA, Houston, and several other cities, they are loaded in petroleum/jet resins other aldehydes based toxin, DDT, and pesiticides along with higher SHBGs
I suspect there is SHBG gene being expressed.
I will figure it out. have a pilot study going with about 10 males and 10 females who all have elevated SHBG.
Some women are up in the 190's and males are over 60 SHBG

no TRT ever
I worked next to a metal smelter for a few years which was next to an auto recycling yard and coincided with the time of my apparent downturn in 2011/2012.

 

[The Matrix]

Toxins are stored in the fat tissue which does not suprise me of your shbg. One can anticipate cellular membrane permeability issues when seeing high shbg due to potential liver inflammation.
Shbg and free testosterone do not match up..

 

[UCSMiami]

I should do something to clean out the liver?

I consume milk thistle daily for about two months now. How about lipoic acid, dandelion? Orinthine?

 

[ELROCK]

Next installment of my blood test results.

Collected 12/05/2017


Total-T 749 scale 250-1100
Free T 65.9 scale 35-155
SHBG 72 scale 10-50
DHT 36 scale 16-79
IGF-1 228 scale 50-317
IGF-3 4.6 scale 3.4-6.9
AST 22 scale 10-35
ALT 18 scale 9-46
DHEA 135 scale 38-313
LH 3.5 scale 1.5-9.3

No estradiol was checked from what I can see. Feel great. Have no reason to complain regarding anything.
I find I am very sensitive to sleep duration. That is I need eight hours whereas before I would get by with five or six. Of course, I train every day and sometimes twice. Maybe that is it. I also have doubled my coffee consumption since working from a home office in July 2017. I imagine the habit is battering my adrenals.

T levels may not be as high as they could. Have decent definition and much strength. Do not care.

Oh and PSA is 0.6 on scale of < or = 4.0

Damn brother these are very solid numbers. Keep up the good work.

 

[ELROCK]

I should do something to clean out the liver?

I consume milk thistle daily for about two months now. How about lipoic acid, dandelion? Orinthine?

I believe NAC is more helpful for the liver then any of these you listed.

 

[The Matrix]

Actually phosphatdytial choline via IV is one of the most powerful along with NAD IV followed by 1-3 gram glutathione push once or twice a week..

 

[UCSMiami]

Damn brother these are very solid numbers. Keep up the good work.

Thx.

I see the nos. are slightly down from first thread post 2012 when I tested before lifting weights. Not a couch potato then, just a skinny runt with no muscle. However Then I felt ill and was prostrated as a dying dog vs. Now feeling absolutely wonderful.

I bought some natural products which supposedly are good for the liver. Until recently, I worked in the natural products industry for many years and hopefully met the right people for natural remedies. I have no means to do an IV. Ironically I consume 3,4,5 days out of 7 natural foods rich in two of the items above. Maybe I should up that intake to 7 days. Oh the forthcoming flatulence!

 

[HellAtlantic]

I would buy a pamphlet or guide if you made one, listing everything you consume as far as vitamins and food. You definitely seem like you practice what you preach. Great job.

 

[The Matrix]

I have several people on a regime going after gut and other issues impacting intestinal permeability issues. I have been saying this for nearly 15 years. What we have seen once the gi biome has been restored, there is often a 50% reduction in SHBGs and also decrease in estradiol. This is also starting to potential reduce needs for AI as well. With the regime I created, it tanked my e2 really low which resulted in no longer needing an AI after a decade of chasing E2. We are hoping to replicates this in both males and females.

 

[THOR 70]

Time frame to reduce SHBG &amp; feel normal again?

I have several people on a regime going after gut and other issues impacting intestinal permeability issues. What we have seen once the gi biome has been restored, there is often a 50% reduction in SHBGs and also decrease in estradiol. This is also starting reduce needs for AI as well. With this regime I tanked my e2 really low which resulted in no longer needing an AI after a decade of chasing E2. We are hoping to replicates this in both males and females.

Great thread. We need more like this. Thanks for your contributions OP and matrix and others. My labs look very similar so I’m going to really work on gut and liver health.

 

[The Matrix]

Great thread. We need more like this. Thanks for your contributions OP and matrix and others. My labs look very similar so I’m going to really work on gut and liver health.

Currently working with the director of AI at
MIT on this and few others.
It’s all about controlling pro-inflammatory cytokins. An APRN who is my wife, her research lead to controlling the mechanism that helps control this in the GI tract.

 

[UCSMiami]

no TRT ever
I worked next to a metal smelter for a few years which was next to an auto recycling yard and coincided with the time of my apparent downturn in 2011/2012.

I have to wonder about this experience above(my Dr. had a wall chart detailing how pollution affects the liver) and the contemporaneous stress from a very unhappy marriage affecting me. I am a serious person in private and the latter took me to the deepest end of a living hell.

Having a women to make love to on a regular basis is the greatest T-booster out there. Well my humble opinion after being celibate for a long, long time post-marriage downturn.

 

[The Matrix]

As I mention it comes from the factors I mentioned above. I am waiting on a case of mold removal who had elevated shbg and e2 levels. Majority of all his issues are starting to resolve along with huge changes in composition with out even working out as hard. He stopped the recommendations for 2 weeks and started to feel a backslide. As I am mentioning, I am closing the gap on this issue little by little. It took me over a decade of reseach and experience to finally put pieces together. Then plan to replicate it to possible publish a case study.

 

[celc5]

UCS,
ZMA ruins my sleep patterns because of aggressive vivid dreams. My dreams are normal/casual otherwise. Some members have pointed to the magnesium as the culprit. But I never followed up to research other than just to stop the zma.

 

[Beau]

I have to wonder about this experience above(my Dr. had a wall chart detailing how pollution affects the liver) and the contemporaneous stress from a very unhappy marriage affecting me. I am a serious person in private and the latter took me to the deepest end of a living hell.

Being married to the wrong person is a living hell. Getting the emotional crap kicked out of you on a regular basis is not fun. Sorry of that was your case, too.

 

[GoliathOnline]

Time frame to reduce SHBG &amp; feel normal again?

This thread is a fantastic documentation of how working with a doctor, conducting individual research, and staying true to one’s own values and constraints can help fix whatever ails you. I just posted a thread of my own but I’m much younger and my issues appear to be more severe in the low test department as well as high end SHBG. If anyone could take a glance, it’d be much appreciated as I’m really lost and could use any help possible. That said, it looks like natural supplementation, solid sleep, and a dedicated workout spread do help optimize levels as much as possible.

Regarding sleep: have you tried melatonin and, if so, do you feel like it leaves you too groggy the next AM? I know many people who swear by it, but I also read that it can form a dependence and mess with the REM cycles intra sleep.

 

[HellAtlantic]

I don’t like melatonin. For some extreme weird reason if I don’t happen to fall asleep right away I wind up staying alert for a long time. Didn’t think that was possible but it happens all the time.

 

[The Matrix]

Just had a guy shbg 157 repeat analysis with in 4 weeks down to 19.5
Shbg rises in systemic inflammation from liver or Gi tract. Been saying it for over a decade, but people failed to listen
Binded mold, upped calories reduce systemic inflammation added Rad 140 5 Mg
There is no protocol as every one is different

 

[The Matrix]

Second confirmed drop in shbg from 60 to 25 after mold removal 3 months...

 

[HellAtlantic]

Mold where? In the house? Internally? What’s the best way to reduce inflammation? You have great info, one of the most knowledgeable on this forum.

 

[The Matrix]

Gym where he worked as a personal trainer
I have another case sueing the place were theu worked as they found records of the aerobic room flooded. The carpets were never replaced. When they pulled up mats there was black mold
Visually seen. Due to sensitivity, they have been having health issues have been to multiple doctors labeled a “nut job” and almost died on several occasions. Mold is nothing to screw with. It effected my health for over a decade until I was able to finally piece the puzzle together. I have been saying it all along look for
Underlying reasons of why hormone are off. I have few cases including my own where blood was spot on, but tissue was aromatizng testosterone at 3 times the normal rate even with e2 with lab Corp sensitive at 15 !! I just shared my findings with a top research based hormone expert, it caught her attention and we are further pursuing.

Identify is first things and the source.
Find out what pathway and gene expression have been impacted
Bind and get it out of there
Often trapped in tissues, may need to be bleed out by restoration of cell membranes permeability through phospholipids

If you are being mislead by all the BS that higher SHBGs are just normal you better be thinking again. They are not..

 

[UCSMiami]

Received annual physical blood draw results.

This was analyzed by Labcorp on 12/12/2018

Test (free +total) 992 ng/dl on a scale of 264-916
Free test 12.7 pg/ml on a scale of 7.2-24.0
IGF-1 195 ng/ml on a scale of 61-200
SHBG 105 nmol/l on a scale of 19-76
Estradiol 20.5 pg/ml on a scale of 8-35
DHT 54 adult ref range 30-85

Total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol are just over the adult range. Triglycerides are very low.
Dr. said to cut my 12 eggs per seven day intake back.

Liver values a big higher than usual. in the mid40s range vs. in the low 20s. I was lifting the week before the blood draw so correlate that action to the values.

Otherwise excellent health.

Feel great. Very ripped. Excellent cardio. My HR limit is about 188bpm which is not shabby for a 54 year old. Resting HR is about 53bpm
libido strong. Pass for 40 year old.

No stims prior to the blood draw. I did do the seven day abstinence procedure.

I attribute the increase in T to adding 2x weekly heavy squats and deadlifts this year to my workout. Sort of answered my question in another post regarding how much squats increase Test.

Oh yeah, I am natural in no HRT, TRT, stims(other than coffee), ever.

 

[HellAtlantic]

What does your research show about squats increasing test? Interesting. I’ve always read about it but wasn’t sure if there was proof in the pudding.

 

[UCSMiami]

What does your research show about squats increasing test? Interesting. I’ve always read about it but wasn’t sure if there was proof in the pudding.

I looked into that topic via Internet search when starting here in 2012 and periodically revisit the topic to include earlier this year when I posted yet again a "how much %" question. There are few reputable links out there regarding the increase, only not a specific expected percentage.

 

[HellAtlantic]

Hmmm I’ll def have to get a little more serious about squats then. My knees are probably the weakest parts of my body so I doubt I’ll be able to squat heavy.

 

[UCSMiami]

Hmmm I’ll def have to get a little more serious about squats then. My knees are probably the weakest parts of my body so I doubt I’ll be able to squat heavy.

You know I find if one goes down to below parallel there is no stress on the knees. It is all on the glutes, quads, hamstrings and of course the back,chest, abdominal area and shoulders from holding up the bar.

 

[The Matrix]

Received annual physical blood draw results.

This was analyzed by Labcorp on 12/12/2018

Test (free +total) 992 ng/dl on a scale of 264-916
Free test 12.7 pg/ml on a scale of 7.2-24.0
IGF-1 195 ng/ml on a scale of 61-200
SHBG 105 nmol/l on a scale of 19-76
Estradiol 20.5 pg/ml on a scale of 8-35
DHT 54 adult ref range 30-85

Total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol are just over the adult range. Triglycerides are very low.
Dr. said to cut my 12 eggs per seven day intake back.

Liver values a big higher than usual. in the mid40s range vs. in the low 20s. I was lifting the week before the blood draw so correlate that action to the values.

Otherwise excellent health.

Feel great. Very ripped. Excellent cardio. My HR limit is about 188bpm which is not shabby for a 54 year old. Resting HR is about 53bpm
libido strong. Pass for 40 year old.

No stims prior to the blood draw. I did do the seven day abstinence procedure.

I attribute the increase in T to adding 2x weekly heavy squats and deadlifts this year to my workout. Sort of answered my question in another post regarding how much squats increase Test.

Oh yeah, I am natural in no HRT, TRT, stims(other than coffee), ever.

Low triglycerides often occur due to low phosphatdytial choline, zinc deficiency, fat malabsorption, low carb intake. These are all shown in clinical studies in pubmed

 

[UCSMiami]

Low triglycerides often occur due to low phosphatdytial choline, zinc deficiency, fat malabsorption, low carb intake. These are all shown in clinical studies in pubmed

I am or better said was a low carber. Have now changed as oatmeal recently replaced eggs for breakfast. I do supplement zinc every day. I doubt choline as I was consuming large amount of eggs and free range ones at that.

I am concerned about the SHBG. I do not drink and avoid unhealthy foods except for the occasional chocolate chip. I suppose it will be the death of me one day. My prostate is tiny enough that it will not be an issue until about 25-30 years from now.

 

[GrizzleB]

Wow your test levels are awesome at your age, must feel great !

 

[UCSMiami]

Wow your test levels are awesome at your age, must feel great !

I think Free T and DHT and IGF-1 are the critical values. I am respectively middling for the two former and upper end for latter. I have high SHBG which steals my T


I feel great otherwise.

 

[The Matrix]

You can still be low choline despite eating ton of eggs due to improper bile flow and bile acid recycling. I see this all the time in cases. Would not be surprise if you are FUT2 gene expression hetero or homozygous

I am or better said was a low carber. Have now changed as oatmeal recently replaced eggs for breakfast. I do supplement zinc every day. I doubt choline as I was consuming large amount of eggs and free range ones at that.

I am concerned about the SHBG. I do not drink and avoid unhealthy foods except for the occasional chocolate chip. I suppose it will be the death of me one day. My prostate is tiny enough that it will not be an issue until about 25-30 years from now.

 

[UCSMiami]

That time of year again. Blood draw on 12/4 performed by Quest

Total T 827 scale of 250-1100 ng/dl
Free T 72.8 scale of 35-155 pg/ml
SHBG 81 scale of 10-50 nmol/L
Estradiol 25 scale of < OR = 29 pg/ml
AST 31 scale of 10-34 U/L
ALT 30 scale of 9-46 U/L
DHT 28 scale of 16-79 ng/dl

No IGF-1 tested. Not enough blood for everything from 2018. too bad. have to wait until next year.

Picture of health according to the Dr.

Feel wonderful. Aced the army combat fitness test.
Stronger as in barbell squat and dead lift increased since last year.
Plenty of energy and brain working quite well.
RHR about 55bpm and max heart rate in workout is 186bpm

 

[manifesto]

Are you on TRT? I can't remember

 

[UCSMiami]

no