I have 3 bottles of Vector in hand and haven't used. Just by eating I have gained 11lbs in 2 months and still going on. So, my question is (since I am always a skeptic); why do you need Vector to put on weight? What is the difference if you take Vector?
Lean mass to start with. Why don't you take your three bottles while making no other changes and tell us?
How would you know? even a seasoned lifter wouldn't be able to tell unless you have measured it before and after. Nobody here who used Vector has done a dexa scan to know for sure. So, I ask again, what is the benefit.
And I say again lean gains and and a whole slew of other benefits.
If you cannot quantify the “lean gains” you made with the supplement, you have nothing to argue about.
From what ive read, it increases appetite. Also, from what ive read, itll keep the gains lean. Lets be honest, putting on weight isnt that hard- just keep eating- but it wont be the weight we want.
You are quickly becoming one of the worst regulars in this section. Guy asked a pretty straight forward question and you give him a half ass answer and push it back on him and call him a troll. I dont understand your attitude with people on this board, no one is forcing you to post on here. We are all here to learn for each other and we should be able to do that in a respectful manner.
I gave him a straight forward answer ..the guy wants clinical evidence. I dont give a **** what u think.
Your fantastic attitude continues on, I really hope you are not this type of person IRL. I believe you said you have been using supplemtns for 30+ years or some crap, hard to believe you could be that old
I don’t know of many paying out of pocket for a dexa anyway. Honestly anyone using a Natural Anabolic and confirming results via dexa would be wasting a lot of money.
bro he asked for a dexa scan - I did not do one. What is unreasonable about me saying 'I got lean gains'? Did you even read the thread?
Did you read the thread? I didn’t ask for a dexa scan. All claim to have gained a lot from this and no substantial proof to back it up except for the weight gain, which is obvious because most of them were bulking. Nobody knows how much lean mass they have gained. DJbombsquad has a run with this keeping everything same (diet, training and supplementation) and except for slight strength gain, nothing.
Can’t you say or ask that with anything even PHs?
For back up...you asked for a dexa scan. Read your own thread. I got lean gains as well as everything the supplement says it does...these are the benefits. Hundreds others report the same benefits. Take what you want and leave the rest and move on. Or get some balls and take the Vector you have on hand and let us know your results. We dont require you get a dexa scan.
My man.. we really don’t have to ask that question because it converts into an active anabolic androgenic hormone in our body. Isn’t that safe to say it works.
really need many, many studies from different people, all showing work - like baking soda!
Spot On!my opinion with "user feedback" is person first off "true believer" - like people who blow things up, lol. they have "faith" in weird one-off things in product ("this is the one, finally!), that not every other company also selling as well - why- it work or not? all other companies not also want jacked customers money, lol. other companies HUGE! like optimum nutrition for example - supp wing of food conglomerate. they not able to find ingredient that small mom and pop company find? (all can access pubmed and call china/india, and optimum et al probably have actual phd's and a lab!).
then true believer spend own money - so not want to admit spent money for nothing - so of course massive gains. also want to post on how knowledgeable they are - they know how to "do it right" - so more gains happen.
then maybe they sloppy for a while, but because faith and money spent, now time to track every calorie, have perfect macro, get in gym/cardio every day, etc... oh wow - it work!!!!
of course there is then placebo possibility - but that go back to faith/believe above i guess. look up each ingredient and look at provided references - see where human athlete ate it and had enough gains to justify spending, over placebo group - then maybe try it worth trying, but even then, we all taking bio-grow?
but this how companies stay in business (forget that one, we found new one! this it this time!) every year. take a few years for lifters to gain enough knowledge to say "nah, it's just like its always been - sleep eat and train heavy" - by then, new group come along!
I can’t argue that. Good point.
This is how I have always natty supps.. and that’s a great way to see if they do anything. What gets to me is, people start bulking and eat 700-1000 cals more and claim supp did a great work. There is no way a seasoned nutural lifter gains even gains 5lbs of just lean muscle unless you’re some genetic freak..
Edit: I've just looked at your other posts and have adjusted my inquiry.
In all fairness, many of the industry behemoths don’t always care much about optimizing effects relative to optimizing profit and marketing potential. How many big companies had/have arginine in their PWOs long after it became well-known that citrulline is far superior? Or test-boosters that still gave DAA, or products using 200mg choline bitartrate. Of course, as the supplement-using population is becoming more educated, the companies are moving towards more sensibly dosed and formulated products, but the big companies don’t always initiate this change, but merely adapt to it.my opinion with "user feedback" is person first off "true believer" - like people who blow things up, lol. they have "faith" in weird one-off things in product ("this is the one, finally!), that not every other company also selling as well - why- it work or not? all other companies not also want jacked customers money, lol. other companies HUGE! like optimum nutrition for example - supp wing of food conglomerate. they not able to find ingredient that small mom and pop company find? (all can access pubmed and call china/india, and optimum et al probably have actual phd's and a lab!).
then true believer spend own money - so not want to admit spent money for nothing - so of course massive gains. also want to post on how knowledgeable they are - they know how to "do it right" - so more gains happen.
then maybe they sloppy for a while, but because faith and money spent, now time to track every calorie, have perfect macro, get in gym/cardio every day, etc... oh wow - it work!!!!
of course there is then placebo possibility - but that go back to faith/believe above i guess. look up each ingredient and look at provided references - see where human athlete ate it and had enough gains to justify spending, over placebo group - then maybe try it worth trying, but even then, we all taking bio-grow?
but this how companies stay in business (forget that one, we found new one! this it this time!) every year. take a few years for lifters to gain enough knowledge to say "nah, it's just like its always been - sleep eat and train heavy" - by then, new group come along!
I'm not sure you are referring to me here but I'll chime in anyways. I have been lifting since I was 16 and am now 28, so I am in no way a newbie outside of a couple year break when I was lazy in college. I usually stay away from bulks because I don't like the bloated/full feeling constantly while being in a surplus but I wanted to pack on some additional muscle and I know that is the only way to do it. I've been supplementing Vector the entire time for the past 7 weeks and have remained consistent with my diet during this time.
jtmass responded earlier in this thread that his life is too crazy to handle taking 3 caps twice daily. However..he seems to have lots of time to be a skeptic of the product. Moronic behavior.
How can you follow through with diet and training but not with taking 3 caps twice a day???? That makes no sense to me. Taking the pills is the easy part, diet and training are the hard part IMO.
Well this would happen even with drugs. If one takes drugs and does not eat more the results are poor as well. If you have been at this long enough it really is not that hard to tell when something is working. For instance I never needed a dexa scan to tell me M1T and SD worked. I AM NOT SAYING VECTOR IS THE SAME AS THESE. So for an experienced guy/gal it really is not hard to tell what works and what does not. After 25 odd years of training and supplementing after a month or so I can tell when something actually works vs regular diet and training only results.
Taking pills is never part of my usual regime. So, I forget with the schedule I have. It took me 3 months to finish 2 bottles of Or1gin because I forget to take them everyday. Eating and training is part of my daily life. Pills are not.
If you think ON and others put much "research" into their products I have a bridge to sell you. They slap chit together to hit a price point, run it past the lawyers and on to marketing it goes. The best and most cutting edge stuff has almost always come from the smaller companies. Small guys have to come up with inovation as they are not going to break into the market with whey and creatine. Look as PES, at the beginning they had stuff almost no one else did and built themselves from there.my opinion with "user feedback" is person first off "true believer" - like people who blow things up, lol. they have "faith" in weird one-off things in product ("this is the one, finally!), that not every other company also selling as well - why- it work or not? all other companies not also want jacked customers money, lol. other companies HUGE! like optimum nutrition for example - supp wing of food conglomerate. they not able to find ingredient that small mom and pop company find? (all can access pubmed and call china/india, and optimum et al probably have actual phd's and a lab!).
then true believer spend own money - so not want to admit spent money for nothing - so of course massive gains. also want to post on how knowledgeable they are - they know how to "do it right" - so more gains happen.
then maybe they sloppy for a while, but because faith and money spent, now time to track every calorie, have perfect macro, get in gym/cardio every day, etc... oh wow - it work!!!!
of course there is then placebo possibility - but that go back to faith/believe above i guess. look up each ingredient and look at provided references - see where human athlete ate it and had enough gains to justify spending, over placebo group - then maybe try it worth trying, but even then, we all taking bio-grow?
but this how companies stay in business (forget that one, we found new one! this it this time!) every year. take a few years for lifters to gain enough knowledge to say "nah, it's just like its always been - sleep eat and train heavy" - by then, new group come along!
I am about to test an unreleased new TD product and I agree with you 100% on this and that is why I waited 4 weeks into my keto diet to start the product. After almost a month I am down about 15lbs. Of course if I took the supp at the start this would totally skew results. This is harder to do with a bulking/ muscle builder though as even hormones require more food to work.
Do you carry food in a cooler ever? If so you could keep the bottle with your food. It is harder to forget if you see it at meal time. I used to tell customers to tape the bottle to their toothpaste, really hard to forget then lol. Just some ideas.
Nah.. I don’t.. I work from home because I have a 2yr old son to take care since all by myself since my wife is out of country for a year. Managing home and work itself is challenging.. but, I scrape through my meals and training somehow. Something out of my usual day is always forgotten.. tried keeping reminders, sticky notes. But, with this schedule, it’s really easy to forget.
What are you doing on a supplement forum lmao?
Learning from imbeciles like you how not to take a supplement and how not to be a complete prick. Good enough reason? I am guessing you look like sh1t because you depend on those pills more than your diet and training.
I really do believe that the longer you have trained/dieted/supplemented plays a role in your(your in general not targeting anyone here) ability to discern crap supps from quality supps. Once you have used many, many things that really did nothing you do take notice when something really works.
I recon he left when the thread became about being able to take pills or not.
I agree to an extent but I've been around long enough to see the mindless shilling where users report AAS-like gains for even the simplest things. And even ones that do not tout amazing gains somehow have such a huge noticeable effect. And then the best part is when the same stuff is proven to be bunk and we circle jerk to the next holy grail with all the same people and all the same claims. The only real difference is the non-regulars who read a few forum posts and see how creatine shut down someone's kidney and how DAA increases test 300%.
if something actually work - it would be sold, crazy not to. big company can get way better price from china/india, then little guy based on quantity. fact is (or at least mine opinion), unpopular with segments of users, is most stuff doesn't work. but sound flashy with "unheard of" ingredient - like green tomato, lol - so "enthusiest" buy it, then next year or so, it gone, but new thing come up. glanbia come up with "leucine peptide" that pes use in protein. then we have many company like 'compound solutions' - who you must say do research - where is all seaweed and russian wonder herbs from them? (they do have some likewise weird things like n.o. booster from green tea, that was researched using grape seeds ((why not they use grape seed then?)) that made rings of dissected rat hearts more "pumped" - but not compared to...grape seed extract, nitrates from vegetable, or citrulline/malate - in people that ate it - perfect example imo). but there is also some truth in what you say to, im sure, nothing is 100 absolute!
This assumes ON cares if their stuff actually works. ON's line is full of products so poorly formulated that it blows my mind they even release it. ON is as big as they are because back in the late 90's Designer Whey was over $30.00 for a 2lb container and ON had the budget 5lb jug for about $30.00. ON has never been cutting edge, although they were one of the first to release Peak ATP, they make ho hum products for a reasonable price that the average consumer feel comfortable with.
Even when I was cycling I still used supplements that I liked. They may not be anywhere close in results but still useful. It's akin to putting nitrous on your car, most other improvments pale in comparison to the difference they make but even with nitrous you still want to make sure you have the right tire pressure and a high quality oil and fuel. For some $50 a month for anything short of steroids is a rip off. For others a mild boost for $50.00 is worth it. I do not eat out, drink at all, buy clothes(I spend less than 100 a year on clothing) don't have cable, have a cheap cell that lasts for years, don't go to movies and the million other ways people blow through cash. This is my hobbie and I enjoy trying stuff and if it's a bust I don't act like it's the end of the world(not saying you do but some act like the universe conspired against them when they don't see 10lbs muscle in a month lol.)
