Unanswered Thoughts on methods of cruising

[SDPonce63]

Hello everyone, my last cycle I did a standard 16 week test e cycle with deca and some orals and HCG @ 500IU weekly and then did a 5 week put with Nolvadex and Clomid. However, I lost much of my gains after the pct even with my caloric intake at 4350.

My next cycle I plan to do the same thing with a slight variation in anabolics. I plan to dose my test c at 500mg and my deca at 500mg while cycling some orals. However, I plan to cruise a little bit afterwards at 150mg test to hold onto the gains I made.

When researching cruising methods, I found a pro that suggested doing a standard 12 or 16 week cycle and then waiting 1 week after your last test dose and then doing the following mini pct to turn the testes back on

1 thousand units of HCG every other day for 8 days the first week. Then repeat at 500 units. Not Don’t pass 16 days. All while taking Nolvadex and Clomid within these 16 days.

After this blast he suggests to administer a cruise dose.

I’ve tread numerous things that suggest to run HCG while on cycle but then when I approach the cruise then how would that go? I feel like after that long I would no longer respond to HCG.

Any input is appreciated!

 

[Honkafeller]

Sub’d For knowledge.
I am kind of thinking this way as well. Wanting to cruise on Test E for pct instead of using the normal Nova or Clomid.

 

[Abomination66]

Sub’d For knowledge.
I am kind of thinking this way as well. Wanting to cruise on Test E for pct instead of using the normal Nova or Clomid.

then its not really a pct eh ? Then u are basically doing a trt.

 

[SDPonce63]

then its not really a pct eh ? Then u are basically doing a trt.

A trt/ cruise for a few months after a blast

 

[ItalOne]

A trt/ cruise for a few months after a blast

Bad idea you’ll be cruising towards TrT for life and when you do decide to pct you will lose your gains then as well. Trust me a little more time on doesn’t lead to more sustainable gains. If anything that cruise after Deca will surly put your dick in the dirt. I wouldn’t recommend ANYONE that’s not currently on trt to run Deca.. If anything run NPP which will still take 3-4 eeks to clear, Deca will take 6-7 weeks. That’s a cruise in itself. You will be sorry unless your trying to permanently shut yourself down!

 

[Mathb33]

I don’t really like the idea here... if you’re thinking about cruising then you better be ready for trt for life. Anyways if your idea is to cruise a bit after a cycle because you couldn’t hold onto your gains last time well cruising on 200-300 test is actually simply extending your cycle... which will simply make it harder for you to bounce back after your "cruise".

 

[SDPonce63]

I don’t really like the idea here... if you’re thinking about cruising then you better be ready for trt for life. Anyways if your idea is to cruise a bit after a cycle because you couldn’t hold onto your gains last time well cruising on 200-300 test is actually simply extending your cycle... which will simply make it harder for you to bounce back after your "cruise".

I understand the risks involved. I just don’t see the purpose of cycling and going to a hormonal roller coaster and then losing 70% of the gains you made. It just feels like a waste of time. I’ve seen multiple videos by a named Dr. Rand who says in all his years he’s never seen a patient NOT recover and be able to conceive children one day which would be something I would want to do. Here’s the link scroll to 2:10 to see his thoughts:

 

[Mathb33]

You don’t understand my point though. You’re doing this to avoid the roller coster hormonal thing of PCT. you’ll still be completly shut down during your cruise so you are still going to need to pct just as much as you would after your original cycle. You’re still going to be in an hormonal roller coster and you will still encounter the same issues. People go on cruises or high dose trt because they don’t want to lose muscle. We perfectly know the day we stop cruising we’ll lose muscle. It just don’t make sense dude

 

[suavmcgauv]

I get the idea of letting the deca clear completely before you try to pct.

The downside is being "on" for an extended period of time and the risk that will pose to your recovery.

Maybe that is not much of a risk? That would be nice.

 

[Honkafeller]

This might help explain.....

Blast And Cruise - A Comprehensive Guide To B&C [2019]

Everything you need to know about the blast and cruise method. In this article we explain what blasting and cruising is.

bluecloud.org

 

[SDPonce63]

You don’t understand my point though. You’re doing this to avoid the roller coster hormonal thing of PCT. you’ll still be completly shut down during your cruise so you are still going to need to pct just as much as you would after your original cycle. You’re still going to be in an hormonal roller coster and you will still encounter the same issues. People go on cruises or high dose trt because they don’t want to lose muscle. We perfectly know the day we stop cruising we’ll lose muscle. It just don’t make sense dude

I get that I would be putting off the pct but I mean my pain concern is losing muscle. If I can reduce the amount of times I lose muscle such as in a standard PCT and the hormonal rollercoasters that come with that then that’s a plus for me. However, I still want to be able to have kids one day in years to come.

Would it make any sense to do a blast and then a 16 day blast of HCG along with Nolvadex and Clomid to wake the testes back up and then cruise for 3 months and then do another mini 16 day pct or even a 1 month PCT and then go back on a blast or is that kinda reckless? I’m just trying to get a plan so I can know what I need for next cycle.

 

[ItalOne]

I get that I would be putting off the pct but I mean my pain concern is losing muscle. If I can reduce the amount of times I lose muscle such as in a standard PCT and the hormonal rollercoasters that come with that then that’s a plus for me. However, I still want to be able to have kids one day in years to come.

Would it make any sense to do a blast and then a 16 day blast of HCG along with Nolvadex and Clomid to wake the testes back up and then cruise for 3 months and then do another mini 16 day pct or even a 1 month PCT and then go back on a blast or is that kinda reckless? I’m just trying to get a plan so I can know what I need for next cycle.

Lol, you’ll just be wasting the serms as you will be just as shut down AGAIN FROM WEEK ONE OF THAT THREE MONTH CRUISE.
Steroids = suppression.
There’s no way around it!

 

[SDPonce63]

Lol, you’ll just be wasting the serms as you will be just as shut down AGAIN FROM WEEK ONE OF THAT THREE MONTH CRUISE.
Steroids = suppression.
There’s no way around it!

I get that anytime you insert any exogenous compound in your body it hinders your natural testosterone production. My thoughts were that little 16 day break will wake up your testes a bit so they’re not completely shut off for months on months.

 

[ItalOne]

I get that anytime you insert any exogenous compound in your body it hinders your natural testosterone production. My thoughts were that little 16 day break will wake up your testes a bit so they’re not completely shut off for months on months.

No because the esters take time to clear your body and it takes longer then 16 days. You will still be suppressed while taking the serms. You can however run HcG at anytime ON cycle never in pct. This will keep you nuts alive but your natural testosterone will still be tanked!

 

[Mathb33]

Why would your testes start to bounce back during cruise? You’re still shutting down yourself man...

 

[Mathb33]

I get that I would be putting off the pct but I mean my pain concern is losing muscle. If I can reduce the amount of times I lose muscle such as in a standard PCT and the hormonal rollercoasters that come with that then that’s a plus for me. However, I still want to be able to have kids one day in years to come.

Would it make any sense to do a blast and then a 16 day blast of HCG along with Nolvadex and Clomid to wake the testes back up and then cruise for 3 months and then do another mini 16 day pct or even a 1 month PCT and then go back on a blast or is that kinda reckless? I’m just trying to get a plan so I can know what I need for next cycle.

nah man you got it wrong. If you did a cycle and used HCG for "16 days" and then lowered your test to a cruise dose of let’s say 200mg a week... you’d still be COMPLETLY SHUT DOWN.. so whenever you decide to PCT from that cruise (that’s actually not a cruise but an extension of your whole cycle) you would still be at the same point... shut down trying to PCT and retain muscle. It makes no sense at all bro.

 

[Mathb33]

also bro people who cycle/pct have to understand something.. the first cycles it’s easier to retain muscle but once someone’s way beyond his natural limits, he’ll obviously lose gains once he pct and comes back to natural levels... it’s just normal. That’s why people go on a cruise dose and then on trt for life. Because they don’t want to lose those muscles. Gotta ask yourself if it’s worth for you.

 

[SDPonce63]

No because the esters take time to clear your body and it takes longer then 16 days. You will still be suppressed while taking the serms. You can however run HcG at anytime ON cycle never in pct. This will keep you nuts alive but your natural testosterone will still be tanked!

I gotcha, is there a certain period of time to only use Hcg for? I feel like if someone used it for 20 weeks + your body would no longer respond to it?

 

[Mathb33]

I’m really no hcg expert because I don’t use it on my trt but if I recall correctly a low to moderate dose of hcg has no potential for desensitization of receptors. High dose would be another story though.

 

[SDPonce63]

I’m really no hcg expert because I don’t use it on my trt but if I recall correctly a low to moderate dose of hcg has no potential for desensitization of receptors. High dose would be another story though.

So if I did end up cruising and wanted to do it safely with the thoughts of having kids one day, 500IU weekly would be a good start?

 

[Abomination66]

I understand the risks involved. I just don’t see the purpose of cycling and going to a hormonal roller coaster and then losing 70% of the gains you made. It just feels like a waste of time. I’ve seen multiple videos by a named Dr. Rand who says in all his years he’s never seen a patient NOT recover and be able to conceive children one day which would be something I would want to do. Here’s the link scroll to 2:10 to see his thoughts:

Well if u used deca i would say hello to trt, thats something that could shut you down for a good year maybe even more. In a study 100mcg caused complete shutdown.

 

[SDPonce63]

Well if u used deca i would say hello to trt, thats something that could shut you down for a good year maybe even more. In a study 100mcg caused complete shutdown.

Could you tag the url for that? I would like to read on it!

 

[Mathb33]

So if I did end up cruising and wanted to do it safely with the thoughts of having kids one day, 500IU weekly would be a good start?

It is a standard dose during cruise yes.. I’ve had friends use 250 though and it worked but I’d say 500 is more standard

 

[NoAddedHmones]

Realistically being on deca that long at those dosages is going to prevent HTPA restoring to normal function for a very long time, the metabolites hang around for many months post stopping the compound. Even so, a pct with a SERM for 5 weeks is way too short and if you started right after stopping the hormones then even the Test wouldn't clear till after 20 something days.

 

[SDPonce63]

Realistically being on deca that long at those dosages is going to prevent HTPA restoring to normal function for a very long time, the metabolites hang around for many months post stopping the compound. Even so, a pct with a SERM for 5 weeks is way too short and if you started right after stopping the hormones then even the Test wouldn't clear till after 20 something days.

Last cycle I had dropped the deca 2 weeks prior to dropping the test and then waited 2 weeks to start pct so when I started pct I was off deca for 4 weeks and off test for 2 weeks. Is that long enough to start a pct?

 

[Mathb33]

Last cycle I had dropped the deca 2 weeks prior to dropping the test and then waited 2 weeks to start pct so when I started pct I was off deca for 4 weeks and off test for 2 weeks. Is that long enough to start a pct?

As he said deca will still have a negative effects for months after your cycle. I wouldn’t recommend anyone to run deca unless he’s B/C or is already on trt. It’s a terrible idea imo

 

[SDPonce63]

It is a standard dose during cruise yes.. I’ve had friends use 250 though and it worked but I’d say 500 is more standard

What exactly is the benefit for guys to be on HCG while cruising? I’ve heard that it keeps your test production moving but that just doesn’t sound right since you’re still receiving exogenous testosterone which would inhibit the production of your natural testosterone

 

[Mathb33]

Balls size and sperm count/fertility.

 

[SouthPawSD]

What exactly is the benefit for guys to be on HCG while cruising? I’ve heard that it keeps your test production moving but that just doesn’t sound right since you’re still receiving exogenous testosterone which would inhibit the production of your natural testosterone

If you think of the hpta as cycle, then hCG is one step of the cycle which acts directly on the Testes. From my knowledge it would still keep test being produced to whatever level 500ius produces. So pretty much the brain won't tell the testes to produce more, but your essentially interrupting the cycle. I guess theoretically you could run high hCG and get higher test levels but there are a lot more problems youd run into.

But it is used to avoid atrophy, increase sperm production and that's all I can think of off the top of my head.

 

[suavmcgauv]

Sperm production, testicular size, sexual function energy/well being. HCG also stimulates the thyroid.

 

[ItalOne]

Last cycle I had dropped the deca 2 weeks prior to dropping the test and then waited 2 weeks to start pct so when I started pct I was off deca for 4 weeks and off test for 2 weeks. Is that long enough to start a pct?

No not enough time In either case. This is probably the reason why you lost so much of your gains. Starting and ending pct to soon.

 

[ItalOne]

Sperm production, testicular size, sexual function energy/well being. HCG also stimulates the thyroid.

The only thing HCG does while your actually on exogenous hormones is keep your nuts alive and full and it also raises estrogen quite significantly.. It does nothing for energy, or sexual function as far as performance or libido while you ON.

 

[Mathb33]

The only thing HCG does while your actually on exogenous hormones is keep your nuts alive and full and it also raises estrogen quite significantly.. It does nothing for energy, or sexual function as far as performance or libido while you ON.

Got to agree with this fucker.

 

[suavmcgauv]

The only thing HCG does while your actually on exogenous hormones is keep your nuts alive and full and it also raises estrogen quite significantly.. It does nothing for energy, or sexual function as far as performance or libido while you ON.

With the current body of evidence, NOBODY can definitively say that "The only think HCG does is"... Too blanket of a statement and not enough agreement in the scientific community.

I post a study that shows HCG raises Testosterone....how else would it raise estrogen?

According to the following study, HCG keeps natural testosterone production going as well and in turn ITT, and sperm production.

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression -
https://academic.oup.com/jcem/article/90/5/2595/2836735

"Administration of T alone has been shown to reduce sperm production in the majority of men to levels acceptable for contraception (7, 8). Gonadotropin withdrawal has also been shown to dramatically reduce ITT, which, in turn, decreases sperm production (9, 10). However, suppression of spermatogenesis is not uniform, and why some men are nonresponders is not clear. "

aka: some people get shut-down way harder than others.

So you may not need HCG or get much of a benefit, but that does not mean that your routine is gospel for the rest of us poor blokes who get, pebble testicles, an achy abdomen, and feel like utter **** when facing gonadotropin withdrawl.

 

[ItalOne]

My evidence is from using HCG for 8 years on and off and that’s what I got from it. Also people don’t get shut down harder then one another. Lol, shutdown is shutdown! People DO recover from suppression on different levels mainly because of age, cycle history, dosage of AAS and duration of cycle.

 

[ItalOne]

My evidence is from using HCG for 8 years on and off and that’s what I got from it. Also people don’t get shut down harder then one another. Lol, shutdown is shutdown! People DO recover from suppression on different levels mainly because of age, cycle history, which AAS is used and at what dosage and of course the duration of suppression.

 

[suavmcgauv]

I am sure you are right about you, but you are wrong about other people and the population in general.

I didn't author that, some men get shutdown harder than others, that is what the study shows. The study was done trying to create shut-down for the purpose creating a male contraceptive. "some men being non-responders" is another way of saying that those men were not shutdown/did not have the same reduction in Inter-Testicular- Testosterone.

"Administration of T alone has been shown to reduce sperm production in the majority of men to levels acceptable for contraception (7, 8). However, suppression of spermatogenesis is not uniform, and why some men are nonresponders is not clear. "

Therefore, shutdown is not shutdown

 

[ItalOne]

I am sure you are right about you, but you are wrong about other people and the population in general.

I didn't author that, some men get shutdown harder than others, that is what the study shows. The study was done trying to create shut-down for the purpose creating a male contraceptive. "some men being non-responders" is another way of saying that those men were not shutdown/did not have the same reduction in Inter-Testicular- Testosterone.

"Administration of T alone has been shown to reduce sperm production in the majority of men to levels acceptable for contraception (7, 8). However, suppression of spermatogenesis is not uniform, and why some men are nonresponders is not clear. "

Therefore, shutdown is not shutdown

The title says it itself in”normal men” with “normal reproductive physiology“ this study is not on men that use exogenous hormones for years on end. There is a HUGE difference.

 

[Mathb33]

I am sure you are right about you, but you are wrong about other people and the population in general.

I didn't author that, some men get shutdown harder than others, that is what the study shows. The study was done trying to create shut-down for the purpose creating a male contraceptive. "some men being non-responders" is another way of saying that those men were not shutdown/did not have the same reduction in Inter-Testicular- Testosterone.

"Administration of T alone has been shown to reduce sperm production in the majority of men to levels acceptable for contraception (7, 8). However, suppression of spermatogenesis is not uniform, and why some men are nonresponders is not clear. "

Therefore, shutdown is not shutdown

Shut down is shut down. You’re mixing things. Two man that are completly shut down could have different sperm count but that’s another thing and another variable. The two man are still equally shut down. I’m at work and can’t debate much but I’ll come back tonight

 

[Old Witch]

My basic cruise setup is really just 250mg a week and that’s enough for anyone to maintain a huge frame. Build one...not so much.

 

[SDPonce63]

How long after stopping exogenous testosterone should I start HCG/Clomid/ nolva? 20 days??? Half life of test e is 7-10 days

 

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