thicker back

Rodja said:
I've seen many a 600+lb pullers in my life and they will all have thick traps and erectors, but not as much thickness in the lats as you would think.
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I am doing alot of chins (wide and narrow) and rows (barbell rows are hard for me and i find myself doing more db rows) and my lats are visually growing from week to week along with my traps and erectors.. but the insane growth rate is due to what i said earlier bout my former neglect. I am not atall concerned about an insane max, rather im looking for an aesthetically pleasing look. My tune has changed from when i was younger. Back than a rarely worked it out and when i did i always went frikn heavy and screwd my back up. Lol not sure now wut all this had to do with your comment..
 
Sean1332 said:
Believe it or not, rack pulls or block pulls can be more difficult than off the ground. Some people have sticking points just below their knees, where the bar would be set up on the rack, so it can be just as/if not more difficult. It's an akward leverage for some people. It will heavily involve your glutes. Once you've been able I blast through that point, it'll benefit your full ROM deadlift, and you'll be able to pull more from the rack because if the decreased ROM. You may want to try them off blocks, or stacked up weights, instead of the bar resting on the rack pins. The bar will have a more natural bend and liftoff from the blocks than the rack, thus making it slightly easier.

I wouldn't expect rack pulls or deadlifts to benefit the back specifically for hypertrophy purposes in the way a type of row would. It'll help give you some thick erectors though.
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2 pasos...
Agreed and another insightful post from this guy^. And this is what I was gonna get at with rack pullers who are looking to try to get width and or thickness from it. Agree with Rodja too.
Sure you can use lots of weight with partials, especially up over the knees etc. but so can 99% of the lifters out there as the ROM is very short and is almost more a static strength builder.
Nothing at all wrong with partials and what Sean mentions especially, but moreso, to build strength in the bad pulling leverages than giving them to someone wanting to build mass or size in the back. Otherwise, the biggest BBers would have been doing them in the glossies long ago and they were not really much of a staple.
Anything from weighted chins, rows, pullovers, or more horizontal pulling with long flexion and extension in the back, is what made my back thicker and deeper and wider. Sure I got some good muscle from the deads, but the erectors and lumbars are not a super mass group anyway and personally I feel a fuller dead, even though weights used may be lighter than a partial rack pull (especially a real short ROM), will deliver more overall mass thru the entire body.
Power shrugs help to build the upper traps mass, but again, you do not need huge weight to build mass, more reps and sets in fact, as most BB'ers would attest to.
IMO, partials should be used as an adjunct and not necessarily a main movement, compared to the full compound.

That all said, if I was going to look for mass from rack pull partials, I would perhaps do them for say multi sets (3-5) of higher reps, (8-10-12+) and go for a burnish hit.
 
Do your regular deads and squats and don't be a pansy about them for adding mass to the whole body, then do a row, pull/chin-up, or another compound back movement for 5 sets 2-3 times a week as accessory. That's really all you need. Strong erectors and traps from the deads will give you more strength and stability to use to support more weight in movements like bent over rows, and get the rest of your back in shape. You need a base to build from. You also need every muscle in your back to be strong to keep your shoulders in position and your back flat, especially in the t spine. How do you keep flat and keep your shoulders neutral? With the same muscles you use to do a row.

Here's a tnation article by Matt Kroc, take it for what it is, an article. Guy does have a little experience though:

Invalid Link Removed


PaulBlack said:
2 pasos...
Agreed and another insightful post from this guy^. And this is what I was gonna get at with rack pullers who are looking to try to get width and or thickness from it. Agree with Rodja too.
Sure you can use lots of weight with partials, especially up over the knees etc. but so can 99% of the lifters out there as the ROM is very short and is almost more a static strength builder.
Nothing at all wrong with partials and what Sean mentions especially, but moreso, to build strength in the bad pulling leverages than giving them to someone wanting to build mass or size in the back. Otherwise, the biggest BBers would have been doing them in the glossies long ago and they were not really much of a staple.
Anything from weighted chins, rows, pullovers, or more horizontal pulling with long flexion and extension in the back, is what made my back thicker and deeper and wider. Sure I got some good muscle from the deads, but the erectors and lumbars are not a super mass group anyway and personally I feel a fuller dead, even though weights used may be lighter than a partial rack pull (especially a real short ROM), will deliver more overall mass thru the entire body.
Power shrugs help to build the upper traps mass, but again, you do not need huge weight to build mass, more reps and sets in fact, as most BB'ers would attest to.
IMO, partials should be used as an adjunct and not necessarily a main movement, compared to the full compound.

That all said, if I was going to look for mass from rack pull partials, I would perhaps do them for say multi sets (3-5) of higher reps, (8-10-12+) and go for a burnish hit.
Click to expand...

This is pretty much more point of view.
 
PaulBlack said:
2 pasos...


That all said, if I was going to look for mass from rack pull partials, I would perhaps do them for say multi sets (3-5) of higher reps, (8-10-12+) and go for a burnish hit.
Click to expand...

That's pretty much exactly how my partner went about it. His rack pull workouts have an insane amount of volume, I can't keep up. He will hit his top weight for 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps each, then pyramid back down. I've never counted but I think he'd probably come in around 15 sets total. I tried to do it that way a couple times but no way. He's also a decade younger than I am, 36 and 46 respectively.

He was also hitting that workout a couple times a week, whereas I do 531 so I hit the sumo deads once a week & only do rack pulls on my deload week, so only once a month.
 
Rodja said:
I've seen many a 600+lb pullers in my life and they will all have thick traps and erectors, but not as much thickness in the lats as you would think.
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I think you're exactly right about that. My pal can get 600 lb for reps, but he struggles doing chinups. I got him working on it though.
 
compudog said:
but he struggles doing chinups. I got him working on it though.
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Good full Chinups/pullups (forehead below elbows) can be tough especially for bigger heavier guys. Still, they can be a good mass builder for a break from say other rowing motions, pull dwns, etc.
Best way I learned to get volume from them is doing ladders. ie:
3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1 add #5 to your body next week and keep digging.
They can be just like any other exercise, so you can slowly add weight, even a #2 1/2 pounder a week, over a few months adds up.

Lots of ways to set the counts up too...

Week 1
1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,3 = 22 total reps

Week 2
1,2,3,4,3,2,1,2,3,4, = 25 total

and so on building volume...

Differing the grips widths too.

Search Clarence Bass chinups.
 
PaulBlack said:
Good full Chinups/pullups (forehead below elbows) can be tough especially for bigger heavier guys. Still, they can be a good mass builder for a break from say other rowing motions, pull dwns, etc.
Best way I learned to get volume from them is doing ladders. ie:
3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1 add #5 to your body next week and keep digging.
They can be just like any other exercise, so you can slowly add weight, even a #2 1/2 pounder a week, over a few months adds up.

Lots of ways to set the counts up too...

Week 1
1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,3 = 22 total reps

Week 2
1,2,3,4,3,2,1,2,3,4, = 25 total

and so on building volume...

Differing the grips widths too.

Search Clarence Bass chinups.
Click to expand...

Actually I'm bigger (heavier and taller) than he is and I can do chins just fine. Took a while though. And I actually hate them, but I still manage to squeeze out 50 a week or so.
 
compudog said:
Actually I'm bigger (heavier and taller) than he is and I can do chins just fine. Took a while though. And I actually hate them, but I still manage to squeeze out 50 a week or so.
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How big are you guys? Definitely get him doing some rows and pull-ups. I prefer rows. His pull-ups will likely increase if he progresses on rows anyways.
 
CountryLiftin said:
How big are you guys? Definitely get him doing some rows and pull-ups. I prefer rows. His pull-ups will likely increase if he progresses on rows anyways.
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I'm around 215 (fat as a house), he's closer to 200. He's getting after the rows these days too. His bench is lagging and I told him, build those lats up if you want to bench big. I think he believed me, being as I bench about 60 lb more than he does :)
 
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