TheVenom's Dienogen Log (Sponsored by Apex Alchemy)

[TheVenom]

Damn bro. Does this mean you are on trt?

Yeahhhh maybe take a couple of hours and a cold shower and re-read the comment you replied to. The answer is there lol

 

[Jinsun]

it wasnt somebody,, it was me. Lethargy can most certainly happen via dosage and it can also happen do to the compound itself. just as Hyde mentions. If you dont believe me take some 1 andro at 300 mgs per day.

I know what you're talking about; I mentioned SD at 20+ would be bad, that it would twart the sides that come from shutdown.

take some 1 andro at 300 mgs per day.

300mg's of 1 andro? That's nothing. The only lethargy that will come out of that is one due to suppression.

For me SD was (obviously) the worst. That was while one 500mg test. I felt like not training at all. Everything else was nothing like SD. Andro's especially were a total breeze in regards to toxicity sides. I definitely felt a reduction in appetite on all orals (except andro's). Anyway, what I was referencing again, not that it really matters let the op have his log back, is that the lethargy sides of a compound would twart the ones that come from shutdown. And the only oral that I have done that can do this is SD at a meagerly dose of 15 - 20mg.

 

[Jinsun]

Yeahhhh maybe take a couple of hours and a cold shower and re-read the comment you replied to. The answer is there lol

Definitely didn't think you were actually living with a 100 ng/dl test level. Just being 100%, god knows what you could be up to, ... : ) Don't need a cold shower, I'm not baked. I mentioned weed bc I didn't want to present my self as attacking anybody. It's all good, chill everybody.

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

im chillin your good. but i would wager 20 mgs of SD with 200 mgs of test wouldnt have been so tough.

 

[Jinsun]

im chillin your good. but i would wager 20 mgs of SD with 200 mgs of test wouldnt have been so tough.

I said I was on 500mg test : )

Or are you referencing to the "total androgen load" you mentioned earlier?

 

[Jinsun]

OP, what's the deal with hcg if you are on trt? There was some talk about PCT back there, which you didn't negate, so I'm confused.

Are you blasting test now or are you on a trt dose - ei.: what's your test dose atm?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

I said I was on 500mg test : )

Or are you referencing to the "total androgen load" you mentioned earlier?

yes i was trying to poke a hole in your theroy.. just like you were trying to poke holes in mine

 

[TheVenom]

OP, what's the deal with hcg if you are on trt? There was some talk about PCT back there, which you didn't negate, so I'm confused.

Are you blasting test now or are you on a trt dose - ei.: what's your test dose atm?

Before my fast I was using ugl test, or as some people glorify it "self-perscribed trt". I had every intention of using it throughout this log, but got a batch with black flecks floating around in it. They refused to replace it, so I just said tally-ho and heaved forward without it. So as of this moment, I'm on zero exo test except hcg and don't have a source anymore.

 

[ValiantThor08]

OP is on HCG now, so he has test and E2 in his body.

 

[TheVenom]

OP is on HCG now, so he has test and E2 in his body.

This thread is starting to sound like an echo

 

[ValiantThor08]

This thread is starting to sound like an echo

An echo!

 

[Jinsun]

Interesting. Sounds like a roller coaster though.

Hcg has not been proven, not to my knowledge at least, that it raises serum blood levels of T/e2 while on cycle. It raises intratesticular test (ITT) but am not sure about blood levels. Leydig cells react to androgens, if there is a lot of androgens in your system, leydig cells wont produce test, no matter how much LH or HCG there is in your system.

A good example of this is ostarine. It's typical for an ostarine cycle to have normal LH but zero test at around week 4.

Anyway, if I was you I would get some test, but keep using hcg as it has other benefits to it. You will probably feel like crap just using dienolone and hcg. YMMV though but I know I would feel pretty crappy.

 

[Hyde]

Interesting. Sounds like a roller coaster though.

Hcg has not been proven, not to my knowledge at least, that it raises serum blood levels of T/e2 while on cycle. It raises intratesticular test (ITT) but am not sure about blood levels. Leydig cells react to androgens, if there is a lot of androgens in your system, leydig cells wont produce test, no matter how much LH or HCG there is in your system.

A good example of this is ostarine. It's typical for an ostarine cycle to have normal LH but zero test at around week 4.

Anyway, if I was you I would get some test, but keep using hcg as it has other benefits to it. You will probably feel like crap just using dienolone and hcg. YMMV though but I know I would feel pretty crappy.

Well this is a lot of bs.

The leydig cells won’t produce test if there’s a lot of androgens in your system BECAUSE THE PITUITARY ISN’T RELEASING LH IN A HIGH ANDROGEN ENVIRONMENT. HCG mimics leutenizing hormone. You completely bypass the HPTA feedback system and fake the signal to the leydig cells in the testes to go ahead and produce testosterone.
One look at bloodwork before and after HCG administration will show you it can effect E2 levels. You don’t need a published study to pull bloodwork and compare numbers.

 

[Jinsun]

The leydig cells won’t produce test if there’s a lot of androgens in your system BECAUSE THE PITUITARY ISN’T RELEASING LH IN A HIGH ANDROGEN ENVIRONMENT. HCG mimics leutenizing hormone. You completely bypass the HPTA feedback system and fake the signal to the leydig cells in the testes to go ahead and produce testosterone.

Kindly, read my comment again, this time a bit more thoroughly. Also, would you mind keeping the discussion more civil?

One look at bloodwork before and after HCG administration will show you it can effect E2 levels. You don’t need a published study to pull bloodwork and compare numbers.

Saw lot's of bloods with dht orals and hcg that had TT in the gutter. There are some even on this forum, they also had serms in the cycle. Are you implying that leydig cells, if you pin hcg, will produce test, no matter what and how much compounds you stuff your face with? I am inclined to believe that at a certain dose and with certain compounds, this can be more or less pronounced, leydig cells wont respond the same to hcg stimulus.

And just to reiterate, I am not stating anything as fact, I specifically noted "not to my knowledge" so nobody would take my wording as proven fact.

 

[Jinsun]

Also, my recommendation to OP regarding not stoping exogenous test still stands. If his natural test is at 100 ng dl, hcg cant do much, especially on cycle. He'll feel like chit for the duration of the cicle without test. Probably, idk, some people handle beeing shutdown, or severly suppressed, better then others.

 

[TheVenom]

Also, my recommendation to OP regarding not stoping exogenous test still stands. If his natural test is at 100 ng dl, hcg cant do much, especially on cycle. He'll feel like chit for the duration of the cicle without test. Probably, idk, some people handle beeing shutdown, or severly suppressed, better then others.

Yeah, once this cycle is over I'm going to let my levels crash back to my baseline and travel to a youth clinic to bypass these small-town scrouges. The closest one is about 2h away, but I felt great running test even though the ugl stuff is usually underdosed AF. Ive had crap levels for so long that it became my "normal". It's not terrible for me in my eyes in its own right, but knowing what a real normal test level feels like, yeah its comparatively garbage to feel like I had.

 

[Hyde]

Kindly, read my comment again, this time a bit more thoroughly. Also, would you mind keeping the discussion more civil?



Saw lot's of bloods with dht orals and hcg that had TT in the gutter. There are some even on this forum, they also had serms in the cycle. Are you implying that leydig cells, if you pin hcg, will produce test, no matter what and how much compounds you stuff your face with? I am inclined to believe that at a certain dose and with certain compounds, this can be more or less pronounced, leydig cells wont respond the same to hcg stimulus.

And just to reiterate, I am not stating anything as fact, I specifically noted "not to my knowledge" so nobody would take my wording as proven fact.

I did read it carefully, and I chose what I stated carefully.

You come into a sponsored log to make suggestions to the logger for common sense things he has already addressed (he said he doesn’t have a test source now & obviously intends to use a base of test when he can again), as well as extrapolating some notion that anyone is suggesting using HCG is a suitable replacement for testosterone. Nobody has said that, nor have I said anything about it raising test levels - I said it will raise E2. And estrogen is very important for overall health and well-being. OP had neither test nor estrogen initially, which is going to equal a bad time.

I AM stating HCG will cause a release of test in the testes regardless of what other gear you are taking. I am NOT saying the leydig cells can’t get desensitized from too much HCG (they can), nor am I saying taking more HCG causes a bigger release.

Anyone who has used HCG can attest you can feel effects from it. On a practical level, it’s a benefit here for OP vs nothing at all. Very basic concept that you seem to have some weird agenda against.

I mainly just don’t appreciate you derailing things because you didn’t bother to actually read the thread clearly, and now back-pedaling with opinion-based arguments about why you don’t want OP to use HCG.

@TheVenom Sorry for addressing the clutter. I’m done

 

[TheVenom]

I did read it carefully, and I chose what I stated carefully.

You come into a sponsored log to make suggestions to the logger for common sense things he has already addressed (he said he doesn’t have a test source now & obviously intends to use a base of test when he can again), as well as extrapolating some notion that anyone is suggesting using HCG is a suitable replacement for testosterone. Nobody has said that, nor have I said anything about it raising test levels - I said it will raise E2. And estrogen is very important for overall health and well-being. OP had neither test nor estrogen initially, which is going to equal a bad time.

I AM stating HCG will cause a release of test in the testes regardless of what other gear you are taking. I am NOT saying the leydig cells can’t get desensitized from too much HCG (they can), nor am I saying taking more HCG causes a bigger release.

Anyone who has used HCG can attest you can feel effects from it. On a practical level, it’s a benefit here for OP vs nothing at all. Very basic concept that you seem to have some weird agenda against.

I mainly just don’t appreciate you derailing things because you didn’t bother to actually read the thread clearly, and now back-pedaling with opinion-based arguments about why you don’t want OP to use HCG.

@TheVenom Sorry for addressing the clutter. I’m done

I don't want to forgive you, but I love you... So I must.

 

[Jinsun]

I AM stating HCG will cause a release of test in the testes regardless of what other gear you are taking. I am NOT saying the leydig cells can’t get desensitized from too much HCG (they can), nor am I saying taking more HCG causes a bigger release.

Anyone who has used HCG can attest you can feel effects from it. On a practical level, it’s a benefit here for OP vs nothing at all. Very basic concept that you seem to have some weird agenda against.

Off course you can feel it. Feelz are not just test levels, there are also neurosteroids, dhea, etc. LH/HCG has more functions then just leydig cells. And no, hcg/LH does not stimulate the production of test in the same manner in all environments. This is rather clear, but you somehow seem to be missing the point and your anger, towards me "derailing" a sponsored log, has thus far made your argumentation misguided and that helped "derail" this thread even more. I'll reiterate some examples:

- ostarine suppresses test production but leaves LH "alone" for the first couple of weeks. My bloods on 25mg ostarine at week 5: LH 3.0 (normal LH for me), TT basically zero.
- Tbol 50mg with a serm and hcg: LH cca 0.9, TT below lab range
- SD at 20mg, similar to above tbol
- I'm sure there are more examples of this, but just the ostarines example should be enough at illustrating that leydig cells react to androgen levels.

So giving advice to the OP about keeping test and not relying solely on hcg (especially since he has only one gonad left and his natural test is at 100) is imo still sound advice and I don't feel bad about it in any way.

In any case, this is a sponsored log that didn't mention some crucial information like op's trt protocal for instance. How can anybody judge his "feelings" without that info? I sure as heck got confused. And the cycle is also badly drawn out by going off of test and getting on hcg (with only one gonad left) somewhere in the middle of the cycle. But that's my opinion and I'll leave it at that. I've always tried to help here on AM when I saw somebody didn't know what he/she was doing and the paradigm of paid/sponsored log's is apparently lost on me, but I'll fall in line from now on and keep my distance. Sorry op if I made a salad of your perfectly prepared roasted chicken and corn lunch - that did look rather tasty. I'll but out now <3

 

[TheVenom]

Like has been said a few times, some less-than-ideal shit occurred, and I rolled with it. It's working out fairly well

 

[nostrum420]

inb4 broscientists

Do I get a prize or something?

 

[ValiantThor08]

On HCG I noticed systemic rise in E2 and test levels. Sensitive nipples and and libido spikes included.

 

[TheVenom]

Guys, this week had been absolutely crazy. I'll give the full week's update and weigh in tomorrow night

 

[ValiantThor08]

Guys, this week had been absolutely crazy. I'll give the full week's update and weigh in tomorrow night

Is it tomorrow night yet? Lol

 

[TheVenom]

Is it tomorrow night yet? Lol

It is now!

Sun (Rest)
Intake: 3,313
30m yoga (With my son, so about 5m of actual proper yoga

Mon - Chest & Tri's
Intake: 3,095
Incline Press (10x10 - 145lbs with VERY slow reps)
DB Fly 21's (6 sets - 40lbs)
Wide Pushup (10x8)
Diamond Pushup (10x6)
Tricep Dips (15x5)


Tue - Back & Bi's
Intake: 3,209
Cable Rows (15x10 old machine and the numbers are worn off, no idea of the weight)
Reverse Fly (10x10 - 30lbs - took longer breaks on the last 5 sets because of pump)
Alt. DB Hammers (15x10 - 30lbs)
BB Curls (Didn't count reps. Went to failure 8 times - 70lbs)


Wed
Intake: 3,301
Output: Rest

Thu
Intake: 3,117
Squat-Jump (15x15)
Ham Curl (10x10 - 60lbs)
Farmers Carry (Zilch, Immediate pain when first lifting the frame.)
Remainder called off.

I've spent yesterday and today making sure to take it easy physically. I haven't even done much at work since Thursday. The pain wasn't agonizing, but it was there and enough to remind me of the mistakes I've made in the past when it comes to my back. I honestly haven't even hurt at all since I woke up Friday morning, but I refuse to be out again because I didn't play it safe this time. I'm going to go some light core, stretching, and mobility work tomorrow and avoid exerting my lower back as I resume my normal routine.

 

[TheVenom]

Abs are slowly fading away. Vascularity is impressive 24/7. I'm in a great headspace, and I'm happy about how I look and feel. My scale is definitely getting retired tonight, because it says I weigh 107lbs . I'll get a new one tomorrow and update you guys. I'm very excited, because even if it's a little water and fat, I like how it looks on me.

2 weeks left to go. I wonder if 180-185lbs is realistic

 

[BEAST73]

Looking good, Bro! You have put on some lean muscle!

 

[TheVenom]

Looking good, Bro! You have put on some lean muscle!

Thanks for the compliment my man! I'll definitely be revisiting this compound for second round once I'm on TRT. May throw in an oral. The SD I have sitting in my cabinet is a tempting one, but lawdhammercy on my BP

 

[TheVenom]

YA BOY IS AT 169. 100mg is treating me like a goddamn princess

 

[Iwilleattuna]

The dienogen is really working for sure.

for pct have you considered other apex products such as aet or arimahex ?

 

[Segansational]

YA BOY IS AT 169. 100mg is treating me like a goddamn princess

And you started at 145#?

 

[TheVenom]

YA BOY IS AT 169. 100mg is treating me like a goddamn princess

And you started at 145#?

Started the log at 145, ended my fast at around 130.

 

[29Robe]

So my wisdom teeth are causing hell. I've got some tianepine coming to help take the edge off of the pain. It's kind of hard to eat so most of my intake will be coming from soft foods and shakes... I never wanted my steak addiction to end this way

Hey,
I had a wisdom tooth too. After the tooth extraction, I choose to have dental implants. After having implants, I never had any dental issues. It is a good option for people having wisdom teeth. In the current situation, I think you should consult a dentist.

 

[TheVenom]

Big update coming tonight

 

[TheVenom]

I was wondering why noone replied, turns out I never hit the post button

I've got one week left, and looking back at the progress made, this has been the most dramatic change I've ever made over the course of 6 weeks. I've already made it to the weight I was at before the fast.

Monday

Intake: 2679 (had to leave and go back to work before dinner, stayed there all night)
Output: Chest & Delts
Flat Bench - 10 x 10 #180
Incline Bench - 10 x 10 #145
Chest Dips - 15 x 8 (bad form on the last set, really struggled)
OHP - 10 x 10 #120
Arnold Press - 12 x 12 #45

Tuesday
Imtake: 3,213

Output: Cardio
I realized that the closest thing I've done to cardio is keeping a high tempo. I started with a mile run that took 9 minutes. I had to stop a couple of times for several seconds, and my knees didn't appreciate the gesture either. I emptied my battle-ropes (fire hoses filled with sand) and went did 1m slow, followed by 30s fast (x4). If you guys are looking for a killer cardio move, battle ropes is the one. I slept like a mummy.


Wednesday: Rest


Thursday
Intake: 3005
Output: Core
I also realized that I hadn't been doing my daily core work, and in order to prevent tweaking my back again, decided to give it the TLC it deserves. I guess I deleted the memo made to record the workouts, so this one is from memory, and may not be 100% accurate. All movements had an emphasis on control and form. Slow reps, really making sure I feel exactly what I'm working.

Knee Raise - 15 x 10
Side Plank - 45s per-side x4 (each side)
Good Mornings - 10 x 10 (no weight)
Dead Lift - 10 x 10 (just the bar, it was so tempting to load it up and rip the bitch off the floor, and very disheartening to have to accept that heavy dead are behind me for good)
Superman - 10 x 30s
Plank - 3 x 45s (wanted to do 1m, but my core was on FIRE)
10m Yoga
10m Stretching

Friday - Saturday
I was supposed to post this update yesterday, but life happened. I had some unexpected work problems with a unit about 2.5h in the opposite direction of my house, so I booked a nice hotel close to where I had to be- everything from the gym to the breakfast was unbelievable for the price. When I made it there, it had been double booked, and the other guest was already there. My only other option within 30 minutes was a motel that didn't even have an attached parking lot. Bad turned to awful, and I ended up staying tonight as well. Two nights with no gym access, cable, wifi, or fully functioning AC. The bed feels like it was carved out of a volcano as hard and lumpy as it is. Without context, I sound spoiled to be complaining about a lack of amenities, but it's BS for things like this to get in the way when I'm so close to wrapping things up. My guts feel like an exploding boiler from the meal replacement bars and protein shakes. I can't even order decent food because there's nothing but fast food here and a (very expensive) Cajun grill. I WOULD order from there, but my refund for the first hotel hasn't been refunded. I just really needed to vent about this. I won't make it home in time for church tomorrow, guys. Y'all pray for me because I've said some very hurtful things to some people who aren't actually to blame for my situation.

 

[nostrum420]

I was wondering why noone replied, turns out I never hit the post button

I've got one week left, and looking back at the progress made, this has been the most dramatic change I've ever made over the course of 6 weeks. I've already made it to the weight I was at before the fast.

Monday

Intake: 2679 (had to leave and go back to work before dinner, stayed there all night)
Output: Chest & Delts
Flat Bench - 10 x 10 #180
Incline Bench - 10 x 10 #145
Chest Dips - 15 x 8 (bad form on the last set, really struggled)
OHP - 10 x 10 #120
Arnold Press - 12 x 12 #45

Tuesday
Imtake: 3,213

Output: Cardio
I realized that the closest thing I've done to cardio is keeping a high tempo. I started with a mile run that took 9 minutes. I had to stop a couple of times for several seconds, and my knees didn't appreciate the gesture either. I emptied my battle-ropes (fire hoses filled with sand) and went did 1m slow, followed by 30s fast (x4). If you guys are looking for a killer cardio move, battle ropes is the one. I slept like a mummy.


Wednesday: Rest


Thursday
Intake: 3005
Output: Core
I also realized that I hadn't been doing my daily core work, and in order to prevent tweaking my back again, decided to give it the TLC it deserves. I guess I deleted the memo made to record the workouts, so this one is from memory, and may not be 100% accurate. All movements had an emphasis on control and form. Slow reps, really making sure I feel exactly what I'm working.

Knee Raise - 15 x 10
Side Plank - 45s per-side x4 (each side)
Good Mornings - 10 x 10 (no weight)
Dead Lift - 10 x 10 (just the bar, it was so tempting to load it up and rip the bitch off the floor, and very disheartening to have to accept that heavy dead are behind me for good)
Superman - 10 x 30s
Plank - 3 x 45s (wanted to do 1m, but my core was on FIRE)
10m Yoga
10m Stretching

Friday - Saturday
I was supposed to post this update yesterday, but life happened. I had some unexpected work problems with a unit about 2.5h in the opposite direction of my house, so I booked a nice hotel close to where I had to be- everything from the gym to the breakfast was unbelievable for the price. When I made it there, it had been double booked, and the other guest was already there. My only other option within 30 minutes was a motel that didn't even have an attached parking lot. Bad turned to awful, and I ended up staying tonight as well. Two nights with no gym access, cable, wifi, or fully functioning AC. The bed feels like it was carved out of a volcano as hard and lumpy as it is. Without context, I sound spoiled to be complaining about a lack of amenities, but it's BS for things like this to get in the way when I'm so close to wrapping things up. My guts feel like an exploding boiler from the meal replacement bars and protein shakes. I can't even order decent food because there's nothing but fast food here and a (very expensive) Cajun grill. I WOULD order from there, but my refund for the first hotel hasn't been refunded. I just really needed to vent about this. I won't make it home in time for church tomorrow, guys. Y'all pray for me because I've said some very hurtful things to some people who aren't actually to blame for my situation.

Big oof. I can't sleep if it's too hot. I would be upset too. I hope things turn around for ya.

 

[TheVenom]

Big oof. I can't sleep if it's too hot. I would be upset too. I hope things turn around for ya.

I'll be done with this traveling nonsense before January. I'm missing too much time with my son. My contract expires in a week, so I talked it out with my boss, and I'll be done training my replacement in mid December. After that, all of my work will be within a 50 mile radius and will pay better than what I've been traveling to do. For now though, I'm just busting ass making sure everything is set up for the new guy's success because if they can't manage without me this time, oh well.

 

[Hyde]

Why are heavy deadlifts behind you for good?

 

[xR1pp3Rx]

Why are heavy deadlifts behind you for good?

from the sounds of things, I would have been dead lifting a couple reception desks...