The wait is finally over...

[abformulations]

I would say you would need half of the typical dose. So 2 caps of epiandro for 500mg should be as effective, if not more, than 1000mg of raw epiandro.

Impressive

 

[Misfit28]

60 ct. - $39.99

120 ct. - $69.99

 

[dcne02]

Release date?

 

[BamBam0319]

Epiandro 74.99 for 120ct
49.99 for 60ct

 

[cubs1987]

All over this. Super stoked

 

[B5150]

That's right, they are finally here! Your favorite legal dhea derivatives featuring solid sedds delivery technology. Now, what is s-sedds?

Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems (SEDDS). SEDDS have been proven in the last two decades to be a phenomenal success. They are able to overcome some of the biggest challenges confronting contemporary delivery science today by improving on the oral bioavailability of compounds with poor and inconsistent gastrointestinal absorption. SEDDS do so by facilitating absorption of compounds via the intestinal lymphatic system and thus circumnavigating the hepatic first-pass effect. The lymphatic system is a drainage network that extends throughout the entire body in proximity to the circulatory system and is a logical target since orally administered compounds can work more effectively when transported selectively to the intestinal lymphatic system. The bioavailability of compounds that undergo significant first-pass metabolism in the liver, as Andros do without enhanced delivery methods, can be improved dramatically by utilizing the lymphatic system for absorption in the intestine, thus avoiding the destructive first-pass effect in the liver.

However SEDDS are typically prepared in a liquid form, which can result in some disadvantages, for example, low stability, large volume of dose and issues with handling and portability. To overcome these issues, solid-SEDDS (S-SEDDS) has emerged to improve upon an already excellent delivery system. Through solidification of liquid self-emulsifying systems into powders the liquid SEDDS can be converted into solid dosage form without affecting compound release property. Thus, S-SEDDS combines the advantages of SEDDS (i.e., enhanced solubility and bioavailability) with those of solid dosage forms (e.g., high stability and reproducibility, compact dosage form and ease of handling and portability). Though it has little, if any, current presence in the world of supplementation, S-SEDDS is a cutting edge and highly effective delivery system utilized by the pharmaceutical industry. It is without a doubt one of the most effective means by which to deliver any compound at this point in time, and stands to replace other more antiquated methods delivery in the very near future.

Do you have data to support that it actually circumnavigates hepatic first pass and actually dramatically improves bioavailability?

 

[BamBam0319]

Will 4-andro be offered in 60 and 120 count? Also MAP as in aminos?

what..? Haha

 

[Toren]

what..? Haha

Tequila, I believe.

 

[daxiang]

60 count $39.99
120 count $54.99

 

[georgetown]

what..? Haha

Idk i looked it up haha i guess ive never heard of map

 

[georgetown]

60 count - $60
120 - $80

 

[daxiang]

60 count - $49.99
120 count - $69.99

 

[Misfit28]

Forgot to say I'm talking about the Epi-Andro.

 

[Aaron.Cole]

That's legit right there.

 

[highlander31]

Epiandro- 44.99 / 79.99. 60/120

 

[dave39]

Second guess

60ct - 37.99

120ct - 64.99

 

[BamBam0319]

Second guess
Epiandro: 39.99 for 60ct
69.99 for 120ct

 

[Zug]

Definetly will be adding in the 1-andro into a test cycle

Read my mind, assuming the price is good enough, might try a 1-andro+trt recomp cycle. Workin on LeGenD plus test right now, endurance is, pun intended, legendary. Size gains are nothing out of the ordinary however.

Yates mirin that upfrontness btw.

 

[dave39]

I really hope the initial sale on these is a good one.

 

[BamBam0319]

I really hope the initial sale on these is a good one.

Dude it's Olympus. You know it will be.

 

[Ag99]

I really hope the initial sale on these is a good one.

Same here...been holding off some other insiders for this one!!!

 

[hamdysayed]

2nd guess
epi andro
50 bucks 60 count
90 bucks 120 count
1 and 4 andro
50 bucks for 60 count.
70 bucks for 90 count.

 

[Aaron.Cole]

For the epi, gonna guess:
38.99 for the 60ct
68.99 for the 120ct

Is my guess supposed to be in GBP?

Already running a log, this is just for kicks.

 

[georgetown]

Second guess

Epiandro

60 ct $45
120 ct $65

 

[georgetown]

What if olympus was actually just trying to see what they should sell it for haha everyone guess $20!

 

[dave39]

What if olympus was actually just trying to see what they should sell it for haha everyone guess $20!

I was thinking the same thing lol.
Maybe $20 for the release sale

 

[Thiefcatcher]

I don't wanna guess, just tell me so I can buy some :nervous:

 

[Hastur]

Do you have data to support that it actually circumnavigates hepatic first pass and actually dramatically improves bioavailability?

I am unable to post links due to my post count, so forgive me for not directly linking you. However there is a vast amount of data available regarding SEDDS freely accessible online. For data supporting SEDDS circumnavigating hepatic first pass, you can see it referenced frequently in various literature. And for data supporting that it can dramatically improve bioavailability, you can also find a multitude of studies regarding the improved bioavailability of SEDDS enhanced compounds.

Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery Systems (SEDDS): Formulation Development, Characterization, and Applications
PMID: 2013663
"Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems (SEDDS) possess unparalleled potential in improving oral bioavailability of poorly water-soluble drugs. Following their oral administration, these systems rapidly disperse in gastrointestinal fluids, yielding micro- or nanoemulsions containing the solubilized drug. Owing to its miniscule globule size, the micro/nanoemulsifed drug can easily be absorbed through lymphatic pathways, bypassing the hepatic first-pass effect."

Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems: an approach to enhance oral bioavailability.
PMID: 20727418
"Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems are a vital tool in solving low bioavailability issues of poorly soluble drugs. Hydrophobic drugs can be dissolved in these systems, enabling them to be administered as a unit dosage form for per-oral administration. When such a system is released in the lumen of the gastrointestinal tract, it disperses to form a fine emulsion (micro/nano) with the aid of GI fluid. This leads to in situ solubilization of drug that can subsequently be absorbed by lymphatic pathways, bypassing the hepatic first-pass effect."

Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems (SEDDS) of coenzyme Q10: formulation development and bioavailability assessment.
PMID: 11165081
"A two-fold increase in the bioavailability was observed for the self-emulsifying system compared to a powder formulation. SEDDS have improved the bioavailability of CoQ10 significantly. The data suggest the potential use of SEDDS to provide an efficient way of improving oral absorption of lipophilic drugs."

Comparative bioavailability study in dogs of a self-emulsifying formulation of progesterone presented in a pellet and liquid form compared with an aqueous suspension of progesterone.
PMID: 15124207
"Although the maximum absorption was slightly retarded (0.5 to 1 h) by SES (pellets and liquid), AUC and C(max) were approximately seven and nine times greater then those obtained when an aqueous suspension formulation of the same dose of progesterone was administered to the same dogs. These results showed that it was possible to improve the bioavailability of the poorly soluble, poorly permeable progesterone when administered in SES. Moreover, presenting the progesterone in the form of a pellet did not prevent the release of the drug in vivo."

^This last study is in fact regarding SEDDS, even though it is referenced as SES in this excerpt from the abstract, just to avoid any confusion. And you can find that this study is cited in the review article "Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery Systems: A. Strategy to Improve Oral Bioavailability. Kanika Sarpal, Yogesh B. Pawar and Arvind K." where in Table 5 they list "Examples of SEDDS/SMEDDS describing oral bioavailability enhancement of poorly water soluble drugs". In this review article they reference that the study shows "Progesterone" has a "BA 9-fold higher from SEDDS".


I hope that this post has helped!

 

[wesb2387]

60ct-44.99
120ct-79.99

 

[DennisTheDane]

60 caps 42.99
90 caps 63.99

My bid ��

 

[rowdyroddy]

Can confirm legit-ness of SEDDS delivery system, as I regularly use Wicked Supplements' RES100 which uses SEDDS as delivery system. Awesome product for controlling estrogen and test levels. As an aside, while using RES100 with SEDDS, the over the counter sleeping pill I use daily knocks me out like a light. Currently using Ostarine @10mg + Lecheek Andro 5A with RES100 to compare to the last time I used Ostarine @ 20mg + Andro 5A without SEDDS.

 

[clown007]

That's an interesting point. If the SEDDS (or any delivery system) aids in the absorption and efficacy of other things taken along side it.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

Yes, the math looks amazing but I just don't see any of these new delivery systems living up to that hype, sedds included. That is the reasoning behind the dosing on these. It would be awesome if it did turn out to be that strong and we had to dial back dosing but I'm not holding my breath on that one.

I agree. There's also Transdermal, which we know works well enough for Rx Grade Test (Andro-Gel), and we have several mfgs of PH using TD. TD provides complete 1st Pass bypass - but I'm not 100% on that. It would be interesting to compare dosed matched SEDDS vs Transdermal.

 

[yates84]

I agree. There's also Transdermal, which we know works well enough for Rx Grade Test (Andro-Gel), and we have several mfgs of PH using TD. TD provides complete 1st Pass bypass - but I'm not 100% on that. It would be interesting to compare dosed matched SEDDS vs Transdermal.

I'm predicting that real world results of solid sedds will be on part with transdermal delivery. The whole purpose behind all of these delivery systems is to skip the first pass of the liver, they just do this through different means. The main thing other companies are missing is an effective dose that will spike blood levels. I've used a lot of td's in the past because of this enhancemeant, I'm actually on td tren right now. I'm still using 120mg of the td just like I would if I was using oral tren, I know the td is going to be more effective but that doesn't mean that I'm going to drop my dose to 30mg and expect it to perform like 120mg of oral tren, it makes no sense to me. I must transfer this same logic and experience to these absorbtion enhancers for all the dhea derivatives that are out now, the enhancement will help but full doses will still be the most effective way to use these products.

 

[rowdyroddy]

That's an interesting point. If the SEDDS (or any delivery system) aids in the absorption and efficacy of other things taken along side it.

Certainly does, alcohol included

 

[The_Old_Guy]

I'm predicting that real world results of solid sedds will be on part with transdermal delivery. The whole purpose behind all of these delivery systems is to skip the first pass of the liver, they just do this through different means. The main thing other companies are missing is an effective dose that will spike blood levels. I've used a lot of td's in the past because of this enhancemeant, I'm actually on td tren right now. I'm still using 120mg of the td just like I would if I was using oral tren, I know the td is going to be more effective but that doesn't mean that I'm going to drop my dose to 30mg and expect it to perform like 120mg of oral tren, it makes no sense to me. I must transfer this same logic and experience to these absorbtion enhancers for all the dhea derivatives that are out now, the enhancement will help but full doses will still be the most effective way to use these products.

That's a lot of TD Tren

But anyway - yeah, +100 on taking as much as possible for the same or better price than TD! LOL And don't underestimate the convenience factor. I get really tired of putting on Eviscerate or VasoBurn after a while

 

[yates84]

That's a lot of TD Tren

But anyway - yeah, +100 on taking as much as possible for the same or better price than TD! LOL And don't underestimate the convenience factor. I get really tired of putting on Eviscerate or VasoBurn after a while

You can never have too much tr3n

 

[smith_69]

could be way off here yates, but can this system be used with pct supps?

 

[rtmilburn]

So what is SEDDS/S-SEDDS exactly? Is it a drug it self? Is something that's bonded to the molecule? Is not bonded to the molecule? Or what?

 

[yates84]

could be way off here yates, but can this system be used with pct supps?

It can be used with a wide variety of supplements, anything where skipping the first pass of the liver would be benificial. I've actually seen an epicatechin and laxogenin product with the liquid SEDDS delivery system. OL has the phytofuse delivery enhancement for our other supplements so I doubt you will see us use the sedds technology in anything but our dhea products.

 

[yates84]

So what is SEDDS/S-SEDDS exactly? Is it a drug it self? Is something that's bonded to the molecule? Is not bonded to the molecule? Or what?

There's a full discription in the op on sedds and solid sedds

 

[VAGeo15]

Love this Yates - and I'm guessing 4 Andro and 1 Andro aren't far behind

 

[yates84]

Love this Yates - and I'm guessing 4 Andro and 1 Andro aren't far behind

Yessir they are about 2 weeks behind the epiandro.

 

[rtmilburn]

There's a full discription in the op on sedds and solid sedds

I read that but it doesnt explain what sedds is but rather what it does

 

[hamdysayed]

What I LOVE the most about this is
Great delivery system and on top of that a high dose of epiandro.
so it's a win win yall.

 

[yates84]

I read that but it doesnt explain what sedds is but rather what it does

About the only details I could give you is the label ingredients in the op. Sedds is proprietary so there is only so much info available on it. You guys officially know just as much as I do about it now.

 

[Hastur]

That's an interesting point. If the SEDDS (or any delivery system) aids in the absorption and efficacy of other things taken along side it.

To put it simplistically, this should not be the case, as the reasoning behind SEDDS effectiveness is that the target compound is 'coated' in a way that allows it specifically to be absorbed lymphatically. To say it could improve the absorption or efficacy of other compounds is like saying you take two supplements, and somehow one ends up inside the capsule of the other. This is the most reasonable analogy I can come up with.

I agree. There's also Transdermal, which we know works well enough for Rx Grade Test (Andro-Gel), and we have several mfgs of PH using TD. TD provides complete 1st Pass bypass - but I'm not 100% on that. It would be interesting to compare dosed matched SEDDS vs Transdermal.

Indeed, transdermal delivery also bypasses the liver, but not with more effectiveness than SEDDS. They both equally bypass the liver, there are no degrees of bypassing, it either does or doesn't happen. However transdermals are limited in their absorption, in this instance you mention Andro-Gel, so allow me to give an example:

AndroGel® (testosterone gel)
Source: National Center for Biotechnology Information
"Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin surface from AndroGel is absorbed into systemic circulation. Therefore, 5 g and 10 g of AndroGel systemically deliver approximately 5 mg and 10 mg of testosterone, respectively."

Now, transdermal delivery has its place, that is not being questioned. However, SEDDS should allow for a higher percentage to be absorbed, as many studies in various compounds utilizing SEDDS show FAR better than 10%.

 

[rowdyroddy]

To put it simplistically, this should not be the case, as the reasoning behind SEDDS effectiveness is that the target compound is 'coated' in a way that allows it specifically to be absorbed lymphatically. To say it could improve the absorption or efficacy of other compounds is like saying you take two supplements, and somehow one ends up inside the capsule of the other. This is the most reasonable analogy I can come up with.

Speaking from experience, SEDDS does indeed act on other compounds you may be taking alongside

 

[B5150]

I am unable to post links due to my post count, so forgive me for not directly linking you. However there is a vast amount of data available regarding SEDDS freely accessible online. For data supporting SEDDS circumnavigating hepatic first pass, you can see it referenced frequently in various literature. And for data supporting that it can dramatically improve bioavailability, you can also find a multitude of studies regarding the improved bioavailability of SEDDS enhanced compounds.

Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery Systems (SEDDS): Formulation Development, Characterization, and Applications
PMID: 2013663
"Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems (SEDDS) possess unparalleled potential in improving oral bioavailability of poorly water-soluble drugs. Following their oral administration, these systems rapidly disperse in gastrointestinal fluids, yielding micro- or nanoemulsions containing the solubilized drug. Owing to its miniscule globule size, the micro/nanoemulsifed drug can easily be absorbed through lymphatic pathways, bypassing the hepatic first-pass effect."

Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems: an approach to enhance oral bioavailability.
PMID: 20727418
"Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems are a vital tool in solving low bioavailability issues of poorly soluble drugs. Hydrophobic drugs can be dissolved in these systems, enabling them to be administered as a unit dosage form for per-oral administration. When such a system is released in the lumen of the gastrointestinal tract, it disperses to form a fine emulsion (micro/nano) with the aid of GI fluid. This leads to in situ solubilization of drug that can subsequently be absorbed by lymphatic pathways, bypassing the hepatic first-pass effect."

Self-emulsifying drug delivery systems (SEDDS) of coenzyme Q10: formulation development and bioavailability assessment.
PMID: 11165081
"A two-fold increase in the bioavailability was observed for the self-emulsifying system compared to a powder formulation. SEDDS have improved the bioavailability of CoQ10 significantly. The data suggest the potential use of SEDDS to provide an efficient way of improving oral absorption of lipophilic drugs."

Comparative bioavailability study in dogs of a self-emulsifying formulation of progesterone presented in a pellet and liquid form compared with an aqueous suspension of progesterone.
PMID: 15124207
"Although the maximum absorption was slightly retarded (0.5 to 1 h) by SES (pellets and liquid), AUC and C(max) were approximately seven and nine times greater then those obtained when an aqueous suspension formulation of the same dose of progesterone was administered to the same dogs. These results showed that it was possible to improve the bioavailability of the poorly soluble, poorly permeable progesterone when administered in SES. Moreover, presenting the progesterone in the form of a pellet did not prevent the release of the drug in vivo."

^This last study is in fact regarding SEDDS, even though it is referenced as SES in this excerpt from the abstract, just to avoid any confusion. And you can find that this study is cited in the review article "Self-Emulsifying Drug Delivery Systems: A. Strategy to Improve Oral Bioavailability. Kanika Sarpal, Yogesh B. Pawar and Arvind K." where in Table 5 they list "Examples of SEDDS/SMEDDS describing oral bioavailability enhancement of poorly water soluble drugs". In this review article they reference that the study shows "Progesterone" has a "BA 9-fold higher from SEDDS".


I hope that this post has helped!

Id love to see that oral bioavailability of xxxx when administered unaltered produced xxxx in plasma levels and the oral availability of same with SEDDS produced xxxx in plasma levels.

You have a 772 post count.

No worries it is what it is. Thanks.

 

[The_Old_Guy]

To put it simplistically, this should not be the case, as the reasoning behind SEDDS effectiveness is that the target compound is 'coated' in a way that allows it specifically to be absorbed lymphatically. To say it could improve the absorption or efficacy of other compounds is like saying you take two supplements, and somehow one ends up inside the capsule of the other. This is the most reasonable analogy I can come up with.

Indeed, transdermal delivery also bypasses the liver, but not with more effectiveness than SEDDS. They both equally bypass the liver, there are no degrees of bypassing, it either does or doesn't happen. However transdermals are limited in their absorption, in this instance you mention Andro-Gel, so allow me to give an example:

AndroGel® (testosterone gel)
Source: National Center for Biotechnology Information
"Approximately 10% of the testosterone dose applied on the skin surface from AndroGel is absorbed into systemic circulation. Therefore, 5 g and 10 g of AndroGel systemically deliver approximately 5 mg and 10 mg of testosterone, respectively."

Now, transdermal delivery has its place, that is not being questioned. However, SEDDS should allow for a higher percentage to be absorbed, as many studies in various compounds utilizing SEDDS show FAR better than 10%.

This all goes back to what I asked earlier:

It's a real shame nobody at OL (and I assume Hi-Tech as well?) ran bloods and body-comp/strength measurements before and during an 8 week cycle of these things, before release. Until that is obtained, it's all "should be better" and "look at this study with Progesterone" etc... Believe me, I hope it all pans out, don't get me wrong.