the truth on cardarine

[solidsnake]

Sup bros I wanted to start a discussion thread on cardarine, I personally love the stuff for cardio but there are many studies that indicate good, bad and ugly.
So let's put this to bed with input of all you knowledgable guys on the benefits and down sides of the aforementioned based on Real study's and personal experiences. For instance the cancer thing; ok they used mega doses on rats that to get the same effect would mean we would have to take over 1 gram a day so that can't really be taken into consideration really, the liver fibrosis thing, also the benefits such as being able to double your cardio output effortlessly. StanleyG started a great write up on mk677( thanks Stan) so let's talk about cardarine...

 

[StanleyG]

Thank you for the kind words, I appreciate it.
I have to be honest about this one. Ive tried it with and without aicar and I really dont think it does much for me. In fct I know it doesnt, thats just for me personally. Combine that with the fact that you cannot dispute that prars definitely play a role in the proliferation of cancer cells and ill leave this one on the shelf thank you very much man.
Thats just my opinion but gw and sr9009 and any other prar agonist just arent worth it for me personally.

 

[Blergs]

I agree.... not worth it IMO

 

[yates84]

It's good for lowering bp during pct, haven't really gotten any other good uses out of it.

 

[solidsnake]

Thanks for your input guys, appreciate it. more opinions out there please and experiences. Whilst we're on prars we might as well add in the less known Sr9009, I've never tried it but I know its bioavailability and half life make it pointless...

 

[Tank999]

It's good for lowering bp during pct, haven't really gotten any other good uses out of it.

How about using it during a ph cycle to keep bp under control?

 

[Bunshichi]

How about using it during a ph cycle to keep bp under control?

There is the problem with the fibrosis thing. At least with stuff that is extremely hard on the liver.

If liver cells die the liver can regenerate with cell proliferation and get back to the amount of cells.
However if the area of necrosis is too big the structure of the liver gets hurt. To rebuild the structure some of the cells built in the liver will be determined and differentiate to cells containing huge amounts of collagen. Thats scar tissue. Because of the high amount of collagen fibres built we call this fibrosis. The problem with fibrosis is that this tissue is not made of regular liver cells and can't carry out its function.

GW seems to determine new build liver cells to become collagen producing cells or at least highers the chance of this determination.

So with really liver toxic compounds you are good taking your eyes away off GW. But IMO the rist in a PCT after such compounds is greater due to the liver regenerating most during that time.

 

[Bunshichi]

i love GW!

i am only using a gw501516 product, is this liver toxic??? should i get some liver support?

No. GW taken alone without prior existing liver damage even seems to lower liver enzyme values.
Although this is not necessarily an indication of better liver function its usually linked with positive effects on the liver.

TO THE CURRENT POINT OF KNOWLEDGE you absolutely don't have to be afraid of damaging your liver with the use of GW alone.

 

[StanleyG]

There is the problem with the fibrosis thing. At least with stuff that is extremely hard on the liver.

If liver cells die the liver can regenerate with cell proliferation and get back to the amount of cells.
However if the area of necrosis is too big the structure of the liver gets hurt. To rebuild the structure some of the cells built in the liver will be determined and differentiate to cells containing huge amounts of collagen. Thats scar tissue. Because of the high amount of collagen fibres built we call this fibrosis. The problem with fibrosis is that this tissue is not made of regular liver cells and can't carry out its function.

GW seems to determine new build liver cells to become collagen producing cells or at least highers the chance of this determination.

So with really liver toxic compounds you are good taking your eyes away off GW. But IMO the rist in a PCT after such compounds is greater due to the liver regenerating most during that time.

This is why I just do not understand why people are so consumed with the need to mess with prar agonists in any way. For me the benefits just dont come close to outweighing the costs. It is irrefutable the effect prars have on atypical cell proliferation (ie cancer) and in this case as you pointed out, liver cells that are ultimately noon functional. Its crazy IMO....

 

[StanleyG]

but its safer to use GW-501516 than something that messes with the HPTA for some one under the age of 21,

do you agree?

No i dont think either is prudent or safe to be honest .

 

[StanleyG]

do you think GW-501516 is more dangerous for some one under the age of 21?

18+

The dangers that concern me with gw have nothing to do with age at all.......

 

[Bunshichi]

No i dont think either is prudent or safe to be honest .

I agree on not beeing totally safe but I still consider PPAR modulators safer than Androgens the younger the age.

 

[StanleyG]

I agree on not beeing totally safe but I still consider PPAR modulators safer than Androgens the younger the age.

I dont personally think I can come to the same conclusion. Im of the opinion that neither are prudent.

 

[StanleyG]

is cardarine more cancerogenic than smoking cigarettes?

just to compare it to something,
ive got an answer for this before but im intrested in what you think after researching it

Im not sure as far as cancer causing but as far as the proliferation of cancerous or any form of atypical cells prar agonists are not prudent to use....at all....

 

[solidsnake]

If it's less cancerous than cigarettes then there's not too much to worry about it if doing a short cycle with no other liver damaging compounds ( I would imagine) ppl smoke for decades and decades and don't get cancer

 

[ericos_bob]

I have some Super Cardarine on the way which I'll be happy to report back on once it gets to my door. I'm not too concerned about the potential cancer risks. Sounds very overblown.
I remember when everyone was worried about red meat causing cancer. Later another study proved it unlikely. The same goes for wine, caffeine, nutella etc. They're just a few that have come to mind as cancer causing which have later been debunked. The irony is the hunt for cancer causing agents is becoming a verbal cancer. Go to google and punch in the name of any food product or supplement and add "causes cancer" to the search field. It's amazing how many things have been studied to cause cancer. Chain smoking and radiation poisoning is about my only concern when it comes to cancer mainly due to the statistical evidence in support. Genetics are by far the biggest factor in determining your likelyhood of developing cancer IMO.