Unanswered The risk vs reward...

SwoleNation

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As I'm getting older, now 43... I have used supplements since my early 20's. The only real steroids / ph's ever used have been within the past 3 years... Being m-sten, epistane, and the basic andro's.

I relatively play it safe and use all the supporting supplements to assist with maintaining my health while using the harder stuff...

But.

The biggest concern I find when using stronger supplements is dealing with blood pressure.

Obviously we all have the same kind of goals... But for some reason now I'm starting to question if it's worth it?

How do you guys balance or rationalize risk vs reward?
 
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GreenMachineX

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Good question. I’ve ran multiple cycles in my 20s, but haven’t in years now and value my life and longevity more now than ever. For me, the risks aren’t worth more than my narcissism lol.
 
cheftepesh1

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At 44 I’m just careful when I run anything. You can take a bunch of stuff for blood pressure that can help. I just keep the cycles basic and focus more in clean foods.
 
thebigt

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lol...I was 47 when I ran my 1st cycle. been on trt since I was 49.

now I use natty supps like dermacrine/sustain alpha/Invictus/m-test/diesel test pro cycle to 'enhance' trt, with the occasional month or 2 of transdermal androsterone thrown in.....this has treated me well.
 
Cheeky Monkey

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If you think about, there are a lot of other stressors in life that can raise blood pressure/anxiety etc. At least with PHs/Anabolics, it all leads to a (hopefully) physical enhancement.
 
GreenMachineX

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If you think about, there are a lot of other stressors in life that can raise blood pressure/anxiety etc. At least with PHs/Anabolics, it all leads to a (hopefully) physical enhancement.
And left ventricle hypertrophy amongst a bunch of other potential risks, not just hypertension.
 

Iwilleattuna

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I have extremely low bp, but I fear other issues . Bp can be managed, but the other sides effects really trip me out. It’s like I want to run a simple low dose to assist in my diet and training but I’m just too paranoid. I know if you really want to compete it’s necessary.
 

Iwilleattuna

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Why not consider Sarms over PH'S.??
Sarms worry me more because if you have side effects on sarms, they’re still too experimental to know how to combat.

If you’re getting estrogen side effects on a sarm, how do you combat it? Sarms are suppose to be selective , so will an AI or serm even work in this regard?

Vs

If you’re on AAS such as dbol, you know almost for certain it’s estro

Seems like ostarine has enough use and research though
 
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HIT4ME

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I think using steroids to reach your goals is fine if you are really considering the risk and reward. I applaud you for actually doing this and not just listening to a bunch of bro's on the interweb who want to belief it is safe and just ignore the potential issues.

I think the real key here is, what is your actual goal? Do you want to be as healthy as possible? Strong? Big? What mix of these things do you want and what is most important to you? How do other life factors (family, work, other goals) effect these goals and how are these goals effect those factors?

None if these things are really quantifiable. Each person has to decide I guess.
 
Godstrength

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As I'm older (53), I just do TRT. The blood pressure and anxiety I get from PH's and gear just isn't worth it.
This is the same with me. I got tired of always combating side effects and recently decided to throw in the cycle towel. In the last couple years I've only run mild Cycles added to my trt dose (anavar, primo, masteron etc). My last I threw in some dbol at 25mg/day for a little size and mentally the feel good. Blood pressure takes a tole if it's high over time. AAS are hard on the cardiovascular system. At this point I'm satisfied with the gains I've made and at 42 I'm in it more for longevity and health reasons. It just comes down to when you feel it's run its course I'd say.

Some guys never stop, we all have to make respective decisions as to what our priorities are in life. Whatever you do, do it with all your heart and stick to your guns man. To each his own.
 
bell1986

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I have this exact same mindset now. I am 33 and have put enough junk through my body over the years. I actually made a post recently to see how people keep good health on TRT and the response was very limited.

I personally work with my Doctor and use bloodwork for identifying any abnormal activity. Adjust doses and keep all the ancillaries on hand if needed.

I think one of the best ways in my opinion to remain healthy is not to 'supplement' with what we believe will help us but to focus on what can make a difference with that's been proven. For me i am very active so from a cardio standpoint it's a daily addition to me. I do throw in high intensity cardio now and again just to max my heart out and keep it in good condition. The most important part though for me is DIET. what we fuel our body's with on a daily basis. I use to be the classic bodybuilding diet eater and would be all about the macronutrients and putting on mass. Where as now i focus a lot on foods which are proven to be a benefit to your health. I think one of the healthiest foods is liver. I honestly hate the taste but i still incorporate it into my week. I would say liver is the most nutrient dense food we could consume (Quality source though) another is fish oils and cod liver oil. Apart from EPA DHA being incredible for us overall and has been studied to show reduced inflammation it also has every fat soluble vitamin their is. So i also include cod livers and i use Salmon to boost the EPA DHA content of my diet. I am also very picky about fat sources in my diet. I keep my Omega 3's much higher than Omega 6's. Sounds like a lot to keep track of but once you know the foods to eat you just incorporate them without even thinking eventually.

It's actually scary when you see how much people just do with their body's just to look a certain way or feel a certain way.

A lad i worked with (This is going off the topic btw but just to fit it in and show what can happen especially with our body and overall health) he was 27 and was a decent enough guy. Had a wee boy (2 year old) and a nice girl he had been with for years. I came into work one day to find out his mum had found him dead on the bed. He had took 1 party drug with all his friends on a night out (he very rarely use to touch anything like this) and he went to bed and in his sleep took a heart attack and passed. All from 1 street drug? So it just shows that even if you don't 'abuse' things it can still have a dreadful outcome. After that i really kept on top of my health as i was always slightly paranoid about TRT and overall health. Especially when i use to knock back tons of pre workouts and fat burners etc completely sttessing my heart and cardiovascular system out.

I do what i can to stay healthy these days. Stopped all alcohol ' Don't smoke' Good diet and kept in relatively good shape.

So it just depends how much you value your health tbh. In my early 20's i didn't care. Party drugs and drinking for days on end. Not even a single thought into if i was creating any damage but now i am all about keeping healthy... Without your health you have nothing
 
SwoleNation

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Awesome responses so far...
Appreciate the comments. Mentally it's a tough habit to break. Wanting to look a certain way and never being satisfied with what you see in the mirror.... Always chasing it can obviously put a ton of stress on your body.

The good news is I'm starting to be a little more reasonable with myself...
 
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chemjr

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Some people actually have mental issues as to why they are that way/do the things they do and I started to realize even I felt like one of these at times so now I just have to get use to getting older and having a bum thyroid etc. I will still try to kick as much ass as possible but its hard sometimes (to not put an extra half an ml in that ). Anyways, thats my b.s.
 
HIT4ME

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I think one paradigm that I like, although it may seem a little dramatic, is to try to become as "unkillable" as possible. Sure, strength is a factor here - but it isn't the entire pursuit. Being able to pick up 500 pounds does no good if you are having a stroke or heart attack...or even if you get lost in the woods and have to hike out.

We are all killable, but I am just trying to make it harder f9r life to take me down.
 

Iwilleattuna

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Doing a lot of cardio will keep bp down Ike magic. Also , nitric oxide suppilements aid well too.

The thing is, bodybuilders are some of the healthiest people. They do AAS but always get checked, having bloodwork, eat a healthy diet, train, etc, yet they are still suffering health complications. I wonder if it’s just because aas is illegal and the forums become a place to vent. However, I’ll be honest and say that alcohol and tobacco don’t display the issues that AAS does but if they were made illegal and forums now became dedicated to them, would they have a different light? I can’t really say if a couple beers a week will have the same detrimental effects as blasting tren? I don’t drink or smoke other than the occasional cigar. Obviously hard drugs kill more than anything. You can’t compare hard drugs to hormones , imo.

Don’t get me wrong, though, I believe alcohol is poison and is a hard drug. Just making a point

Some hormones are legal though. DHEA pregnelone, progesterone, etc, all marketed towards females. Why is it that female hormones are so pushed and accepted? Could their be an agenda?

I mean none of this is natural in nature. That causes me an issue sometimes. Almost feels like I’m tainting my body or DNA.

I do believe low doses of possibly nandrolone , primo, var and maybe test can be used safely. All of The 70s bodybuilders are very healthy.

It’s just a scary thing to think about when it’s coming from China and not a US pharmacy.
 

Iwilleattuna

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I have this exact same mindset now. I am 33 and have put enough junk through my body over the years. I actually made a post recently to see how people keep good health on TRT and the response was very limited.

I personally work with my Doctor and use bloodwork for identifying any abnormal activity. Adjust doses and keep all the ancillaries on hand if needed.

I think one of the best ways in my opinion to remain healthy is not to 'supplement' with what we believe will help us but to focus on what can make a difference with that's been proven. For me i am very active so from a cardio standpoint it's a daily addition to me. I do throw in high intensity cardio now and again just to max my heart out and keep it in good condition. The most important part though for me is DIET. what we fuel our body's with on a daily basis. I use to be the classic bodybuilding diet eater and would be all about the macronutrients and putting on mass. Where as now i focus a lot on foods which are proven to be a benefit to your health. I think one of the healthiest foods is liver. I honestly hate the taste but i still incorporate it into my week. I would say liver is the most nutrient dense food we could consume (Quality source though) another is fish oils and cod liver oil. Apart from EPA DHA being incredible for us overall and has been studied to show reduced inflammation it also has every fat soluble vitamin their is. So i also include cod livers and i use Salmon to boost the EPA DHA content of my diet. I am also very picky about fat sources in my diet. I keep my Omega 3's much higher than Omega 6's. Sounds like a lot to keep track of but once you know the foods to eat you just incorporate them without even thinking eventually.

It's actually scary when you see how much people just do with their body's just to look a certain way or feel a certain way.

A lad i worked with (This is going off the topic btw but just to fit it in and show what can happen especially with our body and overall health) he was 27 and was a decent enough guy. Had a wee boy (2 year old) and a nice girl he had been with for years. I came into work one day to find out his mum had found him dead on the bed. He had took 1 party drug with all his friends on a night out (he very rarely use to touch anything like this) and he went to bed and in his sleep took a heart attack and passed. All from 1 street drug? So it just shows that even if you don't 'abuse' things it can still have a dreadful outcome. After that i really kept on top of my health as i was always slightly paranoid about TRT and overall health. Especially when i use to knock back tons of pre workouts and fat burners etc completely sttessing my heart and cardiovascular system out.

I do what i can to stay healthy these days. Stopped all alcohol ' Don't smoke' Good diet and kept in relatively good shape.

So it just depends how much you value your health tbh. In my early 20's i didn't care. Party drugs and drinking for days on end. Not even a single thought into if i was creating any damage but now i am all about keeping healthy... Without your health you have nothing
That’s exactly how I look at it. If you were living in the forest as a natural human, you wouldn’t be injecting a foreign substance or taking anything synthetic really. We live in a different time now , but I agree we must all value health
 

Iwilleattuna

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ive Actually prayed on this for a while. Maybe it’s better to just keep on the natural path.

To be honest, the supps we have now such as Epicatechin and laxogenin are pretty potent. I believe you can do a lot with them
 
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GreenMachineX

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I have this exact same mindset now. I am 33 and have put enough junk through my body over the years. I actually made a post recently to see how people keep good health on TRT and the response was very limited.

I personally work with my Doctor and use bloodwork for identifying any abnormal activity. Adjust doses and keep all the ancillaries on hand if needed.

I think one of the best ways in my opinion to remain healthy is not to 'supplement' with what we believe will help us but to focus on what can make a difference with that's been proven. For me i am very active so from a cardio standpoint it's a daily addition to me. I do throw in high intensity cardio now and again just to max my heart out and keep it in good condition. The most important part though for me is DIET. what we fuel our body's with on a daily basis. I use to be the classic bodybuilding diet eater and would be all about the macronutrients and putting on mass. Where as now i focus a lot on foods which are proven to be a benefit to your health. I think one of the healthiest foods is liver. I honestly hate the taste but i still incorporate it into my week. I would say liver is the most nutrient dense food we could consume (Quality source though) another is fish oils and cod liver oil. Apart from EPA DHA being incredible for us overall and has been studied to show reduced inflammation it also has every fat soluble vitamin their is. So i also include cod livers and i use Salmon to boost the EPA DHA content of my diet. I am also very picky about fat sources in my diet. I keep my Omega 3's much higher than Omega 6's. Sounds like a lot to keep track of but once you know the foods to eat you just incorporate them without even thinking eventually.

It's actually scary when you see how much people just do with their body's just to look a certain way or feel a certain way.

A lad i worked with (This is going off the topic btw but just to fit it in and show what can happen especially with our body and overall health) he was 27 and was a decent enough guy. Had a wee boy (2 year old) and a nice girl he had been with for years. I came into work one day to find out his mum had found him dead on the bed. He had took 1 party drug with all his friends on a night out (he very rarely use to touch anything like this) and he went to bed and in his sleep took a heart attack and passed. All from 1 street drug? So it just shows that even if you don't 'abuse' things it can still have a dreadful outcome. After that i really kept on top of my health as i was always slightly paranoid about TRT and overall health. Especially when i use to knock back tons of pre workouts and fat burners etc completely sttessing my heart and cardiovascular system out.

I do what i can to stay healthy these days. Stopped all alcohol ' Don't smoke' Good diet and kept in relatively good shape.

So it just depends how much you value your health tbh. In my early 20's i didn't care. Party drugs and drinking for days on end. Not even a single thought into if i was creating any damage but now i am all about keeping healthy... Without your health you have nothing
Where was this health and TRT post? I’ll jump in as I’m on TRT at an appropriate and healthy dose.
 

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