The real low down on sarms, my experience

Mitch_310

Mitch_310

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Hello everyone.

I just wanted to spread some real information around about my last sarm cycle I did as well as what you can really expect to see in terms of sides. First off, other forums of guys saying (they are only 5-10% as suppressive as AAS) is totally BS. Also, they advise only to take a about 4-6 weeks off before hopping on again. Again, imo this is dumb since it takes much longer to be fully recovered. Finally, they down play some of the sides you can get and say to run them for 12 weeks and they are totally safe and don't do anything. Let me tell you the real facts on these things.

First off let me break down the cycle I ran. 1-12: lgd 10mg ED 1-12: s4 tapered up to 100mg ed by week 7 1-12: rad 140 tapered up to 30mg ed by week 8

My cycle was pretty high dosed as you can see and I overdid the doses a bit esp on the rad. I dropped the cycle around week 10 since it my mental health was getting crappy and I was feeling really down. At the time, I was also too obsessed with the gym and myself and it started to impact my work/social life. Aka (I felt really stupid and I was an egotistical tool). Finally, the drugs lost their effectiveness by around weeks 8-10, by the end of the cycle I was no longer feeling "on".

results: the results were fantastic, I look like a totally different person from before the cycle till now. I would say I packed on 10-12lbs of solid lean gains and got shredded at the same time (7-8%bf). The way it changed the way I carried muscle also made a big difference to me as well. I looked a little disproportionately big in my shoulders and upper back (this could be due to genetic and training style, also was an NCAA swimmer so I have always had good development in those areas). The drug s4 also gave you a very dry and granite like "look". When i was running doses of 100mg It seemed impossible to put on water weight and bodyfat. Very good for aesthetics and looking like a sikkunt.

pros: sarms work well if you take enough of them along with a good program. They blew away dmz and the andros by far from my experience. Ive never done real aas so I can't compare sarms to that.

cons: sex drive was hit or miss on cycle, I had a few hookups on cycle and even though the ladies were very good looking I did take me a bit longer to get up (which was ass), had no problems staying up though. (this could also be due to the fact I was pretty drunk in almost all instances). gyno flareups here and there on cycle, took letro about 1 time per week to settle it down. Feelings of low test (mentally) towards the end of the cycle.

PCT: coming off I didn't experience a "crash" until about a week off cycle when the drugs cleared. Physically nothing was an issue. But mentally I felt super super depressed pretty much near suicidal all the time. (life was also contributing to this, but I know the sarms made it much worse). weeks 2-4 were also a little rough mentally. By week 5-6 I started to feel back to normal. My pct was 10mg of nolva ed for 3 weeks along with super pct. After I dropped those 2 things I ran daa for 2 weeks and inhibit e. By week 5 (suprisingly once the nolva cleared) My right nipple started to hurt bad. So I have been taking letro since, so far the pain is reduced greatly and the swelling is starting to go down. I will continue to hit the letro until the gyno is gone and taper off then hit nolva for 2 weeks followed by an otc anti e again. As far as my gains go, I haven't lost any strength, in fact I have made strength gains since being off. but what do I look like compared to on cycle? well I look similar, but there is a clear difference to my physique. Im currently maintaining around 10% bf as of right now. My muscle is all still there, but I look much different due to the drugs no longer being in my system. SO, do you keep sarm gains? yes and no, yes in the fact that you keep whatever muscle you gained. No in the fact you're not gonna look as good as you did when you were on drugs. There will be a difference in a negative way aka (you look natural again).

This is a long post. But these things are stronger then people think they are. Look at studies done by actual scientists. Lgd supresses you to a fair extent at 1mg for 21 days. I took way more crap then that. So obviously more shutdown. I guess I am making this not to listen to guys on isarms or evolutionary. Don't run osta in pct (this is retarded) and don't think these things come without sides.

finally. Can they cause gyno? (it depends on the person but most certainly yes) they aren't hormonal and don't convert to estrogen which is very true. However people overlook the fact that if you take enough of these things, your natural test will have no where to go due to your receptors being clogged with the sarms. This will cause conversion to estrogen, it may not be a big issue on cycle, but once off when you remove the sarms you have lowered levels of test with high estrogen. This imbalance creates a favorable environment for gyno once you get off until you re stabilize.

Basically, if anyone is thinking of running sarms here is my takeaway. 1) Don't take as much crap as I did. (stick with 1-2 compounds at moderate doses) 2) only run them for 8-10 weeks max 3) run a low dose AI on cycle like exem 12.5 e3d 4) come off with a serm for at least 4 weeks 5) take long breaks between runs

this was my experience. I got great gains but I pushed it and now I'm suffering a bit. the gyno is under control but these things def messed up more hormones more than what others have said. hope this helps a lot of others.
 

Borashi

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Agree with majority of information given. I ran an 8 wk cycle, wanted to do 12 weeks but by week 8, the lethargy and mind games became to much. I was good mentally about 2 weeks into PCT. No gyno issues either. SARMs will harm if you don't take your cycle run and recovery seriously. It's that simple. Thx for sharing.
 
jameschoi

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Which two compounds do you recommend running.
 
NoAddedHmones

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Have you done bloods post cycle yet? I imagine your lipids would look like a war zone still.
 
Rad83

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Great post, why didn’t you run more of what is the recommend pct here?
 
Old Witch

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To be honest, it sounds more to me like your gyno was from the rebound after nolva. Caused by the nolva. Yes you were suppressed, but you stopped the SARMS and bounced back to production, blocked your estrogen sensitivity with nolva, and so you made a ton of estrogen since your body thought you had none. Once the nolva cleared all that e2 was waiting to hit your nips.

You needed an aromatase inhibitor with all that so you yourself control how you rebound.
 

LaserGoPewPew

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To be honest, it sounds more to me like your gyno was from the rebound after nolva. Caused by the nolva. Yes you were suppressed, but you stopped the SARMS and bounced back to production, blocked your estrogen sensitivity with nolva, and so you made a ton of estrogen since your body thought you had none. Once the nolva cleared all that e2 was waiting to hit your nips.

You needed an aromatase inhibitor with all that so you yourself control how you rebound.
OW how would you have staggered the nolva or some kind of AI in this PCT to ensure this doesnt happen?
 
Old Witch

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OW how would you have staggered the nolva or some kind of AI in this PCT to ensure this doesnt happen?
I would have just used the AI throughout the cycle and then tapered it off after. Once you're shut down you won't have excess estrogen (in fact it will likely go down to nothing) while running SARMS, so you only have to protect yourself from huge amounts of aromatase hanging around waiting for your balls to turn back on.
 
Mitch_310

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Have you done bloods post cycle yet? I imagine your lipids would look like a war zone still.
Not yet, and I’m not sure. I eat a very clean diet plus I do cardio and I’m going. I bet they are within range by now or only slightly elevated.
 
Mitch_310

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My nips are fine. I get a little paranoid over any gyno symptoms. I have a bit of it naturally occurring before I took anything. Although it’s impossible to spot when my nips are hard. It just kind of bugs me sometimes
 
Chados

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Few things. Dmz is definitely a legit steroid and there's no Sarm that's gonna come close. My guess is that what you got is not sarms but some aas or mix of compounds. There's a study on ncbi showing 40 or so % of all sarms sold are fake.

The other thing is the shutdown and the toxicity should not come close to steroids. I see this all the time on forums and it just goes against science and studies.

Could science be wrong? For sure but it would be ignorant to believe it is when that's arguably the most proof we have. Now long term sides of sarms are much more debatable.

Last thing is that you had a massive stack of sarms and at some point they will do more damage than intended and also cause shutdown. I'm saying massive due to the fact that sarms aren't supposed to be used as muscle builders but more to preserve muscles. It's supposed to be a safe alternative to aas and while a stack of sarms will be safer than a stack of aas you're not supposed to stack then like this.
 
Mitch_310

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Few things. Dmz is definitely a legit steroid and there's no Sarm that's gonna come close. My guess is that what you got is not sarms but some aas or mix of compounds. There's a study on ncbi showing 40 or so % of all sarms sold are fake.

The other thing is the shutdown and the toxicity should not come close to steroids. I see this all the time on forums and it just goes against science and studies.

Could science be wrong? For sure but it would be ignorant to believe it is when that's arguably the most proof we have. Now long term sides of sarms are much more debatable.

Last thing is that you had a massive stack of sarms and at some point they will do more damage than intended and also cause shutdown. I'm saying massive due to the fact that sarms aren't supposed to be used as muscle builders but more to preserve muscles. It's supposed to be a safe alternative to aas and while a stack of sarms will be safer than a stack of aas you're not supposed to stack then like this.
First off. I did take dmz and the size gains were much for drastic then sarms. But the way the sarms made me look was much better if that makes any sense. Second I know I got legit sarms. And third, yeah I took way too many of them haha. We’ll see what bloods do. So far I pretty much feel normal again. I can tell I’m not 100% yet but I know that I am bouncing back. Bloods will confirm this though. The shutdown wasn’t nearly as bad as dmz which put me at 0 for pretty much everything hormonally.
 

Borashi

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It's crazy though how you look on cycle with SARMs vs. off cycle. The mental part from the attention is addictive. Makes you want to hop right into another cycle. This is where discipline and patience prevails. Just have to keep my head down and grind, wait the proper time to begin my next cycle.
 
Chados

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First off. I did take dmz and the size gains were much for drastic then sarms. But the way the sarms made me look was much better if that makes any sense. Second I know I got legit sarms. And third, yeah I took way too many of them haha. We’ll see what bloods do. So far I pretty much feel normal again. I can tell I’m not 100% yet but I know that I am bouncing back. Bloods will confirm this though. The shutdown wasn’t nearly as bad as dmz which put me at 0 for pretty much everything hormonally.
Yeah arguably running especially lgd which I believe is the Sarm with most shutdown (don't take my words on this) for 3 months would shut you down more than a 4 week dmz cycle. I think it's possible that you'll shut down easier with more cycles too especially if you never bounced back 100% which can take months. There are many factors here for sure and as you said the stack was quite big not to mention that everything has to do with dosage.

As far as physique you might go from 170 to 180lbs on dmz and drop down to 176.. The next cycle you go to 185 and stay at 180 etc. You must have had more muscles to begin with before this cycle if they makes sense. Basically you should look better after the sarms ��
 

Borashi

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What would a beginner DMZ cycle look like? 30 mgs a day for 4 weeks? Also what about running a Serm while on DMZ cycle? Any point to that?
 
Chados

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What would a beginner DMZ cycle look like? 30 mgs a day for 4 weeks? Also what about runner ng a seen while in DMZ cycle? Any point to that?
Running a serm you mean? Yeah that could arguably help With hpta. I believe that's a decent dosage yes but maybe AnabolicGuru can chime in since he's running it now
 

Borashi

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I mean run a Serm on cycle to prevent hpta shutdown and gyno issues.
 
Old Witch

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A beginner cycle of DMZ would be 30mg 4 wks, and you could take 30mg toremifene as well if you wanted. No idea if that will save your nuts, I didn't even get shutdown from it. Not any time using DMZ or Superdrol shut me down. That's not normal, from what I'm told. The only time I got noticeably shut down in my life was trying to run M-1T and dianabol together.
 
Jinsun

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I mean run a Serm on cycle to prevent hpta shutdown and gyno issues.
This most likely wont help with aas dosages that would produce meaningful gains. Probably does help with offsetting shuttdown, but that's it.
 

Slapoyjoe

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The dosage was far too high.

The letro likely crushed your E, and that might be one reason you felt so poorly.

Also, the gyno is not from the SARMS.

Can I ask why you designed your protocol like this?
 
Mitch_310

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The dosage was far too high.

The letro likely crushed your E, and that might be one reason you felt so poorly.

Also, the gyno is not from the SARMS.

Can I ask why you designed your protocol like this?
Actually I didn’t start to take letro until my nipples started to hurt around week 4 after the cycle. hopped on a small dose and I’ve felt better since. Sarms can cause gyno in some people. Especially since I have a tad bit of it pre existing naturally. It can flare up at times. I’m starting to bounce back now and feel like my old self. No issues In libido nor mood anymore. Balls feel nice and plump. And my strength and weight is still holding good. (Actually have made progress in almost all lifts. Except for pushing movements). I’d say walking away after everything settled down I kept pretty much all the muscle I had gained. I had to sacrifice being really lean to keep it though. Bloods will FOR SURE be drawn tomorrow. Next cycle will be at least a few months after I get to baseline. Planning on only running s4 and maybe a very low dose rad for only 6-8 weeks. That way coming off won’t be as crappy. I did walk away from the cycle though with big improvements to my physique. So overall I don’t regret it. Just regret pushing the cycle length and the dosages. Just wanted to make the post on saying you don’t need vey high dosages or lengths to make the same amount of progress
 
Chados

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From my understanding it's possible getting gyno on sarms but that's mostly on high dosages and longer runs and also which Sarm were talking about. It's so highly unlikely that it's almost impossible running only say an S4 cycle at 50mg. Some people are more sensitive for sure so why not?
 
Mitch_310

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Here is the current physique. Lost my tan I had when I was on. I still think I look pretty decent. I want to add some more quality size on my frame naturally before I decide to cut down or run another cycle again. I know all the actual muscle I put on Is still there. But that look the sarms gave me feels like I lost 5lbs of muscle in my upper chest and shoulders lol. Prob gained around maybe a pound or 2 at most of fat over these past 6-7 weeks of being off. But still relatively lean none the less.

I’m more concerned now with keeping my strength and diet up. Which I’m currently doing as of right now. It’ll be a nice change of pace to see what I can accomplish naturally in these upcoming months.
IMG_3772.JPG
 
Chados

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Here is the current physique. Lost my tan I had when I was on. I still think I look pretty decent. I want to add some more quality size on my frame naturally before I decide to cut down or run another cycle again. I know all the actual muscle I put on Is still there. But that look the sarms gave me feels like I lost 5lbs of muscle in my upper chest and shoulders lol. Prob gained around maybe a pound or 2 at most of fat over these past 6-7 weeks of being off. But still relatively lean none the less.

I’m more concerned now with keeping my strength and diet up. Which I’m currently doing as of right now. It’ll be a nice change of pace to see what I can accomplish naturally in these upcoming months. View attachment 173219
Looking good dawg what's your weight at? You should focus on gaining slowly, a lot of people have problem reaching the physique you have now. Don't **** up the abs I did it and it took me forever to get them back lol. I personally love going high fat low carb.. Just make sure you keep protein intake normal. It's easier for me to stay lean that way and I'd argue that's easier for most people. I'm asking your weight cause you don't look super heavy which means following a diet will be quite simple bit having to eat a ton.
 

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I almost bought into the hype of "no sides" and did a run of lgd. Glad I didn't. This just shows everything comes with a price.
 
Mitch_310

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look at the studies they did on it. pretty decent suppression at 1mg Ed for only 21 days. With the good comes the bad.
 
Mitch_310

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im about 170lbs today, I was pretty full of water in that pic. but still I would say sitting anywhere around 9-10 bf at 5'9. Im eating around 100-300 above my TDEE for the day. Once my hormones are back to normal I might throw in a mini cut.
 
jameschoi

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How long can you maintain that look off cycle.
 
Chados

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im about 170lbs today, I was pretty full of water in that pic. but still I would say sitting anywhere around 9-10 bf at 5'9. Im eating around 100-300 above my TDEE for the day. Once my hormones are back to normal I might throw in a mini cut.
Alright well I'd definitely try a more fat based diet during a cut. I think it'd be easy for you to fill in the calories and since you're so lean you'd notice quite fast if it's going wrong. But hey don't listen to me, if it works don't change it they say.
 

Borashi

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The only thing I'll say about SARMs is being suppressed which they'll do is completely different than being shutdown. I never got shutdown on my cycle and raging boners entire cycle. It's all about how to design your cycle protocol safely.
 
Old Witch

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The good thing about SARMS, and I will say this over and over, is they do not activate the androgen receptors in any of the dangerous areas of the body. They do not attach to organ tissues. Unfortunately the reason the ones we use were scrapped is they bind to testes and brain.

If they could make a SARM that does not touch the brain or testes then they would have their winner. It would be unsuppressive.
 
Mitch_310

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which look are we talking about? the pic I posted or the dry and shredded look the drugs give? when I was on. my shoulders and chest felt like rocks and were extremely full, at the same time I held no water on my waist and my abs were cut like granite. Once I got off, that look was maintained until the drugs left my system, so maybe about 3-7 days at most. After that, you will see what you can actually walk away with. You still will look good. But that illusion and fullness of muscle that the drugs take away looks like 3-5lbs of muscle. hope that helps
 
Mitch_310

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Another note I'd like to add. Im finally killing this mild gyno I got from dmz and 4ad last year with letro. Only a few days in and my lumps are fading away. puffiness is gone. Feeling a little bit of low estro sides but I want to kill this gyno before I move on. 1.25mg ed of letro. Gonna stay on till thats gone. then oh so slowly taper off then hit an otc anti e for rebound. Other than that I feel pretty good. Strength and volume is up and still looking shredded. so not all that being off for a solid amount of time now. Although I'm not that big, so keeping this muscle mass hasn't been too hard since I still have room to progress naturally. Although I do think I'm somewhat close to my natty limit. maybe 10lbs more of muscle at this bf would be my max
 

Borashi

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Yeah. Id agree that you can keep most of your gains off a SARMs cycle as long as you keep diet/training in check. I'm still weighing in around 182. So I've maintained most of my gains. Just not the grainy sandpaper look that I had on cycle. In terms of side affects, all that can be managed as long as you've planned ahead. (Anticipating what could happen, having a Serm on hand, a.i., exemestane.)
 
Jinsun

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Killing your gyno with letro: crushing your estrogen, is not a good way to go around it. For gyno you should use a serm, namely ralox. That will be far stronger and will reverse it a lot more then just simply crushing your estrogen.
 
Mitch_310

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Killing your gyno with letro: crushing your estrogen, is not a good way to go around it. For gyno you should use a serm, namely ralox. That will be far stronger and will reverse it a lot more then just simply crushing your estrogen.
Didn’t have any on hand when I started getting sides. Plus, I want it gone right now. Letro is all I had. I will most likely follow up with a serm for rebound after I’m done running letro
 
Mitch_310

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Alright some updates: got my blood work set for next Wednesday. I asked some friends of Mine about my gyno. They said I look totally normal and they can’t see anything. It’s only bothering me in one nipple. Also happens to be the one I constantly touch so I might just be tweaking for no reason. Anyways. Bodyfat is still considerably low, not really show contest anymore (6-8%)but a definite beach lean (8-10%). Weight is actually up a bit now. Only by 3 pounds since ending the cycle about 7 weeks ago. I don’t know if it’s all fat since my all my abs are clearly visible still and I have ab veins. So maybe I’m gaining muscle? Strength is up a tad. (Except for my chest movements)

On another note. I do notice my balls increased in size pretty drastically. Didn’t really notice that they shrunk until now since they are considerably bigger. I’m no longer feeling depressed anymore. Have a good sense of well being. I don’t know about my libido. I guess it’s good, I don’t really pay attention to it. But I have no problems functioning. Let’s see... that’s pretty much it. I feel normal again pretty much. Appetite is a lot lower and I can put on bodyfat now if I ate like I did on cycle. (Lgd made me a food vaccum, none the less my Caloric Intake is still pretty high and I’m eating adequate amounts of protein) anyways.. I’ll post blood results sometime either this week or next week and let everyone know how the recovery is going.
 

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