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The Official OL UK Ghar1ne Q&A

crowbar46 said:
I understand exactly what you mean about eating before bed--I have a shake and a small amount of solid food, no carbs. So, I allow 5 hours between my last two meals. At 4 1/2 hours I take my Gharine, then 1/2 Hr. later I have my shake and mini meal. So, I take the Gharine on as empty of a stomach as possible. I make sure that I allow my blood sugar levels to fall, as the effectiveness of some GH stimulators are reduced by high blood sugar levels--I have no idea if this applies to Gharine, but why take the chance especially since it fits into my goals (fat loss).
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I'll probably do something similar, take the dose - wait half an hour - then eat and go to bed
 
crowbar46 said:
I'd be Interested to know how it works for you. Also, you could take the Gharine post training, wait 1/2 Hr., eat, then go to bed.
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Interesting idea... I have a couple of things before so it won't be a while. I will be sure to provide some feedback when I do run it though.
 
UPDATE:

1) sleep continues to be excellent since dropping the huperzine; deep and restful. Another benefit of dropping the huperzine is that I don't feel anxious anymore( it caused this in my wife also). Also, I had noticed that my blood pressure--especially my morning blood pressure--was trending upward after starting the Gharine. I had assumed that it was water retention from the Gharine, but after dropping the huperzine it has gone back down.

2) although it's impossible to know the relative contributions of both the Gharine and the Cardarine with certainty in my results, I'm of the opinion that the Gharine may be the more significant factor in the equation in terms of leaning out, muscle fullness, vascularity, etc. Gharine certainly is a drug you can feel working, and I think sleep and recovery are underappreciated aspects of training--especially when you're younger.

3) the fact that Gharine has been pretty well studied and appears to be both safe and well tolerated even in high doses, can be ran continuously for extended periods of time, and seems, in many respects, to produce better results the longer one uses it, certainly makes it the superior choice for body composition shifts over Cardarine.
 
Just wanted to add: I play poker on Wed. nights so I don't get to bed until very late/early. Last night I didn't get home and in bed until 4:00AM. I got 6 Hrs. sleep, but because of the deep sleep from the Gharine I woke today pretty damn fresh. I feel much more rested and alert today than I normally would.
 
crowbar46 said:
Have I told you how much I Iove OL?!

1) I had really bad acne on my back as a teen which never completely cleared up. I still have small blemishes and bumps, etc. on my back. Well, yesterday my wife told me how nice my back was looking, how smooth and clear my skin was.

2) the skin on my face is fuller, plumper and more "rubbery". My skin tone is smother and more youthful looking.

3) since dropping huperzine sleep is deep and restful, hands tingly. Despite the good intentions, I feel huperzine is a completely unnecessary and, in fact, counterproductive addition to the Gharine.
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why would huperzine seem counterproductive to you? because of the sleep issue?
 
crowbar46 said:
UPDATE:

1) sleep continues to be excellent since dropping the huperzine; deep and restful. Another benefit of dropping the huperzine is that I don't feel anxious anymore( it caused this in my wife also). Also, I had noticed that my blood pressure--especially my morning blood pressure--was trending upward after starting the Gharine. I had assumed that it was water retention from the Gharine, but after dropping the huperzine it has gone back down.

2) although it's impossible to know the relative contributions of both the Gharine and the Cardarine with certainty in my results, I'm of the opinion that the Gharine may be the more significant factor in the equation in terms of leaning out, muscle fullness, vascularity, etc. Gharine certainly is a drug you can feel working, and I think sleep and recovery are underappreciated aspects of training--especially when you're younger.

3) the fact that Gharine has been pretty well studied and appears to be both safe and well tolerated even in high doses, can be ran continuously for extended periods of time, and seems, in many respects, to produce better results the longer one uses it, certainly makes it the superior choice for body composition shifts over Cardarine.
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Ok, you talked me into it. Just ordered some crowbar46
 
crowbar46 said:
That, and anxiety , and increased blood pressure.
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Which I find interesting that you and your wife experienced these side effects, because thus far it has been highly individual. I haven't really heard either in association with the combination, but you do see a few professing poor sleep quality if the Huperzine A is taken closer to bed. I think this is a solid reason why people should monitor themselves and adjust things as needed. Because obviously one-size doesn't fit all when it comes to supplementation. At least you could isolate the issue, I worry some might start it stacked and not take the time to adjust and end up missing out on a good thing with MK-677.
 
Time to leave some of my feed back with Ghar1ne.....

I first started taking 10mg Ghar1ne at night with my LGD dose. Didn't notice too much extra in the sleep department or anything else for that matter. After about 4-5 days in I added 2 caps Dopadex to my Ghar1ne dose. Again only noticed a "harder" sleep, not necessarily deeper.

About a week and a couple days in, I added the 200mcg Hup A to the Ghar1ne and Dopadex. Didnt notice much but on subsequent days I started getting thr hand tingles but not so much benefit in the sleep dept.

Here is where things get interesting. At the two week mark I added in some left over Growth Factor XT from a run I did at the end of last year. Mainly because I was running out of Dopadex. 5 caps pre bed, 200mcg, and 10mg gharine. Since then not only has the sleep has been f'n AMAZING but im getting tingles all day.

Knowing that Growth Factor xt has L dopa and chlorophytum in it, I rechecked the other ingredients. Im thinking the green tea extract is what's responsible for the added tingle (for the reasons explained earlier in this thread) and the 3-OH-Gaba may add to quality of sleep.

The last two days I have 5 caps Growth Factor XT, 200mcg Hup A, and 20mg Ghar1ne. I have been feeling dead tired when finally crawling into bed. Normally without supps, I can sleep 7-10 hrs. But here's the thing. The last two days, I have gotten the best sleep in the universe, but my body has woken up both times after only 6 hrs. I mean I wake up WIDE AWAKE. Where normally I lay around drifting back in and out of sleep. This is after barely getting sleep the nights before. One would think after 3 hrs of rest, a full work day, and heavy legs, I will sleep until the decade is over but after 6 hrs Im literally wide awake with no desire to go back to sleep. Its unreal. I can't say what it is in Growth Factor but it improves the quality of sleep from Ghar1ne tremendously. I think its either the green tea helping with GH or the 3-OH-GABA. Tonight im going to not take the GFXT and see if the sleep is the same on just the 20mg Ghar1ne.

*I have noticed that if I take the Hup A to far out from bed it does keep me up a little. So basically what I have been doing is, as im laying there trying to fall aslp, I dose it right when I start to feel like im nodding off. By the time it kicks in, im out like a light already
 
Good info bro.

Mine should arrive today so I'll be starting sooner than I thought. I have a small arsenal of different bulk powders to try with the Ghar1ne after seeing what it can do on it's own first. Lol
 
mechka_grizli said:
Time to leave some of my feed back with Ghar1ne.....

I first started taking 10mg Ghar1ne at night with my LGD dose. Didn't notice too much extra in the sleep department or anything else for that matter. After about 4-5 days in I added 2 caps Dopadex to my Ghar1ne dose. Again only noticed a "harder" sleep, not necessarily deeper.

About a week and a couple days in, I added the 200mcg Hup A to the Ghar1ne and Dopadex. Didnt notice much but on subsequent days I started getting thr hand tingles but not so much benefit in the sleep dept.

Here is where things get interesting. At the two week mark I added in some left over Growth Factor XT from a run I did at the end of last year. Mainly because I was running out of Dopadex. 5 caps pre bed, 200mcg, and 10mg gharine. Since then not only has the sleep has been f'n AMAZING but im getting tingles all day.

Knowing that Growth Factor xt has L dopa and chlorophytum in it, I rechecked the other ingredients. Im thinking the green tea extract is what's responsible for the added tingle (for the reasons explained earlier in this thread) and the 3-OH-Gaba may add to quality of sleep.

The last two days I have 5 caps Growth Factor XT, 200mcg Hup A, and 20mg Ghar1ne. I have been feeling dead tired when finally crawling into bed. Normally without supps, I can sleep 7-10 hrs. But here's the thing. The last two days, I have gotten the best sleep in the universe, but my body has woken up both times after only 6 hrs. I mean I wake up WIDE AWAKE. Where normally I lay around drifting back in and out of sleep. This is after barely getting sleep the nights before. One would think after 3 hrs of rest, a full work day, and heavy legs, I will sleep until the decade is over but after 6 hrs Im literally wide awake with no desire to go back to sleep. Its unreal. I can't say what it is in Growth Factor but it improves the quality of sleep from Ghar1ne tremendously. I think its either the green tea helping with GH or the 3-OH-GABA. Tonight im going to not take the GFXT and see if the sleep is the same on just the 20mg Ghar1ne.

*I have noticed that if I take the Hup A to far out from bed it does keep me up a little. So basically what I have been doing is, as im laying there trying to fall aslp, I dose it right when I start to feel like im nodding off. By the time it kicks in, im out like a light already
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Interesting, but with so many confounding factors I think It's really l hard to tell exactly what's going on. Gharine, from what I've experienced and read, can take a little while to really kick in. Further, in my opinion, the 10 mg. dose is not that effective--it wasn't for me--but serves as a "break in period" allowing your body to adjust to the increased GH levels. I really only started experiencing significant and consistent results once I went to 20 mg./night.
 
I'm running 10mg for 3 weeks now, going on 4 tomorrow. It's very effective for me at this dose and I had dropped all sleep aids since then. I have left over inhibit p and I add one cap prebed with gharine every night.

Dose is taken with a full meal 1-2hrs prebed.
 
crowbar46 said:
Interesting, but with so many confounding factors I think It's really l hard to tell exactly what's going on. Gharine, from what I've experienced and read, can take a little while to really kick in. Further, in my opinion, the 10 mg. dose is not that effective--it wasn't for me--but serves as a "break in period" allowing your body to adjust to the increased GH levels. I really only started experiencing significant and consistent results once I went to 20 mg./night.
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Technically the only factors that are different are the increase in dosage of Ghar1ne and the addition of GFXT. The GFXT to me is the contributing factor as the quality of sleep was immediate once dosing started. But we will see tonight. I wont dose the GFXT and just go with 20mg Ghar1ne and the Hup A
 
I think it should be good for anyone for sleep, skin, joint and tendon health. Especially those that lift, it should help keep your joints and everything healthy, no matter the age I would assume.
 
Barneyruble said:
Would i benefit from it been only 24?
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Supraphysiological levels of GH and IGF-1 are beneficial to all age groups, and studies have shown that it works at elevating both in healthy young men. I'm 26 myself, plan on picking up a bottle within the month for my PCT. I am prone to poor sleep and waking up feeling unrested. I also have lingering injuries and am prone to aches and pains. Couple that with the fact that I used to be obese, and studies have shown sub-optimal levels of GH/IGF-1 in those who were once obese, even after losing weight... This supplement really addresses a multitude of things for me despite my young age.
 
One day it'll be a staple for everyone. I knw it'll be for me, I'm already planning my yearly budget for this. Next sale I'm stockin up!

Any Laborday sale coming?
 
is there any benefit to adding ecgc (per someones recomendation)or taking it the Ghar1ne with melatonin pre bed as i have read melatonin can play a role in somatostatin
 
ericool007 said:
is there any benefit to adding ecgc (per someones recomendation)or taking it the Ghar1ne with melatonin pre bed as i have read melatonin can play a role in somatostatin
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EGCG and/or Hup-A can potentially enhance the effects of Ghar1ne via inhibition of somatostatin.

A warning on Hup-A....some have had success with it enhancing Ghar1ne whilst others have noticed disturbances in their sleep patterns with this.
 
UPDATE:

1) last Saturday (August 22nd), was night 32 (6 days@ 10 mg., 25 days @ 20 mg.). I went up to 30 mg.

2) Research shows that 10 mg. of melatonin produces strong somatostatin inhibition. This makes much more sense than huperzine pre- bed to me. I added the 10 mg. Melatonin pre-bed with my Gharine last night (TUE., August 25th--4 days @ 30 mg.).

3) I had a zombie like sleep: very deep and rejuvenating! This is the deepest sleep I've had on the Gharine.

4) improved mood, focus, energy, "permanent-pumps", hard muscles, vascularity, and improved recovery continue.

5) lethargy has all but disappeared, but I still get sleepy sometimes at unexpected times.

I honestly consider this to now be a staple supplement for me and I'm looking forward to more long-term benefits/effects (tendon, joint, etc.). The fact that IGF-1 levels continue to rise for at least a straight year is BIG: IGF-1 is associated with increased insulin sensitivity and protein synthesis.

Concerning insulin sensitivity, one study I looked at showed an average increase in fasting glucose from 25mg./night to be 5 mg./DL after 1 year, as well as "decreased insulin sensitivity" ( although the degree of decreased insulin sensitivity was not specified). However, you have to remember this was in an older population not manipulating their diet or weight training. Over time, in fact, the decrease in fat mass and increase in LBM. very likely would out-weigh any adverse effect on insulin sensitivity and fasting glucose levels.
 
crowbar46 said:
UPDATE:

1) last Saturday (August 22nd), was night 32 (6 days@ 10 mg., 25 days @ 20 mg.). I went up to 30 mg.

2) Research shows that 10 mg. of melatonin produces strong somatostatin inhibition. This makes much more sense than huperzine pre- bed to me. I added the 10 mg. Melatonin pre-bed with my Gharine last night (TUE., August 25th--4 days @ 30 mg.).

3) I had a zombie like sleep: very deep and rejuvenating! This is the deepest sleep I've had on the Gharine.

4) improved mood, focus, energy, "permanent-pumps", hard muscles, vascularity, and improved recovery continue.

5) lethargy has all but disappeared, but I still get sleepy sometimes at unexpected times.

I honestly consider this to now be a staple supplement for me and I'm looking forward to more long-term benefits/effects (tendon, joint, etc.). The fact that IGF-1 levels continue to rise for at least a straight year is BIG: IGF-1 is associated with increased insulin sensitivity and protein synthesis.

Concerning insulin sensitivity, one study I looked at showed an average increase in fasting glucose from 25mg./night to be 5 mg./DL after 1 year, as well as "decreased insulin sensitivity" ( although the degree of decreased insulin sensitivity was not specified). However, you have to remember this was in an older population not manipulating their diet or weight training. Over time, in fact, the decrease in fat mass and increase in LBM. very likely would out-weigh any adverse effect on insulin sensitivity and fasting glucose levels.
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The reduction in insulin sensitivity was reversed after a period of 26 weeks I believe (don't have the study in front of me, just remember it did go back to normal).

Also, until someone hits that 26 weeks of being on (or whatever mark), one could look at taking the following for increasing insulin sensitivity:

- fish oil
- chromium
- white bean extract
- DHEA
- vitamin D
- magnesium
- resveratrol
- polyphenols found in cocoa, green tea, etc


My Favorites to Improve Insulin Sensitivity:
- Taurine
- Alpha lipoic acid
- Cinnamon
- Green tea extract
- Fenugreek
 
kboxer7 said:
The reduction in insulin sensitivity was reversed after a period of 26 weeks I believe (don't have the study in front of me, just remember it did go back to normal).

Also, until someone hits that 26 weeks of being on (or whatever mark), one could look at taking the following for increasing insulin sensitivity:

- fish oil
- chromium
- white bean extract
- DHEA
- vitamin D
- magnesium
- resveratrol
- polyphenols found in cocoa, green tea, etc


My Favorites to Improve Insulin Sensitivity:
- Taurine
- Alpha lipoic acid
- Cinnamon
- Green tea extract
- Fenugreek
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Absolutely, there are a ton of insulin sensitizers, GDA's, AMPK activators out there. Its easier to increase sensitivity than it is to trigger consistantly significant increases in GH/IGF-1, so worry regarding insulin resistance shouldn't turn anyone away.
 
I have a ton of recompadrol I plan on working through and starting once I start ghar1ne. Wondering if I should take one cap at night or use some AP prior to fasted training
 
chedapalooza said:
I have a ton of recompadrol I plan on working through and starting once I start ghar1ne. Wondering if I should take one cap at night or use some AP prior to fasted training
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I would say play it by ear, it really depends on individual insulin sensitivity. You may be so fit that added GDAs could make you go a bit hypoglycemic even on MK. Like everything, its highly individual.
 
Auslifter said:
Agmatine + Growth factor xt + Ghar1ne would be a sweet stack
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Past week or so its been

Gharine
5 caps Growth Factor XT
200mcg Hup A
1 cap new formula slintensity

I might switch to using Melatonin instead of Hup A as crowbar has. Not cause Hup A is interrupting my slp. But, I have always had problem falling aslp and the melatonin may help in that department
 
Last couple of nights I've taken 2 Ghar1ne, Mucuna Pruriens, green tea extract, and 5-htp and my sleep has been really good. Appetite is through the roof too!
 
digitalpimp said:
Last couple of nights I've taken 2 Ghar1ne, Mucuna Pruriens, green tea extract, and 5-htp and my sleep has been really good. Appetite is through the roof too!
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Any reason why you are using GTE? Because if you aren't using Huperzine-A, there's no point in using it. There's nothing there for it to synergize with, and doesn't have effects on it's own in regards to modulating the effects of Ghar1ne.
 
Sleep continues to be excellent on the Gharine/melatonin combo--very deep. I'm now having slightly numb hands after waking for a number of hours.
 
Hastur said:
Any reason why you are using GTE? Because if you aren't using Huperzine-A, there's no point in using it. There's nothing there for it to synergize with, and doesn't have effects on it's own in regards to modulating the effects of Ghar1ne.
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The green tea extract is to help with the Mucuna Pruriens absorption. I started Huperzine-A this morning so we'll see how it goes
 
crowbar46 said:
Sleep continues to be excellent on the Gharine/melatonin combo--very deep. I'm now having slightly numb hands after waking for a number of hours.
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I've tried melatonin on its own and it's always a hit or miss for me. Half the time I'll sleep great and half the time I can hardly sleep. Wonder if it would be different with Ghar1ne?
 
so i was reading in other places that one should run a 5 on 2days off is anyone else doing that i just got mine in today and i was wondering if thats a viable option also it would save me some money if i want to run this for an extended period of time.
 
GH was significantly elevated over baseline at 2 years continuous use (although it does drop from initial levels), and IGF-1 was continuously elevated over the course of (at least) 1year in a study. So, I'd say a lot of the benefits of a supplement like this are going to be seen in long term consistent use.
 
ericool007 said:
so i was reading in other places that one should run a 5 on 2days off is anyone else doing that i just got mine in today and i was wondering if thats a viable option also it would save me some money if i want to run this for an extended period of time.
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It's not true, it's a rumour... It's best taken daily as it raises IGF-1 and starting/stopping the dose is counterproductive.

Just take it daily and that will yield the best results :)
 
UPDATE:

1) fat loss is not dramatic, but consistent and definitely noticeable on the Gharine/Cardarine.

2) sleep continues to be excellent on the Gharine/melatonin combo.

3) I'm now feeling relief in my joints. I feel more lubricated and fluid (not that I had any particular joint issues but, hey, at 54 and over 30 years training, you do have some issues).
 
crowbar46 said:
UPDATE:

1) fat loss is not dramatic, but consistent and definitely noticeable on the Gharine/Cardarine.

2) sleep continues to be excellent on the Gharine/melatonin combo.

3) I'm now feeling relief in my joints. I feel more lubricated and fluid (not that I had any particular joint issues but, hey, at 54 and over 30 years training, you do have some issues).
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How's your diet like with the fat loss?
 
The only thing that worries me about this is the added water weight. that can be a real deal breaker for me unfortunately and the only side effect that would prevent me from running gahr1ne long term.
 
ericool007 said:
The only thing that worries me about this is the added water weight. that can be a real deal breaker for me unfortunately and the only side effect that would prevent me from running gahr1ne long term.
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It affects everyone differently. Some don't experience it at all whilst others puff up quite a bit. And for some that get it initially, the bloating subsides over time.

There are ways to mediate this though:

a. Start at 10mg for a whole month then ramp up to 20
b. Reduce sodium intake
c. Increase potassium intake
d. Natural diuretics
 
muay thai said:
any recommended natural diuretics?
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Here are a few options:

Astragalus membranaceus Minor- been shown to have diuretic properties with oral ingestion (0.3g/kg) in otherwise healthy persons.

Tribulus terrestris - 3g of the fruits or a water extract increases overall urine volume after 30 days supplementation by around 200mL daily. (also good for COX-2 inhibition if you are on GW/Carder1ne)

Yohimbine - research is subjective on this one

Ashwagandha - slight diuretic effects but nothing spectacular.

Eclipta alba - Urine volume increased by 34%, which is notable

Parsley -
J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Mar;79(3):353-7. Diuretic effect and mechanism of action of parsley. Kreydiyyeh SI1, Usta J.

Caffeine

Celery (though evidence is not overwhelming to say the least)

Cranberry Juice (again, possible but mostly anecdotal evidence)

Green Tea

Magnessium


I'll dig thru some research and see if I can't find some better ones in a bit.
 
kboxer7 said:
Here are a few options:

Astragalus membranaceus Minor- been shown to have diuretic properties with oral ingestion (0.3g/kg) in otherwise healthy persons.

Tribulus terrestris - 3g of the fruits or a water extract increases overall urine volume after 30 days supplementation by around 200mL daily. (also good for COX-2 inhibition if you are on GW/Carder1ne)

Yohimbine - research is subjective on this one

Ashwagandha - slight diuretic effects but nothing spectacular.

Eclipta alba - Urine volume increased by 34%, which is notable

Parsley -
J Ethnopharmacol. 2002 Mar;79(3):353-7. Diuretic effect and mechanism of action of parsley. Kreydiyyeh SI1, Usta J.

Caffeine

Celery (though evidence is not overwhelming to say the least)

Cranberry Juice (again, possible but mostly anecdotal evidence)

Green Tea

Magnessium


I'll dig thru some research and see if I can't find some better ones in a bit.
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what about something to manipulate estrogen such as arimistane, inhibit-e or exotherm? wouldnt that help too with water weight since they tend to dry you out
 
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