The meaning of "shut down"

timogburn

Member
I still have yet to figure out the exact meaning of being shut down by a PH. How do you know that this has happened and what does it result in? As far as I know, i have never been shut down by a PH.
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It does not mean at Zero natural test, or hopefully not ,that can be critically bad, it means at very low levels of natural production.

Speaking just for my experience, the subjective experience of "shut down" is bad lethargy, depression and concentration difficulties, I know it when it happens, I feel like ****, wondering WTF has happened to me?; but I know what's happened.. I'm not sure what the objective measure is, for me it's <400ng/dl, less than 0.5 of my baseline.
 
Libido is tied into E as much as T, "getting it up" is not a good measure of "Shut down".

But being "shut down" , for me, is both a combination of not really feeling like getting any,:sad: that's a low test motivation factor, and also having weak , slow erections. At times like this, I grudingly accept my role as a bottom, and take it like a man. :sick:

JK, never ever.
 
timogburn said:
I still have yet to figure out the exact meaning of being shut down by a PH. How do you know that this has happened and what does it result in? As far as I know, i have never been shut down by a PH.
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Most people may probably never 'feel' like their testosterone production has been reduced/depressed by ph. A common myth is that you have to have problems getting it up - not so.

You can feel quite normal with very very low levels of testosterone.
 
MarcusG said:
Most people may probably never 'feel' like their testosterone production has been reduced/depressed by ph. A common myth is that you have to have problems getting it up - not so.

You can feel quite normal with very very low levels of testosterone.
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Not me brother, I feel like a weak and weepy girl, I hit the wall of low test, and run PCT till I get my T level back to a 900 norm level.

I would agree that the "feel" of it, for someone maybe less experienced with anabolic highs and lows, like me, is not a reliable gauge of test levels.
 
I have to agree with Marcus.. most of us will not feel it.. you might know something does seem right but unless you are really good at guessing what is going on or doing a good bit of reading, you might not put 2 and 2 together.. just my .02 on the subject
 
From my experience, you won't know if your shut down. You might have other symptoms from PH/PS...but shut down meaning that your natural test production is next to nothing, because of the mega amounts of un-natural test floating aroung in your body (because of PH/PS). Natural testosterone production is refered to as HPTA.
 
Rogue Drone said:
Not me brother, I feel like a weak and weepy girl, I hit the wall of low test, and run PCT till I get my T level back to a 900 norm level.

I would agree that the "feel" of it, for someone maybe less experienced with anabolic highs and lows, like me, is not a reliable gauge of test levels.
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The 20week study by Bhassin et al showed insignificant differences in mood/sex etc in normal men with only 50mg test/week (while having their natural hormones totally depressed). Only one man reported decreased ability.
 
I must be that one man. The one who's both sensitive to his mental , emotional and physical states from long experience, and who has learned to associate cause and effect, the **** feeling confirmed with bloodtests done on a regular basis. I know what I experience, the hard numbers confirm it, and if you don't know, do I care?
 
I definitely "feel" it. My libido drops and I can put on weight (fat) much easier. I have to refrain from watching "Beaches" unless I have a bowl of popcorn in my lap so that I can say that I accidentally got some salt in my eye LOL
 
Just curious, why do longer cycles lead to longer suppression? After you stop using should'nt HPTA return to normal in a period of time, regardless of the length of your cycle?

Or is the premise of my first question incorrect?

Sorry for my ignorance.
 
The longer the cycle the longer you go without producing your own natural test. If you're on cycle for 16 weeks you're going to need a longer time or other ancillaries (hcg) to get your boys back in order and working on their own again.
 
kmac6225 said:
The longer the cycle the longer you go without producing your own natural test. If you're on cycle for 16 weeks you're going to need a longer time or other ancillaries (hcg) to get your boys back in order and working on their own again.
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So you basically need shorter PCT for short cycles, and longer PCt for long cycles?
 
Correct, generally something in the neighborhood of time off = time on, and depending on what you've been doing prior to the cycle, time off might need to equal 2x time on.
 
well the standard for PCT is 4 weeks...some longer cycles w/ multiple androgens require longer and more detailed PCT.

don't get time off confused w/ PCT though. you can do a 12 week cycle and certainly not need 12 weeks of PCT
 
Rogue Drone said:
At times like this, I grudingly accept my role as a bottom, and take it like a man. :sick:

JK, never ever.
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SJA said:
I have to refrain from watching "Beaches" unless I have a bowl of popcorn in my lap so that I can say that I accidentally got some salt in my eye LOL
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you guys crack me up.

most of the info here is solid....and the consensus is that there really isnt a consensus on "shutdown symptoms" or recovery time for a given cycle.

think of this: M1T is the most suppressive legal substance. 1-T is suppressive also, but not as much. HOWEVER, lethargy is common to virtually EVERY 1-T cycle, whereas fewer people get lethargic on M1T. libido is the same: on 1-ad/4-ad i am shut down hard but horny as all hell. there is no linear relationship for either of these symptoms. i reckon mood is the same; there are intrinsic effects from certain PH that can negate or inflate shutdown effects.

sort of to the contrary, i would bet that if a person's test was reduced significantly by some compound that had no androgenic effects (the testosterone equivalent of nolva!), they would experience moodiness, lethargy and loss of libido.

sorry for the absolute lack of conclusive evidence.
 
well I was doing fine and dandy this cycle but the gap between my last shot and pct my boys shrank like a mofo hcg seemed to help a little I started my pct today I cant wait to get my nuts back.
My mood is fine but having small nuts does weird things to my psyce
 
kmac6225 said:
The longer the cycle the longer you go without producing your own natural test. If you're on cycle for 16 weeks you're going to need a longer time or other ancillaries (hcg) to get your boys back in order and working on their own again.
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I believe that the max duration of a cycle (excluding TOO suppressive stuff like m1t) should be 8 weeks WITHOUT using HCG, followed by 5 weeks proper PCT (nolva + natural test boosters).
Am I correct?
 
THEBRAKES said:
on 1-ad/4-ad i am shut down hard but horny as all hell
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What type of dosage/method do you use for a 1-AD/4-AD cycle? I'm interested in using these products and would prefer not to have a "shut down" of sex drive if I can help it. (The wife doesn't like me using these things anyway.)
 
Syr said:
I believe that the max duration of a cycle (excluding TOO suppressive stuff like m1t) should be 8 weeks WITHOUT using HCG, followed by 5 weeks proper PCT (nolva + natural test boosters).
Am I correct?
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SYR - i reckon he is referring to AAS cycles (which actually usually only go for 12 weeks, but 16 isnt unheard of)

shootmeagain - 1ad/4ad @ 300/600 then 600/900, the latter really got me randy and i wasnt even on trib. run an AI if you want to keep the bloat off.
 
THEBRAKES said:
you guys crack me up.


think of this: M1T is the most suppressive legal substance. 1-T is suppressive also, but not as much. HOWEVER, lethargy is common to virtually EVERY 1-T cycle, whereas fewer people get lethargic on M1T. libido is the same: on 1-ad/4-ad i am shut down hard but horny as all hell. there is no linear relationship for either of these symptoms. i reckon mood is the same; there are intrinsic effects from certain PH that can negate or inflate shutdown effects.
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Actully that different from what I have heard about M1t, and from personal experince with both substances, I found m1t to be much more lethargic.
 
THEBRAKES said:
SYR - i reckon he is referring to AAS cycles (which actually usually only go for 12 weeks, but 16 isnt unheard of)
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Yes, i know he is referring to AAS, but I think 1-Test and M1T are very suppressive.
And i'm going to run my cycle for 8 weeks, if everything goes as it should:
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Thats why i'm interested on his educated opinion about the need of HCG.
 
THEBRAKES said:
SYR - i reckon he is referring to AAS cycles (which actually usually only go for 12 weeks, but 16 isnt unheard of)

shootmeagain - 1ad/4ad @ 300/600 then 600/900, the latter really got me randy and i wasnt even on trib. run an AI if you want to keep the bloat off.
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8 week cycles are very effective with the right compounds, AAS included. hell, jminis has great success with 4 week cycle using base compounds (something i'll be trying in about a month or so).
 
when i run m1t i also run 4ad with it which eliminates any lehtargy for me....it also keeps the libido healthy.. :thumbsup:

I start pct during the last week of my cycle and it keeps the emotions a little more consistent.

The most noticeable thing for me is my nads shrink some...but the boys come back with pct and proper time off cycle... :D
 
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