The Game Changers

[MadStax]

Just watched this on Netflix. Has anyone seen this? Thoughts? I'm intrigued!

 

[Rebuild]

It's a giant crock of sh!t

 

[MadStax]

It's a giant crock of sh!t

Any explanation? I'm definitely going to do some investigation of my own, but would appreciate your thoughts!

 

[cheftepesh1]

Any explanation? I'm definitely going to do some investigation of my own, but would appreciate your thoughts!

Personally, I think having some vegan options isn’t bad, but full vegan is not always the best. Depends on the person.

 

[MadStax]

Personally, I think having some vegan options isn’t bad, but full vegan is not always the best. Depends on the person.

I already get nearly all of my calories from raw whole plant foods, but still eat meat and dairy derived protein with every meal. When I finish this cycle, I may try slowly cutting those sources out.

 

[Rebuild]

Any explanation? I'm definitely going to do some investigation of my own, but would appreciate your thoughts!

My biggest problem with a vegan diet is that it leads to quite a few deficiencies: vitamins A, D, E, B12, choline, taurine, creatine, carnosine, DHA and EPA (ALA isnt good enough). You could supplement all those I guess, but then there are also long term psychological issues that present themselves. Anecdotally quite a few celebrities who were huge proponents of veganism quit because overtime they became fatigued and depressed. There have also been studies that correlate vegan/vegetarianism with lower IQ: https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20200127-how-a-vegan-diet-could-affect-your-intelligence

There is also the problem of protein digestibility, where all vegetarian protein sources are at about 60%, so to get the equivalent of 300 grams of protein a day, you would have to eat 500 grams of protein from chalky protein shakes, soy filled tofu, and bloating beans. Not very realistic.

 

[Rebuild]

Here is a write up by Layne Norton debunking most of the claims in The Game Changers:

The Game Changers Review - A Scientific Analysis (Updated)

Updated on November 20th, 2019 at 6:17pm EST Fixed pdf reference link A clarification regarding energy emissions as opposed to merely transportation

www.biolayne.com

 

[BloodManor]

Every single claim has been debunked by science already.
plus look into who funded the movie

 

[Nac]

Ill admit, I gave vegan a try after seeing the film, didnt last long though. Too much fibre trying to hit my macros, fukt my gut up. Couldnt adapt to it.

Im with Layne. Go with the diet that suits your goals, but Exclusionist diets are not "better" than Moderation.

Also a turn off for me, at least intellectually: lots of Exclusionists are worse than religious zealots.

 

[Whisky]

I actually think that documentary was so obviously biased it harmed the vegan movement. It was so easy to debunk.

they scoured the planet to find ‘elite’ sports people who were vegan yet none of them were truly elite and it doesn’t explain why the other 99% of non vegan elite athletes do so well then....(and if I recall that weightlifter has actually been on the decline for the past few years

there’s always going to be outliers but claiming that because a couple of sports people do ok on a vegan diet means all sports people should do it is the equivalent of finding a smoker who lives to 100 and claiming smoking is the secret

the grass ‘cutting out the cow middle man’ story was hilarious. Totally ignoring the processes that happen within the cow to create an entirely different product.

I’m not a fan of any diet where you have to supplement to give your body what it needs, that doesn’t seem right.

being vegan isn’t inherently healthy, the reason vegans have better health markers vs non vegans is simply that vegans tend to be more health conscious as a demographic (less likely to smoke, drink excessively, eat processed food etc) compared to non vegans which includes all the obese junk food eating fucks that clog up the hospitals.

compare vegan health markets to a non vegan gym going demographic (ie non vegans but who give a **** about there health) and the story changes dramatically.

 

[thebigt]

Ill admit, I gave vegan a try after seeing the film, didnt last long though. Too much fibre trying to hit my macros, fukt my gut up. Couldnt adapt to it.

Im with Layne. Go with the diet that suits your goals, but Exclusionist diets are not "better" than Moderation.

Also a turn off for me, at least intellectually: lots of Exclusionists are worse than religious zealots.

here, here...i don't just eat for sustenance, i enjoy good food that tastes good to me. my thinking is to eat what i want-in moderation.

btw-i put in a lot of miles regularly to be able to enjoy my 'comfort' foods, to me it's a nice tradeoff...if i were a professional athlete whose earnings depended on absolute peak performance that would be a 'game changer' for me, lol.

 

[Hyde]

I already get nearly all of my calories from raw whole plant foods, but still eat meat and dairy derived protein with every meal. When I finish this cycle, I may try slowly cutting those sources out.

What whole plant foods are those? What is a typical daily calorie total for you, and about how much protein?

You have to worry about deficiencies but obviously supplements can fix that largely. So it comes down to how you feel. If you can get the nutrients you need for your goals, and you can digest the food reasonably, it can work for someone.

I don’t really think anyone can be as big as absolutely possible on a vegan diet because the digestability and lack of caloric density means it isn’t going to support athletes like top open strongmen competitors or IFBB pros, but that’s an extremely small niche of already niche sports. If you want to be absolutely as big as you physiologically can get, you will need animal products. There are NO vegans at the very top of those sports, for example.

But you can be good, if it works for you. We know of some very talented athletes in all genres who are vegan, including the above mentioned. If you just wanna be 220 and jacked and shredded you could absolutely be a vegan and do it choosing the right food and PEDs for you.

Also, if it’s an ethical thing as far as heavily reducing your environmental impact, you could be one of those vegetarians that also consume sustainably farmed/sourced fish and eggs. That would be a massive nutritional upgrade while remaining way more eco-conscious than the way most people eat. Huge carbon footprint reduction.

 

[MadStax]

What whole plant foods are those? What is a typical daily calorie total for you, and about how much protein?

You have to worry about deficiencies but obviously supplements can fix that largely. So it comes down to how you feel. If you can get the nutrients you need for your goals, and you can digest the food reasonably, it can work for someone.

I don’t really think anyone can be as big as absolutely possible on a vegan diet because the digestability and lack of caloric density means it isn’t going to support athletes like top open strongmen competitors or IFBB pros, but that’s an extremely small niche of already niche sports. If you want to be absolutely as big as you physiologically can get, you will need animal products. There are NO vegans at the very top of those sports, for example.

But you can be good, if it works for you. We know of some very talented athletes in all genres who are vegan, including the above mentioned. If you just wanna be 220 and jacked and shredded you could absolutely be a vegan and do it choosing the right food and PEDs for you.

Also, if it’s an ethical thing as far as heavily reducing your environmental impact, you could be one of those vegetarians that also consume sustainably farmed/sourced fish and eggs. That would be a massive nutritional upgrade while remaining way more eco-conscious than the way most people eat. Huge carbon footprint reduction.

I don't think I could ever give up meat entirely. That's not my goal. I have recently felt like my meat/animal product consumption is ridiculously high! I also have concerns for the impact it has on my health.

I'm eating 4-5,000 calories per day on cycle. 2,500 on a cut and 3,500 maintenance. Give or take. 200 grams of protein per day no matter the calorie count and as little fat as possible. I adjust carbs accordingly.

I'm very mindful of what goes into my body, which is why this appealed to me. I appreciate all of the shared experience and educated replies!

 

[jmero2]

 

[MadStax]

Sorry, I forgot to answer your initial question, @Hyde

My diet usually looks something like:

Protein shake first thing in the morning.
Plain oatmeal, banana, and nuts or yogurt with granola and a banana for second breakfast/pre-training. (I strongly believe that a banana eaten before hitting the gym makes a huge difference for me).
Chicken breast, turkey, or fish and a carb like rice or sweet potato for lunch, second lunch, and dinner.

I eat fresh fruit and fresh vegetables with each meal and as snacks. I'll occasionally add another shake or two of I need to make up protein. I eat sashimi frequently, but corona has made that harder to find. I'll use frozen veg in the dead of winter when it's hard to find fresh.

 

[Hyde]

Sorry, I forgot to answer your initial question, @Hyde

My diet usually looks something like:

Protein shake first thing in the morning.
Plain oatmeal, banana, and nuts or yogurt with granola and a banana for second breakfast/pre-training. (I strongly believe that a banana eaten before hitting the gym makes a huge difference for me).
Chicken breast, turkey, or fish and a carb like rice or sweet potato for lunch, second lunch, and dinner.

I eat fresh fruit and fresh vegetables with each meal and as snacks. I'll occasionally add another shake or two of I need to make up protein. I eat sashimi frequently, but corona has made that harder to find. I'll use frozen veg in the dead of winter when it's hard to find fresh.

Frozen vegetables, being flash-frozen at the height nutritional value after harvesting, are actually more nutritious than fresh, which have to spend time to be transported before you can consume. The only superiority of fresh is flavor/texture, or nutritionally if you can pick them immediately locally at a true farmer’s market.

3x8oz portions of chicken/Turkey/fish a day doesn’t seem that crazy to me as far as meat consumption honestly. I figured you were talking 3+lbs the way you sounded at first lol

 

[MadStax]

Frozen vegetables, being flash-frozen at the height nutritional value after harvesting, are actually more nutritious than fresh, which have to spend time to be transported before you can consume. The only superiority of fresh is flavor/texture, or nutritionally if you can pick them immediately locally at a true farmer’s market.

3x8oz portions of chicken/Turkey/fish a day doesn’t seem that crazy to me as far as meat consumption honestly. I figured you were talking 3+lbs the way you sounded at first lol

I prefer to eat fruit and veg without cooking it or altering it in any way. I appreciate the taste of it just as it is. Thawed frozen just isn't the same, so needs to be blanched/steamed at least.

It's probably more like two pounds of meat per day, plus the shakes and yogurt. I'm only 195 lbs, so I'm sure it has some impact on my health in the long run. However, PEDs are probably much worse!

 

[Hyde]

I prefer to eat fruit and veg without cooking it or altering it in any way. I appreciate the taste of it just as it is. Thawed frozen just isn't the same, so needs to be blanched/steamed at least.

It's probably more like two pounds of meat per day, plus the shakes and yogurt. I'm only 195 lbs, so I'm sure it has some impact on my health in the long run. However, PEDs are probably much worse!

I think that movie is drastically overplaying health ramifications of animal consumption. If heart disease & cancer is such an issue, why is the average life expectancy still so high? I don’t think it takes a genius to see a correlation between the typical modern American diet and heart & metabolic disease. And what essentially is at the core of causation for those? Sugar and processed vegetable & peanut oils, in most items on a daily basis.

The problem doesn’t necessarily seem to even be with dietary cholesterol intake. In America, self-reported (READ: not controlled clinical tests) surveys that reported the highest red meat consumption were correlated with the greatest mortality rates. But at the same time, those surveys in Japan showed those who ate the most red meat were the longest living members of society! Possibly because they aren’t eating sugar cereals for breakfast, McDonald’s for lunch, and frozen dinners or meals at restaurants cooked in soybean/canola/peanut oil along with hydrogenated oil-based dressings and generally more calories than they actually are burning?

I’m going off on a tangent, and veganism is absolutely a lifestyle people can make work, but I just want to remind you that that movie has a real agenda - and people with agendas tend to only present supporting evidence, not the whole picture. Meat production is bad for the environment, overall, but our ancestors have been eating meat for thousands of years and we have only evolved to live longer and have larger brains over time as meat consumption rose. I do not believe it is a health concern.

 

[Whisky]

I prefer to eat fruit and veg without cooking it or altering it in any way. I appreciate the taste of it just as it is. Thawed frozen just isn't the same, so needs to be blanched/steamed at least.

It's probably more like two pounds of meat per day, plus the shakes and yogurt. I'm only 195 lbs, so I'm sure it has some impact on my health in the long run. However, PEDs are probably much worse!

hows your gut eating veg that way bro?

whilst on paper eating veg straight from the ground with no cooking etc seems like a healthier idea it’s actually not (affects some people worse than others)

the preparation (be it sprouting, soaking or cooking) is essential to deal with lectins, oxalates, phytates etc

they are basic plant defence mechanisms which need to be disabled/mitigated to allow us to access the hugely beneficial components of the plants without the negative side effects. Honestly it’s worth looking into bro.

 

[Danksta710]

Ewww Vegans.

 

[MadStax]

Ewww Vegans.

 

[Danksta710]

 

[Hyde]

hows your gut eating veg that way bro?

whilst on paper eating veg straight from the ground with no cooking etc seems like a healthier idea it’s actually not (affects some people worse than others)

the preparation (be it sprouting, soaking or cooking) is essential to deal with lectins, oxalates, phytates etc

they are basic plant defence mechanisms which need to be disabled/mitigated to allow us to access the hugely beneficial components of the plants without the negative side effects. Honestly it’s worth looking into bro.

Now I’m craving Ezekiel toast w/ avocado...

 

[Hyde]

hows your gut eating veg that way bro?

whilst on paper eating veg straight from the ground with no cooking etc seems like a healthier idea it’s actually not (affects some people worse than others)

the preparation (be it sprouting, soaking or cooking) is essential to deal with lectins, oxalates, phytates etc

they are basic plant defence mechanisms which need to be disabled/mitigated to allow us to access the hugely beneficial components of the plants without the negative side effects. Honestly it’s worth looking into bro.

Now I’m craving Ezekiel toast w/ avocado...