The Definitive guide to Post Cycle Therapy (PCT)

qwerty33 said:
can you post links of threads that discuss epi gyno and sides?

logs would be sweet
Click to expand...
I didnt mean it will cause gyno, I know that everything Ive read has 'gyno' this or that in it, either its good at taking away gyno or it'll give you gyno, but what if you don't have gyno? What makes me want to do Epi is the gains I read that people get from it. Sorry, didn't mean to say the wrong thing
this is the log Im reading and like it,
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I confused Epi with causing gyno and getting rid of gyno, it takes gyno away, now what if you dont have gyno?
 
torem vs clomi. Is torem just as toxic/carcinogenic as clomid?

i am on week 2 of the trs and i used clomid at 25mg only 7 days and my boys are back in swing.

i should be find for my bloodwork at wk 3 even tho clomid is lil liver toxic?
 
medicone said:
I have another question. What would you run your nolva at coming off a test e cycle. No hcg and wish that I had it. But could not get a hold of it. I'm coming off a 4 month cycle of test e ran at 500mg/wk. So should I run clomid as planned with nolva?
planning to run it like this
300mg-first day for clomid to get blood levels up right away
100/100/50/50
nolva
40/40/20/20
Concur or not. please tell me your thinking. last inject was July 3rd, so I was planning on starting the 15-17, approx 14 days out.
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You really need hCG. I doubt you can fully recovery without it.

You can start 20mg/day of nolva now and do what you can to get some hCG. I wouldnt use the Clomid. The nolva and TRS will be the best choice.

-Eric
 
qwerty33 said:
torem vs clomi. Is torem just as toxic/carcinogenic as clomid?

i am on week 2 of the trs and i used clomid at 25mg only 7 days and my boys are back in swing.

i should be find for my bloodwork at wk 3 even tho clomid is lil liver toxic?
Click to expand...

Toremifene is my perferred choice over Nolva or Clomid... just as effective, but slightly less toxic.

-Eric
 
KgTomCat said:
I confused Epi with causing gyno and getting rid of gyno, it takes gyno away, now what if you dont have gyno?
Click to expand...

If you have alot of estrogen bound up in SHBG then epi may give you problems with gyno by lowering SHBG and freeing up estrogen to do its dirty work.

Some guys have this problem, some dont. It really has nothing to do with having gyno already or not.

-Eric
 
Primordial Perf said:
If you have alot of estrogen bound up in SHBG then epi may give you problems with gyno by lowering SHBG and freeing up estrogen to do its dirty work.

Some guys have this problem, some dont. It really has nothing to do with having gyno already or not.

-Eric
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Ive been making gains like never before, I mixing alot of training principles in one, and keeping it simple...Im not going to use Epi, just Hdrol/Furaguno, and Im trying out Toremifene with PCT, not Nolva
 
any idea when oral sustain alpha will be ready?

also w/ the current one does it matter what time of the day to use it? i norm put it on at night
 
qwerty33 said:
any idea when oral sustain alpha will be ready?

also w/ the current one does it matter what time of the day to use it? i norm put it on at night
Click to expand...

Night time is fine on the Sustain.

Tester bottles of oral Sustain Alpha liquid should be shipping in the next week.

-Eric
 
since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?
 
qwerty33 said:
since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?
Click to expand...
bump


I have the same question but for Toremifene???

:afro:
 
Primordial Perf said:
Vitex at 460mg/day ED throughout the cycle.

Gyno symptoms really hasnt been a problem for most guys though... like less than 10% of the users of 1-T TREN... and so far nobody has had any permanent problems from it.

-Eric
Click to expand...

Id like to build on this Eric. Say I wanted to ensure (well try at least haha) no gyno with other things. You mention Epi can free up some stuff previously bound by SHBG. The other things I had in mind were Anavar and Turinabol. Would Vitex be a good addition to any cycles including these? I mean, if it helps take out the progesterone receptors it cant really hurt anything right?

Also you say 460mg. Any reason for this seemingly random number? Most things I see are like this for example. Look close enough/fine? It seems trivial Im sure but I should ask.

CHASTEBERRY EXTRACT (VITEX AGNUS-CASTUS)(BERRY) STD. TO 0.5% AGNUSIDES 1 MG - 200 Mg
Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-Castus)(Berry) - 300 Mg
 
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Last day to take advantage of this great sale, everyone!!! :(
 
since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?
 
TexasTitan said:
Id like to build on this Eric. Say I wanted to ensure (well try at least haha) no gyno with other things. You mention Epi can free up some stuff previously bound by SHBG. The other things I had in mind were Anavar and Turinabol. Would Vitex be a good addition to any cycles including these? I mean, if it helps take out the progesterone receptors it cant really hurt anything right?

Also you say 460mg. Any reason for this seemingly random number? Most things I see are like this for example. Look close enough/fine? It seems trivial Im sure but I should ask.

CHASTEBERRY EXTRACT (VITEX AGNUS-CASTUS)(BERRY) STD. TO 0.5% AGNUSIDES 1 MG - 200 Mg
Chasteberry (Vitex Agnus-Castus)(Berry) - 300 Mg
Click to expand...

You could run Vitex with those other items. However I think Anavar and Turinabol tend to bind to the AR strong enough to antagonize estrogen action and not be associated with gyno problems. (even though they lower SHBG)

460mg/day is the same amount used in the human study that shows a reduction in prolactin. (different than progesterone, but a co-factor in breast growth so a good thing nonetheless) 400mg/day should do the job though.

-Eric
 
qwerty33 said:
since clomid half life is 5 days (i think). that means that its active and still working on the htpa 5 days after you stop correct? w/ the same benefits of the last dose for those 5 days?
Click to expand...

The different isomers clear at different rates (5/7 day half-life for en/zuclomiphene I believe)

One of the reasons I prefer Toremifene and Nolva over clomid is that they don't posses the estrogen metabolites like Clomid does. (Most all the SERM's have a 5-7 day half-life)

-Eric
 
Primordial Perf said:
You could run Vitex with those other items. However I think Anavar and Turinabol tend to bind to the AR strong enough to antagonize estrogen action and not be associated with gyno problems. (even though they lower SHBG)

460mg/day is the same amount used in the human study that shows a reduction in prolactin. (different than progesterone, but a co-factor in breast growth so a good thing nonetheless) 400mg/day should do the job though.

-Eric
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Is there anything to help stop progesterone? I know nolva/torem will up the receptors after each use and make you more prone to gyno so is there anything that can be done in that sense?
 
TexasTitan said:
Is there anything to help stop progesterone? I know nolva/torem will up the receptors after each use and make you more prone to gyno so is there anything that can be done in that sense?
Click to expand...

Nothing that I know of...

Its just important to limit the use of SERMs. Its one of the reasons I dont recommend using them throughout a cycle and only for a very limited duration for certain PCT's.

-Eric
 

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that is a common dose but starting at 90 or 60 and then running the lowest does for longer would probably be better for you. typically any of the high dose is only ran for 4-5 days too.
 
neverstop said:
that is a common dose but starting at 90 or 60 and then running the lowest does for longer would probably be better for you. typically any of the high dose is only ran for 4-5 days too.
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so...
120 (4-5 days)/90/60/30/30...?

Im thinking about pulsing Epi (Mon/Wed/Fri) for 4 weeks with Hdrol (ED) for 6 weeks...any opinions?
 
Hey eric or trauma, do you have any links to before and afters blood work from the TRS? Preferable after a cycle and not standalone.
 
Hi,

Just starting PCT today after 6 weeks 2 days on 1t-t. I'm using the TRS and 10mg of nolva.

I have APPNUT Alpha-X and Stoked (test boosters) which both state they reduce estrogen. I only took Alpha-x today as your article says you don't want to suppress estrogen too much during pct.

Can I safely take both test boosters?
 
I guess I'm just a little confused onthis whole deal. I am currently cyling X-Tren by CEL (19-nor) which is essentialy the same as your 1T-T. So my question is from what I have read 19-nor extra estrogen is not nearly as much of a concern as prolactin issues so why would any SERM even be necessary? Also in the guide you kind of knock on AI's which I'm a little confused on as well because it is my understanding that when you're on cycle your test levels are skyrocketed and in turn your bodies natural response is to acheive a balance by turning up the estrogen as well. So from what I can understand when you end cycle your test level drops very low and your estrogen is left higher due to the balancing that occured while on cycle. So why would you not want to combine a tapering AI such as Novedex XT and A test booster such as HyperTest? In my mind at least that would make most sense due to the fact that the AI would cause your estrogen to decrease and the test booster would cause your test to increase. Thereby causing both estrogen and test to head back towards a naturall balance. Also I know that estrogen is important and that you do not want to completely kill it off thats why you would taper it off allowing your body to regain that natural balance that it so desires. Nobody laugh but these numbers have no significance they are just to illustrate a point.

100test-100est balance
on cycle-300test-^^^ estrogen to acheive balance
cycle end-testVVVnatural production down-300 estrogen

therefore at the end of cycle your left with something looking like this
50test-300 estrogen

now for the PCT and how it makes sense to me
50test^^^test booster-300estrogenVVVAI
so therfore your going back towards that sweet little balance and tapering the AI insures that your estrogen doesnt go too low but reaches that natural level and i don't beleive in tapering the test booster down because hey a little high of natural test never hurt anyone ;)

Somebody please tell me if i have this all wrong but from all the research I have done this seems to be the way it works.

Also what makes your TRS better then Hypertest because I have heard great things about the HT and I'm wondering what makes your TRS worth the huge price difference?
 
Jotan said:
Hi,

Just starting PCT today after 6 weeks 2 days on 1t-t. I'm using the TRS and 10mg of nolva.

I have APPNUT Alpha-X and Stoked (test boosters) which both state they reduce estrogen. I only took Alpha-x today as your article says you don't want to suppress estrogen too much during pct.

Can I safely take both test boosters?
Click to expand...

What are the ingredients in those products? I dont like to have any steroidial AI's in PCT.

-Eric
 
kch198622 said:
I guess I'm just a little confused onthis whole deal. I am currently cyling X-Tren by CEL (19-nor) which is essentialy the same as your 1T-T. So my question is from what I have read 19-nor extra estrogen is not nearly as much of a concern as prolactin issues so why would any SERM even be necessary? Also in the guide you kind of knock on AI's which I'm a little confused on as well because it is my understanding that when you're on cycle your test levels are skyrocketed and in turn your bodies natural response is to acheive a balance by turning up the estrogen as well. So from what I can understand when you end cycle your test level drops very low and your estrogen is left higher due to the balancing that occured while on cycle. So why would you not want to combine a tapering AI such as Novedex XT and A test booster such as HyperTest? In my mind at least that would make most sense due to the fact that the AI would cause your estrogen to decrease and the test booster would cause your test to increase. Thereby causing both estrogen and test to head back towards a naturall balance. Also I know that estrogen is important and that you do not want to completely kill it off thats why you would taper it off allowing your body to regain that natural balance that it so desires. Nobody laugh but these numbers have no significance they are just to illustrate a point.

100test-100est balance
on cycle-300test-^^^ estrogen to acheive balance
cycle end-testVVVnatural production down-300 estrogen

therefore at the end of cycle your left with something looking like this
50test-300 estrogen

now for the PCT and how it makes sense to me
50test^^^test booster-300estrogenVVVAI
so therfore your going back towards that sweet little balance and tapering the AI insures that your estrogen doesnt go too low but reaches that natural level and i don't beleive in tapering the test booster down because hey a little high of natural test never hurt anyone ;)

Somebody please tell me if i have this all wrong but from all the research I have done this seems to be the way it works.

Also what makes your TRS better then Hypertest because I have heard great things about the HT and I'm wondering what makes your TRS worth the huge price difference?
Click to expand...

Testosterone is suppressed during a cycle, not skyrocketed. (unless you are actually taking testosterone) If testosterone is depressed, then estrogen will be too.

-Eric
 
hey prim. I loved your XHMS and will run your trs will all my future ph/ds runs.

I want to get pre cycle and post pct blood work done. Do you know any online sites to get this done? I really don't trust zrt labs.

also what should i look into getting done?
Total Test
LH
FSH
Estradiol

Thanks m8
 
qwerty33 said:
hey prim. I loved your XHMS and will run your trs will all my future ph/ds runs.

I want to get pre cycle and post pct blood work done. Do you know any online sites to get this done? I really don't trust zrt labs.

also what should i look into getting done?
Total Test
Free Test
SHBG
Estradiol

Thanks m8
Click to expand...

May as well get your liver enzymes and HDL/LDL numbers while you're at it.
 
Im going to run an epistane cycle, i will use formex and activate extreme during post cycle. On epi cycle i will run cycle support. Do you guys think this will be fine?
 
add his TRS stack for 100$. then your set. It will get you back up in no time. Personally i would run the TRS + ptc assist by cel. Drop formex or if you have it use it while on cycle to harden up. and A extreme i dont like at all.
 
qwerty33 said:
hey prim. I loved your XHMS and will run your trs will all my future ph/ds runs.

I want to get pre cycle and post pct blood work done. Do you know any online sites to get this done? I really don't trust zrt labs.

also what should i look into getting done?
Total Test
LH
FSH
Estradiol

Thanks m8
Click to expand...

I think life extension sells quest lab test products... but why dont you trust ZRT? There blood tests should be just as reliable as quest.

-Eric
 
is this the site you are suggseting? Can I get the blood drawn from any local blood test center? Invalid Link Removed

Also i read that zrt labs are not that accurate because of the mailing in process. The blood is not spun before being sent out. What are you feeling on this?

Lastly any eta on liquid sustain alpha?
 
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-Eric
 
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