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HIT4ME

HIT4ME

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Hi guys, I am far from an expert on hormones and I have some ideas here but would value the opinions of others on this board.

For the last couple of weeks I have been feeling very, very run down. It is pretty profound - like almost catatonic. I get to a point where I would be happy just staring at a wall and not moving. My body feels heavy, and I have no motivation to move at all. It impacts my work, and even though I am trying to fight through it I know I am working in slow motion.

Mentally, I have deficits. Sometimes it is difficult to even focus on a conversation and if there are two or three ideas I have to follow while there is activity around me I can totally blank out. It becomes overwhelming, even though I know what I am trying to follow is not complicated.

And the thing is, I had this exact same thing happen last year. I went to the doctor and ran a bunch of standard tests, lyme, etc. And we found nothing beyond my red cells being a mess because I carry a trait for thalasemia.

So when this started happening a couple weeks ago, I had it in my head that I felt like this in April 2019 and then last week I went to check my records and I first went to the doctor on 6/6/19 - which was probably 2-3 weeks after I started having symptoms last year - so I am almost on schedule to the week with this, which isn't how I remembered it.

So I made another apt. With the doc and he did a bunch of bloods. I asked for some testosterone tests and he was worried insurance wouldn't pay for it but agreed to order total test. And the bloods were drawn as Thursday.

Now, I have been researching and it turns out there is an unexplained phenomenon called spring fatigue - so maybe that is all this is. It also looks like testosterone levels fluctuate throughout the year and are lowest in the spring possibly.

My bloods came back and it looks like my doctor ordered all kinds of stuff looking for inflammatory markers, lupus, autoimmune diseases, etc. - everything is looking good.

Total test came back at 390 though. I am 40 years old. I am not sure what to think about this given just how profound my symptoms are. I feel like 390 shouldn't have suck an impact on things...its low for my age but in range.

But after the bloodwork was done last week, I started taking 200 mg/day DHEA orally, plus using dermacrine and 400 mg. Oral 7-keto dhea.

To be honest, I feel a ton better. To me, this is further evidence something isn't quite right. I did deadliest tonight and they felt so much easier then they have been feeling - not like I was that much stronger, just like I had the energy for them again.

Also, I have been waking up feeling like I didn't get any rest at all and a truck hit me in my sleep no matter how long I sleep...up to 9.5 hours...and since the dermacrine that has been subsiding dramatically.

What do you guys think - is 390 THAT low?

I wish he had taken free test, SHBG, LH, FSH, E2 but I didn't think it would come back poorly...and now it is even worse, it wasn't poor but wasn't good and I am not sure if it has anything to do with this.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
 

kl1234

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Hi guys, I am far from an expert on hormones and I have some ideas here but would value the opinions of others on this board.

For the last couple of weeks I have been feeling very, very run down. It is pretty profound - like almost catatonic. I get to a point where I would be happy just staring at a wall and not moving. My body feels heavy, and I have no motivation to move at all. It impacts my work, and even though I am trying to fight through it I know I am working in slow motion.

Mentally, I have deficits. Sometimes it is difficult to even focus on a conversation and if there are two or three ideas I have to follow while there is activity around me I can totally blank out. It becomes overwhelming, even though I know what I am trying to follow is not complicated.

And the thing is, I had this exact same thing happen last year. I went to the doctor and ran a bunch of standard tests, lyme, etc. And we found nothing beyond my red cells being a mess because I carry a trait for thalasemia.

So when this started happening a couple weeks ago, I had it in my head that I felt like this in April 2019 and then last week I went to check my records and I first went to the doctor on 6/6/19 - which was probably 2-3 weeks after I started having symptoms last year - so I am almost on schedule to the week with this, which isn't how I remembered it.

So I made another apt. With the doc and he did a bunch of bloods. I asked for some testosterone tests and he was worried insurance wouldn't pay for it but agreed to order total test. And the bloods were drawn as Thursday.

Now, I have been researching and it turns out there is an unexplained phenomenon called spring fatigue - so maybe that is all this is. It also looks like testosterone levels fluctuate throughout the year and are lowest in the spring possibly.

My bloods came back and it looks like my doctor ordered all kinds of stuff looking for inflammatory markers, lupus, autoimmune diseases, etc. - everything is looking good.

Total test came back at 390 though. I am 40 years old. I am not sure what to think about this given just how profound my symptoms are. I feel like 390 shouldn't have suck an impact on things...its low for my age but in range.

But after the bloodwork was done last week, I started taking 200 mg/day DHEA orally, plus using dermacrine and 400 mg. Oral 7-keto dhea.

To be honest, I feel a ton better. To me, this is further evidence something isn't quite right. I did deadliest tonight and they felt so much easier then they have been feeling - not like I was that much stronger, just like I had the energy for them again.

Also, I have been waking up feeling like I didn't get any rest at all and a truck hit me in my sleep no matter how long I sleep...up to 9.5 hours...and since the dermacrine that has been subsiding dramatically.

What do you guys think - is 390 THAT low?

I wish he had taken free test, SHBG, LH, FSH, E2 but I didn't think it would come back poorly...and now it is even worse, it wasn't poor but wasn't good and I am not sure if it has anything to do with this.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.
Do you have allergies?

I was under the impression Testosterone was generally highest in the spring(mating season).

That is a lot of dhea. Did you have e2 tested? Could have more to do with e2- rather than testosterone. Dhea May be elevating your e2... making you feel better?
 
HIT4ME

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Do you have allergies?

I was under the impression Testosterone was generally highest in the spring(mating season).

That is a lot of dhea. Did you have e2 tested? Could have more to do with e2- rather than testosterone. Dhea May be elevating your e2... making you feel better?
Yeah, I would have thought it was highest then too - but from what I have seen human mating season is actually more toward the fall and most babies are born in the spring. Go figure. I could be wrong but I saw it referenced a couple of times in studies.

And no, the only hormones he tested were total test, tsh, T4, T3. I had to ask for the test.

I wish I had pushed for more. I have a follow up on Thursday, but now I am kicking myself for taking the DHEA because if he wants to take more tests I may have thrown them off.

And yes, it is a lot of DHEA. I was thinking 200 mg a day for the first week and then drop to 100 a day...which is still a lot. Maybe you are right.
 
GreenMachineX

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390, in my opinion, is low. Mine floated around 350-400 for ten years, eventually dropping to under bottom of range, and got treatment. But, I’ll tell you I feel much better at 550, then at 400. And 250 didn’t feel much different than 400. I can’t explain it, but that’s my 16 year story. I’ve been on TRT for 4-5 years now.
 
thebigt

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Yeah, I would have thought it was highest then too - but from what I have seen human mating season is actually more toward the fall and most babies are born in the spring. Go figure. I could be wrong but I saw it referenced a couple of times in studies.

And no, the only hormones he tested were total test, tsh, T4, T3. I had to ask for the test.

I wish I had pushed for more. I have a follow up on Thursday, but now I am kicking myself for taking the DHEA because if he wants to take more tests I may have thrown them off.

And yes, it is a lot of DHEA. I was thinking 200 mg a day for the first week and then drop to 100 a day...which is still a lot. Maybe you are right.
just stick with the dermacrine using weight related dosing, on days you need more of a boost get some transdermal pregnenolone and add in .5ml. all that dhea will increase estrogen but dermacrine has a built in mild AI to combat estrogen sides. you will be surprised by the boost just .5ml preg will have added to the dermacrine.
 
HIT4ME

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390, in my opinion, is low. Mine floated around 350-400 for ten years, eventually dropping to under bottom of range, and got treatment. But, I’ll tell you I feel much better at 550, then at 400. And 250 didn’t feel much different than 400. I can’t explain it, but that’s my 16 year story. I’ve been on TRT for 4-5 years now.
Yeah, I am really wondering. I used to be very aggressive when I was young too...and that has all but dwindled away. By aggressive I mean I was competitive, ready to get things done, didn't care what people thought, etc. While some of that might just be maturity and learning to not rush into things, over the past decade I have gotten to a point where it feels like a struggle just to get things done that are minor.

Or maybe I am just getting lazy.

just stick with the dermacrine using weight related dosing, on days you need more of a boost get some transdermal pregnenolone and add in .5ml. all that dhea will increase estrogen but dermacrine has a built in mild AI to combat estrogen sides. you will be surprised by the boost just .5ml preg will have added to the dermacrine.
Yeah, that is actually a big reason I was using the dermacrine - the AI and the pregnenolone. The slower release DHEA is nice too.

I will see about the additional pregnenolone.
 
thebigt

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Yeah, I am really wondering. I used to be very aggressive when I was young too...and that has all but dwindled away. By aggressive I mean I was competitive, ready to get things done, didn't care what people thought, etc. While some of that might just be maturity and learning to not rush into things, over the past decade I have gotten to a point where it feels like a struggle just to get things done that are minor.

Or maybe I am just getting lazy.



Yeah, that is actually a big reason I was using the dermacrine - the AI and the pregnenolone. The slower release DHEA is nice too.

I will see about the additional pregnenolone.
td pregnenolone is a cheap add on to the dermacrine, at less than $20 bucks a bottle using .5ml occasionally a bottle will last well over 2 months.
 
SkRaw85

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I always just figured you were on trt this whole time. That’s what I get for assuming.
My total was at 501 at age 34. Felt ok I guess, not knowing any better. One year of trt and I won’t go back to 501. Why not feel better and give aging a swift throat chop?
 
HIT4ME

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I always just figured you were on trt this whole time. That’s what I get for assuming.
My total was at 501 at age 34. Felt ok I guess, not knowing any better. One year of trt and I won’t go back to 501. Why not feel better and give aging a swift throat chop?
Haha...I am a small guy with a lot of fat. I probably have the worst physique on this board of any of the regulars. I am pretty strong and I have had some good cuts, but fat has been a lifelong battle.

Honestly, I have been dieting a little to lose some of the weight I gained during the shutdown - but yesterday something really strange happened. I was ravenous and totally tired again. I was actually feeling better each day from Thursday until Monday with the peak being Monday where I suddenly remembered what it was like to be "able". I felt like I was totally on the right path and full of energy. I even triple checked to make sure my decaf coffee was in fact, decaffeinated.

Then, Tuesday not so much. Then yesterday I was down for the count and nothing I ate made me feel better. I ate stuff I never eat - bagels, peanut butter perfect bars, more yogurt than normal, more everything. And my gf made cake for her daughters bday and I ate a HUGE piece and then went back for another small piece.

I just felt exhausted and like I had to eat.

And I gained 2 pounds when I woke up today - but my pants feel crazy loose. I am a little shocked.

It is all pretty strange. Twilight zone.

But, yeah, part of me agrees that if I feel better I would hop on TRT in a minute. My only hesitancy is my Thalasemia trait makes my RBC 6.7 normally as it is...but it isn't really significant because my RBCs are also much smaller than normal. I don't think there is any clinical significance.

Plus my doc probably won't cooperate, but we will see.
 
GreenMachineX

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Haha...I am a small guy with a lot of fat. I probably have the worst physique on this board of any of the regulars. I am pretty strong and I have had some good cuts, but fat has been a lifelong battle.

Honestly, I have been dieting a little to lose some of the weight I gained during the shutdown - but yesterday something really strange happened. I was ravenous and totally tired again. I was actually feeling better each day from Thursday until Monday with the peak being Monday where I suddenly remembered what it was like to be "able". I felt like I was totally on the right path and full of energy. I even triple checked to make sure my decaf coffee was in fact, decaffeinated.

Then, Tuesday not so much. Then yesterday I was down for the count and nothing I ate made me feel better. I ate stuff I never eat - bagels, peanut butter perfect bars, more yogurt than normal, more everything. And my gf made cake for her daughters bday and I ate a HUGE piece and then went back for another small piece.

I just felt exhausted and like I had to eat.

And I gained 2 pounds when I woke up today - but my pants feel crazy loose. I am a little shocked.

It is all pretty strange. Twilight zone.

But, yeah, part of me agrees that if I feel better I would hop on TRT in a minute. My only hesitancy is my Thalasemia trait makes my RBC 6.7 normally as it is...but it isn't really significant because my RBCs are also much smaller than normal. I don't think there is any clinical significance.

Plus my doc probably won't cooperate, but we will see.
What’s your hemoglobin and hematocrit?
 
HIT4ME

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HIT4ME

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Well, in my mildly educated opinion, the real risk with elevated RBCs is blood viscosity as determined by HCT.
I think you are probably right. I talked to my doctor today, he thinks 390 is fine.

Ironically, I have some Clomid on the way and I will probably give that a shot for a month or so and then re-assess, but I'm probably around the corner from going to the dark side.
 
GreenMachineX

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I think you are probably right. I talked to my doctor today, he thinks 390 is fine.

Ironically, I have some Clomid on the way and I will probably give that a shot for a month or so and then re-assess, but I'm probably around the corner from going to the dark side.
I felt Terrible on clomiphene when I tried it. Sooooo emotional. I acted And felt just like PMS.
 
HIT4ME

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I felt Terrible on clomiphene when I tried it. Sooooo emotional. I acted And felt just like PMS.
Outstanding. Can't wait to figure out this doesn't work either.
 
xR1pp3Rx

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I don't want to derail this thread because there is going to be some good discovery with in.. but I have to point out, that this whole lock down thing (in my state anyhow) has cause some serious depression in my household. I'm not sure that you are depressed obviously, but the symptoms you describe are a lot like my symptoms of depression, and I just wanted to point that out as I am on trt and don't have low T yet I share many of the same issues. As the lock down deepens here I find there is little reason to chipper up... they just announced we will not be moving out of phase 1.. imagine that.
 
HIT4ME

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I don't want to derail this thread because there is going to be some good discovery with in.. but I have to point out, that this whole lock down thing (in my state anyhow) has cause some serious depression in my household. I'm not sure that you are depressed obviously, but the symptoms you describe are a lot like my symptoms of depression, and I just wanted to point that out as I am on trt and don't have low T yet I share many of the same issues. As the lock down deepens here I find there is little reason to chipper up... they just announced we will not be moving out of phase 1.. imagine that.
Yes, you could be right here. I'm actually VERY lucky at the moment as I have a large project that I have been working on that is moving forward and challenges me and has been keeping me working as if things were mostly normal (not income-wise, but activity wise). I'm actually in a good place mentally, at least on a concious level. Plus I'm introverted and these lock downs have actually kind of been a relief to me in some ways - I can focus on what I want rather than react to a bunch of other people who just need things done.

Having said that, depression isn't always sadness so you could be onto something. I've considered it - but it's strange that it happened last year too, to the exact week.

But it could be along the lines of what you are saying because in Oct. 2018 my dad had a stroke and until about February of 2019 my life was turned upside down because of that - then it hit about 3 months later. In Oct. 2019 my grandmother passed away. She was 93 and while it wasn't as acutely stressful as my dad's stroke, there were some long term stresses that lifted when she passed (disagreements with her treatments among family members and doctors mostly, while we watched her suffer) - but my mom kept her 2 family house and started renovating it and it got completely messed up and I had to jump in and take over and do a bunch of work from December - March to fix things and get it right. So maybe all this stress just exhausts me and it takes me about 3 months after I settle down to consciously notice.

At this point, I am leaning toward some kind of depression or being overwhelmed/exhausted. I really don't know.

Taking DHEA and 7-Keto seems to be helping though...but it could just be coincidence.
 
thebigt

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Yes, you could be right here. I'm actually VERY lucky at the moment as I have a large project that I have been working on that is moving forward and challenges me and has been keeping me working as if things were mostly normal (not income-wise, but activity wise). I'm actually in a good place mentally, at least on a concious level. Plus I'm introverted and these lock downs have actually kind of been a relief to me in some ways - I can focus on what I want rather than react to a bunch of other people who just need things done.

Having said that, depression isn't always sadness so you could be onto something. I've considered it - but it's strange that it happened last year too, to the exact week.

But it could be along the lines of what you are saying because in Oct. 2018 my dad had a stroke and until about February of 2019 my life was turned upside down because of that - then it hit about 3 months later. In Oct. 2019 my grandmother passed away. She was 93 and while it wasn't as acutely stressful as my dad's stroke, there were some long term stresses that lifted when she passed (disagreements with her treatments among family members and doctors mostly, while we watched her suffer) - but my mom kept her 2 family house and started renovating it and it got completely messed up and I had to jump in and take over and do a bunch of work from December - March to fix things and get it right. So maybe all this stress just exhausts me and it takes me about 3 months after I settle down to consciously notice.

At this point, I am leaning toward some kind of depression or being overwhelmed/exhausted. I really don't know.

Taking DHEA and 7-Keto seems to be helping though...but it could just be coincidence.
pregnenolone!!!
 
xR1pp3Rx

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Yes, you could be right here. I'm actually VERY lucky at the moment as I have a large project that I have been working on that is moving forward and challenges me and has been keeping me working as if things were mostly normal (not income-wise, but activity wise). I'm actually in a good place mentally, at least on a concious level. Plus I'm introverted and these lock downs have actually kind of been a relief to me in some ways - I can focus on what I want rather than react to a bunch of other people who just need things done.

Having said that, depression isn't always sadness so you could be onto something. I've considered it - but it's strange that it happened last year too, to the exact week.

But it could be along the lines of what you are saying because in Oct. 2018 my dad had a stroke and until about February of 2019 my life was turned upside down because of that - then it hit about 3 months later. In Oct. 2019 my grandmother passed away. She was 93 and while it wasn't as acutely stressful as my dad's stroke, there were some long term stresses that lifted when she passed (disagreements with her treatments among family members and doctors mostly, while we watched her suffer) - but my mom kept her 2 family house and started renovating it and it got completely messed up and I had to jump in and take over and do a bunch of work from December - March to fix things and get it right. So maybe all this stress just exhausts me and it takes me about 3 months after I settle down to consciously notice.

At this point, I am leaning toward some kind of depression or being overwhelmed/exhausted. I really don't know.

Taking DHEA and 7-Keto seems to be helping though...but it could just be coincidence.
no its not coincidence. Its very well known that the DHEA can and will induce feelings of well being when the user is low in DHEA. remember its the parent hormone and turns into everything.. so even if your good on DHEA you may be low in some other inbody hormone. Im just wanting to point out that I don't think there is any wrong with self medicating in this manner. In fact Its possibly a healthy avenue to try and curb the issue. and if your body wants a little more test.. well, supplementing DHEA will ensure you have all the needed building blocks. I am not at all trying to get you to avoid TRT. I would never try to over talk your doc. if he thinks you need it .. take it. if you are that low in test, you literally have nothing to loose while trying it out. you can always deter later if things didn't improve~
 

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