Test vs test+eq

For the user who was asking about hematocrit and donating blood, also keep in mind high hematocrit will return to normal after a cycle, if you're not cruising on large amounts of test. I've witnessed this with blood work.
 
Yeah my buddy does 300mg tren ace and 200-300g Test a week, kills his appetite and has some crazy libido but that’s the only sides. Yet tren E will give him night sweats but no hunger issues....
 
I definitely include test with tren at low dosage. I'm just curious how powerful it is at say 200 compared to primo at 800, and Is it safer? Taking sides and gains in consideration is it even worth using tren of you could go much higher on a safer compound? I've only ran tren at 3-400 which Is in my opinion a quite strong dosage.
 
I ran Tren ace at 350/week (daily pins), my first time using Tren, experienced no night sweats. Deca on the other hand caused them for me. Maybe it's due to the long ester.
 
Outofbody said:
I ran Tren ace at 350/week (daily pins), my first time using Tren, experienced no night sweats. Deca on the other hand caused them for me. Maybe it's due to the long ester.
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Perhaps, what did you run deca at? I think many of the problems from tren is that your body can go on a very low deficit and it tends to stop hunger yet you're growing on it. Sides seems to come randomly when you need to feed yourself and as I stated before it doesn't feel like low blood sugar or hunger, it's quite weird. And people also claims that eating much carbs leads to night sweats so which I probably due to more growth. After all tren is the best muscle builder out there, sure you don't gain the most weight but you can be sure it's all muscle and fatloss.
 
bradleyt1 said:
After hearing all the side effects of what Tren can do I would never touch the stuff. Insomnia, anxiety, night sweats, aggression, mental effect the list goes on.. I just don’t think it’s worth it To take something that could cause long term damage. Unless you are competing at a high level and getting something out of it, just keep it basic.
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Extreme strength gains. Abiblity to eat and not gain weight. Ragging libidio.
Fast recovery from workout.
Gym euphoria to the poi t where you don't feel like leaving the gym.
Those are some of the positive.
And for bodybuilders the benefits are even more.
You really look good on tren.
The sides where bad for me the first 2 weeks. But I adjusted and was able to go up to 500 mg and conquer the world!!
 
Outofbody said:
Tren at a moderate dose, along with low dose test (to keep estrogen down), seems to produce very little if any side effects in people. I was nervous to try tren for years, but then ran it like this (a few times) and never experienced bad sides at all except for some hair shedding and insane libido.

Most people who experience sides with it tend to blast test alongside it, but it's not even needed imo, just a TRT dose of test is fine.
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Very true my test and tren were equal doses .
The test can be kept at TRT level.
I didn't because I was amazed at what tren does to estrogen.
It feels like it devour s it.
Test prop/tren ace is TOO fun.
Makes me never want to stop.
If I had more in the drawer I might go another 2 weeks.
But thankfully it will be just the last 6 weeks of a 3 month blast
 
Chados said:
Perhaps, what did you run deca at? I think many of the problems from tren is that your body can go on a very low deficit and it tends to stop hunger yet you're growing on it. Sides seems to come randomly when you need to feed yourself and as I stated before it doesn't feel like low blood sugar or hunger, it's quite weird. And people also claims that eating much carbs leads to night sweats so which I probably due to more growth. After all tren is the best muscle builder out there, sure you don't gain the most weight but you can be sure it's all muscle and fatloss.
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I ran deca at 500mg/week with test at about 600mg/week. I was also running tren on a fairly low carb diet, and ran deca during a bulk. For size, I personally like trest ace over tren, but it's not very dry!
 
Outofbody said:
I ran deca at 500mg/week with test at about 600mg/week. I was also running tren on a fairly low carb diet, and ran deca during a bulk. For size, I personally like trest ace over tren, but it's not very dry!
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Could be the dosage then. I understand why people prefer other things for size but the thing with tren is that you gain weight with so little calories and it's no water and you loose fat better than any other compound. I think people sometimes don't realize how much they can actually eat on tren without gaining fat but it can be quite hard eating a lot on tren. Dbol blows most things out of the water but you also know it's just that (water) and you'll loose it.


Also I believe the lack of weight gain compared to other things is that it removes water and fat and with the nutrient partioning you need to eat more.
 
Outofbody said:
I ran Tren ace at 350/week (daily pins), my first time using Tren, experienced no night sweats. Deca on the other hand caused them for me. Maybe it's due to the long ester.
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I am still collecting knowledge of how diff esters work. Most ppl dont realise that Test E and Test C are slightly diff in their effects even though they seem almost identical but Test C is a bit stronger and more size than Test E and Test P MG/MG. My knowledge so far only is on a few compounds [mostly Testosterone, nandrolone, boldelone] and tren is not 1 of them. That said taking you can get diff sides from esters with Tren, and maybe Tren E has a more propensity to give sides at even low doses. I usually always run any 19nor at least 50mg more than Test as I have seen that even though "science" has told us that they react to andro receptor diff but it seems that the thought of "run Test at low dose levels and let the more potent steroid to do all the work" is good advise with. The 2 times I have ran Tren was at 300mg/week and 450mg/week. I will always start a Tren cycle with A first then E for the long term. I have noticed that tren e does give me slightly more sides than A at the same MG but A will give me anger and night sweats.

On a similar topic Deca reacts to ppl in such a far diff way than I have seen any other steroid does. Deca for me is like Jr. Tren without the sides. It eats my fat, builds massive LEAN mass, and no Deca dikk. And I have heard on forums that there are many guys that will say 'I ran deca and wont do it again I was bloated with limp dikk and gained fat" . And there are even more ppl that say "the sides from tren aren't worth it" and the same with Trest.

I really don't think it's from a longer ester because I know guys who will run 5 month cycles with Tren Undec and have unreal results at low doses.
 
FRITZBLITZ said:
I am still collecting knowledge of how diff esters work. Most ppl dont realise that Test E and Test C are slightly diff in their effects even though they seem almost identical but Test C is a bit stronger and more size than Test E and Test P MG/MG. My knowledge so far only is on a few compounds [mostly Testosterone, nandrolone, boldelone] and tren is not 1 of them. That said taking you can get diff sides from esters with Tren, and maybe Tren E has a more propensity to give sides at even low doses. I usually always run any 19nor at least 50mg more than Test as I have seen that even though "science" has told us that they react to andro receptor diff but it seems that the thought of "run Test at low dose levels and let the more potent steroid to do all the work" is good advise with. The 2 times I have ran Tren was at 300mg/week and 450mg/week. I will always start a Tren cycle with A first then E for the long term. I have noticed that tren e does give me slightly more sides than A at the same MG but A will give me anger and night sweats.

On a similar topic Deca reacts to ppl in such a far diff way than I have seen any other steroid does. Deca for me is like Jr. Tren without the sides. It eats my fat, builds massive LEAN mass, and no Deca dikk. And I have heard on forums that there are many guys that will say 'I ran deca and wont do it again I was bloated with limp dikk and gained fat" . And there are even more ppl that say "the sides from tren aren't worth it" and the same with Trest.

I really don't think it's from a longer ester because I know guys who will run 5 month cycles with Tren Undec and have unreal results at low doses.
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I think deca is clean however the extra weight you gain compared to tren will not be muscles. I don't see anything coming close to the amount of pure muscle you can gain on tren.
 
Chados said:
Nah I don't ever run without test. I don't see eq replace test anywhere. Eq goes well with tren though but I can add gw here for the energy.
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I used to think the same, but done a few runs now with no test at all using either low dose EQ, or trest, instead.

Depends what you want/goals, of course. Test is replaceable though, despite what Beyonce says.
 
Chados said:
Could be the dosage then. I understand why people prefer other things for size but the thing with tren is that you gain weight with so little calories and it's no water and you loose fat better than any other compound. I think people sometimes don't realize how much they can actually eat on tren without gaining fat but it can be quite hard eating a lot on tren. Dbol blows most things out of the water but you also know it's just that (water) and you'll loose it.


Also I believe the lack of weight gain compared to other things is that it removes water and fat and with the nutrient partioning you need to eat more.
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True, but trestolone (injectable) is far far far more anabolic/androgenic than both tren/dbol, and with daily exemestane usage (along with raloxifene and some caber/prami) for control of the wicked methyl-estrogen as well as prolactin it produces, then no worries about water/fat gain. It's intense stuff! Sides were wicked compared to tren! And growth is almost immediate. Some people only do 2 week cycles because of how strong the stuff is and how fast you gain from it.
 
Chados said:
I think deca is clean however the extra weight you gain compared to tren will not be muscles. I don't see anything coming close to the amount of pure muscle you can gain on tren.
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Yup, deca gave me a lot of water weight personally. NPP is great for lean gains though not as good as tren. Fewer sides though.
 
Outofbody said:
True, but trestolone (injectable) is far far far more anabolic/androgenic than both tren/dbol, and with daily exemestane usage (along with raloxifene and some caber/prami) for control of the wicked methyl-estrogen as well as prolactin it produces, then no worries about water/fat gain. It's intense stuff! Sides were wicked compared to tren! And growth is almost immediate. Some people only do 2 week cycles because of how strong the stuff is and how fast you gain from it.
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Maybe it is but I never found the ratios to be the best thing about tren. You have halo which has far higher ratings and you don't grow at all. I believe it has to do with receptors not answering to certain compounds or that they work different in mice or whatever. Trens nutrient partitioning is what makes it shine to me. I've heard people swear by trest and others swear by tren. The ratios are extremly misleading, I guess you can only judge it by trying it yourself.
 
I've still yet to try out a longer ester of tren, like tren hex. It's on my list. I want to give it a run sometime and compare it to ace.
 
Outofbody said:
I've still yet to try out a longer ester of tren, like tren hex. It's on my list. I want to give it a run sometime and compare it to ace.
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I was close to buy hex but ended up getting enthanate. Some people say it's more potent, and it was made for humans which is I guess a bonus. Might be more effective per mg but then you could instead increase let's say ace dosage. I think sides and price is more of a consideration here since it's the same compound.
 
Chados said:
I think deca is clean however the extra weight you gain compared to tren will not be muscles. I don't see anything coming close to the amount of pure muscle you can gain on tren.
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I Agree that nandrolone is not as beast mode as Tren but as for the water weight I think that is a person by person side. When I was doing my last recomp with deca I was seeing striations in all my MAJOR muscles while I still had a belly.

I also agree that NPP is more potent less sides than deca. I just can never manage the e2d pin schedule
 
FRITZBLITZ said:
I also agree that NPP is more potent less sides than deca. I just can never manage the e2d pin schedule
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I'm about to run it in the new year and will be pinning it every day!! Pin to win! lol I just use slin pins and use glutes/delts. Super easy. Plus I'll be pinning peptides several times per day around the navel. Fun times! haha
 
FRITZBLITZ said:
I Agree that nandrolone is not as beast mode as Tren but as for the water weight I think that is a person by person side. When I was doing my last recomp with deca I was seeing striations in all my MAJOR muscles while I still had a belly.

I also agree that NPP is more potent less sides than deca. I just can never manage the e2d pin schedule
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I definitely don't think deca is a bloater, just believe that while tren cuts fat and water deca doesn't in the same way. So the extra potential weight from deca is not gonna be more muscles but just more weight. I think had tren not cut so much water and fat the weight would have been greater but not as nice.
 
Outofbody said:
I'm about to run it in the new year and will be pinning it every day!! Pin to win! lol I just use slin pins and use glutes/delts. Super easy. Plus I'll be pinning peptides several times per day around the navel. Fun times! haha
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So I know that you pull the plunger out, and backload the gear into the slin pin but how do you put the plunger back in without squirting at least a little gear out of the slin needle?
 
FRITZBLITZ said:
So I know that you pull the plunger out, and backload the gear into the slin pin but how do you put the plunger back in without squirting at least a little gear out of the slin needle?
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I never backload. I draw with the slin pin and then pin with the same needle. 0.2-0.5cc of ace is actually easy and quick to draw. And if you have good quality pins (aka BD Ultrafine) then drawing with the same pin won’t be a problem in terms of dulling the needle.
 
Outofbody said:
I never backload. I draw with the slin pin and then pin with the same needle. 0.2-0.5cc of ace is actually easy and quick to draw. And if you have good quality pins (aka BD Ultrafine) then drawing with the same pin won’t be a problem in terms of dulling the needle.
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dude no offense but you are taking the scenic rout of pinning gear. I dont even have the time to draw through a 25g let alone a 29,,,,I'm sorry but the *** on EA is full of sh!t you need to pin as close to the lower muscle fibers as you can
 
Takes me less than 20-30s to draw 0.5cc or less of Ace. I use half inch pins and have never had a problem. Only time I use lower gauge and longer pins is if I’m pinning over 0.5cc.
 
FRITZBLITZ said:
EA is that garbage enhanced athlete telling everyone zero info on safe use of AAS and just influences ppl to buy his overpriced crap
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Ah I see. Yeah I've never heard of him or his products.

But yeah, for smaller volume, frequent daily injects, I do the same as I do for my TRT protocol (slin pins) - same as my peptides.

When I combine oils, and/or it's over a half mL, I use 1 inch 25g pins and pin glutes, delts and ventroglutes. Been doing this for many years.
 
Also, to answer the question about backloading pins... once you backload the pin, put the plunger back in just a bit, then turn it upside down before attempting to push the plunger up to get the air out. This will make the oil roll away from the pin end and back to the plunger, and you won't get any oil loss this way through the pin. You'll just be pushing the air at the top out. Should work this way, but I've never tried it. It's only the longer esters that are harder to pull up so I haven't tried backloading with super low gauge pins (since I mostly use short esters myself, very quick pulls).
 
Outofbody said:
Ah I see. Yeah I've never heard of him or his products.

But yeah, for smaller volume, frequent daily injects, I do the same as I do for my TRT protocol (slin pins) - same as my peptides.

When I combine oils, and/or it's over a half mL, I use 1 inch 25g pins and pin glutes, delts and ventroglutes. Been doing this for many years.
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No offense but many ppl do things that are wrong for many years. I know for a fact that the muscle tissue that needs to be targeted is the lower muscle cells and when you pin your gear in the lower area you get a more steady release of the compound as well as a greater effect on the spot injection area. I use 1 1/2" for delts thighs and traps and only use a 1" for biceps, not because I don't have deep enough biceps but it's creepy enough with a 1'.
 
No offense but you're telling me I should spot inject my oil for localized growth, and go extra deep for a more steady release? You do realize I'm talking about pinning tiny amounts of fast esters right? And that I'm talking about daily pinning? Things you've claimed earlier that you don't even do because you hate pinning often..

Yeah I think I'll just keep doing what I've been doing, it's been working fine for me. Never have I ever had a bad run that I wasn't happy with. I'm not worried about steady release nor am I trying to do or even worried about localized growth. I appreciate the concern and the tips though.
 
Outofbody said:
No offense but you're telling me I should spot inject my oil for localized growth, and go extra deep for a more steady release? You do realize I'm talking about pinning tiny amounts of fast esters right? And that I'm talking about daily pinning? Things you've claimed earlier that you don't even do because you hate pinning often..

Yeah I think I'll just keep doing what I've been doing, it's been working fine for me. Never have I ever had a bad run that I wasn't happy with. I'm not worried about steady release nor am I trying to do or even worried about localized growth. I appreciate the concern and the tips though.
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You have your way that works for you so I guess stick to it, however spot location growth is even more profound with short esters. Just giving you and ppl reading this info. I might have a diff opinion if I did pin ed but I still think your only getting 85% of what the gear has to offer. Hard choice for me since youre write I can't pin ed
 
I hear ya. I've used large pins daily (pinning 2mL+ daily of multiple compounds) but it wasn't fun. I'll probably do it again too because it's rare that I use a single compound in a cycle unless it's trest ace.
 
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