Test very low

underscore

New member
First of, I'm from Belgium. So, keep in mind my Englisch is not perfect. :)

My test results came back from the dokter and as always there are very low.
I did power PCT en I even get a shot of triptorelin.
But the results were still very poor, 3 month after cycle::

Test totaal
57 ng/dl, normal range 175-781
Test free:
10,9%, normal range 22,2 - 110,2
SHGB:
18,1 nmol/l, normal range 13,2 - 89,5

My cycle was:
12 weeks test 500Mg
10 weeks tren 400Mg
PCT:
Powet PCT
Triptorelin

I was wondering if you guys here can help me here. I noticed that suggestions her are slightly difference.
 
what's power PCT?

below is the power pct programme that i use its published in a book for steriod users, the info below is not mine but both me and the original poster agree that it works and works very well
i will try find the actual study that was conducted on <acronym title="anabole androgene steroïden">aas</acronym> users and the pct protocol they used to restore hpta involves the use of hcg
the study proves it works
BACKGROUND

Protocols: Human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG) is taken at 2500lU every other day for 16 days. Clomiphene citrate 50 mg is taken twice per day for 30 days.Tamoxifen citrate is taken 20 mg per day for 45 days.

When you take <acronym title="anabole androgene steroïden">AAS</acronym>, your body stops making natural hormones (i.e., test). Once you stop taking steroids, you can be left with a gap until your body starts making its own again, which can take months. Here, you can be faced with low levels of androgens and normal levels of corticosteroids. Corticosteroids have a pronounced catabolic (muscle-depleting) state on our bodies, and without the androgens to balance the catabolic effects of corticosteroids, a good deal of your new muscle mass may be lost. To help your body maintain its size, you will want to restore endogenous (natural) <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> production quickly. The methods for doing this seem to be different everywhere you look: "Take hCG, don't take hCG, use an aromatase inhibitor, just take Clomid, forget Clomid and just take Nolvadex." What option is reall best? Without an understanding of what is really happeningin your body, and why certain compounds help to correct the situation, choosing he correct PCT program can be quite confusing.

The HPTA Axis

The Hypothalamic-Pituitary-Testicular Axis (HPTA) is the thermostat for your body's natural production of <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>. Too much <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>, and the furnace will shut off. Not enough, and the heat is turned up (to put it very simply). For the purpose of our discussion, we can look at this regulating process as having three levels. At the top is te hypothalamic region of the brain, which releases the hormone GnRH (Gonadotropin-Releasing Hormone) when it senses a need for more <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>. GnRH sends a signal to the second level of the axis, the pituitary, which releases Luteinizing Hormone in response. LH for short, this hormone stimulates the testes (level three) to secrete <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>. The same sex steroids (<acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>, estrogen) that are produced serve to counterbalance things, by providing negative feedback signals (primarily to the hypothalamus and pituitary) to lower the secretion of <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>. Synthetic steroids send the same negative feedback. This quick background of the <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>-regulating axis is necessary to furthering our discussion, as we need to first look at the underlying mechanism involved before we can understand why natural recovery of the HPTA post-cycle is a slow process. Only then can we implement an ancillary drug program to effectively deal with it.

Testicular Desensitization

Although steroids supress <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> production primarily by lowering the level of gonadotropic hormones, the big roadblock to a restored HPTA after we come off steroids is surprisingly not LH. This problem was made clearly evident in a study published back in 1975. Here, blood parameters, including <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> and LH levels, were monitored in male subjects who were given <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> enanthate injections of 250mg weekly for 21 weeks, a low dose for even a beginner's cycle. Subjects remained under investigation for an additional 18 weeks after the drug was discontinued. At the start of the study, LH levels became suppressed in direct relation to the rise in <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>, which was to be expected. Things looked very different, however, once the steroids had been withdrawn. LH levels went on the rise quickly (by the 3rd week), while <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> barely budged for quite some time. In fact, on average, it was more than 10 weeks before any noticeable movement in <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> production started at all! This lack of correlation makes clear that the problem in getting androgen levels restored is not necessarily the level of LH, but more so testicular atrophy and desensitization to LH. After a period of inactivation, the testes have lost mass (atrophied), making them unable to perform the required workload. The protracted post-cycle window can, likewise, no longer be looked at as one of low <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> and low LH. Much of it actually involves low <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> and normal (even high) LH.

The Role of Anti-Estrogens

It is important to understand that anti-estrogens alone are inadequate to restore normal endogenous <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> production after a cycle. These agents ordinarily increase LH levels by blocking the negative feedback of estrogens. But LH rebounds quickly on its own post-cycle, without help. Plus, there is not an elevated level of estrogen for anti-estrogens to block during this window, as <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> (now suppressed) is a major subtrate used for the synthesis of estrogen in men. Serum estrogen levels are actually lower here, not higher. Any estrogen rebound that occurs post-cycle, likewise, happens with a rebound in <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> levels, not prior to it (there is an imbalance in the ratio of androgens to estrogens post cycle, but this is another topic altogether). On their own, we are seeing no mechanism in which anti-estrogenic drugs can effectively help here. I can, however, see why this fact would be easy to overlook. The medical literature is filled with references showing anti-estrogenic drugs like Clomid and Nolvadex to increase LH and <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> levels in men, and in normal situations they indeed perform this function very well. Combine this with the fact that just as many studies can be found to show that steroid use lowers LH when suppressing <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym>, and we can see how easy it would be to jump to the conclusion that we need to focus on LH. We would miss the true problem, testicular desensitization, unless we were really looking into the actual recovery rates of the hormones involved. When we do, we immediately see little value in focusing solely on anti-estrogenic drugs.

The Role of hCG

With anti-estrogens alone proving to be ineffective, we are left to focus on a very different level of the HPTA in order to hasten recovery: the testes. For this, we will need the injectable drug hCG. If you are not familiar, hCG, or Human Chorionic Gonadotropin, is a prescription fertility agent that mimics the body's natural LH. Although the testes are equally desensitized to this drug as they are to LH (they work through the same receptor), we are administering it as a measured drug and are, therefore, not constrained by the limits of our own LH production. In other words, we can give ourselves a good dose of the drug (as much LH as we really need), shocking the testes with unnaturally high levels of stimulation. We want it to reach a level above what our bodies, even when supported by anti-estrogens, could do on its own. The result should be a more rapid restoration of original testicular mass, which would allow normal levels of <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> to be output much sooner than without such an ancillary program in place. What we are looking at now is hCG actually being the pivotal post-cycle drug, with anti-estrogens playing more of a supportive role.

The PoWeR PCT Program

The PCT program outlined below represents what I consider to be an ideal and effective PCT program. It was developed by the doctors at the Program for Wellness Restoration (PoWeR), who have a formidable history helping patients recover from abnormal hormonal functioning following steroid therapy. One of the key doctors on this program, Dr. Michael Scally, claims to have successfully treated more than 100 cases of hypogonadism/hypogonadotropic hypogonadism, and is very well known in the field of androgen replacement therapy. PoWeR published this program as part of a recent clinical study, which involved 19 healthy male subject who were taking supraphysiological (highly suppressive) doses of <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> cypionate and nandrolone decanoate for 12 weeks. Their HPGA Normalization Protocol focuses on the combined use of hCG, Nolvadex, and Clomid, and is perhaps the only clinical documented post-cycle therapy program to be found in the medical literature (it is amazing how little attention has been paid to hormone normalization in clinical medicine). The most notable variation from a classic PCT stack, such that I have been a longtime supporter of, is the combined use of two anti-estrogens. In this case I cannot say there is a disadvantage to such us; perhaps it is indeed the better option.

NOLVADEX: ran for 45 days from day 1
CLOMID: ran for 30 days from day 1
hCG: ran for 16 days from day 1

Examining the program closely, we note that the testes are hit hard with hCG at the onset of therapy. Its intake, however, is limited to only 16 days. The doctors undoubtedly recognize that when hCG is taken for too long or at too high a dosage it can desensitize the LH receptor. This would only further exacerbate the post-cycle program, not help it. Anti-estrogens are used during and after hCG, with a dosage of 10mg of Nolvadex and 100mg of Clomid per day, rounding out this compliment of drugs. Clomid is used for a shorter period of time than Nolvadex, likely because of the desensitizing effect it too can have (on the pituitary gland) with continued use. Among other things, these two anti-estrogens will continue to foster LH release as <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> levels start to go back up, as well as combat any potential estrogenic side effects that may be caused by hCG's up-regulation of testicular aromatase activity. Although the first couple of weeks the anti-estrogens probably do very little, they should be much more helpful toward the middle and end of the program. During this clinical investigation, normal hormonal function was restored in all subjects within 45 days of drug cessation. This is a definite success, far more favorable than the protracted recovery window noted in studies without PCT, such as the 250mg/week <acronym title="testosteron">testosterone</acronym> enanthate investigation. Such a detailed recovery program should follow any serious steroid cycle. It is the best way to maintain your gains at their maximum, and that is, after all, what we are after.
 
summarized:
NOLVADEX: ran for 45 days from day 1
CLOMID: ran for 30 days from day 1
hCG: ran for 16 days from day 1
 
I read a lot of 'its amazing' stories. To many I believe :)
After de shot of triptorelin I felt very good. It seems that everything did his work. My balls were growing and I had a libido sky high.
But after 3 weeks everything normalized. The Trip I took 2 weeks after de Power PCT.
Why?!! I had a feeling Power PCT wasn't sufficient; still small balls and no libido.
And trip stimulates FSH and LH. HCG LH.

The strange thing is I feel very good on this moment. A little estrogen rebound, that's all. I hope it's stayed this way. But I still want to increase my test.

The only thing I take now is "Post Cycle support from AI sports nutrition".
 
I too have seen stories like that but I have my doubts about it, especially after reading things like this:

"Triptorelin is a potent repressor of gonadotropin secretion when given continuously and in therapeutic doses. Following the first administration, there is a transient surge in circulating levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol. After chronic and continuous administration, usually 2 to 4 weeks after initiation of therapy, a sustained decrease in LH and FSH secretion and marked reduction of testicular and ovarian steroidogenesis is observed. In men, a reduction of serum testosterone concentration to a level typically seen in surgically castrated men is obtained. Consequently, the result is that tissues and function that depend on these hormones for maintenance become quiescent. These effects are usually reversible after cessation of therapy."

I'm guessing this is something that happened to you. I would quit using Triptorelin. You should go to your doc and be honest with him about your usage and talk with him about getting your levels back to a healthy value.
 
How much triptorelin did you use? Too high a dose will severely shut you down. The sensitivity test uses 50-100ug too stimulate the release of LH/FSH.
 
I just got back from belgium a few weeks ago, spent a weekend in Brugges. =)

2500iu of hcg EOD is too much, as it will desensitize your leydig cells some. If the triptorelin was dosed too high, that could cause temporary low T as well by desensitizing your pituitary.

What are your LH/FSH levels?
 
How much triptorelin did you use? Too high a dose will severely shut you down. The sensitivity test uses 50-100ug too stimulate the release of LH/FSH.

One shot of 100mcg (ug). Id did my research off course.
This is one of the stories, you all problably:
Single dose of triptorelin gets bodybuilder’s hormones going again

Italian endocrinologists managed to restore the natural testosterone production of a bodybuilder whose sex hormone production had shut down after 13 years of taking steroids. All they had to do was give the 34-year-old man a single dose of 100 micrograms triptorelin. An article by the researchers, who work at the University of Brescia, was published recently in Fertility & Sterility.

The bodybuilder went to a doctor in September 2008 because he was depressed, had no energy and had lost all interest in sex. He told the doctor he’d been using steroids since he was 21.

The guy took 10-week courses. Typically he would inject a daily 25 mg nandrolone and 25 mg stanozolol for the first 8 weeks, and follow it with 2 weeks of 50 mg mesterolone daily [say: primo]. The following week he would take 50 mg clomid daily, and for the last week he’d inject himself three times with 2000 IE hCG.

Well, that’s what the doctors reported. Probably the man took hCG first and clomid after. What’s more the doses sound very responsible to us. If bodybuilders tell doctors how much steroids they’ve been using, in our experience you need to triple the doses.

How many courses the man took each year is also not mentioned in the article.

The bodybuilder did jack up his doses from 2005 to 2008. During the 8 weeks that he injected stanozolol and nandrolone, he also started to use boldenone, injecting an average of 50 mg per day for a period of 3 weeks. And that’s where it went wrong, according to the blood tests. The doctors examined the guy in September, but decided to just observe for a few months. A damaged axis often just needs time to recover. But when the doctors examined the bodybuilder’s blood again in January 2009, there had been hardly any improvement.

The doctors decided to treat the guy with the GnRH analogue triptorelin. GnRH is a hormone that consists of only 10 amino acids. It is produced in the brain by the hypothalamus and stimulates the production of FSH and LH by the pituitary gland. The hormones travel in the blood to the sex glands, where they get these to produce testosterone.

The bodybuilder responded immediately to the hormone treatment. Within several minutes the concentration of LH and FSH in his blood had risen.

The doctors saw the bodybuilder 10 days later. His energy had returned and the testosterone concentration in his blood had risen to 7 ng/ml. Another three weeks later, his testosterone level was still normal, and his libido had returned too.

Source: Fertil Steril. 2010 Apr 21
 
Are there any actual studies on this compound? I don't know why someone would use it based off a handful of case reports when it is not conclusive that it works for the majority of people.
 
I too have seen stories like that but I have my doubts about it, especially after reading things like this:

"Triptorelin is a potent repressor of gonadotropin secretion when given continuously and in therapeutic doses. Following the first administration, there is a transient surge in circulating levels of luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle-stimulating hormone (FSH), testosterone, and estradiol. After chronic and continuous administration, usually 2 to 4 weeks after initiation of therapy, a sustained decrease in LH and FSH secretion and marked reduction of testicular and ovarian steroidogenesis is observed. In men, a reduction of serum testosterone concentration to a level typically seen in surgically castrated men is obtained. Consequently, the result is that tissues and function that depend on these hormones for maintenance become quiescent. These effects are usually reversible after cessation of therapy."

I'm guessing this is something that happened to you. I would quit using Triptorelin. You should go to your doc and be honest with him about your usage and talk with him about getting your levels back to a healthy value.

In therapeutic doses (chemical castration) they use 3,5Mg, dose after dose!!!! I used one shot of 100mcg (microgram). This should be just enough to stimulate pituitary gland and certainly not causing chemical castration.
 
Yea, I've seen a couple different stories...

What are your FSH and LH levels right now?

I have 3 pages with results, but they didn't measure LH and FSH???!!!! It was a new lab and I was sure it is standard procedure. Next month I have another appointment and will ask to measure LH and HSH.
 
Are there any actual studies on this compound? I don't know why someone would use it based off a handful of case reports when it is not conclusive that it works for the majority of people.

I didn't foud any. I read a lot of cases but no blood work before and after. Just one guy, and his test level came back low to.
 
Bottom line is that I always have very low test, months after a cycle. Last time I needed 6 months to recover, without trip.
I appreciated all comments, but I don't think we have to blame the trip.
Thank God for viagra :). It is not the same but I can fulfill my girlfriend wishes, lol...
 
I don't know if this applies, but sounds like you recover slowly. You may want to jump on that thread since it is in Patrick Arnold's section:

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You need to do the triptorelin test while doing blood draws, it will gauge whether your pituitary is functioning properly.
 
In therapeutic doses (chemical castration) they use 3,5Mg, dose after dose!!!! I used one shot of 100mcg (microgram). This should be just enough to stimulate pituitary gland and certainly not causing chemical castration.
I see that now lol, glad you weren't trying to chemically castrate yourself.
 
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