fritzer
Active member
See above. Thx!!
Test/Mast/Primo/Eq/Deca
- Thread starter fritzer
- Start date
See above. Thx!!
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
With that being said you want to get a little stronger and leaner? Add some muscle but not blow up? You can cut that down big time.
Test and primo would suffice. Maybe drop deca to 200 if you're looking for joint relief. Mast is going to make you look harder but kinda of a waste if not competing when primo is in the equation.
400 test
600 primo
200 deca
Or
400 test
600 eq
They'll be a touch more water but less expensive.
FRITZBLITZ
Banned
In Canada gh isn't an option. 100% fake, if Chinese generic or fake pharma.
Mk677/ slin is yes. I mean I could risk UG gh or try peptides... but cjc/ghrp a lot of pinning to keep up for 6 mths.
As far as healthy dieting and training, I believe that is on point. I'm 6'4 275lbs and ripped year round. Currently prob 268 due to a horrendous crohns flare and no food or water really for a week. My BG is checked 3x week fasting with a glucometer and is grear. Take berberine and rala. Apple cider vinegar and cinnamon all non pre wo/post wo meals.
What I want to become... keep going... more ripped, work in weak spots, stronger. I don't compete but this is an important part of my life. Want to expwriment with primo. Keeping my weight/height on won't be done with low test/and primo alone in terms of moving up. Maintaining yes... can do that naturally, I'm lucky that way. I would love to do a good long cycle that is healthier the the tren and oral route, feels good, etc.
I appreciate the advice. Please suggest given this info and my availiabilties what you would do.
A lot of people don't realize how much you can weigh at 6'4 without looking like a mutant. I'm 6'4 270 lil more BF but I dont look grotesque I just look very muscly. My goal is 290 cut not ripped just cut and to look like you could shoot me with a 50 cal and I would need a bandaid. Plus if you don't keep experimenting you won't find the better, bigger, saffer rout.
Edit: This is my 2cents Frontload everything except Mast and get insane big
After you posted the updose of deca and EQ I couldn't help myself I jabbed 450 EQ and 550 Deca in my biceps last night. I love the combo.
Primo 1gr week 1-22
EQ 900mg week 1-16 550mg week 16-21 (if you calculate the esters your undec will ride even till week 21)
Deca 900mg week 1-22
Mast 500mg weel 1-14 800mg week 14-22
fueledpassion
Well-known member
In Canada gh isn't an option. 100% fake, if Chinese generic or fake pharma.
Mk677/ slin is yes. I mean I could risk UG gh or try peptides... but cjc/ghrp a lot of pinning to keep up for 6 mths.
As far as healthy dieting and training, I believe that is on point. I'm 6'4 275lbs and ripped year round. Currently prob 268 due to a horrendous crohns flare and no food or water really for a week. My BG is checked 3x week fasting with a glucometer and is grear. Take berberine and rala. Apple cider vinegar and cinnamon all non pre wo/post wo meals.
What I want to become... keep going... more ripped, work in weak spots, stronger. I don't compete but this is an important part of my life. Want to expwriment with primo. Keeping my weight/height on won't be done with low test/and primo alone in terms of moving up. Maintaining yes... can do that naturally, I'm lucky that way. I would love to do a good long cycle that is healthier the the tren and oral route, feels good, etc.
I appreciate the advice. Please suggest given this info and my availiabilties what you would do.
Not to add more confusion...but...you could look into Desoxy-T Acetate. That stuff is downright stunning when you hit around 300-500mg/wk. Found it to be as anabolic as Tren really for myself. Others didn't experience this but I did.
And it's around too for cheap. I think running it with Test is mandatory though. It is not a replacement hormone even for a few weeks so don't even try, lol. I believe ergolog did a quick review on it and found it to be as anabolic as NPP and Test PP but without the ester attached. Generally speaking, the longer the ester, the greater the nitrogen retention and the more growth. Tis why we use long esters during bulking and short esters during cuts.
Others will disagree on this too but I've looked into it and the research supports this claim I am making. Anyways, while I was taking Desoxy-T and DMZ, I was at my strongest ever. I'm much smaller than you guys are, only weighing about 170lbs right now but I wear it well. When I did Desoxy-T about 3 years ago, I weighed 162 and could bench 225 X 17 reps and squatted 315 X 16 reps, I believe. Most compare DTA to something like a combination of EQ/Mast in terms of visual effects but I think the strength gains and muscle gains were much stronger than those two.
For reference, here I go these days (4 weeks ago):
Invalid Link Removed
I usually have to clarify because a lot of forum members tend to assume the lighter the weight the less qualified the user. But at 270-300lbs, you'll definitely be able to tolerate considerably more gear than perhaps I would, so that might explain some of the gap between your dosing protocol and mine.
Oh and for Crohn's, look no further than BPC-157 and GHRP-6. Should reduce flare-ups to nil.
fritzer
Active member
Injectable pheraplex... interesting indeed
FRITZBLITZ
Banned
Ya what happened to this? I remember It being propped as an insane almost Tren like compound. Was there some major health issues that made this die off?
fueledpassion
Well-known member
More like the supply line died, I think. But now it appears to be making a comeback. I'm gonna grab a few personally. Stuff is versatile.
Nac
Well-known member
Lol, I was just reading an article "Esters: much more than just half-life..." which said exactly the same thing. Id always assumed test is test is test, but the article pretty well successfully debunked that for me.
fritzer
Active member
Looking great man!! Fantastic results and hard woek! Reps!!
I didn't assume anything, your responses themselves showed your knowledge! Any experience with mk677 / cjc/ipam?
I will try the bpc! Heard igf lr3 good too since attaches more to bowel. Will try anything. Was in best shape of life and then for 3 weeks worse and worse to point of no food for a week.
Sucks GH in Canada so iffy
fueledpassion
Well-known member
fueledpassion
Well-known member
BPC is naturally found in the gut to repair...you guessed it..the gut, lol. So yes, BPC taken orally or injected will hit systemically and help reduce inflammation in the gut.
CJC is comparable to low doses of GH, maybe even better in some ways but will surely cause excessive lethargy. I would consider trying MK before CJC at this point. Ipam is great but needs a GHRH to work as needed. A good combination would be MK and Ipam doses twice per day. CJC is often faked or not compounded properly and Mod-GRF is even harder to find legit.
Dosing for protocol mentioned above:
MK-677 ~ 10-12.5mg + Ipam @ 100mcg morning and PWO. The PWO Ipam dose I'd probably do 200mcg.
Nac
Well-known member
That was actually what made the article so compelling for me. It was logical, it married up with the abundance of anecdote, and Roberts references were plentiful. Perfect trifecta!
FRITZBLITZ
Banned
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
I know guys who've used the ipam/cjc/MK route and it was amazing but said they felt like slipping into a coma nearly round the clock. I've thought about it for a blast as it's much better price point than GH. But I haven't had best gonwith MK and my blood sugar
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Ever just consider getting some Lantus? Also, while I wouldn't take it every day, 400-500mg of Metformin every other night is effective at keeping BG down all day.
The reason insulin is used with growth hormone products is to prevent beta cell burnout and permanent damage - which eventually can lead to Type-I or Type-III diabetes.
The body creates basal insulin and Lantus taken 1-2 X per day can mimick the needed insulin to keep BG down while taking GH products. Contrary to popular belief, taking insulin doesn't cause beta cell burnout - it does just the opposite - giving your body a break and preserving those beta cells when taking things like GH and eating 400-800g of carbs per day.
Distilled Water
Board Sponsor
I was using Norvalin-R 3-4 times per week and doing 500mg metformin and 1000mg berbeine at night. I can run 6iu GH and be fine (also 10-20iu Humalog)
I fully understand the process (I'm a lot more advanced than most on here lol. I can see you are too). I was using smaller doses but I was also running higher amounts of the MK. I never had issues with CJC/Ipam and BG. Curious to see if I was to cut my dose in 1/2 (12.5mg MK) and run the others as is with a high/low scheme on daily carbs how that would work? Probably give it a go post show when I come off. It'll help keep my on track and my insulin sensativty will be prime at that point.
Damn, sorry were kind of hi-jacking the thread. lol PM me and we can discuss more unless OP is cool with open discussion
fueledpassion
Well-known member
You won't need 5iu Pre. The other two, assuming they are legit, will put IGF-1 levels deep into the hundreds...probably approaching 600-800.
There comes a point of diminishing returns. Time, consistency and finding your "stride" in terms of diet and training schedule is all you need to add to those supps above to get the benefits.
You'll likely need a basal insulin with all of those though and Humulin-R or Humalog on top of that as well. It would work 100% better if you did have those.
fritzer
Active member
I've seen studies on mk 677 elevating igf 1 and gh a nice amount but nothing like GH.
Wouldn't a cjc/ipam boom only raise GH for 90-120mins? And only once a day. Why woukd insulin etc become necessary
fueledpassion
Well-known member
You said an Ipam Boom..which I am assuming you are talking about the infamous idea DatbTrue put together regarding Ipam and boom dosing. Boom dosing starts at about a mg and really should be 2 full mg's at a time. Ipam has a life of about 5hrs in the blood BUT boom dosing has residual effects that can last for days, hence people often doing EOD schedules or even once per week on boom doses.
CJC..are you referring to mod-grf? If you are referring to the DAC version, it secretes around the clock and acts much like MK-677 but does so with an entirely different path of action. The two together would certainly be synergistic, just as CJC DAC is synergistic with other GHRP's like GHRP-2/6 and Ipam.
Anyways, boom dosing and a good MK source will get you into the 300+ range easily and depending on how much CJC w/ DAC you used, could be much, much higher than that. But I would encourage you to try and not get caught up with systemic numbers, because the systemic IGF/GH figures play very little role in actual muscle recovery and growth. Sure, they have some adjacent impact on anabolism but mostly the systemic elevation is what causes all the side effects that we want to be cautious in avoiding.
MK and Ipam are ghrelin mimickers that tell the pituitary to secrete GH, even in the midst of normal to high levels of somatostatin - a GH-inhibiting molecule in the body.
CJC and Mod BLOCK somatostatin, allowing the GHRP to really do what it is fully capable of. MK is a long-acting GHRP, CJC w/ DAC is a long-acting GHRH. The two make sense together and I'm sure they would work synergistically, as in not additively, but each would be enhanced by multiple factors.
Now, anecdotally speaking, MK-677 is getting as good of reviews as low dose GH. I keep hearing about this "Mike's MK", so I bought some today and will start it up when I'm finished running my GH kit in a week or two. Apparently there are other things needed to really make the MK-677 to shine properly. Anyways, the most important part of my post is now. Why do you need insulin? Yes, this is surely the most important part of the entire subject, really.
GH...as in, chronically high levels of systemic GH, reduce insulin sensitivity or in other words, increase insulin resistance. There is no way around this and honestly, this is the ONLY reason bodybuilders used insulin to begin with. Your beta cells are constantly producing insulin and have to increase the production dramatically to fight BG levels down due to the GH you are taking. Elevated GH increases BG levels by increasing insulin resistance. Chronically high BG levels is bad. Even worse, most people run GH products for 6-12 months at a time, meaning that this condition is not only a chronic issue but it occurs long enough to permanently burn out a portion of your beta cells. Keep doing this and over time your beta cells will eventually not be able to keep up. I could happen in your 40's but certainly by the time you are 50 years of age. All those carbs and all that GH kept a HUGE demand on a particular cell (beta) that had a terminal amount of work it could put out.
Running all that GH for so long and eating like a mad man to get dem "gainz", you basically made your beta cells produce 10 years of insulin in 2-3 years time.
Burnt. Out.
Welcome to Type-II Diabetes or, in the more common and less severe case, you only produce just enough insulin to not get ketoacidosis but because your BG levels are generally on the higher side, you start swelling in the mid-section and getting extra fat, extra easy because we know that how fat or lean people are is a direct function of their average BG levels. That's a known fact (as well as a strong correlation to heart disease and other ailments)
So you get a BG monitor and make sure you are waking up with a BG in the 70-85 range and you keep that sucker there with as much insulin as needed throughout the day. That's how you put on straight lean muscle mass and look huge w/ GH. You take slin.
Depending on how much you are taking will determine how much slin you need. Anything over 6iu worth of GH will probably require most people to run 10-15iu's of Lantus daily (two doses, not one) and a couple units of Humulin-R at each carbohydrate meal. You should be able to eat a decent portion and have your BG levels down to 85-90 within 2hrs time. The point is to give your beta cells some help and a break. They need to be normal but 6iu+ of GH coursing through your veins isn't "normal". So for every unit of basal insulin and fast-acting insulin you use, it's that much less demand on your beta cells. We want to supplement the beta cells not replace them and unlike the negative feedback loop, your beta cells won't forget how to make insulin - it's kinda like thyroid - there isn't an option where the body can "forget" how to produce such things because forgetting = death.
Make sense?
fritzer
Active member
Makes total sense. Thank You! I already use a glucometer if playing around with humalog 3x/week pre wo. If any fluctuation in sensitivity I stop for 4 weeks. No GH tho
What would you suggest Then?
1. Mk677 25mg a day
Cjc no dac / ghrp2 pre workout and before bed
Or
2. Mk677 25mg and cjc w dac , Maybe add ghrp2 pre wo and before bed.
I understand cjc w dac is like a bleed.. Not pulses. Wouldn't the no dac option spiking it those 2 times for 3 hours or so be better?
FRITZBLITZ
Banned
So after pasting all that good info that you posted, I would like your opinion. I have been taking MK for 2 months now [ I bought raw and made 15mg caps] started with 1 cap after WO [in the evening] and 1 cap before bed, I had to reduce to 1 cap before bed. I'm sure your aware that my cycle got interupted and I'm on Eq 450mg and Deca 450mg a week without Test. I had already overcome the MK tiredness after 1 month and only 15mg.
As of 2 weeks ago I have an odd metabolism problem. After a WO or even serious activity, I start to overheat like I'm taking a thermogenic fat burner. This can keep going for hours and nothing will slow it down. I've taken cold showers, put ice around my neck., it just feels like my metabolism is burning cals like crazy. I also get really hungry without an appitite. If I'm not in this metobolic state I have these crashes where I get very tired after eating or for no reason.
I was wondering if this had anything to do with insulin? My BG was smack in the middle last BW but I don't have a meter. What are your thoughts? And would a very very small amount of insulin help since 70/30 is OTC where I live.
FRITZBLITZ
Banned
I'm just bringing this back to the front cuz I really want to see this great cycle get polished and plunged into the muscle
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Get a BG monitor.
Pretty sure if you have Novolin 70/30 you probably also have Novolin-R (Humulin-R) as OTC. 70/30 has a different release profile that would need to be a trial and error effort to figure out how much you need. Since it comes on slowly, it is likely it wouldn't cause any hypoglycemia unless you injected into a vein or injected way too much at once.
Other than that, I have nothing else to comment on other than that I do not see any connection between your symptoms and BG. If you said you are sweating like crazy and really hungry all of the sudden, I would say your BG is very low and you need to eat. Generally, when you are in this state, you're less likely to get tired after you eat.
Contrary to what many think, getting tired after a meal is indicative of very high BG levels.
fritzer
Active member
btur2915
Member
i understand the bpc but what is the link between ghrp6 and chrons?
fueledpassion
Well-known member
Reduces inflammatiom in the intestines and increases gastric motility. I imagine it also supports healing the lining of the gut too.
Jee
New member
First of all thank everyone who has responded so much!! I think the test/EQ/Mast/Primo/low dose NP/deca it is!
Ill have to log itbeen a while. ill see if i can dig up my old logs, they were pretty crazy.
Yah, my tren sides... i sleep like a baby, sex drive through roof... but it makes me crazy. Not aggressive just nervous and paranoid and emotional haha. Ive never tried updosing. Usually make 5 weeks then cant wait to get off
How is log doing ?
FRITZBLITZ
Banned
buidlerpro
Banned
agree with that