Test E with NPP

justeat

justeat

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So the obvious thing here is running a long ester test with something short like NPP... I know (save the basic explanations here)... it’s what I have on hand here.

But- my thoughts to mitigate the obvious problem here would be to start the test e 3-4 weeks before I start the NPP, so that by the time I add in the NPP, my test levels will be elevated, thus providing the test base needed in order to let NPP shine, and prevent the side effects of NPP without a test base. What are you’re thoughts on this?

Sample cycle would be
Weeks 1-14 test e 400mg/week
Weeks 4-14 NPP 400mg/ week

Also, In the past I’ve ALWAYS ran my test lower than tren and had no sides- beautiful cycles. Since NPP is also a 19nor, would I possibly benefit from this too? The reason I didn’t plan that out this time, is bc of my research higher or equal test/nandrolone doses help prevent some of nandrolone’s common side effects (namely deca dick). Any thoughts or experience here?


Lastly, I was thinking of adding in an oral Kickstarter for those 4 test only weeks, starting the NPP right after the oral, or in its last week so that it kicks in right after the oral phases out.

I know this is a lot of questions and info, but any input is appreciated. Main question here is the compatibility of long test with NPP. (Also- after the first 4 weeks of test alone, I’d dose it EOD along with the NPP, obviously lowering each dose to keep the weekly totals the same)
 

jrock645

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Test E is fine. Your doses are fine. Adding an oral kicker is fine. Make sure you have an AI and id suggest caber or prami with NPP.
 
Nac

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TestE+NPP is a great combo, theres no need to match esters when stacking. The oral during the first 4 weeks is a good idea.

If youve run tren before then obviously keep your expectations realistic with NPP.
 
Whisky

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Agree with everything the fine gents above have said.

at 300/300 test/deca I personally had no dick issues and from what I’ve seen most don’t keeping it the same. I used a low dose of caber just to keep prolactin tidy (and honestly I just like caber for the bedroom effects 🤣).
 
justeat

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Thanks guys! From what I’ve read, with NPP in particular you can control prolactin issues via keeping estrogen in check, which seems unique to NPP.

For the sake of asking, if I were to start the test-e and NPP at the same time, would that be ok? My thoughts were that if NPP becomes active fast, the lack of elevated test for the first few weeks may spell some type of trouble. Any thoughts here? Or does my idea of starting test e a few weeks earlier a better idea?

Tren is great and I’d never expect anything to match it. I decided on NPP to try to get some bulk going. With tren I gain 5lbs and then my weight stays the same- obviously gaining muscle since I melt fat away. I started quarantine at 213lb and 10%bf , and after 2.5 months of working out with rubber bands I’ve ended up at 203 and probably 16-18%bf.

I’m choosing to continue natural for at least a month before this cycle, knowing that I’ll make crazy “noob” gains as I come back to the gym. I feel like hopping on a cycle immediately is a waste since I’ll grow like crazy as I start using real weights and start eating like a beast again.

As for the oral Kickstarter, my friend has some real superdrol. I’ve used it before at 10/20/20 and stopped after 3 weeks (not from sides- just bc it was enough for me lol). I’m thinking of using it at 10/10/10 for this cycle. I know people have all types of views of sdrol, but I know I can handle it well but I figure only 3 weeks at low doses would mitigate any bad sides while still being effective.
 
justeat

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Also, is 400/400 a decent dose? I have plenty of cycle experience, but chose modest doses since I’ve never ran NPP before. If anyone has run this before would you recommend tweaking the doses at all?
 

jrock645

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I did 350test, 500npp my first time with those. 400/400 is fair.
 
Nac

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Ive run test:npp 200:600, 500:500, etc etc etc

As long as you are dosing "effectively", which 400:400 certainly is, theres not huge differences between the ratios in my experience. The only caveat to this is if you respond really well to escalating doses of [compound-X], and the only way youll find that out is by trialling sh1t over time.
 
bad rad

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Ive run test:npp 200:600, 500:500, etc etc etc

As long as you are dosing "effectively", which 400:400 certainly is, theres not huge differences between the ratios in my experience. The only caveat to this is if you respond really well to escalating doses of [compound-X], and the only way youll find that out is by trialling sh1t over time.
There's a study that supports this. Total dosage affected gains more than drugs involved. Basically whether a single drug or mixed didn't matter. Read it over a decade ago in M.D.
 
justeat

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Interesting... maybe I’ll stick to my old thought path of dosing test a bit lower then the stronger compound to really let it do its job.

EOD dosing is really whatever daily dose you pin times 3.5 (7 total doses every 2 weeks evenly/ not just 3x a week bc you’d have an extra day. And I’m a firm believer in consistent dosing rather than say MWF dosing or something the like)... so if I pinned 120mg NPP eod it would be 420 a week. (My NPP is 200mg/ml)

My test e is standard 250mg/ml, so 100mg eod would be 350 a week.

This would end up with:
Test E 350mg/week
NPP 420mg/ week

That sounds solid. Doses close enough, with the NPP little higher. With a test dose like that I’d probably opt for .25 adex eod as well, unless I needed more to help control problems with the NPP
 
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justeat

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Has anyone heard that taking fish oil or olive oil (or any type of fat) along with dosing superdrol helps with its bioavailability?

Also for NpP users... when did you feel it kick in?

I’m going to do a light 3 week superdrol kickstart to this whole cycle. Debating on when to start the NPP... week 1, along with the test E and superdrol? Or maybe week 2, so that the NPP kicks in right as the superdrol drops off (NPP starting with one week of superdrol left?

Two options here I’m thinking:

Test E- Weeks 1-12 (2 weeks wait before pct)
NPP- Weeks 4-13 ( 1 week wait before pct)
Superdrol- weeks 1-3
(Total 14 weeks before pct)

Or

Test E- Weeks 1-12
NPP- 3-13 (week 3 would have sdrol and NPP)
Superdrol- weeks 1-3)

Superdrol dosed at 10/15/15. Going light. I’ve ran or solo at 20/30/30- the gains were great but I felt it’s negative effects on my body.


One last thing... I usually get one bottle of testP to assist with getting levels up in the beginning and then to also use in the last two weeks before pct while the test E clears out. I Hate just coasting two weeks with lowering test levels.
 
bad rad

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Most of the orals we use are absorbed better taken with a fatty meal. I've done 250mg Sust and 450mg NPP way back and didn't have issues with libido. I also had less estrogen sides. The older I get the more I like higher anabolics than higher testosterone.
 
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justeat

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Most of the orals we use are absorbed better taken with a fatty meal. I've done 250mg Sust and 450mg NPP way back and didn't have issues with libido. I also had less estrogen sides. The older I get the more I like higher anabolics than higher testosterone.
Thank you. Interesting. Just like with tren I’ve always ran that at a higher dose than test. I have no sides with it, and I’d prefer to let the stronger compound have more of my androgen receptor‘s, while using the test just as a base to maintain bodily functions.

At first thought I was going to apply the same principle with the NPP- until my research led me to believe that more people use it at a 1:1 ratio or even test higher to prevent some of the unique and PP side effects. Either way, I’m glad to hear you were account, another person who feels the stronger compound should be ran at a higher dose.

If you don’t mind me asking, what exactly was that cycle? Doses, timing, and end result gains. Was the NPP really wet? Also what kind of estrogen protection did you use? And also did you use any type of prami or caber? Did gains last?/ lost any water weight quickly?

Sorry for the barrage of questions it’s just tough to find somebody who’s ran similar cycles with a similar mindset as mine
 
bad rad

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That cycle was over 10 years ago so details are fuzzy and I ended up with parasites from my work location. Everything went wrong after that. I remember doses because I talked about them before.
 
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Nac

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Ive found NPP to be much "drier" than deca. The strength gains are not quite as dramatic, but I dont mind the trade-off due to the more favourable body comp effects.
 
justeat

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Ive found NPP to be much "drier" than deca. The strength gains are not quite as dramatic, but I dont mind the trade-off due to the more favourable body comp effects.
Interesting, good to hear. I was originally looking at deca for the pure bulking effects but water weight gain is no fun and the sides scare me. I’m hoping this cycle will yield a solid 10lbs, maybe loose a 1% or 2 of BF and really help get my strength back to what it was pre quarantine.

After this run I’m going to cruise on about 200 mg of test for two months and then do a test tren run for prep in my first amateur competition. This is a pic of me at the end of my last test tren cycle, right before quarantine 2/3 months ago. This was also with no strict diet whatsoever and just with my training philosophy.

Adjustments.JPG
 
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bad rad

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Based off that physique I don't think the planned cycle will cut it. Unless you're going to run (excluding tren) 800+ "anabolics" you'll probably be disappointed.
 
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Nac

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Hmmm, yeah that is some pretty advanced development.

I dunno, you said your last tren blast involved "no strict diet whatsoever". For sure, you will likely be underwhelmed with 400mg NPP if you did the same again (tren, and sdrol, are more forgiving in this respect as you probably know). Tighter diet though, you will certainly drain the NPP gains for all their worth.

600mg NPP might be more satisfying given your tren history etc.
 
justeat

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Hmmm, yeah that is some pretty advanced development.

I dunno, you said your last tren blast involved "no strict diet whatsoever". For sure, you will likely be underwhelmed with 400mg NPP if you did the same again (tren, and sdrol, are more forgiving in this respect as you probably know). Tighter diet though, you will certainly drain the NPP gains for all their worth.

600mg NPP might be more satisfying given your tren history etc.
Thank you, good things to think about. Maybe I’ll just run everything at slightly higher levels
 
justeat

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Anyone with experience in this cycle have any ideas with dosing if I were to up the doses? Since it seems everyone thinks the ones I proposed might be “underwhelming”. For bulking purposes I can always increase test levels but I’ve always found going over 600mg or so just doesn’t really give me much more gains. Of course it’s open to it.

I’ve also been reading that ppl judge results with adding the total number of MG being used? (Say 450 test and 500 npp would be considered using 950mg of gear total). Any thoughts on this?

I’m also fully aware to not expect tren like gains in strength. But with tren I never gain weight it ends up being a full recomp. I’ll gain 5lb and then just recomp the rest of the cycle. With this current cycle I’m looking to just add weight on to regain what I lost over the quarantine and get back go my normal strength levels while gaining some weight. The tren snd recomp will happen at Another time.
 
Nac

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Well you can certainly gain on very minimal amounts of gear, but this sensitivity is highly dependant on how primed you are to growth leading into the blast. Some factors which determine this sensitivity:

*Natty, or at most on low/trt doses leading into blast
*Eating kcal deficit (and low carbs) leading into blast, then gradually going to kcal surplus on blast
*Training volume and accumulated fatigue leading into blast (should be "low")

^those 3 variables will largely determine your response to blast doses.
 
justeat

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Well you can certainly gain on very minimal amounts of gear, but this sensitivity is highly dependant on how primed you are to growth leading into the blast. Some factors which determine this sensitivity:

*Natty, or at most on low/trt doses leading into blast
*Eating kcal deficit (and low carbs) leading into blast, then gradually going to kcal surplus on blast
*Training volume and accumulated fatigue leading into blast (should be "low")

^those 3 variables will largely determine your response to blast doses.
Thanks for the response- good things to think about.

1) I’ve been natty for about 3 months now (the first month was pct, so technically “fully natty” for 2 months). I’m also waiting a few more months before starting (so hard to do while the gear is sitting my drawer ready to go lol) so it will be about 4 months natural including the one month of pct by the time I start. I’m waiting as long as I can bc now that I’m back in the gym I’m making those “newbie gains”.

Each week my lifts go up by leaps and bounds just from using real weights again. In the 3 weeks since I’ve been back I’ve already gained 6 lbs back (obv mostly just getting that “swoll” back with glycogen storage back in action). And my big lifts bench/DL/squat- have been rising by 10-30lbs each week. For example pre quarantine I was Deadlifting 525... week 1 k just did a few sets of 185. Week 2 did a few sets of 315, and week 3 bumped up to 375 (could probably do more but don’t want to jump fhe gun and hurt myself since my body isn’t used to these real weights again)- and other lifts are progressing in a similar manner. I figure another 2-3 weeks and I’ll be approaching weights that’s are close enough to former performance that it will be more worthwhile to start the cycle then. Anything sooner is a waste in cycle if I’m gaining the way I am now.

2) my calorie intake is already lower then it was pre-quarantine simply bc my appetite and dedication to push the eating took a hit during the no gym period. I was taking in around 5000 cals then, and am now around 3800-4000 now. So do you suggest purposely keeping it at this amount till cycle starts, or still work to slowly increasing that now?

3) same idea as With the diet. The first 3 weeks coming back I’m doing basic low volume compound workouts, upper lower split slowly building volume. After next week I’ll start up a normal split. So naturally My volume is relatively low and building at whatever pace works for me. Once the real workout split starts I’ll be able to really monitor and control the volume increases.
 
Nac

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Diet can be tricky and quite an individual thing: I dont want to suggest anything too specific and steer you wrong.

I guess all I was trying to suggest was, there are ways to increase growth sensitivity, which will only maximise the effects of a cycle regardless of dose.
 
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justeat

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Diet can be tricky and quite an individual thing: I dont want to suggest anything too specific and steer you wrong.

I guess all I was trying to suggest was, there are ways to increase growth sensitivity, which will only maximise the effects of a cycle regardless of dose.
Well luckily the quarantine and lack of gym have ended Up putting me at a calorie deficit and lowered my training volume quite a bit. Another week or so and i figure my numbers will be appropriate to start this cycle while still leaving room to increase both of these factors.
 
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