Test cyp/npp/dbol?

[Mh427]

I’m going to run my first true stack cycle I’ve run test alone (400mg) and test and anavar (350mg/40mg ED) before and want to step it up. I am going to run

wk 1-12 Test cyp 300mg/wk
wk 1-12 NPP 300mg/wk
wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg ED

should I keep the test and npp at the same dose? Or should I switch up the dosages I also have caber and aromasin on hand for estrogen and prolactin just in case.

 

[Mikereyn513]

I would cut the npp dose in half. Rule of thumb is nandrolone should be dosed st half your test to oregebt deca dick. Also why dbol in the beginning instead of st the end?

 

[Mh427]

I would cut the npp dose in half. Rule of thumb is nandrolone should be dosed st half your test to oregebt deca dick. Also why dbol in the beginning instead of st the end?

I’m doing it at the begging to kickstart the cycle… would it be better at the end?

 

[Burnfire]

I would run the test 500 npp 250-300mg. If your going to run a cycle run decent doses imo not half of what’s needed to gain the goal. Also I’d run the oral at the end as well so your not starting your cycle feeling like **** and with an oral.

 

[Mh427]

I would run the test 500 npp 250-300mg. If your going to run a cycle run decent doses imo not half of what’s needed to gain the goal. Also I’d run the oral at the end as well so your not starting your cycle feeling like **** and with an oral.

Would 400mg test 200mg npp be fine so it’s a 2:1. Starting with dbol would make me feel like garbage after coming off?

 

[Mlane33]

I am doing the same. 500 Test C and 400 NPP. 2nd time w/ test and Nandrolone (1st cycle was 500 test and 300-400 Deca with some NPP mixed in). I would take some kind of anti-prolactin supplement or B-6. With my last cycle, I relied mostly on supps. I only took Caber once or twice. My prolactin levels only went from normal low to normal high.

 

[Mh427]

I am doing the same. 500 Test C and 400 NPP. 2nd time w/ test and Nandrolone (500 test and 300-400 Deca with some NPP mixed in). I would take some kind of anti-prolactin supplement or B-6. With my last cycle, I relied mostly on supps. I only took Caber once or twice. My prolactin levels only went from normal low to normal high.

Did you have any other problems aside from the minor prolactin you mentioned since the npp/deca was at 400mg?

 

[Burnfire]

Everyone is different. I’ve ran deca to test 2:1 and 1.5:1 both times didn’t have an issue with e2 or prolactin. I was On top of the p5p about a month before I started the deca. Also was taking DIM not sure how much that helped. Really was a bad as cycle. Oh yeah also some inject epistane almost forgot about the diamond. Wish I’d bought more.

 

[Falco1098]

I’m doing it at the begging to kickstart the cycle… would it be better at the end?

I never understand this kickstarting. You are lifting the lightest weights at the beginning of the blast and are fresh. With 4 weeks to go you are a bit worn out and lifting the heaviest weigths.

Which one needs the extra push?

 

[Mlane33]

Did you have any other problems aside from the minor prolactin you mentioned since the npp/deca was at 400mg?

no

 

[Mlane33]

Everyone is different. I’ve ran deca to test 2:1 and 1.5:1 both times didn’t have an issue with e2 or prolactin. I was On top of the p5p about a month before I started the deca. Also was taking DIM not sure how much that helped. Really was a bad as cycle. Oh yeah also some inject epistane almost forgot about the diamond. Wish I’d bought more.

From what I've read about DIMs and my experience w/ it, I believe it kills bad estrogen but encourages the production of regular or good estrogen. It's not really an AI

 

[skinnybones]

Subd please log this cycle for us.
good luck

 

[Mikereyn513]

You run the cycle at the end when the test and deca start to plateu and you get that attractive push also yiu don't want to tank liver values and lipids right at the beginning of the cycle when you're primed for growth. The only reason the Kickstart thing started was because bros were too impatient to wait 3 weeks for test to "kick in" the only way I run an oral in the beginning is if I'm also running one st the end of a 16-20 week cycle like anadrol first 4 weeks then go 8 weeks then do anavar last 4 weeks as a finisher

 

[Mikereyn513]

Based on your compound choice this a bulking cycle yea? What are your stats?

 

[Mh427]

Based on your compound choice this a bulking cycle yea? What are your stats?

Yes it’s a bulking cycle, 6’2 197 fasted around 16-17% bf

 

[mTOR25]

I’m going to run my first true stack cycle I’ve run test alone (400mg) and test and anavar (350mg/40mg ED) before and want to step it up. I am going to run

wk 1-12 Test cyp 300mg/wk
wk 1-12 NPP 300mg/wk
wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg ED

should I keep the test and npp at the same dose? Or should I switch up the dosages I also have caber and aromasin on hand for estrogen and prolactin just in case.

I personally would run this of you already have these compounds?

Wk 1 to 12 Testosterone C 350mg EW, Nandrolone PP 200mg EW
Wk 7 to 12 Methandrostenolone 10mg PreWO only OR 30mg ED for 4 weeks but your gonna blow up with fluid with that Nandrolone?

I personally think Nandrolone and Dianabol together is a mistake but it's your choice? I really hope your being careful with gyno prevention and general side effect control? Have blood pressure medication on standby please that's the biggest threat with this cycle oh and of course the gyno?

I think you shouldn't introduce two new compounds so personally I am going to push for you to decide on this excellent bulking cycle with similar parameters to your original...

Wk 1 to 12 Testosterone C 350mg EW, Nandrolone PP 200mg EW
Wk 7 to 12 Oxandrolone 40mg ED

That will be hood but be warned that Nandrolone even in Phenylpropionate form is gonna take a long time to clear your system and will most likely hinder recovery? Nandrolone is notorious for having long clearance rates. I even personally believe that the decay constant isn't a real constant but that's my own theory looking at the half life versus detection periods but I am just guessing? I think the decay "constant" is itself also proportional to the starting material but in actuality mediated through some variable enzymatic reaction that is related to the material only so far as the enzyme depletes proportional to total material and enzyme concentration creating a partial differential equation rather then the simple ODEs used for decay models but?

 

[mTOR25]

I’m going to run my first true stack cycle I’ve run test alone (400mg) and test and anavar (350mg/40mg ED) before and want to step it up. I am going to run

wk 1-12 Test cyp 300mg/wk
wk 1-12 NPP 300mg/wk
wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg ED

should I keep the test and npp at the same dose? Or should I switch up the dosages I also have caber and aromasin on hand for estrogen and prolactin just in case.

You could do a 400/200 ratio to be safer but for me 350/200 is fine and I am someone who suffers from severe ED sides if I skew too much towards Nandrolone! Just make sure you have an estrogenc
control, Prolactin Control, blood pressure, and maybe some ED medication on standby? Some people suffer terrible sides from Nandrolone so better to be safer?

I personally would also start running p5p as well just to be safer!

 

[Mh427]

I personally would run this of you already have these compounds?

Wk 1 to 12 Testosterone C 350mg EW, Nandrolone PP 200mg EW
Wk 7 to 12 Methandrostenolone 10mg PreWO only OR 30mg ED for 4 weeks but your gonna blow up with fluid with that Nandrolone?

I personally think Nandrolone and Dianabol together is a mistake but it's your choice? I really hope your being careful with gyno prevention and general side effect control? Have blood pressure medication on standby please that's the biggest threat with this cycle oh and of course the gyno?

I think you shouldn't introduce two new compounds so personally I am going to push for you to decide on this excellent bulking cycle with similar parameters to your original...

Wk 1 to 12 Testosterone C 350mg EW, Nandrolone PP 200mg EW
Wk 7 to 12 Oxandrolone 40mg ED

That will be hood but be warned that Nandrolone even in Phenylpropionate form is gonna take a long time to clear your system and will most likely hinder recovery? Nandrolone is notorious for having long clearance rates. I even personally believe that the decay constant isn't a real constant but that's my own theory looking at the half life versus detection periods but I am just guessing? I think the decay "constant" is itself also proportional to the starting material but in actuality mediated through some variable enzymatic reaction that is related to the material only so far as the enzyme depletes proportional to total material and enzyme concentration creating a partial differential equation rather then the simple ODEs used for decay models but?

Thank you for the response, I have aromasin on hand and I am going to start p5p now a few weeks before I start for prolactin control. As far as blood pressure I will be checking it 3x a day and I am going to be taking blood pressure by revive MD ive heard good things about it. I plan on cruising after the cycle is over (100mg of test per week) just because I plan on running more cycles in the future after this because I plan to compete within the next year. Do you have any reccomendations to control blood pressure? As far as the dianabol should I just keep it for a separate cycle maybe just test/dbol?

 

[Mh427]

I personally would run this of you already have these compounds?

Wk 1 to 12 Testosterone C 350mg EW, Nandrolone PP 200mg EW
Wk 7 to 12 Methandrostenolone 10mg PreWO only OR 30mg ED for 4 weeks but your gonna blow up with fluid with that Nandrolone?

I personally think Nandrolone and Dianabol together is a mistake but it's your choice? I really hope your being careful with gyno prevention and general side effect control? Have blood pressure medication on standby please that's the biggest threat with this cycle oh and of course the gyno?

I think you shouldn't introduce two new compounds so personally I am going to push for you to decide on this excellent bulking cycle with similar parameters to your original...

Wk 1 to 12 Testosterone C 350mg EW, Nandrolone PP 200mg EW
Wk 7 to 12 Oxandrolone 40mg ED

That will be hood but be warned that Nandrolone even in Phenylpropionate form is gonna take a long time to clear your system and will most likely hinder recovery? Nandrolone is notorious for having long clearance rates. I even personally believe that the decay constant isn't a real constant but that's my own theory looking at the half life versus detection periods but I am just guessing? I think the decay "constant" is itself also proportional to the starting material but in actuality mediated through some variable enzymatic reaction that is related to the material only so far as the enzyme depletes proportional to total material and enzyme concentration creating a partial differential equation rather then the simple ODEs used for decay models but?

Thank you for the response, I have aromasin on hand and I am going to start p5p now a few weeks before I start for prolactin control. As far as blood pressure I will be checking it 3x a day and I am going to be taking blood pressure by revive MD ive heard good things about it. I plan on cruising after the cycle is over (100mg of test per week) just because I plan on running more cycles in the future after this because I plan to compete within the next year. Do you have any reccomendations to control blood pressure? As far as the dianabol should I just keep it for a separate cycle maybe just test/dbol?

You could do a 400/200 ratio to be safer but for me 350/200 is fine and I am someone who suffers from severe ED sides if I skew too much towards Nandrolone! Just make sure you have an estrogenc
control, Prolactin Control, blood pressure, and maybe some ED medication on standby? Some people suffer terrible sides from Nandrolone so better to be safer?

I personally would also start running p5p as well just to be safer!

I do have ED medication on hand, I have these sides with things Ive ran in the past so Its good to see im not the only one

 

[mTOR25]

Thank you for the response, I have aromasin on hand and I am going to start p5p now a few weeks before I start for prolactin control. As far as blood pressure I will be checking it 3x a day and I am going to be taking blood pressure by revive MD ive heard good things about it. I plan on cruising after the cycle is over (100mg of test per week) just because I plan on running more cycles in the future after this because I plan to compete within the next year. Do you have any reccomendations to control blood pressure? As far as the dianabol should I just keep it for a separate cycle maybe just test/dbol?

I would get some blood pressure medication to have on hand such as an ARB like telmersartan is a good one. Hopefully you won't require it but good to have just in case? ACE inhibitors work just as well but the ARBs seem to be more protective against LVH? I run a few during my cycles but I have blood pressure sides easily. I personally run Telmersartan and Nebivolol which I find to be very effective for blood pressure but also works as a general heart healthy combination reducing risk of LVH and kidney damage as well! I also take pravastatin for cholesterol control.

Pravastatin is not lypophilic like other statins so the chance for muscle related side effects is much lower and generally very well tolerated!

 

[mTOR25]

Thank you for the response, I have aromasin on hand and I am going to start p5p now a few weeks before I start for prolactin control. As far as blood pressure I will be checking it 3x a day and I am going to be taking blood pressure by revive MD ive heard good things about it. I plan on cruising after the cycle is over (100mg of test per week) just because I plan on running more cycles in the future after this because I plan to compete within the next year. Do you have any reccomendations to control blood pressure? As far as the dianabol should I just keep it for a separate cycle maybe just test/dbol?

As far as the dianabol it really depends on blood pressure and water retention from the Nandrolone? I personally think one shouldn't use two new steroids simultaneously so I would stick to my recommendation of waiting atleast until the 7th week to start the dianabol and running it only as a preworkout? 10mg PreWO will have a substantial effect on your cycle but won't generally cause untolerable side effects due to the rapid clearance and overall low dosage! In my opinion taking dianabol at the end of the cycle for the last 4 weeks would just blow you up like a balloon and then make the body dysmorphia effect stronger when you lose alot of the fullness you experience? It's your call I personally think orals should be used strategically for effect and dianabol has too much water retention. Sure it can fill you out but the puffiness makes that effect ineffective? Anadrol works better for that although I pretty much stick to anavar as far as orals go myself because I'm not competing and I try to be as healthy as possible. Dianabol preworkout though is something I break that for just because it makes me feel amazing and the rapid clearance makes sides very low in that application!

 

[mTOR25]

Thank you for the response, I have aromasin on hand and I am going to start p5p now a few weeks before I start for prolactin control. As far as blood pressure I will be checking it 3x a day and I am going to be taking blood pressure by revive MD ive heard good things about it. I plan on cruising after the cycle is over (100mg of test per week) just because I plan on running more cycles in the future after this because I plan to compete within the next year. Do you have any reccomendations to control blood pressure? As far as the dianabol should I just keep it for a separate cycle maybe just test/dbol?

I do have ED medication on hand, I have these sides with things Ive ran in the past so Its good to see im not the only one

Well warning Nandrolone is notorious for that side effect and I get some reduction in hardness no matter how much other androgens I take with it? It's not enough to lose my erection during sex but it's noticeable!

Good news is that effect usually comes later in the cycle and with 12 weeks for me I'd only have a few weeks of that effect? Dianabol makes me hard as a rock though lol. Testosterone is neutral and most of the DHT based steroids also make my libido and hardness increase as well. Dianabol though is the strongest lol!!!

Oh and Boldenone is also completely neutral with respect that that effect as well?

 

[Mh427]

As far as the dianabol it really depends on blood pressure and water retention from the Nandrolone? I personally think one shouldn't use two new steroids simultaneously so I would stick to my recommendation of waiting atleast until the 7th week to start the dianabol and running it only as a preworkout? 10mg PreWO will have a substantial effect on your cycle but won't generally cause untolerable side effects due to the rapid clearance and overall low dosage! In my opinion taking dianabol at the end of the cycle for the last 4 weeks would just blow you up like a balloon and then make the body dysmorphia effect stronger when you lose alot of the fullness you experience? It's your call I personally think orals should be used strategically for effect and dianabol has too much water retention. Sure it can fill you out but the puffiness makes that effect ineffective? Anadrol works better for that although I pretty much stick to anavar as far as orals go myself because I'm not competing and I try to be as healthy as possible. Dianabol preworkout though is something I break that for just because it makes me feel amazing and the rapid clearance makes sides very low in that application!

Will taking dianabol preworkout only yield effects/build muscle or is it sort of a feel good/pump type of thing?

 

[Mh427]

As far as the dianabol it really depends on blood pressure and water retention from the Nandrolone? I personally think one shouldn't use two new steroids simultaneously so I would stick to my recommendation of waiting atleast until the 7th week to start the dianabol and running it only as a preworkout? 10mg PreWO will have a substantial effect on your cycle but won't generally cause untolerable side effects due to the rapid clearance and overall low dosage! In my opinion taking dianabol at the end of the cycle for the last 4 weeks would just blow you up like a balloon and then make the body dysmorphia effect stronger when you lose alot of the fullness you experience? It's your call I personally think orals should be used strategically for effect and dianabol has too much water retention. Sure it can fill you out but the puffiness makes that effect ineffective? Anadrol works better for that although I pretty much stick to anavar as far as orals go myself because I'm not competing and I try to be as healthy as possible. Dianabol preworkout though is something I break that for just because it makes me feel amazing and the rapid clearance makes sides very low in that application!

In your experience with dbol have you made gains with it and lost them when u come off or are you saying you lose the “puffiness” which makes u appear bigger due to the water retention. I’ve heard guys say it builds tons of muscle and heard others say it just makes them bloated and look like the Michelin man

 

[Mikereyn513]

I would start test/ npp instead of test/dbol. If you're going to keep doing this you're going to need to find some sort 19-nor. I love deca but start with npp that way if the sides are too bad it'll be out if your system in 10 days not 30! Again if your competing you're probably gonna want to stay away from dbol. There's so many better options and if this is a "bulking" cycle I wouldn't even use an oral. With bulking you want yo use as little as possible and let the food and training do its thing. Long extensive complex cycles are for pre contest only

 

[Mh427]

I would start test/ npp instead of test/dbol. If you're going to keep doing this you're going to need to find some sort 19-nor. I love deca but start with npp that way if the sides are too bad it'll be out if your system in 10 days not 30! Again if your competing you're probably gonna want to stay away from dbol. There's so many better options and if this is a "bulking" cycle I wouldn't even use an oral. With bulking you want yo use as little as possible and let the food and training do its thing. Long extensive complex cycles are for pre contest only

Do you think throwing the dbol in the last 4 weeks would be worth it because I’ve already bought the dbol and have it on hand? Trying to put as much weight and size on as I can then going to cruise for 2 months and then probably do something like test eq and var to see how “stage ready” i can get on my own without a coach or would that be a waste of time without a coach?

 

[Smont]

I’m going to run my first true stack cycle I’ve run test alone (400mg) and test and anavar (350mg/40mg ED) before and want to step it up. I am going to run

wk 1-12 Test cyp 300mg/wk
wk 1-12 NPP 300mg/wk
wk 1-4 Dbol 40mg ED

should I keep the test and npp at the same dose? Or should I switch up the dosages I also have caber and aromasin on hand for estrogen and prolactin just in case.

You already ran your first stack, test and anavar.

Anyways, the reason ppl get deca dick is high estrogen and prolactin on deca. The classic test deca dbol cycle is great for two things, gaining weight fast (notice I said weight and not muscle) and getting erectile dysfunction.

It does build muscle obviously it's steroids and it builds muscle just as fast as everything else does but it gives the illusion of more muscle because a lot of it's water weight.

Adding 2 new steroids is not the greatest idea either.


Because you already ran test and VAR I would do something like 400-500 test, 200-300npp and after 6-8 weeks if everything was going fine I would throw the var back in.

 

[Mh427]

You already ran your first stack, test and anavar.

Anyways, the reason ppl get deca dick is high estrogen and prolactin on deca. The classic test deca dbol cycle is great for two things, gaining weight fast (notice I said weight and not muscle) and getting erectile dysfunction.

It does build muscle obviously it's steroids and it builds muscle just as fast as everything else does but it gives the illusion of more muscle because a lot of it's water weight.

Adding 2 new steroids is not the greatest idea either.


Because you already ran test and VAR I would do something like 400-500 test, 200-300npp and after 6-8 weeks if everything was going fine I would throw the var back in.

So the dbol is a waste in this case? After this cycle without the dbol would test/dbol alone be a good cycle?

 

[Smont]

So the dbol is a waste in this case? After this cycle without the dbol would test/dbol alone be a good cycle?

Define waste, I didn't say that. Just because you're not going to use something or might not use something doesn't make it a waste you can just save it for another time or you can use it right now. There's no rules to this you can do anything you want you just came into a thread and you asked for advice so people are giving you advice.

Most of will advise against adding two new compounds in one cycle because you don't know how you're going to respond to them so if you start to cycle with all three of these things and you end up with acne or erectile dysfunction or any other thing else you're not going to know what to adjust or remove between the NPP and the dbol.

Orals don't really have a good place in a mass phase because they mostly just add a temporary cosmetic look unless you wanna comit to running them 8 weeks or longer which also isn't the greatest idea.

If you definitely want to run test npp dbol then add them one at a time so you can get use to them.

There's no rules to doing this stuff you can literally do whatever you want. You can take every single anabolic in existence and put them in one cycle and run them at a thousand milligrams each if you want lol.

We're just trying to set you up with a plan that's going to allow for the most growth with the least side effects, or potential for side effects

 

[Smont]

Another alternative would be test and dbol without the npp. But I'd only use the dbol pre workout 4-5x week and then you can run it a little bit longer. Maybe you get 4-5 weeks in and you notice you have no side effects and then you add NPP.


There's 100 ways to skin this cat

 

[Mh427]

Define waste, I didn't say that. Just because you're not going to use something or might not use something doesn't make it a waste you can just save it for another time or you can use it right now. There's no rules to this you can do anything you want you just came into a thread and you asked for advice so people are giving you advice.

Most of will advise against adding two new compounds in one cycle because you don't know how you're going to respond to them so if you start to cycle with all three of these things and you end up with acne or erectile dysfunction or any other thing else you're not going to know what to adjust or remove between the NPP and the dbol.

Orals don't really have a good place in a mass phase because they mostly just add a temporary cosmetic look unless you wanna comit to running them 8 weeks or longer which also isn't the greatest idea.

If you definitely want to run test npp dbol then add them one at a time so you can get use to them.

There's no rules to doing this stuff you can literally do whatever you want. You can take every single anabolic in existence and put them in one cycle and run them at a thousand milligrams each if you want lol.

We're just trying to set you up with a plan that's going to allow for the most growth with the least side effects, or potential for side effects

Well said, what I meant by waste was that is it just not a good compound to use at all. Which it sounds like you’ll put on some size for those couple of weeks then lose it? So the risk outweighs the reward imo if you will not keep what u put on

 

[Mh427]

Another alternative would be test and dbol without the npp. But I'd only use the dbol pre workout 4-5x week and then you can run it a little bit longer. Maybe you get 4-5 weeks in and you notice you have no side effects and then you add NPP.


There's 100 ways to skin this cat

Thank you for the advice I think I will definitely be trying this out. Would this work if i ran the Test/npp for 4 weeks if no sides then throw in the dbol pre workout for a week or 2 and see how it affects me and if nothing serious throw it in the cycle in the middle of it?

 

[Smont]

Well said, what I meant by waste was that is it just not a good compound to use at all. Which it sounds like you’ll put on some size for those couple of weeks then lose it? So the risk outweighs the reward imo if you will not keep what u put on

Well think about it, the average person on steroids adds about 10lbs of muscle per year. This is why we see bodybuilders gain 40-50lbs in the offseason and then step on stage only 8-10lbs heavier next year. Or we see a guy on the form saying he gained 20 lb on this cycle and then he gained 20 lb on this other cycle yet 5 years down the road he's only gained a total of 10 pounds. Because the orals mostly give you water and glycogen storage in the muscles and that disappears when you stop using them. Now if you stayed on a oral for just as long as an injectable then yeah I could probably build more muscle and it will given that you don't screw up all your health markers in the process. If you're unhealthy because your liver and cholesterol and everything else is out of whack then you're not going to add a lot of muscle in the first place.

At the end of the day you just got to pick something and run with it and if it goes wrong you take it out and try something different next time because you can ask us 50 million questions but until you do it for yourself you're not going to know what's going to happen

 

[Mh427]

Well think about it, the average person on steroids adds about 10lbs of muscle per year. This is why we see bodybuilders gain 40-50lbs in the offseason and then step on stage only 8-10lbs heavier next year. Or we see a guy on the form saying he gained 20 lb on this cycle and then he gained 20 lb on this other cycle yet 5 years down the road he's only gained a total of 10 pounds. Because the orals mostly give you water and glycogen storage in the muscles and that disappears when you stop using them. Now if you stayed on a oral for just as long as an injectable then yeah I could probably build more muscle and it will given that you don't screw up all your health markers in the process. If you're unhealthy because your liver and cholesterol and everything else is out of whack then you're not going to add a lot of muscle in the first place.

At the end of the day you just got to pick something and run with it and if it goes wrong you take it out and try something different next time because you can ask us 50 million questions but until you do it for yourself you're not going to know what's going to happen

I’ll take this all into consideration thanks for the help!

 

[Mikereyn513]

If you already have the dbol then you may want to throw it in at the end if you're feeling good and progressing up to you but I lost nearly everything I "gained " in July ( I'm finishing up a very successful cut right now) but I agree with pretty much what @Smont said. If I have any questions I usually refer to him or @Hyde There are few others on here you'll get to know that are really knowledgeable if you stick around. Most of all just keep am open mind which it seems like you have. That's most important. Secondly after you come up with a plan stick to it and don't deviate you won't get anywhere doing that

 

[Mh427]

When you came off did you cruise or pct? No

If you already have the dbol then you may want to throw it in at the end if you're feeling good and progressing up to you but I lost nearly everything I "gained " in July ( I'm finishing up a very successful cut right now) but I agree with pretty much what @Smont said. If I have any questions I usually refer to him or @Hyde There are few others on here you'll get to know that are really knowledgeable if you stick around. Most of all just keep am open mind which it seems like you have. That's most important. Secondly after you come up with a plan stick to it and don't deviate you won't get anywhere doing that

When you came off did you pct or cruise? Not sure if it would make a difference just wondering

 

[Mikereyn513]

When you came off did you cruise or pct? No

When you came off did you pct or cruise? Not sure if it would make a difference just wondering

Cruised on 250/ week and still lost most. I mainly believe dbol is still around primarily because of the name branding and the golden Era guys it's associated with. I doubt any pro has used it seriously other than maybe PWO once in a while on decades