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Test C/ Tbol- First Cycle, Critique me.

I think I may have figured out that it was just a lack of sleep thing... some days I will take some sleep aid. That shouldn't affect anything. Weigh ins tomorrow!
 
Nice gains man... 3lb a week (close enough).

What's the water bloat looking like? Also how has your day gain been?

3lb a week is quite a lot.
 
grinnell27 said:
Nice gains man... 3lb a week (close enough). What's the water bloat looking like? Also how has your day gain been? 3lb a week is quite a lot.
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Well this weeks gain was about 1.5 pounds. I dont think i am really getting anymore bloat since i started my AI. (First 10 days was 10 pounds, then i started AI) What do you mean by day gain? What My weight diff is from morning to night?
 
TonyGunsling said:
I am about to put my order in and just want some final approval/critiques.

-2 250mg/10ml of Test Cyp
-100 Tabs Tbol
-20 25mg Exemestane (on hand)
-50 50mg Nolvadex

This will be my first cycle. And im looking for more of an edge than others putting in their time in the kitchen and gym.
My plan
Test- 400mg/wk 1-10
Tbol- 15-40mg/day wks 1-4
Exemestane- 12.5 E3D (beginning whens signs show)


PCT-7 days after last pin.
Nolva 50/50/25/25
DAA 3mg/day
Creatine Mono 5mg/day
Erase pro starting at 3rd week of PCT to further prevent estrogen rebound.
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you dont have the aas understanding to do this properly imo.
Nolva does NOT lower estrogen, only blocks it at breast etc. and leave estrogen to flood the rest... so no,,, nolva is not an AI or to be used as one. I rec Dex 0.25-0.5mg eod, stane 25mg ed or letro 0.25-0.6mg e3d.

also you dont have enough test, get another bottle... you lose some everytime you pin. for every 10ml, look at it as 9ml to be safe. and run cycle to 12-13 weeks till finished test.
for PCT do a combo of clomid and nolva: 20mg nolva ed for 4 weeks along with 35-50mg clomid ed for the same amount of time.

Good luck

* use AI from start. and 12.5mg ed is too low, let alone e3d..... most dont dose stane high enough... use dex IMO and use AI from week one and stop when starting PCT.
 
Blergs said:
you dont have the aas understanding to do this properly imo.
Nolva does NOT lower estrogen, only blocks it at breast etc. and leave estrogen to flood the rest... so no,,, nolva is not an AI or to be used as one. I rec Dex 0.25-0.5mg eod, stane 25mg ed or letro 0.25-0.6mg e3d.

also you dont have enough test, get another bottle... you lose some everytime you pin. for every 10ml, look at it as 9ml to be safe. and run cycle to 12-13 weeks till finished test.
for PCT do a combo of clomid and nolva: 20mg nolva ed for 4 weeks along with 35-50mg clomid ed for the same amount of time.

Good luck

* use AI from start. and 12.5mg ed is too low, let alone e3d..... most dont dose stane high enough... use dex IMO and use AI from week one and stop when starting PCT.
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Listen to this guy! I don't understand why aromasin has so much hype? The whole suicide ai is so misunderstood as well as the rebounding e2! Estrogen does not rebound so there is no need for ai during pct.
 
And you need to wait another week at least for the test to clear and start pct. Half lives build up it actually takes almost three weeks to clear but most guys start pct after two weeks which is fine.

This is why I believe anyone who wants to cycle correctly should switch over to prop for the last month or for at least three weeks of cycle so transitioning into pct is easier and faster. When your levels drop at one point they will be to low to maintain your newly made muscle but to high for the serms to take affect. By switching to prop instead of having that window stretch for 7-8 days maybe longer it'll only be 1 day or maybe 1 1/2. You can also use an oral if you don't like prop. Of you were to run the oral for 4 weeks then start on your second to last week of injections and continue for two week after your last injection so while test is clearing you can maintain with the oral. This is known as bridging.
 
I'm on TRT 125 mg test e and 20mg TBOL plus 20mg nolvadex . amazing cycle

you don't need the AI . and use nolvadex at 20mg pct ..
 
swole33 said:
I'm on TRT 125 mg test e and 20mg TBOL plus 20mg nolvadex . amazing cycle

you don't need the AI . and use nolvadex at 20mg pct ..
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Okay no disrespect but you have no idea what your talking about! 125 mg will put you at the high end maybe slightly higher then normal test levels so estrogen won't be an issue especially since tbol doesn't aromatize. But this guys is think of doing almost triple your test dose alone. And Nolva won't do anything but block estrogen at receptors in the chest. So yes it will stop gyno but it won't lower estrogen which can cause prostate cancer, heart attack, stroke or blood clots.
No one will pin 125 as a cycle because its basically replacing your natural test. I mean glad you are making results but you obviously are either older, have a problem with your htpa or you are a troll. At some point your body will peak and then you will either blast or add other compounds to increase gains.
 
Viking23 said:
Listen to this guy! I don't understand why aromasin has so much hype? The whole suicide ai is so misunderstood as well as the rebounding e2! Estrogen does not rebound so there is no need for ai during pct.
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Estrogen most definatley can rebound. I ended up with gyno from e rebounded from letro
 
Can you give me a little more detail on what was going on? Were you in mid cycle and then discontinued ai but continued cycle? Did you just use letro to try and combat gyno from a former cycle?
 
Just used letro for a previous cycle. Granted I was 16 and had no idea wtf I was doing. Rebound can happen.
 
mus said:
Just used letro for a previous cycle. Granted I was 16 and had no idea wtf I was doing. Rebound can happen.
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See when you say rebound you just mean your e2 came back to where it originally I assume. However the word rebound would actually be used if estrogen returned even higher than it was originally which is never the case. I probably should have explained that before. But with that being said you may have been the unlucky guy that was prone to pubescent gyno. Can't say it was rebound because you messed with your endocrine before it was ever developed. A lot of guys that blame this so called rebound are either A) using a OTC supp that raised their estrogen or at least raised their susceptibility to e2 side effects or B) they were not fully recovered and stopped their serms to early which can cause this.

My bad should have clarified that before. And everyone should get blood work done when messing with their hormones so then you will know what is going on. Blood work is key!
 
Just used letro for a previous cycle. Granted I was 16 and had no idea wtf I was doing. Rebound can happen.
 
You still never gave me any details to work with bud. First you were 16 and may have been prone to gyno because your endo system was still maturing. However, I can't just guess. until you explain your cycle and give me more insight I can't help. You making all these blind statements.

Hey I got a great ocean view house in the middle of Kansas! Its going real cheap and looks great but I can't show you any pictures or give any details. You just got to trust me! smh
 

I'm gone for a day and this happens!?

Enough with the Thread jack guys!

This is where I am at now in my cycle.
5 1/2 weeks in.
-Test has been at 200mg x 2/week (mon/thurs)
-Tbol 40mg days 1-25 (smaller bottle than supplier told me)
-began AI about 2 weeks in. (The slight itchy and tenderness went away)
-1st vial has 1 or 2 doses left, which puts me at 6+ weeks half way. My thoughts are to increase to 250/250mg during the week. Up the dose. Finish sooner.
-gains have been great. On scale. In the gym. And mentally.

Whats wrong with the way I am taking my AI? And how would I prevent "rebound" after cycle with this AI as my choice?
 
Sorry man just trying to help some others.

And you won't have any rebound. Just make sure you continue your ai while test clears and then stop before pct. Some guys do run low dose aromasin during pct because ai's do help with raising testosterone but you don't want to crush your estrogen so unless your getting bloods I wouldn't use an ai.

And the reason aromasin is used during pct is because Nolva actually counter interacts with arimidex and letro because of the way they work in the body. Not saying you can't use them in pct but they are less effective because they are competing against each other.
 
I ran tbol at 40 mg my first cycle and when I bumped to 50 I would get some headaches. They def were manageable but I was making nice gains at 40 so I stuck at that. Listen to your body and adjust accordingly.

Happy gaining bro!
 
Viking23 said:
Sorry man just trying to help some others.

And you won't have any rebound. Just make sure you continue your ai while test clears and then stop before pct. Some guys do run low dose aromasin during pct because ai's do help with raising testosterone but you don't want to crush your estrogen so unless your getting bloods I wouldn't use an ai.

And the reason aromasin is used during pct is because Nolva actually counter interacts with arimidex and letro because of the way they work in the body. Not saying you can't use them in pct but they are less effective because they are competing against each other.
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Source?
 
Ais decrease total e2 nolva does not. It simply prevents it from binding to certain tissues. Hence the selectivity.
 
You are correct but how they do this is much more complex. Its not just black and white my friend. You should check out Bill Roberts as he goes into detail with all the different compounds and their profiles.
 
Viking23 said:
I ran tbol at 40 mg my first cycle and when I bumped to 50 I would get some headaches. They def were manageable but I was making nice gains at 40 so I stuck at that. Listen to your body and adjust accordingly. Happy gaining bro!
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Well i ran tbol at 40 for 25 days. And gains were great. Im sure i couldve gotten way more gains at higher than 40. But first cycle, just learning how my body reacts, i think it was great! Theres always a next! After i finish here..
 
First day back to upper body pressing in the gym in 2 weeks. Not sure if I mentioned, somehow I jacked up my rotator. And honestly I dont think it happened while lifting.

So lets see how Chest Day goes!!!
 
TonyGunsling said:
First day back to upper body pressing in the gym in 2 weeks. Not sure if I mentioned, somehow I jacked up my rotator. And honestly I dont think it happened while lifting. So lets see how Chest Day goes!!!
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Well... Chest day was a success. Not a wild success! But still better than before. And at a new gym for the day... Id say, not too shaby!

Kind of an off week ahead of me.. Got friends from out of town visiting, so gym time, out of respect, will not be a pri. Still will hit it a couple times. But for now, bed!
 
Middle of week 7 update.

Went up about 1.4 pounds. Thought i was slowing the gains down a little this week with less cals via less carbs. But apparently not!

Strength gains: broke into the 500 club on deads! Pretty stoked. Been hitting them hard. And getting a lot more reps on bench than I thought i would.

Friends and family are noticing size while my shirts off because its about 100 where Im at.

Vascularity is getting more exciting each day! 2-3 weeks ago i noticed my first decent size quad vein with a leg pump. Now I am seeing 4 veins branch off one at the end of a day without a pump.

Starting to add more cardio.... Like tomorrow morning...
 
Shin/Calf Pumps are stupid bad.

I need to get my run time down. And I have have two months to do so. How can I get rid of my shin pumps so I am able to run more than 1/4 mile bouts?...

I am already taking 1.25gms Taurine twice daily...
 
Bump,

How else can i relieve my shin pumps?? I increased dosage. But unsure if thats the answer. I need to start putting some distance on my feet.
 
Been running higher dosages of taurine and its really paying off! Running consistent 3 mile runs and now can focus on that time it takes.

I have about 2 weeks left. And the last 2 weeks ive began to lean out due to cal/carb drop. And more running.

I am just trying to figure out what i should do to keep as much of these gains as I can after my PCT. Ill have around 4 months off if I wait the right amount of time.
 
Finished with my cycle. Just about to start my pct in a few days.

Of course now its summertime and my goal is to be shredded by July. What are some recommendations for fat loss post cycle? Obviously i want to retain as much muscle as i can. But i feel it is time for that veiny six pack.

I am looking for diet help, supplement help and exercise help.

I lowered my cals to 3000 towrds the end of my cycle and my weight just fluctuated about 3lbs either way.
So where do i cautiously drop cals to now to cut?
How does nolvadex for 4 weeks assist in cutting?
What can i add to my supplement regime? (Bronkaid caffeine aspirin, yohimbe, alphamine, norco, forskolin, anabeta elite + others)(i do have to worry about piss tests though...)
 
I would run PES Shift and AlphaMax together for 8weeks as a part of PCT to help recomp / lose fat. Yohimbine in the mornings would also help a lot. Shift is on sale for $20 until the end of today as it just got released, so I would grab some!
The F95 in AlphaMax and Shift equates to 100mg/day which is amazing when recomping.
Shift has fat burning ingredients in it, AlphaMax has test boosting for PCT

Other than that I would say caloric deficit is best for losing weight, but then comes the question of how much muscle would be lost
 
Quads_of_Stee said:
I would run PES Shift and AlphaMax together for 8weeks as a part of PCT to help recomp / lose fat. Yohimbine in the mornings would also help a lot. Shift is on sale for $20 until the end of today as it just got released, so I would grab some!
The F95 in AlphaMax and Shift equates to 100mg/day which is amazing when recomping.
Shift has fat burning ingredients in it, AlphaMax has test boosting for PCT

Other than that I would say caloric deficit is best for losing weight, but then comes the question of how much muscle would be lost
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I just started reading about shift. Ill have to look it up! And what about erase pro towards the end of my pct to further prevent estro rebound?
 
that works too, alphamax has arimistane in it which should cover your AI needs for 8weeks, but if you want to add in a bottle inhibit e at the end, that would be an extra precaution
 
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So i havent really been checkin in much. Not much time to goof off i guess. Week 2 of PCT and am still feeling great. Strength is still there. Yet I am dropping BF. Cals are down to around 2500 daily. Lean meats. Whole grain carbs. Fats from nuts fish n oil. Cardio about 2.5 hours per week.

In the pic above. I was around 196 on the left in December. And 210ish at the end of April. I started my cycle at the end of January. 40mg tbol x 25 days. And 400mg test cyp for weeks 1-8. 500mg in the last 3.5 weeks. Then i ran out.

Worst side effect. Back hair.... Which i hate! But its not gyno.

Ill update yall on my cut and gainzzz maintenance.
 
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