Test base for 7 weeks sarm stack

[RageAgainst]

@Jinsun I have also read studies regarding lipids but it does not seem fully confirmed

 

[RageAgainst]

To recap

week 1-10 test e 250 mg
week 3-10 sarm stack

raloxifene or aromasin on hand

week 12-15 nolva 40 mg mk 667 25 mg

week 15-18 nolva 20 mg mk 667 25 mg

 

[theswede]

Hi everyone, I’m planning a sarm stack as follows

- rad 140 25mg a day
- lgd 4033 10mg a day
- mk 667 25 mg a day

Pct
-nolva 40 mg for 3 weeks
-nolva 20 mg for 2 weeks


I know I need a test base, I’m thinking to use test Enanthate 100/125 mg for week,to prevent a estrogen crash, my questions are for this test dose do I need an AI?
at the end of the cycle I can start the pct after how many days if I put test enanthate as a base?

Basically I want to do this exact same cycle! But add some Trest Ace in at like 10-15 mg a day for my test base.

 

[thebigt]

Basically I want to do this exact same cycle! But add some Trest Ace in at like 10-15 mg a day for my test base.

if running with trest i would add either epiandro or androsterone or both and maybe some now brand l-dopa.

 

[theswede]

if running with trest i would add either epiandro or androsterone or both and maybe some now brand l-dopa.

L-Dopa for the prolactin? I have some Prami on hand so that should work?

 

[KvanH]

if running with trest i would add either epiandro or androsterone or both and maybe some now brand l-dopa.

Ultra Hard + Cabergoline

 

[KvanH]

L-Dopa for the prolactin? I have some Prami on hand so that should work?

Prami works

 

[theswede]

Prami works

I took some l-dopa back in 2011, I think I was taking that and USP Labs test booster, their "special" brand of Tribulus, and wow, I was hornier than a buck in rut.

 

[KvanH]

I took some l-dopa back in 2011, I think I was taking that and USP Labs test booster, their "special" brand of Tribulus, and wow, I was hornier than a buck in rut.

TF's? buck in rut I don't know, but I'm happy you're horny buddy

 

[thebigt]

I took some l-dopa back in 2011, I think I was taking that and USP Labs test booster, their "special" brand of Tribulus, and wow, I was hornier than a buck in rut.

the stuff jacob was putting out back in those days was gold.... original powerful kickedass, after that it went downhill.


??????

 

[thebigt]

Ultra Hard + Cabergoline

ultrahard would be very nice addition to a trest cycle, imo...the androsterone is a natural AI and has been shown to improve lipids-always a plus on cycles.

 

[Jinsun]

To recap

week 1-10 test e 250 mg
week 3-10 sarm stack

raloxifene or aromasin on hand

week 12-15 nolva 40 mg mk 667 25 mg

week 15-18 nolva 20 mg mk 667 25 mg

That's a poorly optimised cycle.

1. Test e at 250 for the first two weeks and then sarms at week 3 is pointless really. 250mg's of test alone wont do anything. You want to start of with sarms.

2. Weeks 10 - 12 are basically wasted time under shutdown. Either use prop at a bit higher dose, like 400/week, or use orals right until PCT. Best would be to do both.

3. 6 weeks of SERM's is imo to long. 4 weeks is enough: 40/20/20/10

4. I don't see any HCG in the cycle. This is the most important thing to protect your balls from dying off.

If you are basing your cycle on sarms, and don't want to add anything, and want a short cycle, then go:

Week 1 - 5: TestE at 250
Week 6 -7.5: Test prop at 250mg
Week 1 - 8: Sarm stack
Week 1 - 9: Hcg 250mg/eod
Week 9 - 12: Pct

That's a short cycle. You can play around with the Test esters. You can use prop for the duration of the whole cycle or you can use TestE up until week 5 and a half and then no test for 18 days. Or use prop up until 4 days of pct.

If you want a longer cycle:

Week 1 - 9: TestE 500mg
Week 10 - 11.5: Test prop 500mg
Week 4 - 12: Sarm stack

The point is that you don't waste the weeks that you aren't on the sarm stack on just 250mg's of test.

 

[Jinsun]

Oh, and idk what are the HL's of sarms. So factor that into the equation in regards to when you stop using them, so you have enough time for them to clear out your system before pct.

 

[Hyde]

That's a poorly optimised cycle.

1. Test e at 250 for the first two weeks and then sarms at week 3 is pointless really. 250mg's of test alone wont do anything. You want to start of with sarms.

2. Weeks 10 - 12 are basically wasted time under shutdown. Either use prop at a bit higher dose, like 400/week, or use orals right until PCT. Best would be to do both.

3. 6 weeks of SERM's is imo to long. 4 weeks is enough: 40/20/20/10

4. I don't see any HCG in the cycle. This is the most important thing to protect your balls from dying off.

If you are basing your cycle on sarms, and don't want to add anything, and want a short cycle, then go:

Week 1 - 5: TestE at 250
Week 6 -7.5: Test prop at 250mg
Week 1 - 8: Sarm stack
Week 1 - 9: Hcg 250mg/eod
Week 9 - 12: Pct

That's a short cycle. You can play around with the Test esters. You can use prop for the duration of the whole cycle or you can use TestE up until week 5 and a half and then no test for 18 days. Or use prop up until 4 days of pct.

If you want a longer cycle:

Week 1 - 9: TestE 500mg
Week 10 - 11.5: Test prop 500mg
Week 4 - 12: Sarm stack

The point is that you don't waste the weeks that you aren't on the sarm stack on just 250mg's of test.

The point is that you don't waste t

I would back all of this, except I stop HCG a week prior to the end of cycle/beginning of SERM PCT. HCG is suppressive, the estrogen it aromatizes to in the testes is as well, so having a week of HCG after the end is just adding another week of shutdown making PCT harder - effectively making the cycle longer for no gain. At a minimum, stop the HCG several days before the last ester/orals clear.

 

[Jinsun]

I would back all of this, except I stop HCG a week prior to the end of cycle/beginning of SERM PCT. HCG is suppressive, the estrogen it aromatizes to in the testes is as well, so having a week of HCG after the end is just adding another week of shutdown making PCT harder - effectively making the cycle longer for no gain. At a minimum, stop the HCG several days before the last ester/orals clear.

Hcg is suppressive, but at doses around 250mg it shouldn't really hamper pct that much imo. Doses upwards of 1000mg is where I would be worried. For me, I cant stand the complete androgen crash prior pct and the first week of it. I effectively taper with hcg.

 

[RageAgainst]

happy new year to all guys, what does it mean eod refering to hcg?
hcg is mandatory for such a low dose of test, could I do without it?

 

[Hyde]

happy new year to all guys, what does it mean eod refering to hcg?
hcg is mandatory for such a low dose of test, could I do without it?

Every other day. I like HCG at 250iu about every 5 days because it aromatizes so much for me, but 250iu every 3 days (e3d) is the ideal dose to keep your nuts stimulated.

If you do a 7-8 week cycle you can get by without HCG, but any more and you are crazy not to try to get some. I won’t ever cycle again without it. PCT from a 12 week cycle that used HCG throughout & prevented my nuts from shriveling is way easier than recovering from a 6 week cycle without. It makes that big of a difference. Your nuts don’t atrophy so as soon as the anabolics clear and you take your SERM they are ready to produce test when the SERM tells the brain to tell the nuts to start pumping.

 

[Zvch]

That's a poorly optimised cycle.

1. Test e at 250 for the first two weeks and then sarms at week 3 is pointless really. 250mg's of test alone wont do anything. You want to start of with sarms.

2. Weeks 10 - 12 are basically wasted time under shutdown. Either use prop at a bit higher dose, like 400/week, or use orals right until PCT. Best would be to do both.

3. 6 weeks of SERM's is imo to long. 4 weeks is enough: 40/20/20/10

4. I don't see any HCG in the cycle. This is the most important thing to protect your balls from dying off.

If you are basing your cycle on sarms, and don't want to add anything, and want a short cycle, then go:

Week 1 - 5: TestE at 250
Week 6 -7.5: Test prop at 250mg
Week 1 - 8: Sarm stack
Week 1 - 9: Hcg 250mg/eod
Week 9 - 12: Pct

That's a short cycle. You can play around with the Test esters. You can use prop for the duration of the whole cycle or you can use TestE up until week 5 and a half and then no test for 18 days. Or use prop up until 4 days of pct.

If you want a longer cycle:

Week 1 - 9: TestE 500mg
Week 10 - 11.5: Test prop 500mg
Week 4 - 12: Sarm stack

The point is that you don't waste the weeks that you aren't on the sarm stack on just 250mg's of test.

No disrespect dude, but I think all of these changes you keep suggesting are making things way more complicated than they need to be. And there are entirely too many generalizations in each one of your posts to make the suggestions actually reliable. Saying “250 Test won’t do anything” or “you don’t need an AI for 250 Test” are both nonsense statements. Everyone is different.

Personally, I need an AI at 250 Test. A very low dose (.25 Arimidex every week and a half), but I still need one. Although SARMs “don’t aromatize” they can increase estrogen by other mechanisms, especially at higher doses OR when stacked with Testosterone. I’ve seen it happen. You may be right, he may not need an AI at 250 Test, but he might need one badly at 250 Test + SARMs. Bottom line, you better have an AI on hand always no matter what you’re running.

I don’t think there’s any point in switching the ester of Testosterone. You’re throwing another wrench in your body’s attempt to maintain hormonal balance and for almost no return. The Test isn’t doing the heavy lifting here anyway.

You don’t need HCG for this cycle. Your LH and FSH production are not going to be suppressed greatly in 2 or 3 months of just Test and SARMs. It will be suppressed, however, if you add HCG though (that’s exactly what HCG mimics). LH and FSH production determines rate of recovery post cycle. Even if your Testosterone has dropped a ton at the end of the cycle, your body will fire production of Testosterone back up pretty quickly if you LH and FSH are still going strong. This is why we use Nolva or Clomid at the end of a cycle like this. HCG is better suited at the very end of a bigger cycle when you’re worried about the ability to recover production. I wouldn’t be worried about that with a cycle like this.

I personally don’t ever go over 250 Test, I use other compounds to do the heavy lifting for me. Particularly high dosed SARMs, so I have plenty of experience with them. If you’re running Test at all, you might as well get something out of it and run 250.

It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than this:

Test 250mg/week - all 12 weeks
MK-677 25mg/day - all 12 weeks

LGD 20mg/day - weeks 1-3

LGD 30mg/day - weeks 3-6

RAD 140 15-20mg/day - weeks 6-9

RAD 140 30mg/day - weeks 9-12

Nolva - 40/20/20/20/10

Test E will work fine, Prop would probably be better though. There’s not really any harm in adding a 5th or 6th week of Nolva at 10 or 20mg if you’re running Test E. Test E and SARMs should both take 2 weeks or so to be mostly out of your system. Continue the MK-677 for a month after the cycle, then stop everything all together for 3-4 months after you end the cycle. It’s important that you keep training and give your HPTA time to recover. You will keep the majority of the gains you made.

You could even start the doses lower than that to for the SARMs since it’s your first cycle(?) but these doses will give you steroid like results. Have an AI on hand without question and I would suggest even 0.25mg of Arimidex(anastrozole)/week from the start. That still might not be enough but it’s a good place to start. The reason I would start with the LGD and end with the RAD is because LGD is slightly “wetter” of a compound. You’re going to retain a small amount of water and minerals with that dose. RAD is about on par in terms of strength but it’s much drier of a compound. The reason I would high dose each compound instead of stacking them together is because your body is going to adjust to whatever dose of whatever compound you give it every 3 or 4 weeks. If you stack them together, you have nowhere to go other than increasing the dose. If you run them independent of each other, you can get more out of them because when you switch compounds, it’s a brand new compound to your body.

It’s well within the realm of possibility to put on 15 pounds of muscle in 3 months with a cycle like that, given you eat, train and rest optimally. Especially if it’s your first.

 

[Hyde]

No disrespect dude, but I think all of these changes you keep suggesting are making things way more complicated than they need to be. And there are entirely too many generalizations in each one of your posts to make the suggestions actually reliable. Saying “250 Test won’t do anything” or “you don’t need an AI for 250 Test” are both nonsense statements. Everyone is different.

Personally, I need an AI at 250 Test. A very low dose (.25 Arimidex every week and a half), but I still need one. Although SARMs “don’t aromatize” they can increase estrogen by other mechanisms, especially at higher doses OR when stacked with Testosterone. I’ve seen it happen. You may be right, he may not need an AI at 250 Test, but he might need one badly at 250 Test + SARMs. Bottom line, you better have an AI on hand always no matter what you’re running.

I don’t think there’s any point in switching the ester of Testosterone. You’re throwing another wrench in your body’s attempt to maintain hormonal balance and for almost no return. The Test isn’t doing the heavy lifting here anyway.

You don’t need HCG for this cycle. Your LH and FSH production are not going to be suppressed greatly in 2 or 3 months of just Test and SARMs. It will be suppressed, however, if you add HCG though (that’s exactly what HCG mimics). LH and FSH production determines rate of recovery post cycle. Even if your Testosterone has dropped a ton at the end of the cycle, your body will fire production of Testosterone back up pretty quickly if you LH and FSH are still going strong. This is why we use Nolva or Clomid at the end of a cycle like this. HCG is better suited at the very end of a bigger cycle when you’re worried about the ability to recover production. I wouldn’t be worried about that with a cycle like this.

I personally don’t ever go over 250 Test, I use other compounds to do the heavy lifting for me. Particularly high dosed SARMs, so I have plenty of experience with them. If you’re running Test at all, you might as well get something out of it and run 250.

It doesn’t need to be any more complicated than this:

Test 250mg/week - all 12 weeks
MK-677 25mg/day - all 12 weeks

LGD 20mg/day - weeks 1-3

LGD 30mg/day - weeks 3-6

RAD 140 15-20mg/day - weeks 6-9

RAD 140 30mg/day - weeks 9-12

Nolva - 40/20/20/20/10

Test E will work fine, Prop would probably be better though. There’s not really any harm in adding a 5th or 6th week of Nolva at 10 or 20mg if you’re running Test E. Test E and SARMs should both take 2 weeks or so to be mostly out of your system. Continue the MK-677 for a month after the cycle, then stop everything all together for 3-4 months after you end the cycle. It’s important that you keep training and give your HPTA time to recover. You will keep the majority of the gains you made.

You could even start the doses lower than that to for the SARMs since it’s your first cycle(?) but these doses will give you steroid like results. Have an AI on hand without question and I would suggest even 0.25mg of Arimidex(anastrozole)/week from the start. That still might not be enough but it’s a good place to start. The reason I would start with the LGD and end with the RAD is because LGD is slightly “wetter” of a compound. You’re going to retain a small amount of water and minerals with that dose. RAD is about on par in terms of strength but it’s much drier of a compound. The reason I would high dose each compound instead of stacking them together is because your body is going to adjust to whatever dose of whatever compound you give it every 3 or 4 weeks. If you stack them together, you have nowhere to go other than increasing the dose. If you run them independent of each other, you can get more out of them because when you switch compounds, it’s a brand new compound to your body.

It’s well within the realm of possibility to put on 15 pounds of muscle in 3 months with a cycle like that, given you eat, train and rest optimally. Especially if it’s your first.

Low dose HCG throughout on any cycle over 8 weeks in length makes a huge difference in speed and ease of recovery for me. I will recover faster from 12 weeks of test & HCG than an 8 week oral cycle without HCG. And all of the science supports that, and what you are saying about it is wrong. Yes it’s suppressive, but exogenous test will be completely sufficient to suppress endogenous production. There’s no good reason beyond laziness, ignorance, or inability to source HCG to neglect signaling to the testes to prevent atrophy. Do you honestly believe healthy testes will respond slower to recover natural testosterone via SERM administration, vs shriveled nuts that have been sidelined on the bench for 12 weeks? The only reason guys have to blast HCG at the end is because they let their nuts shrink down in the first place.

Also, nobody wants to pin prop for 12 weeks. Just sayin’.

 

[Zvch]

Low dose HCG throughout on any cycle over 8 weeks in length makes a huge difference in speed and ease of recovery for me. I will recover faster from 12 weeks of test & HCG than an 8 week oral cycle without HCG. And all of the science supports that, and what you are saying about it is wrong. Yes it’s suppressive, but exogenous test will be completely sufficient to suppress endogenous production. There’s no good reason beyond laziness, ignorance, or inability to source HCG to neglect signaling to the testes to prevent atrophy. Do you honestly believe healthy testes will respond slower to recover natural testosterone via SERM administration, vs shriveled nuts that have been sidelined on the bench for 12 weeks? The only reason guys have to blast HCG at the end is because they let their nuts shrink down in the first place.

Also, nobody wants to pin prop for 12 weeks. Just sayin’.

I think you’re misinterpreting the point of what I was saying. Nobody is arguing the fact that HCG would quicker restore Testosterone levels than a SERM, but HCG, as you said, comes with its own set of side-effects. For a cycle this light, using HCG would be like killing a fly with a shotgun. You guys are making it sound like the use of HCG is necessary. It’s not whatsoever. Would it work? Sure. But as we all know, the production of Testosterone is signaled in part by LH. LH and FSH aren’t going to be suppressed to a significant degree after a 12 week cycle this light, or a 12 week cycle of anything for that matter. We’re talking about Testosterone suppression. LH and FSH are going to be only suppressed slightly and your body is going to be ready to pick up endogenous production without any help. The point of HCG is to signal endogenous production by way of mimicing LH when there is not sufficient LH present to signal - like after a long and heavy cycle. If LH and FSH are present, endogenous production is still happening even though Testosterone levels may have plummeted. Endogenous production can take forever to completely shut down. The point of a PCT for a cycle this light would be to boost Testosterone production and avoid low T side-effects. All you need is a SERM to achieve this and LH and FSH will eventually be restored on their own post-cycle with just the help of a SERM and some time off. His nuts aren’t going to shrink after upping his T levels by a couple hundred ng/dl and playing with some SARMs for 3 months. And if they do, Clomid or Nolva are plenty sufficient.

A lot of people prefer Prop, actually. Even for TRT.

 

[Hyde]

LH and FSH aren’t going to be suppressed to a significant degree after a 12 week cycle this light, or a 12 week cycle of anything for that matter. We’re talking about Testosterone suppression. LH and FSH are going to be only suppressed slightly and your body is going to be ready to pick up endogenous production without any help.

And I am saying that’s wrong, and you are misguiding the OP on this matter.

Any cycle I have ever done without HCG (and there’s been plenty over the years), cycles much shorter than 10 or 12 weeks even & some totally dry oral/transdermal only cycles, LH & FSH are always SIGNIFICANTLY suppressed at the end. I have bloodwork showing this. And that’s going to make recovery harder than if he prevented atrophy by keeping imposter LH signaling via HCG.

Just because he may get by without HCG doesn’t mean it’s not beneficial. You are of the OPINION it’s not necessary to fully recover. I support this. But I am speaking for a FACT that recovery from a test cycle this length will be easier to recover from by using it throughout. This does NOT replace his SERM in PCT. It keeps his testes ready to go so when the SERM is introduced they will respond better, faster. It will be a breeze by comparison.

 

[Zvch]

And I am saying that’s wrong, and you are misguiding the OP on this matter.

Any cycle I have ever done without HCG (and there’s been plenty over the years), cycles much shorter than 10 or 12 weeks even & some totally dry oral/transdermal only cycles, LH & FSH are always SIGNIFICANTLY suppressed at the end. I have bloodwork showing this. And that’s going to make recovery harder than if he prevented atrophy by keeping imposter LH signaling via HCG.

Just because he may get by without HCG doesn’t mean it’s not beneficial. You are of the OPINION it’s not necessary to fully recover. I support this. But I am speaking for a FACT that recovery from a test cycle this length will be easier to recover from by using it throughout. This does NOT replace his SERM in PCT. It keeps his testes ready to go so when the SERM is introduced they will respond better, faster. It will be a breeze by comparison.

Again, I never said HCG itself is not beneficial. For someone who has never used it, has no experience controlling estrogen, and doesn’t really need it anyway, I think it’s doing more harm than good to use it in a cycle of this caliber.

Yeah it will be easier to recover with HCG. With a first cycle like this it’s going to be easy to recover PERIOD with just a SERM.

I don’t really understand the need to argue. We have two differing opinions. It’s not my opinion that you need HCG if you still have LH production. If he’s planning on cycling frequently, I think HCG would be a good idea. But then again in that case, he should just stay on Test.

 

[Hyde]

Again, I never said HCG itself is not beneficial. For someone who has never used it, has no experience controlling estrogen, and doesn’t really need it anyway, I think it’s doing more harm than good to use it in a cycle of this caliber.

Yeah it will be easier to recover with HCG. With a first cycle like this it’s going to be easy to recover PERIOD with just a SERM.

I don’t really understand the need to argue. We have two differing opinions. It’s not my opinion that you need HCG if you still have LH production. If he’s planning on cycling frequently, I think HCG would be a good idea. But then again in that case, he should just stay on Test.

I am only arguing for the idea of using HCG for 10 week+ steroid cycles (SARMs only would be different), essentially. And that’s certainly not a must, as you said, but boy it makes a difference, and there is even theory that having the testes atrophied is part of what impacts complete longterm testosterone recovery to pre-cycling levels (ie, someone cycling and trying to avoid TRT/cruising for as long as possible should especially be using HCG).

I was told to use HCG right from the get go many years ago but didn’t want to listen. When I finally tried it I realized what I had been missing. I just want others to not make the same mistakes I did, or at least have all of the evidence to make informed decisions. All of that said, I don’t need to debate this any further & respect you explaining your thoughts thoroughly for the OP. I appreciate all of the other things you have brought to this discussion btw.

 

[Zvch]

I am only arguing for the idea of using HCG for 10 week+ steroid cycles (SARMs only would be different), essentially. And that’s certainly not a must, as you said, but boy it makes a difference, and there is even theory that having the testes atrophied is part of what impacts complete longterm testosterone recovery to pre-cycling levels (ie, someone cycling and trying to avoid TRT/cruising for as long as possible should especially be using HCG).

I was told to use HCG right from the get go many years ago but didn’t want to listen. When I finally tried it I realized what I had been missing. I just want others to not make the same mistakes I did, or at least have all of the evidence to make informed decisions. All of that said, I don’t need to debate this any further & respect you explaining your thoughts thoroughly for the OP. I appreciate all of the other things you have brought to this discussion btw.

Respect your info too man, as always.

Speaking of HCG, I’m planning on starting it back up soon I’ve just kind of been complacent with it and can’t find a reliable source. A few months after I first started TRT I added HCG in with it and the plan was to take it forever but the source I had at the time had it in these 5000iu ampules designed to be taken all at once. And the water they came with was literally a half ml. So I basically had to squirt it in, disolve the powder, draw it back out and keep a syringe in the fridge, and I had no other choice but to take 500iu (if I was lucky enough to be that gentle on the plug) or more at a time.

Long story short, it gave me all kinds of dick issues and estrogen related stuff. Made me a paranoid weirdo too. I think the main problem was that I was taking too much Test at the time, but I really wasn’t thrilled with HCG. You said a lower dose spread out has been effective for you?

 

[Hyde]

Respect your info too man, as always.

Speaking of HCG, I’m planning on starting it back up soon I’ve just kind of been complacent with it and can’t find a reliable source. A few months after I first started TRT I added HCG in with it and the plan was to take it forever but the source I had at the time had it in these 5000iu ampules designed to be taken all at once. And the water they came with was literally a half ml. So I basically had to squirt it in, disolve the powder, draw it back out and keep a syringe in the fridge, and I had no other choice but to take 500iu (if I was lucky enough to be that gentle on the plug) or more at a time.

Long story short, it gave me all kinds of dick issues and estrogen related stuff. Made me a paranoid weirdo too. I think the main problem was that I was taking too much Test at the time, but I really wasn’t thrilled with HCG. You said a lower dose spread out has been effective for you?

Yeah the actual amount to maintain maximum testes size and peak production is something like ~300iu e3d, but it’s just too much estrogen for me personally (read: I’m horny but my peepee isn’t as hard & it bugs my gyno). I like 250iu about every 4-5 days and I use a little more AI overall with it in the picture. Honestly a little can go a long way for a guy maybe not concerned with max size but just preventing full atrophy down to raisins. I expect if I start cruising I might use it at something like just once a week only.

 

[Jinsun]

LH and FSH aren’t going to be suppressed to a significant degree after a 12 week cycle this light, or a 12 week cycle of anything for that matter. We’re talking about Testosterone suppression. LH and FSH are going to be only suppressed slightly and your body is going to be ready to pick up endogenous production without any help.

What the heck are you writing in this thread. First you go on dismantling my post, which was kinda funny, but you do you ... and then you go saying chit like this

LH will be suppressed from week one of exogenus test use. And it will stay at ZERO for the duration of the cycle.

Even just LGD at a normal dose will completely suppress LH. Get you facts in order bro, check some studies, etc. But if you don't understand that LH gets suppressed immediately by test or other androgens in normal amount, you have no business giving advice to anybody, as you are just giving out misinformation.

HGC during cycle is as @Hyde said, crucial for longevity and not ending up on trt. Leydig cells will die off with cycle much sooner then if you used HCG. My natural TT is still at 800 - 900 and I always used HCG. And besides, HCG has much more uses then just preserving leydig cell health. Have you ever heard of people not having a good libido on cycle and then when they added HCG it came back? Yes, HCG will also help in keeping other hormones up, like progesterone for example, which is crucial for a good libido and sleep, etc.

There was really no bad info in my suggestions to OP. Offcourse some info is generalized. You might need an Ai on 250mg test, but most wont need it. And if you factor this info, probably nobody should use it: with androgen use, it's not a bad idea to let E2 rise a bit. The estrogen : androgen balance is important. You don't really want to have E2 at 25 on 250 mg's of test and all the orals he is taking. You want to let it elevate a bit. And with cycles like 500mg test, 500 primo or some other DHT, this is even more important.

So no, my information is not BS. And it really sounds like you have little idea about what you are talking about. So OP, don't get dismayed by him. Thank you, have a nice day.

 

[Zvch]

What the heck are you writing in this thread. First you go on dismantling my post, which was kinda funny, but you do you ... and then you go saying chit like this

LH will be suppressed from week one of exogenus test use. And it will stay at ZERO for the duration of the cycle.

Even just LGD at a normal dose will completely suppress LH. Get you facts in order bro, check some studies, etc. But if you don't understand that LH gets suppressed immediately by test or other androgens in normal amount, you have no business giving advice to anybody, as you are just giving out misinformation.

HGC during cycle is as @Hyde said, crucial for longevity and not ending up on trt. Leydig cells will die off with cycle much sooner then if you used HCG. My natural TT is still at 800 - 900 and I always used HCG. And besides, HCG has much more uses then just preserving leydig cell health. Have you ever heard of people not having a good libido on cycle and then when they added HCG it came back? Yes, HCG will also help in keeping other hormones up, like progesterone for example, which is crucial for a good libido and sleep, etc.

There was really no bad info in my suggestions to OP. Offcourse some info is generalized. You might need an Ai on 250mg test, but most wont need it. And if you factor this info, probably nobody should use it: with androgen use, it's not a bad idea to let E2 rise a bit. The estrogen : androgen balance is important. You don't really want to have E2 at 25 on 250 mg's of test and all the orals he is taking. You want to let it elevate a bit. And with cycles like 500mg test, 500 primo or some other DHT, this is even more important.

So no, my information is not BS. And it really sounds like you have little idea about what you are talking about. So OP, don't get dismayed by him. Thank you, have a nice day.

You’re saying LH drops to zero and stays there after a week of steroid use but claiming that I don’t know what I’m talking about and have no business giving anyone advice...?

Since “I need to check some studies”, here’s a study (that took me 30 seconds to find) conducted by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. It backs everything I’ve stated. I actually read information before I spew things.

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(00)01557-0/pdf

The group in the study was given Test AND Deca for 8 weeks and their LH dropped by only 50%. This is exactly the point I was making. I never said HCG wouldn’t work or preserve his production better than going without it would. I said it IS NOT necessary. You don’t need normal levels of LH to restore your testosterone levels to normal. Your body will upregulate LH production to restore testosterone levels after the the cycle REGARDLESS. That’s what your body is designed to do - read a feedback loop and respond accordingly. As long as LH levels have not dropped to 0, which for some guys takes a YEAR or more depending on what they’re running, you don’t NEED HCG. All you need is a SERM and some time off.

I never said your information was BS. I said it wasn’t helping

I assure you I have plenty of an idea of what I’m talking about. People on forums just like to jump to conclusions & misinterpret what was said so that they have an excuse to argue and assert their intellectual superiority more than they actually like to finish reading a post.

 

[Jinsun]

You’re saying LH drops to zero and stays there after a week of steroid use but claiming that I don’t know what I’m talking about and have no business giving anyone advice...?

Since “I need to check some studies”, here’s a study (that took me 30 seconds to find) conducted by the American Society for Reproductive Medicine. It backs everything I’ve stated. I actually read information before I spew things.

https://www.fertstert.org/article/S0015-0282(00)01557-0/pdf

The group in the study was given Test AND Deca for 8 weeks and their LH dropped by only 50%. This is exactly the point I was making. I never said HCG wouldn’t work or preserve his production better than going without it would. I said it IS NOT necessary. You don’t need normal levels of LH to restore your testosterone levels to normal. Your body will upregulate LH production to restore testosterone levels after the the cycle REGARDLESS. That’s what your body is designed to do - read a feedback loop and respond accordingly. As long as LH levels have not dropped to 0, which for some guys takes a YEAR or more depending on what they’re running, you don’t NEED HCG. All you need is a SERM and some time off.

I never said your information was BS. I said it wasn’t helping

I assure you I have plenty of an idea of what I’m talking about. People on forums just like to jump to conclusions & misinterpret what was said so that they have an excuse to argue and assert their intellectual superiority more than they actually like to finish reading a post.

1. Most, and I do mean most, will have their LH at zero and those who wont have it at zero will have it at 0.1, 0.2, ... Talking about the wast majority here and not about outliers, who are far in between, so far in between, that I have yet to hear about one.

2. You need more then 0.5 LH to stimulate leydig cells. Especially on a cycle of aas which are suppressive to the gonads in a different manner then test is by it self. A clear illustration of this are sarms, especially Ostarine. Ever seen week 4 bloods on ostarine? TT close to zero, LH basically at baseline. So, LH at 3.5 (this was my bloodwork) producet almost zero test. Meaning, leydig cells were unresponsive to LH. Maybe there was some intratesticular test being present, idk, but there was no blood serum test present for sure. So, on an aas cycle you definetly need a good amount of HCG to stimulate anything. Just a really low dose of LH is not good enough.

3. You clearly said LH doesnt drop to zero. That was your point. Dont try and weasel yourself out of it.

4. Offcourse your body will restore it self without anything after the cycle. You are stating facts that are known to all of us here. I dont know why you are stating them though. You do not need to have active LH in CYCLE in order to restore LH after cycle. Again, no reason to state that.

5. Taking a serm after cycle speeds thing up, and that's all it does. Taking hcg in cycle, well, me and @Hyde already both sumed up why that is a good idea.

It's funny, you bumped into me generalising that OP PROBABLY wont need an Ai (key word Probably), which is a safe assumption to make, but then you go off to make rather unsafe suggestion; to not take hcg for example, based upon some outlier data, that LH wont get suppressed on 250 mg's of test, which really is funny and bad advice. The only way this is good advice is, if the user does bloods two weeks in and if he finds his LH still up and running, then he doesnt need hcg.

You seem to be one of those people who will argue without end, so I will stop entertaining this discussion right here. Again, have a good one.

 

[Zvch]

1. Most, and I do mean most, will have their LH at zero and those who wont have it at zero will have it at 0.1, 0.2, ... Talking about the wast majority here and not about outliers, who are far in between, so far in between, that I have yet to hear about one.

2. You need more then 0.5 LH to stimulate leydig cells. Especially on a cycle of aas which are suppressive to the gonads in a different manner then test is by it self. A clear illustration of this are sarms, especially Ostarine. Ever seen week 4 bloods on ostarine? TT close to zero, LH basically at baseline. So, LH at 3.5 (this was my bloodwork) producet almost zero test. Meaning, leydig cells were unresponsive to LH. Maybe there was some intratesticular test being present, idk, but there was no blood serum test present for sure. So, on an aas cycle you definetly need a good amount of HCG to stimulate anything. Just a really low dose of LH is not good enough.

3. You clearly said LH doesnt drop to zero. That was your point. Dont try and weasel yourself out of it.

4. Offcourse your body will restore it self without anything after the cycle. You are stating facts that are known to all of us here. I dont know why you are stating them though. You do not need to have active LH in CYCLE in order to restore LH after cycle. Again, no reason to state that.

5. Taking a serm after cycle speeds thing up, and that's all it does. Taking hcg in cycle, well, me and @Hyde already both sumed up why that is a good idea.

It's funny, you bumped into me generalising that OP PROBABLY wont need an Ai (key word Probably), which is a safe assumption to make, but then you go off to make rather unsafe suggestion; to not take hcg for example, based upon some outlier data, that LH wont get suppressed on 250 mg's of test, which really is funny and bad advice. The only way this is good advice is, if the user does bloods two weeks in and if he finds his LH still up and running, then he doesnt need hcg.

You seem to be one of those people who will argue without end, so I will stop entertaining this discussion right here. Again, have a good one.

1. No, most won’t have their LH drop to zero in 2 weeks. I literally just cited a study for you that found exactly the opposite. These studies are conducted the way they are with big enough groups to rule out genetic outliers.

2. Ostarine does not drop TT to zero in a month. Just because that happened to some people (apropriate use of the word outlier) or some people took something else that was sold as Ostarine does not mean it’s characteristic of the drug itself. I’ve literally said what you’re saying already. I don’t know how many different ways it takes for me to say something before you can read it correctly so I’ll try it again: If you want to make sure you’re producing adequate testosterone on cycle, HCG works. It is not necessary for a 3 month cycle because he will probably have LH production left. And even if he doesn’t, he’ll probably be fine with a SERM that stimulates LH production. If you want to be safe and use HCG, whatever dude. But that’s not the discussion we were having.

I’ve taken Ostarine a dozen times and have gotten bloodwork done after using it in a cycle too.

3. I’m not trying to weasel myself out of my point. LH DOESN’T drop to zero in 2 weeks of anything. Read some studies. Apparently you can’t read because I made that point multiple times in my posts and continued to stand by it because it is a scientific fact.

4. I’m stating facts that we all know because you can’t read and are misinterpreting what I’m saying and thinking I’m saying something else, so I have to continually restate my points like an english tutor.

5. I never disagreed that it’s a good idea. I said it’s not necessary. Read.

 

[Zvch]

1. No, most won’t have their LH drop to zero in 2 weeks. I literally just cited a study for you that found exactly the opposite. These studies are conducted the way they are with big enough groups to rule out genetic outliers.

2. Ostarine does not drop TT to zero in a month. Just because that happened to some people (apropriate use of the word outlier) or some people took something else that was sold as Ostarine does not mean it’s characteristic of the drug itself. I’ve literally said what you’re saying already. I don’t kniw how many different ways it takes foe me to say something before you can read it correctly so I’lm try it again: If you want to make sure you’re producing adequate testosterone on cycle, HCG works. It is not necessary for a 3 month cycle because he will probably have LH production left. And even if he doesn’t, he’ll probably be fine with a SERM that stimulates LH production. If you want to be safe and use HCG, whatever dude. But that’s not the discussion we were having.

3. I’m not trying to weasel myself out of my point. LH DOESN’T drop to zero in 2 weeks of anything. Read some studies. Apparently you can’t read because I made that point multiple times in my posts and continued to stand by it because it is a scientific fact.

4. I’m stating facts that we all know because you can’t read and are misinterpreting what I’m saying and thinking I’m saying something else, so I have to continually restate my points like an english tutor.

5. I never disagreed that it’s a good idea. I said it’s not necessary. Read.

 

[RageAgainst]

hi guys sorry for the late reply but i have been very busy so i decided how to proceed 12 weeks cycle

Week 1-9 test e 250 mg, Primobolan 300mg
Week 1-12 sarm stack (rad140 20mg a day lgd4033 10mg a day mk667 25mg a day)
Week 9-12 Proviron for libido when I take off test and primo

Pct
Week 1 nolva 40mg clomid 50 mg
Week 2 nolva 20mg clomid 50 mg
Week 3,4 nolva 20mg clomid 25mg
Week 5 nolva 10mg clomid 12,25mg
Week 6 nolva 10mg

During pct 25 mg of mk667 a day

 

[RageAgainst]

Ps hcg in case my balls shrink up

 

[johnny412]

zvch...starscreamer?

 

[Mathb33]

zvch...starscreamer?

I don’t think so but your comment was hilarious

 

[johnny412]

I don’t think so but your comment was hilarious

that starscreamer could pull up studies in 30 seconds too! maybe quicker lol!

 

[Humbl3]

zvch...starscreamer?

Huh?

 

[johnny412]

Huh?

a dude that got banned recently...seems alot like this guy but prolly not. im kinda just kidding...but kinda not lol

 

[Humbl3]

hi guys sorry for the late reply but i have been very busy so i decided how to proceed 12 weeks cycle

Week 1-9 test e 250 mg, Primobolan 300mg
Week 1-12 sarm stack (rad140 20mg a day lgd4033 10mg a day mk667 25mg a day)
Week 9-12 Proviron for libido when I take off test and primo

Pct
Week 1 nolva 40mg clomid 50 mg
Week 2 nolva 20mg clomid 50 mg
Week 3,4 nolva 20mg clomid 25mg
Week 5 nolva 10mg clomid 12,25mg
Week 6 nolva 10mg

During pct 25 mg of mk667 a day

I seriously doubt that you will need Clomid and Nolva Simultaneously for a 12 week SARM stack
Even with the Primo...

 

[Humbl3]

a dude that got banned recently...seems alot like this guy but prolly not. im kinda just kidding...but kinda not lol

Lofl
I totally get it
I forgot about him

 

[Hyde]

a dude that got banned recently...seems alot like this guy but prolly not. im kinda just kidding...but kinda not lol

His user profile is 2 years old....

 

[johnny412]

His user profile is 2 years old....

i didnt literally mean it was him...i was just noting the comparison in their styles...

 

[Zvch]

a dude that got banned recently...seems alot like this guy but prolly not. im kinda just kidding...but kinda not lol

It is I

 

[Zvch]

i didnt literally mean it was him...i was just noting the comparison in their styles...

I didn’t recognize the name until I ran a search for him. That was the funniest thing I heard all day. What’d dude get banned for?

 

[johnny412]

I didn’t recognize the name until I ran a search for him. That was the funniest thing I heard all day.

lol just playin buddy

 

[KvanH]

I didn’t recognize the name until I ran a search for him. That was the funniest thing I heard all day. What’d dude get banned for?

Spamming affiliate links.