Unanswered Tbol or LGD

YamahaC76

Member
Goal is to recomp. Take a few pounds of fat off the stomach while increasing muscle mass slightly everywhere. Ill be taking it conjunction with mk677.

I have experience with oxandralone and may just end up going with that since it's androgenic rating is 1/4 of testosterone. I wanted to try something non-androgenic at all, but Tbol has such a low anabolic rating in general, is it even worth it?

Anyone tried LGD4033? Is it worth it? Positive mental effects? Anything good about it at all?
 
jrock645 said:
I wouldn’t do the Lgd. Actually sounds like anavar would be your best bet.
Click to expand...

Yeah it honestly was the best compound iv'e taken by far. Everyone was right, real var beats any oral Imo. Turinabol had a nice alpha vibe though. Oxandralone actually made me very very irritable. I just wanted something side effect friendly that would preserve muscle and simultaneously put on some pounds.

Iv'e only taken ostarine as far as sarms go. It's okay at best.

How does tbol put on gains if it only has an anabolic rating of around 50, vs test? which is 100/100

I think var is something like 300+/25 as far an anabolic/androgenic ratio. I guess if women can take Var, it's safer on hairlines over any other oral.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Also, why wouldn't you do LGD?
Click to expand...

I’m just not a big fan of sarms, personally. They didn’t live up to the hype. And it’s odd that the pharma companies just walked away from them and didn’t bring them to market. Also, there’s nowhere near as much data out there on them as there is aas, so there’s a lot of question marks and unpredictability. Just not the route I would go, personally. I tried ostarine and s4 before I got back into aas. I wasn’t impressed.

I’m sure somebody will chime in on tbol. I’ve gotten the impression it’s better used on a bulk. And I wouldn’t pay too much attention to those a:a re just numbers on paper, they don’t necessarily translate to results and never tell the whole story about a compound.

For what you’re looking for, var is probably your best bet. Unless you wanted to stack something like NPP and a stronger dht like msten.
 
jrock645 said:
I’m just not a big fan of sarms, personally. They didn’t live up to the hype. And it’s odd that the pharma companies just walked away from them and didn’t bring them to market. Also, there’s nowhere near as much data out there on them as there is aas, so there’s a lot of question marks and unpredictability. Just not the route I would go, personally. I tried ostarine and s4 before I got back into aas. I wasn’t impressed.

I’m sure somebody will chime in on tbol. I’ve gotten the impression it’s better used on a bulk. And I wouldn’t pay too much attention to those a:a re just numbers on paper, they don’t necessarily translate to results and never tell the whole story about a compound.

For what you’re looking for, var is probably your best bet. Unless you wanted to stack something like NPP and a stronger dht like msten.
Click to expand...

Oh I definitely am going to stay away from heavy androgenic compounds. NPP wrecked my hairline. I just had an FUE transplant so I should be good, but I am probably going to stick with Test only and a well tolerated oral now. So tbol or Var in all honesty. I had my suspicions about SARMS, and will probably stay away.

From what I understand, NPP was more androgenic than Deca? Probably because the ester is so short it all hits at once.

I don't think my hair got worse from VAR, but I wasn't paying attention either. DBOL, NPP, and Test P I think really made me lose most of my hair which is fine, I got the transplant already. But I'm not trying to abuse it.

I guess it's between 50mg of tbol or 50mg of oxandralone again.
 
Interesting. I must have bomb proof hair then. DMZ, epistane, NPP, var and msten all within the past year and noticed no difference in my hair.

I liked var at 70-80mg.
 
jrock645 said:
Interesting. I must have bomb proof hair then. DMZ, epistane, NPP, var and msten all within the past year and noticed no difference in my hair.

I liked var at 70-80mg.
Click to expand...

I was running var at 50mg and test at 500mg and lost 10lb of fat in a few weeks and put on muscle. I could only imagine if I had actually ate the correct calories but var stunted my appetite so much it got hard. Thats why it was awesome cutting. Yeah man, you may have bomb proof hair haha. I had MPB at 19, so at 28 I needed the procedure done. I wasn't getting any ladies wearing hats...plus formal events were nightmares because I couldn't wear hats.

I am curious to hear somebody experiences on tbol vs Var if anyone can chime in! Sarms are OUT.
 
Are you opposed to another injectable? Dhb might be a good fit. 2:1 anabolic: androgenic ratio, not a dht so theoretically light on the hair loss, great recomp potential.
 
steve0178 said:
Are you opposed to another injectable? Dhb might be a good fit. 2:1 anabolic: androgenic ratio, not a dht so theoretically light on the hair loss, great recomp potential.
Click to expand...

Im not, but I don't think I can get that haha. I haven't been doing so hot on my pins lately. I bleed out of my glute a lot almost everytime now it seems. Im getting tired of these 23g needles. I don't have this issue with my left glute at all, but my right I actually coughed a fair bit.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Im not, but I don't think I can get that haha. I haven't been doing so hot on my pins lately. I bleed out of my glute a lot almost everytime now it seems. Im getting tired of these 23g needles. I don't have this issue with my left glute at all, but my right I actually coughed a fair bit.
Click to expand...
If you find a source that uses MCT oil, you can pin through a 29 gauge. You can also rotate to your quads.
 
YamahaC76 said:
That's my issue, I never felt confident enough to do quads. I do TRT as well so I need a real solution.
Click to expand...
Tbol is pretty mild in my experience. If you had good luck with var, I'd probably just stick with that. Though dhb would work much better for a recomp
 
YamahaC76 said:
That's my issue, I never felt confident enough to do quads. I do TRT as well so I need a real solution.
Click to expand...
Tbol is pretty mild in my experience. If you had good luck with var, I'd probably just stick with that. Though dhb would work much better for a recomp
 
YamahaC76 said:
Im not, but I don't think I can get that haha. I haven't been doing so hot on my pins lately. I bleed out of my glute a lot almost everytime now it seems. Im getting tired of these 23g needles. I don't have this issue with my left glute at all, but my right I actually coughed a fair bit.
Click to expand...

Have you tried the delts? By far the easiest way to inject to me.
 
Can anyone briefly explain how the A:A ratio works? Like is it per mg? You see everywhere the anabolic/androgenic ratio numbers, but it doesn't tell you in what context.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Can anyone briefly explain how the A:A ratio works? Like is it per mg? You see everywhere the anabolic/androgenic ratio numbers, but it doesn't tell you in what context.
Click to expand...
Invalid Link Removed
It's not per mg. It's by compound. But you can use a standard dose for each steroid to compare. On paper, the same dose of tren to test will give you 5x the gains. That doesn't mean that's actually true; in fact, it's not. But it's a good place to start as tren is much stronger than test.
 
steve0178 said:
Invalid Link Removed
It's not per mg. It's by compound. But you can use a standard dose for each steroid to compare. On paper, the same dose of tren to test will give you 5x the gains. That doesn't mean that's actually true; in fact, it's not. But it's a good place to start as tren is much stronger than test.
Click to expand...

Interesting. So how would this apply to orals? You take 500mg of test a week, and that would equate to around 350mg of test minus the ester. Now I take 50mg of Var daily, and thats also 350mg a week. But the overall Androgenic effects would be vastly different because the ratings are much lower? This example happens to equate to a mg to mg weekly coincidentally. But am I on the right track here pertaining to orals?

This actually confuses me with Turinabol and I can't figure this compound out. How do you get gains on it, if it's anabolic ratio is essentially half of testosterone?
 
YamahaC76 said:
Interesting. So how would this apply to orals? You take 500mg of test a week, and that would equate to around 350mg of test minus the ester. Now I take 50mg of Var daily, and thats also 350mg a week. But the overall Androgenic effects would be vastly different because the ratings are much lower? This example happens to equate to a mg to mg weekly coincidentally. But am I on the right track here pertaining to orals?

This actually confuses me with Turinabol and I can't figure this compound out. How do you get gains on it, if it's anabolic ratio is essentially half of testosterone?
Click to expand...

Our minds work a lot alike lol. You kind of have to take the aa ratio with a grain of salt and not get too in depth. Remember, it's what they measured on rats, so applying it to our bodies doesn't translate perfectly.
The main take aways are that androgenic compounds typically have more sides - high BP, acne, water retention, heart enlargement, suppression, etc. Lower androgenic compounds typically give cleaner gains, but take a long time to see results. They still have sides, but are typically much safer. When people take a bunch of androgens, they blow up, but then they lose a lot because most of what they gained was water. This is why most of your bulking compounds are androgens.
But then think of tren. It's definitely a cutting compound. Back to our grain of salt statement. They all have different properties and some of them just don't fit the norm. The aa ratio is a good tool to compare compounds to each other and make sure general conclusions, but not necessarily to calculate results or get too in depth.
 
Hmm, well I definitely appreciate the information. However I am now still stuck on whether I should do Var or Turinabol. I don't think I experienced hair thinning or miniaturization of follicles on 6 weeks of Var. I got my hairline redone via FUE hair transplant and that hair is supposed to be androgen resistant. I still wouldn't pin Masteron or Tren, but I am just trying to be conservative with my PED's...im even considering getting off cruising because I cruise at 250mg of test a week...

The mental relief I got from cruising outweighed the cons of being a mess prior. But now I have concern for fertility even though I take HCG twice a week.

I think also post surgery since I had it done, I would hate to think 6 weeks of an oral would just cause immediate receding of my hairline. I mean women take VAR, so I should be good...it is androgen resistant hair.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Hmm, well I definitely appreciate the information. However I am now still stuck on whether I should do Var or Turinabol. I don't think I experienced hair thinning or miniaturization of follicles on 6 weeks of Var. I got my hairline redone via FUE hair transplant and that hair is supposed to be androgen resistant. I still wouldn't pin Masteron or Tren, but I am just trying to be conservative with my PED's...im even considering getting off cruising because I cruise at 250mg of test a week...

The mental relief I got from cruising outweighed the cons of being a mess prior. But now I have concern for fertility even though I take HCG twice a week.

I think also post surgery since I had it done, I would hate to think 6 weeks of an oral would just cause immediate receding of my hairline. I mean women take VAR, so I should be good...it is androgen resistant hair.
Click to expand...
If your hair loss wasn't an issue, which it sounds like it's not really, I'd recommend primo. I think it's the best compound, hands down. It's safer than test, super low on androgenic sides (or any sides), and results are slow but excellent. It's like baby tren in my experience.
 
steve0178 said:
If your hair loss wasn't an issue, which it sounds like it's not really, I'd recommend primo. I think it's the best compound, hands down. It's safer than test, super low on androgenic sides (or any sides), and results are slow but excellent. It's like baby tren in my experience.
Click to expand...

Hmm, primo eh? I have never really looked into it but am interested. Dianabol and NPP wrecked my hair to be honest. After about a year and a half of a few cycles my hair receded a lot worse than I thought.

Unsure how much is from cruising on 250mg of test. But I know once I started taking the 2 above I had mad shedding...it's also in my genes though and I just had FUE done on my entire front part of my scalp...so I think I should be okay for at least until halfway through my 30's.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Hmm, primo eh? I have never really looked into it but am interested. Dianabol and NPP wrecked my hair to be honest. After about a year and a half of a few cycles my hair receded a lot worse than I thought.

Unsure how much is from cruising on 250mg of test. But I know once I started taking the 2 above I had mad shedding...it's also in my genes though and I just had FUE done on my entire front part of my scalp...so I think I should be okay for at least until halfway through my 30's.
Click to expand...
Do some research and see what you think. I get zero sides and excellent results from it. You're not going to see crazy size but the gains you get are nearly all muscle. Plus it keeps my body fat way down without even trying. Rumor has it that it was Arnold's favorite along with dbol.
 
steve0178 said:
Do some research and see what you think. I get zero sides and excellent results from it. You're not going to see crazy size but the gains you get are nearly all muscle. Plus it keeps my body fat way down without even trying. Rumor has it that it was Arnold's favorite along with dbol.
Click to expand...

So how do steroids derived from DHT work? I see that anavar is one but doesn't cause hairloss. But Masteron definitely causes it in almost every case I see. I see that primo is DHT based as well.

I understand they don't convert to DHT in your system, but I am missing the part before that, which is what your body is reading the compound as it enters your blood and binds to your receptors. This is the whole thing with "androgenic alopecia" too as a whole, instead of just blaming DHT...at least I think?
 
YamahaC76 said:
So how do steroids derived from DHT work? I see that anavar is one but doesn't cause hairloss. But Masteron definitely causes it in almost every case I see. I see that primo is DHT based as well.

I understand they don't convert to DHT in your system, but I am missing the part before that, which is what your body is reading the compound as it enters your blood and binds to your receptors. This is the whole thing with "androgenic alopecia" too as a whole, instead of just blaming DHT...at least I think?
Click to expand...

I'm not an expert on the chemistry side, but my understanding is that all DHT derivatives have 5-alpha reductase in common. Here's some info that might shed some light on your question.

"DHT is thought to attach to androgen receptors on hair follicles. Through an unknown mechanism, it then appears to trigger the receptors to begin miniaturizing."

Invalid Link Removed
 
steve0178 said:
I'm not an expert on the chemistry side, but my understanding is that all DHT derivatives have 5-alpha reductase in common. Here's some info that might shed some light on your question.

"DHT is thought to attach to androgen receptors on hair follicles. Through an unknown mechanism, it then appears to trigger the receptors to begin miniaturizing."

Invalid Link Removed
Click to expand...

Well it all makes sense. From what I know the hair follicles from the FUE transplant are androgen resistant.

I wanted to run VAR now, but it's only been a couple weeks, and the follicles are still weak. But I don't think I would risk killing them over the amount of Test I'm cruising on. It has such a low androgen rating.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Well it all makes sense. From what I know the hair follicles from the FUE transplant are androgen resistant.

I wanted to run VAR now, but it's only been a couple weeks, and the follicles are still weak. But I don't think I would risk killing them over the amount of Test I'm cruising on. It has such a low androgen rating.
Click to expand...
I personally don't think I'd risk killing them either. Glad things make sense
 
That's the interesting part though. I told the doctor I was cruising and he said I would be fine with much higher levels of testosterone. I May experiment with tbol in a month...

Should I actually come off entirely? I have been cruising on trt for a year now. I don't think theres a risk of killing my follicles, considering the full result comes 1 year post op anyway

Im on mk677 right now too to speed the hair growth and healing process up.
 
YamahaC76 said:
That's the interesting part though. I told the doctor I was cruising and he said I would be fine with much higher levels of testosterone. I May experiment with tbol in a month...

Should I actually come off entirely? I have been cruising on trt for a year now. I don't think theres a risk of killing my follicles, considering the full result comes 1 year post op anyway

Im on mk677 right now too to speed the hair growth and healing process up.
Click to expand...

Coming off entirely will help your androgen receptors and they will be fresh for your next cycle. I know there's some debate back and forth on that, but I know an ifbb pro who recommends coming off in between cycles for that reason. I take his word for it. Although if you're medically prescribed trt, then I'm not sure I would come off.
 
It's not medical. I honestly have a variety of issues. I was a mental wreck before I started using gear. I was always nervous and very panic like state all the time. Always insecure and nervous about my life. Started using test, boom, all gone. It was just all made up **** (my problems) but it's all hormonal still...

As for my hair loss, that got worse of course. But my benefits to my life helped. I still take HCG because I do want kids someday. So I've been on my own regimen for almost two years now. I got off last August for one month and hopped back on after my HPTA results came back that everything was working.

On top of this, I was always a skinny fat build. skinny arms, but fat stomach. I honestly think I don't need to ever do a lot of gear to get results, but my body recomp has definitely improved over what I use to be, which was 168 fat, but lanky. Now I am 155 and looking better.
 
YamahaC76 said:
It's not medical. I honestly have a variety of issues. I was a mental wreck before I started using gear. I was always nervous and very panic like state all the time. Always insecure and nervous about my life. Started using test, boom, all gone. It was just all made up **** (my problems) but it's all hormonal still...

As for my hair loss, that got worse of course. But my benefits to my life helped. I still take HCG because I do want kids someday. So I've been on my own regimen for almost two years now. I got off last August for one month and hopped back on after my HPTA results came back that everything was working.

On top of this, I was always a skinny fat build. skinny arms, but fat stomach. I honestly think I don't need to ever do a lot of gear to get results, but my body recomp has definitely improved over what I use to be, which was 168 fat, but lanky. Now I am 155 and looking better.
Click to expand...
I am definitely way better mentally on trt then I am totally off everything as well. If you're using long esters, there's probably no real benefit in going off for a month because it's going to take time to clear out of your system anyways. If you going off for two or three months or opposing short esters there could be a benefit, but not a month. Also for what it's worth, I used anabolics for about a decade without any HCG and didn't have any issues conceiving two children. I realize that just because I didn't have any issues doesn't mean others won't, but it's food for thought.
 
steve0178 said:
I am definitely way better mentally on trt then I am totally off everything as well. If you're using long esters, there's probably no real benefit in going off for a month because it's going to take time to clear out of your system anyways. If you going off for two or three months or opposing short esters there could be a benefit, but not a month. Also for what it's worth, I used anabolics for about a decade without any HCG and didn't have any issues conceiving two children. I realize that just because I didn't have any issues doesn't mean others won't, but it's food for thought.
Click to expand...

Thank you brother. That's actually very helpful to know. I definitely am madly in love with a special somebody and didn't even want kids before I met her. But I do now lol.

I wanted to ask, everyone says var can't cause gyno. But I ran into some issues 3 weeks into the cycle of 50mg a day and test @500mg a week. I am pretty damn sure my lab is legit, it took me awhile to get to a source where nobody had 1 bad thing to say about the gear, so I am pretty sure it is real Var. I used their dbol and got gyno symptoms after 1 or 2 days. I have no visual changes and it's not bad at all, but I think I'm just sensitive to anything at this point. I just want to know what hormonal imbalance would cause the gnyo since Var doesn't convert to estrogen...

Just to note, when I would take .1mg of prami, this would generally subside anything the nolva wasn't taking care of.
 
YamahaC76 said:
Can anyone briefly explain how the A:A ratio works? Like is it per mg? You see everywhere the anabolic/androgenic ratio numbers, but it doesn't tell you in what context.
Click to expand...

As Jrock said above, you really can't go by the A/A ratios. They look good on paper, but oftentimes don't match up to real life AT ALL.

Just one example:
Halotestin's Anabolic rating is 1900!!!! So it should build an incredible amount of muscle (on paper). But it doesn't. Not at all. It builds almost NONE.
 
Last edited:
YamahaC76 said:
Thank you brother. That's actually very helpful to know. I definitely am madly in love with a special somebody and didn't even want kids before I met her. But I do now lol.

I wanted to ask, everyone says var can't cause gyno. But I ran into some issues 3 weeks into the cycle of 50mg a day and test @500mg a week. I am pretty damn sure my lab is legit, it took me awhile to get to a source where nobody had 1 bad thing to say about the gear, so I am pretty sure it is real Var. I used their dbol and got gyno symptoms after 1 or 2 days. I have no visual changes and it's not bad at all, but I think I'm just sensitive to anything at this point. I just want to know what hormonal imbalance would cause the gnyo since Var doesn't convert to estrogen...

Just to note, when I would take .1mg of prami, this would generally subside anything the nolva wasn't taking care of.
Click to expand...

I would say that it either had to do with the Test, or the Var was adulterated.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top