Tbol only - rate my cycle
- Thread starter Jsgym
- Start date
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
I would be running a SERM while on to limit suppression. Torem in particular. I wouldn't worry about an AI, maaaaaybe in the rare case of rebound gyno, but I don't think that really happens with Tbol.
You should be able to bump to 50mg minimum
You should be able to bump to 50mg minimum
rtmilburn
Well-known member
*serm not sarm
Renew1
Legend
So you decided not to go with the Test cycle then?
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Fixed, lol. My bad
Jsgym
New member
I often travel so will be hard for a 12 week test cycle
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Just curious how you give oral only cycles a 1 out of 5. Theoredically if you use a SERM on cycle, you won't get shut down, and you shouldn't lose much in PCT. I can see someone holding on to 10lbs after a tbol bulk. That would mean going injectable you should hold on to 50lbs? Just trying to figure your logic..
YoungThor
Well-known member
I’m no genius when it comes to this stuff but I feel like the hatred of oral only cycles is a little extreme. If you take a drug that comes in injectable form or oral form, shouldn’t there be no difference?
During the Cold War, East Germany was consistently the most dominant country at the olympics alongside the USSR and USA. Their athletes had an absolutely insane, scientific approach to training, but what got them to that next level was oral tbol. I’m sure it’ll give you some significant performance enhancement, along with a couple pounds of added muscle. Don’t expect to blow up though.
During the Cold War, East Germany was consistently the most dominant country at the olympics alongside the USSR and USA. Their athletes had an absolutely insane, scientific approach to training, but what got them to that next level was oral tbol. I’m sure it’ll give you some significant performance enhancement, along with a couple pounds of added muscle. Don’t expect to blow up though.
Chados
Well-known member
Yes of course an oral will yield better results than natural but these people were on something all the time. (One) oral cycle is almost always terrible when it comes to keeping gains and you'd have to do countless cycles to compare it to stacking with injectibles. Why don't you think people run dbol for 12 weeks with test E? Cause it just doesn't give the results for 12 weeks. People would run orals every time cause they're faster.. are they better though? No just faster but the results aren't better. Many people stop using them and go injectable only and I'm very close to be doing that myself. Experienced people run primo that's weak as hell if you consider the time it takes and the amount you need.
And this (won't shut you down) it might help a little but suppression is not even close the worst thing you have to deal with when keeping gains. Cortisol is and nolva is not gonna help you with that.
Orals need injectibles to be used properly and with the best results. it doesnt go the other way around.
Chados
Well-known member
The other reply is for you too. If you gain 10lbs of muscle its gonna be your first cycle. You're not gonna bulk up on tbol 10lbs every cycle not even 5. Find it very hard to believe many people will ever keep 10 lean pounds on tbol only. There's a reason test is always included in a cycle
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
I've seen a guy keep 10 clean lbs on a halodrol cycle, which is pretty close to Tbol.
Test is commonplace now but in the past many pro bodybuilders never even touched test. I know guys that get big and strong as hell off dbol only cycles. Yeah, you will lose some of the gains but same goes for testosterone cycles..
Since we are comparing mass results....Let's compare, say, a cycle of dbol 50mg for 8 weeks to a cycle of test prop 500mg for 8 weeks.... DO you still think the test cycle will yield 5x the results? I'd say it would be closer than you think.
Chados
Well-known member
Haha what is this 5 times better? Topic was rate my cycle and I gave it a 1.. I don't think I said test is 5 times better? I don't think you know anyone that has gained 10 clean pounds on a halodrol only cycle sorry I'm not saying you're lying I just don't see it happen. Maybe with superdrol or anadrol not tbol. 10 pounds is a huge amount of muscle for such a mild compound.
Someone else might give it a 5 what do i know.. test prop will without a doubt be better than dbol for keeping gains but now you took the worst oral and arguably the worst injectible (solo) yes I said it, test is a bad androgenic and anabolic builder. Test is used as a base and it should always be there else you'll get suppressed during cycle. Dbol will give more strenght but not more keepable size. You can run things like eq, primo,deca without test.. not recommended but it definitely would yield more results than dbol only.
Kratom267
Active member
I second that, my first Hdrol cycle i kept 15lbs long after PCT was completed. I think most guys fail to continue eating as much as they did on cycle...giving it there "all" on cycle, then slowly lowering protein/cal intake during PCT and after, therefore losing gains.
Chados
Well-known member
And you think these 15 lbs was lean muscle on halodrol? On what 4-6 weeks?
Kratom267
Active member
Mostly lean, yes. 5 week cycle, 50mg Hdrol from CEL. My bf% went up on cycle, but not much. I know it sounds crazy, but i gained close to 18lbs during that cycle...my first time to mess with anything anabolic (never even touched creatine or test boosters, etc). The 3lbs i lost during PCT and after was mostly water weight gained and the 1% fat.
Comparing that first cycle to others that followed (Pmag, then Hdrol/Trenazone) i didn't gain near that amount, usually 7-10lbs, etc.
YoungThor
Well-known member
That’s pretty crazy results. How long were you training for when you decided to run that hdrol cycle?
Chados
Well-known member
Sure you might look better with these pounds on you but 15 lbs lean muscle is just not reasonable on halodrol and 5 weeks. Maybe if you weigh 130 when starting.
Kratom267
Active member
5yrs or so.
Kratom267
Active member
All I'm saying is that everyone reacts differently to each compound. Most seem to gain around 10lbs on something like Hdrol/Pmag, then lose a few lbs during PCT. But it can vary of course.
And like I mentioned, the following cycles never produced such extreme gains, even with larger dosages and different compounds that usually produce better results. I chalk it up to me being a 'first timer' back then. The worst part was everyone knowing I was "on something"...And having to buy new clothes as well!
*also forgot to mention, i was running LGI's Stano200 at 800mg's during that first Hdrol cycle...doubt that made much a difference as far as results though, correct?
And like I mentioned, the following cycles never produced such extreme gains, even with larger dosages and different compounds that usually produce better results. I chalk it up to me being a 'first timer' back then. The worst part was everyone knowing I was "on something"...And having to buy new clothes as well!
*also forgot to mention, i was running LGI's Stano200 at 800mg's during that first Hdrol cycle...doubt that made much a difference as far as results though, correct?
Chados
Well-known member
I used to gain 20 pounds on things like superdrol and I could see a person keeping 10 when they are new to the compound and New to aas. But superdrol is a massive gainer. 5 pounds on someone new to aas is an insane amount of muscles and it will be noticible. I can still gain 20 pounds and keep it with a little stronger cycle but I know all won't be muscles. I can look fuller, and temporarily leaner even at a huge weight gain but it's not gonna last. The steroids will keep you shredded during the cycle, superdrol will pump water in to your muscles.
If you somehow managed to gain and keep that much lean mass of halodrol I assume you weren't that big and you responded to a new compound. No matter what it's beyond good results, it's just not reasonable expectations.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
You said if you don't take test you will get suppressed on cycle. I'm sure you know this, but testosterone suppresses you, just like every other steroid
You just don't feel bad on test because it reduces to dht and aromatizes to estrogen. That is why it is typically a base.
But there are orals that can be used as a base...Dbol and trest come to mind, as they have both androgenic and estrogenic components
And I personally think a 50mg dbol cycle for 8 weeks is just as good as a test prop cycle of the same length. Or almost as good, and no pinning.
My little bro just did 5 1/2 weeks of 25mg dbol and he put on some good size and got strong as ****. We were grappling yesterday and I had him pinned in side mount in a full Americana, tight, his elbow was down to his hip and he powered out of it. I was like holy **** man. Dbol is some serious ****.
My buddy, who was a seasoned 45 year old AAS user,, took halodrol for 8 weeks, went from 50 to 75 to 100mg, put on 15lbs and kept 10. Strength much higher too.
Kratom267
Active member
Very true. I never messed with Sdrol, always feared the side effects like estro and liver, etc. Not sure exactly how much i weighed before starting Hdrol (maybe only 145?) back then, I was (and still am) very lean and always struggled to gain weight even with proper diet and working my ass off! My girlfriend at the time was a nutritionist for a local hospital.
Hdrol put me in a whole other level though...insanely surprised looking in the mirror one morning around week 2, could actually SEE myself getting bigger overnight haha.
Kratom267
Active member
Yeah, dudes at the gym were laughing at such a low dose i was running (50mgs)...did the trick though! I later did a cycle of Hdrol/Trenazone and ran the Hdrol at 75mgs....didn't see much from the higher dosage besides added sides.
greg916
New member
I think there is some conversion but hdrol is an active compound on its own. Also, I do understand the other posters point. 15lbs of lean tissue in 5 or 6 weeks is insane. I mean stack up 15 lbs of steak lol it’s a lot.
I’ve never ran so I can’t really comment on it’s effectiveness.
Regardless of what compound you run there is going to be shutdown after you cycle off.
I’ve never ran so I can’t really comment on it’s effectiveness.
Regardless of what compound you run there is going to be shutdown after you cycle off.
Chados
Well-known member
It doesnt work like that. Without test you have no production in your body almost. The main problem after cycle isn't supression but cortisol. I said it earlier and I agree that dbol will give more strenght but not keepable gains. I mean you can try it yourself , I have..
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
C'mon man, you know that when pinning test your testosterone production shuts down, just like taking any other aas or oral. And yes, I've ran dbol cycles with good results. Would've probably gotten a little more if test was added, but test isn't always needed, especially with aromatizing oral compounds like Dbol and trest.
I bet 25mg dbol + 50mg tbol for 8 weeks would be a fantastic cycle. And you wouldn't feel shut down at all because of the dbol.
Chados
Well-known member
Of course I know but on trt you have testosterone in your body right? Same thing here. Dbol is not gonna replace your test. Dbol and trest are on different levels.
Dbol is stronger than tbol but most of the weight gain will be bloat of you don't dose it low. 500 mg test would be about 70 mg dbol/day if you go by mg.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Nothing replaces test, technically. But there are other compounds that can be ran that will have you feeling good while on cycle, like dbol and trest. Your body needs estrogen, which test, dbol and trest all provide. And you need strong androgens to feel good (alpha) and all 3 provide this as well.
Do you think Arnold cruised and blasted on dbol and primo while feeling like crap the whole time? No, because the DBOL replaced his testosterone, providing strong androgens and estrogen. Dbol is a "test base" in the common meaning of the phrase. Does it do as good a job as testosterone, I'm not sure....My experiences say yes, for cycles of moderate length....What say you Mike Arnold?
Chados
Well-known member
Arnold used deca also and I don't know wether test was included. It's not just about feeling good. We're talking about what's most effective and having used both solo there's no competition. Test alone isn't gonna produce insane gains on (one) cycle either it's just no realistic. I still think you'll better off running eq, primo or tren if you wanna keep gains than dbol. That being said it would be a bit stupid doing so.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
The only point I'm trying to make is, you don't HAVE to pin test to have a successful cycle. The more compounds you add the better (to an extent), but for someone whose wife doesn't let them pin, for instance you can run successful oral only cycles. It's just not optimal. Again, I think the best standalone oral is probably dbol if I had to chose 1. Dbol/ Tbol would be even better at 25/50.
Chados
Well-known member
It's far superior than natural but that's as far as it goes and especially for strenght.
I completly disagree with dbol, tbol maybe but there are stronger and just as clean compounds, SD comes to mind. Dbol is fantastic for strenght cause of the bloat, the fact that you dose it low just means less bloat which kinda takes away a lot of the compounds ability. Dbol gains are just very hard to keep. You also have anadrol which might be a bit harder to keep, winstrol, nanodrol.
There's a big chance youd keep more muscles after dbol than tbol cause it's stronger but chances are also youd lose more of the gains put on.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Yeah I agree. You'll gain more muscle on DBOL, and should theoretically keep more after the cycle. Tbol is just so darn low on side effects that it makes it a breeze to run, and not have to worry about estrogen, blood pressure, hair loss, bloating all the undesireable stuff. Tbol is like Dbol 2.0. My favorite compound fro sides vs gains and I love the pump I get from Tbol too.
Chados
Well-known member
I used to like it but the price I have to pay and the amount I need just doesn't cut it anymore. I have however started using primo more, weak an slow gains but very easy to keep and just gives you the feeling of hard work more than the aas. These slow gainers seems to be much easier to keep and it doesnt shock your body as much.
Eq/primo/mast is just fantastic, super lean gains, very safe compared to deca and tren and you just feel better on it.
AnabolicGuru
Well-known member
10lbs is do-able on tbol if the person trains properly and eats enough. Obviously it will vary on the individual, but I’m up 11lbs running it at 40mg; although there’s no saying how much of that I’ll retain.
Chados
Well-known member
You can most certainly gain 10 lbs on tbol or almost anything but it's impossible its 10 clean pounds, I mean you're not a rookie either. You can keep everything by eating more but if not you will loose some of it and if you eat more you'll probably add fat and water. This doesn't mean you won't look better than before or be stronger than ever. It's just no logical during any cycle that every pound is muscle. I gained 28 pounds one time on winstrol tbol and test, I was shredded cause winny took all water out. Let's be honest, did I gain 28 pounds of lean mass?. There will be water with such gains just not targeted on your abs, your arms looks fuller, shoulders, more veiny but there will be water there you can't see and it doesn't look bad because of that.
Chados
Well-known member
You can most certainly gain 10 lbs on tbol or almost anything but it's impossible its 10 clean pounds, I mean you're not a rookie either. You can keep everything by eating more but if not you will loose some of it and if you eat more you'll probably add fat and water. This doesn't mean you won't look better than before or be stronger than ever. It's just no logical during any cycle that every pound is muscle. I gained 28 pounds one time on winstrol tbol and test, I was shredded cause winny took all water out. Let's be honest, did I gain 28 pounds of lean mass?. There will be water with such gains just not targeted on your abs, your arms looks fuller, shoulders, more veiny but there will be water there you can't see and it doesn't look bad because of that.
Lost 12, looked better than before but worse than during cycle.
RickyBlobby
Well-known member
Basically Ii think to pin test is optimal during a cycle. But if you are like many, that don't want to pin for whatever reason, you can still make good gains on orals. I think the idea that oral only cycles are useless is bogus. Not optimal, but not useless either.