Taking a SERM vs. HCG for on-cycle LH/FSH/test support

SpicedCider

SpicedCider

Well-known member
I am planning on starting a TBol-only cycle next month and am wondering what the best ancillary drug to take during the cycle would be in order to help prevent LH/FSH/test levels from crashing. I understand that the concept of taking a SERM such as toremifene throughout the duration of a cycle has become a popular one in recent months and seems to be an effective regimen for preventing crashes in LH and FSH. However, I understand that the same benefit can be derived from injecting HCG, so that leads me to my question -- between the two options, is one better than the other? Would it make more sense to just inject HCG so as to avoid the additional side effects of taking a SERM?
 
ok well.... lets dive into this head first..

you will not gain as much if you run a SERM with your cycle. the cold hard facts are, estrogen is an intristic part of muscle growth.. your technically cutting yourself off at the knees.

an AI can control aromatase issues but with out looking it up memory says t-bol wont aromatize. so that leaves you with not much of an estrogen problem to thwart..

this makes HCG sound and look great for your other option. i might add that HCG will prevent testicular shrinkage, whereas a SERM will not.

so you have to ask yourself if your ok getting half of the gains you want just to raise LH/FSH or if you want plump balls that shoot ropes.. you choose your fate!
 
A SERM will keep your balls plump. I know from experience. I would say a combo of the 2 would be best. I have seen several sets of bloodwork using a serm on cycle, and it seems hit or miss as far as keeping testosterone production up. Some guys, like me can run a fairly heavy cycle and keep T levels in the normal rnge. Others T dropped dramatically but recovery was much easier due to good LH/ FSH numbers.

It's just weird that it kept T normal for some but not others...
 
RickyBlobby said:
A SERM will keep your balls plump. I know from experience. I would say a combo of the 2 would be best. I have seen several sets of bloodwork using a serm on cycle, and it seems hit or miss as far as keeping testosterone production up. Some guys, like me can run a fairly heavy cycle and keep T levels in the normal rnge. Others T dropped dramatically but recovery was much easier due to good LH/ FSH numbers.

It's just weird that it kept T normal for some but not others...
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Thanks. So what sort of dosing would you recommend for someone who is considering taking both torem and HCG during their cycle? 250 mcg 2x/wk of HCG, and 60 mg EOD of torem? Or would it still be necessary to take torem every day?
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
ok well.... lets dive into this head first..

you will not gain as much if you run a SERM with your cycle. the cold hard facts are, estrogen is an intristic part of muscle growth.. your technically cutting yourself off at the knees.

an AI can control aromatase issues but with out looking it up memory says t-bol wont aromatize. so that leaves you with not much of an estrogen problem to thwart..

this makes HCG sound and look great for your other option. i might add that HCG will prevent testicular shrinkage, whereas a SERM will not.

so you have to ask yourself if your ok getting half of the gains you want just to raise LH/FSH or if you want plump balls that shoot ropes.. you choose your fate!
Click to expand...

Sounds like you’re implying that serms will reduce estrogen? Which is false. I would use both and and AI because the HCG is going to spike your estrogen. You want to keep estrogen somewhat low because AI’s cannot control the estrogen boost from HCG. I would do weekly blood work so you get this dialed in. if you’re willing to use hcg just run a low dose of test with it as well
 
The Express 42 said:
Sounds like you’re implying that serms will reduce estrogen? Which is false. I would use both and and AI because the HCG is going to spike your estrogen. You want to keep estrogen somewhat low because AI’s cannot control the estrogen boost from HCG. I would do weekly blood work so you get this dialed in. if you’re willing to use hcg just run a low dose of test with it as well
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Well, if I take toremifene during the cycle (primarily for the purpose of maintaining LH/FSH levels) in addition to HCG, would that be enough to prevent symptoms of high estrogen since the estrogen receptors themselves would be blocked?
 
The Express 42 said:
Sounds like you’re implying that serms will reduce estrogen? Which is false. I would use both and and AI because the HCG is going to spike your estrogen. You want to keep estrogen somewhat low because AI’s cannot control the estrogen boost from HCG. I would do weekly blood work so you get this dialed in. if you’re willing to use hcg just run a low dose of test with it as well
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using one during a cycle will certainly effect the amount of estrogen available to attach itself to the receptors being occupying enstead by the SERM.
 
I don't see the point of a serm except raloxifene on cycle, especially if using HCG. And HCG doesn't even need to be used throughout. Just a couple of blasts at key points in time will keep the manhood plumped and working.
 
xR1pp3Rx said:
using one during a cycle will certainly effect the amount of estrogen available to attach itself to the receptors being occupying enstead by the SERM.
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But it won’t reduce estrogen it will only prevent gyno, your estrogen could be sky high. An AI is a must a serm on cycle will not control estrogen whatsoever
 
A few guys have suggested that I inject test throughout the cycle (as opposed to just running a TBol-only cycle), especially since I'm considering injecting HCG anyways. I'm still not sure if I want to include test in this cycle or save it for the second TBol cycle I'm planning in the spring, but just out of curiosity -- if I DO decide to run test alongside the TBol, what would be a good dosing regimen, considering that this would be my first "legit" steroid cycle? 500 mg of Test E or cyp. injected 1x/week (I've read this is a good first-time cycle dose)? Or would 500 mg/week be too much considering that I'll also be running TBol?

Thanks
 
Old Witch said:
I don't see the point of a serm except raloxifene on cycle, especially if using HCG. And HCG doesn't even need to be used throughout. Just a couple of blasts at key points in time will keep the manhood plumped and working.
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Do you think an injection of 250 iu 1x/week would be too frequent?
 
LaserGoPewPew said:
Just curious - why are you taking HCG ? (I havent looked into this - just taking in all the info on the board)
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Well, the plan (for now) is to run an oral-only cycle of TBol, so there's a good chance that I'll end up either shut down or at least severely suppressed by the end of the cycle. HCG mimics the effects of LH/FSH (one of you guys correct me on this if I'm wrong), so I should theoretically be able to avoid the most noticeable symptoms of suppression by injecting it throughout the cycle.
 
SpicedCider said:
A few guys have suggested that I inject test throughout the cycle (as opposed to just running a TBol-only cycle), especially since I'm considering injecting HCG anyways. I'm still not sure if I want to include test in this cycle or save it for the second TBol cycle I'm planning in the spring, but just out of curiosity -- if I DO decide to run test alongside the TBol, what would be a good dosing regimen, considering that this would be my first "legit" steroid cycle? 500 mg of Test E or cyp. injected 1x/week (I've read this is a good first-time cycle dose)? Or would 500 mg/week be too much considering that I'll also be running TBol?

Thanks
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500 split 2 time per week would be better
 
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