T4 cycle (Help please)

ThisGuy02

ThisGuy02

Banned
So I ran T4 over the course of a 6 week cycle and I REALLY didn't feel that ph are necesary to maintain muscle, as is the case w/ T3.

I have another 6 or so weeks left over and was thinking of running it 4 weeks w/ only a fat burner (Venom Hyperdrive), while continuing regular training w/ moderate cardio.

I'd like to just go through the T4 I have left now and get some T3 for my next cycle in a few months.

Anybody want to weigh in on this?
 
Tom 185 said:
why are you switching to T3 next time instead of T4 again?
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It just didn't really do that much for me. Diet and training were in line, but to be honest, I had better results the few times I used Dicana at 6x a day alongside my cycles. It wasn't bad, but not what I was expecting.

I was actually below maintenance cals on cycle and doing cardio 4-5 times weekly, plus was taking albuterol at 12mg and I still gained 6 lb. so I'm not too concerned about preserving muscle while on T3. I'm sure that what I'm planning (Propadrol @ 60mg, Ztrol @ 300mg) will be more than sufficient alongside an increased protein intake to keep my muscle and even do some hardening/defining.
 
To be honest, I wouldn't worry about catabolism on T3 below 100mcg or 80mcg. I ramped up to 80 and stayed there for a few weeks and am just coming down now...my cal's have been around 2000 and I've been growing while leaning out some too. Maybe this is because I have yet to hit a major plateau though....something to consider.

I honestly don't think I needed any PH's on this cycle either now that I've done it. Now if I were to go over 100mcg for any length of time, then definately...I think people mention catabolism too quickly on t3 even.

edit: I'm going to ramp down to 0, then do the same as you, another 4 weeks or so, but go up a little higher than 80mcg and was also thinking of the venom hyperdrive. I think because my body is basically still growing, that catabolism is of little concern tbh.
 
ThisGuy02 said:
It just didn't really do that much for me. Diet and training were in line, but to be honest, I had better results the few times I used Dicana at 6x a day alongside my cycles. It wasn't bad, but not what I was expecting.

I was actually below maintenance cals on cycle and doing cardio 4-5 times weekly, plus was taking albuterol at 12mg and I still gained 6 lb. so I'm not too concerned about preserving muscle while on T3. I'm sure that what I'm planning (Propadrol @ 60mg, Ztrol @ 300mg) will be more than sufficient alongside an increased protein intake to keep my muscle and even do some hardening/defining.
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i would focus on balanced calories for keeping muscle, not protein.

what dosages were you running for your T4?
 
Well Tom, I ramped from 50mcg up to 400mcg (which is supposed to be an equivalent dosage to 100mcg T3...asuming your body converts it all).

As for cals, my diet is pretty well balanced. I keep my carbs pretty low (definitely under 100g p/d), and fats moderate, all from quality sources, probably in the vicinity of 60%/25%/15% (p/c/f).

GP, I'm under the same impression. I was planning on takin gyour advice w/ the oral dropper and gettting some quality T3 from a scientific supplier, then going 20mcg ramped up to 100mcg and back down to 0. Something like this:

20/20/40/40/60/60/80
100/100/100/100/100/100/100
100/100/100/100/100/100/100
80/60/60/40/40/20/20

Short and sweet, and very effective.

Depending on how the Venom/T4 solo run treats me, I may include Venom during that future cycle also. I really have not been able to find anythign that so completely kills hunger as Venom Hyperdrive. Really solid fat burner and app. suppressant.
 
Yeah definately get a 1mL oral syringe (not the dropper), which measures 10th's of a mL. You can get them at any pharmacy behind the counter.

Once I ramp down I might wait a cpl weeks and then do another 4 week cycle just like you listed above. I never went to 100mcg during this run, but I definately got some decent results without lowering my carbs much (I've got troubles with carbs)...I think the venom hyperdrive should help with that though like you're saying. Once that's done I'm going to get myself some NOW thyroid energy too as post cycle therapy (from NP).
 
Gutterpump said:
Yeah definately get a 1mL oral syringe (not the dropper), which measures 10th's of a mL. You can get them at any pharmacy behind the counter.

Once I ramp down I might wait a cpl weeks and then do another 4 week cycle just like you listed above. I never went to 100mcg during this run, but I definately got some decent results without lowering my carbs much (I've got troubles with carbs)...I think the venom hyperdrive should help with that though like you're saying. Once that's done I'm going to get myself some NOW thyroid energy too as post cycle therapy (from NP).
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not a bad idea at all.

you get any sides? headaches, blood pressure, palpitations, etc?
 
I"m using 300mcg T4 while off cycle and just keeping protein intake high and ya it's helping to cut but i think i'll just stick with T3 so i KNOW i'm getting all active hormone. Because ya you can take 300mcg but it doesn't mean that your body is converting it all to the supposed 75mcg T3. I have been dropping fat and gaining muscle at the same time though :). I'll be running a nice high dose of epi in a month or so along with T3/clen to finally finish up my cutting phase :).
 
ThisGuy02 said:
not a bad idea at all.

you get any sides? headaches, blood pressure, palpitations, etc?
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I am now that I've been taking the emax/h-drol/zol combo and I'm also on cycle support...Hard to say if it's from the t3/alb or the addition of emax. I'm leaning to the 25mg of emax causing the headaches/bloodpressure rise. No palpitations atm tho.

When I was taking t3 on it's own with a lot of caffeine and no alb, I would definately have a much higher heartrate and occasional palpitations but it wasn't bad - also had no headaches. But now with t3/alb, I'm getting some shakes and occasional muscle twitches, etc...but it's pretty mild and manageable. The t3 definately seemed to increase the effect of any type of stimulant.

Overall, I would say side effects from T3 were very minimal / unnoticeable for the most part at the levels I've been doing it at. Nothing that effected my everyday living that is, nothing uncomfortable. The only time were I felt really off was when I had taken t3/alb and had an energry drink and a couple redline pills for an extra kick. I never did that again, maybe an energy drink here or there and that's it.
 
ThisGuy02 said:
Well Tom, I ramped from 50mcg up to 400mcg (which is supposed to be an equivalent dosage to 100mcg T3...asuming your body converts it all).

As for cals, my diet is pretty well balanced. I keep my carbs pretty low (definitely under 100g p/d), and fats moderate, all from quality sources, probably in the vicinity of 60%/25%/15% (p/c/f).

GP, I'm under the same impression. I was planning on takin gyour advice w/ the oral dropper and gettting some quality T3 from a scientific supplier, then going 20mcg ramped up to 100mcg and back down to 0. Something like this:

20/20/40/40/60/60/80
100/100/100/100/100/100/100
100/100/100/100/100/100/100
80/60/60/40/40/20/20

Short and sweet, and very effective.

Depending on how the Venom/T4 solo run treats me, I may include Venom during that future cycle also. I really have not been able to find anythign that so completely kills hunger as Venom Hyperdrive. Really solid fat burner and app. suppressant.
Click to expand...

ok i thought maybe u didnt know about the 4:1 T4:T3 ratio...

i wont tell you how to run your diet but i will tell u that i am in school for nutrition and we are taught carbs should never be below 50% of calories...the exact breakdown for athletes is 55/25/20...carb/fat/protein....however, taking these substances into account...protein can be bumped up since ur body can utilize more of it...if you exceed 40g of protein (not on anything that enhances protein synthesis), it will be stored as fat or energy (not optimal for energy obviously carbs are). carbs don't make you fat...its all about balance and adequacy.

personally, i run 50/30/20 on cycle....carb/protein/fat....post-workout alone you should be getting 90-120g of high-glycemic carbs....they will be stored as muscle, since your body is depleted of glycogen...not stored as fat...this is considering u are taking in 30-40g protein post-workout, some studies have shown a 3:1 carb to protein ratio is the most effective post-workout...

on top of those carbs, quality carbs from oats, whole grain, brown rice, wheat pasta, etc will do you good...dont underestimate the anabolism of carbs
 
Ahh it's good to read that. even while cutting, I have troubles lowering my carbs to anything less than 300g a day lol (mostly from oats though). Never was into those ketogenic diets.
 
Tom 185 said:
ok i thought maybe u didnt know about the 4:1 T4:T3 ratio...

i wont tell you how to run your diet but i will tell u that i am in school for nutrition and we are taught carbs should never be below 50% of calories...the exact breakdown for athletes is 55/25/20...carb/fat/protein....however, taking these substances into account...protein can be bumped up since ur body can utilize more of it...if you exceed 40g of protein (not on anything that enhances protein synthesis), it will be stored as fat or energy (not optimal for energy obviously carbs are). carbs don't make you fat...its all about balance and adequacy.

personally, i run 50/30/20 on cycle....carb/protein/fat....post-workout alone you should be getting 90-120g of high-glycemic carbs....they will be stored as muscle, since your body is depleted of glycogen...not stored as fat...this is considering u are taking in 30-40g protein post-workout, some studies have shown a 3:1 carb to protein ratio is the most effective post-workout...

on top of those carbs, quality carbs from oats, whole grain, brown rice, wheat pasta, etc will do you good...dont underestimate the anabolism of carbs
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well, I'll definitely research it. Everything I've ever read on cutting suggests going lower carb higher protein on cut, but I'm fdefinitely with as far as taking in good carbs. I include wheat bread and pasta, oatmeal, brown rice and occasionally a sweet potato. I just keep minimal servings per meal and usually don't have any complex carbs in my evening meal, unless it's after weight-training.

GP, I'm not surprised the addition of Ergo has brought up your bp, but really, considering the amount of things you've added to your first cycle, you've tolerated really well. Stay strict with that post cycle therapy and you should keep some nice gains.

Yeah, I'm pretty much decided on burning through my remaining T4. In fact, maybe I'll just rip through all 6 weeks and finish it all...no use saving 2 weeks, and then I'll only have a 4 week layoff before my next cycle - pretty excited about the idea of it (propadrol, winztrol, T3 and Venom to curb my app. should = a SICK cut).

EDIT: Now that I think of it, I could probably afford to increase some carb intake w/ the T3.
 
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ThisGuy02 said:
well, I'll definitely research it. Everything I've ever read on cutting suggests going lower carb higher protein on cut, but I'm fdefinitely with as far as taking in good carbs. I include wheat bread and pasta, oatmeal, brown rice and occasionally a sweet potato. I just keep minimal servings per meal and usually don't have any complex carbs in my evening meal, unless it's after weight-training.

EDIT: Now that I think of it, I could probably afford to increase some carb intake w/ the T3.
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good to see..good luck!
 
ThisGuy02 said:
GP, I'm not surprised the addition of Ergo has brought up your bp, but really, considering the amount of things you've added to your first cycle, you've tolerated really well. Stay strict with that post cycle therapy and you should keep some nice gains..
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This is true, to be honest I knew what I was getting into and the expected possible sides, and I have to say I'm pretty surprised and pleased at my own tolerance to this cycle, which turned out to be much more advanced that I had planned in the beginning. I definately wouldn't be doing all of this if I hadn't planned on ramping up on the compounds and also introducing a new compound gradually one at a time to assay tolerance.

I forgot to give you reps on the info/help and suggestions on the cycle too :thumbsup: Props for the help.

About the diet though, I'm still stuck on a 40/40/20 diet..during a bulk or cut I haven't changed it, I've only changed the amount of food + cal's I take in. Seems to be working ok for me that way. During a bulk though I definately take my food enzymes to process that much protein/nutrients. Might be the most important part of a natural/clean bulk cycle, which is all I've done so far.
 
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