T3 and natural anabolics
- Thread starter andros
- Start date
andros
Member
Hey Rodja! I really value your opinions so would mind taking a look at the following stack and tell me what you think. The diet and exercise will be in bobo-check so don't worry about that. =)
Andros' non hormonal 18 week cutter:
1-4 Clen+Keto, 40mcg IGF1LR3
5-10 NHA Stack, T3
11-14 Clen+Keto, 40mcg IGF1LR3, Thyroid PCT
15-18 NHA Stack, T3
19-22 Thyroid PCT
Support supps:
DCP, Powerfull, Xtend, Vit c, multi vit, glutamine, flax oil.
0-hero
Banned
IMO there is nothing on the market that would hault the catabolic nature of T3 at full dosing (100-200mcgs) depending on tolerance.
T3's nutrient turn over properties are titan-like, if you are really going to run it without synthetic anabolics i would use it at 12.5-25mcgs a day max.
T3's nutrient turn over properties are titan-like, if you are really going to run it without synthetic anabolics i would use it at 12.5-25mcgs a day max.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Well, an 18 week cut w/ Bobo will be enough, but if you still want to run a cycle I have a few ?'s first. What are the doses of clen, T3, NHA, keto, and thyroid PCT.
andros
Member
The t3 will taper up up to 75mcg and down again
Clen will taper up to 200mcg
Ketotifen will taper up to 1mg
Thyroid pct will be LX and NOW Thyroid Energy
NHA i'm looking for some advice on.
Thanx =)
Rodja
Board Sponsor
That is a lot of clen for anyone. I assume you have taken it before, but I still cannot say that is a good idea and I love clen. T3 looks ok and the thyroid PCT is also solid. What are your stats BTW?
andros
Member
i have done clen in the past and 200mcg seems to be my zone.
i'm 5.9, 198lbs, 12-13%, 31yrs,
What dosing would you recommend for the NHA?
0-hero
Banned
75mcgs without anabolic support will yield some muscle loss, almost guarenteed.
200mcg's of clen? You sure its clen? lol
Ive had blood work done before and after my T3 cycles in the past (3 years ago with no thyroid PCT) and all TSH/T4 levels have been normal.
The taper down is the essential part.
200mcg's of clen? You sure its clen? lol
Ive had blood work done before and after my T3 cycles in the past (3 years ago with no thyroid PCT) and all TSH/T4 levels have been normal.
The taper down is the essential part.
Rodja
Board Sponsor
Start at 4 caps of Activate and 2 caps of RR and increase if needed. Also don't forget to use strength as a gauge for catabolism; if your strength is decreasing significantly, then add some kcals for a few days.
0-hero
Banned
Are you saying 75mcgs of t3 on a cut (so i am assuming reduced cals / increased exercise) wont in effect be catabolic?
Have you ever actually run the stuff? It shreds nutrients like theres no tomorrow.
rampage jackson
Registered User
Wow...are you serious? I'd always heard the opposite...in fact, thats the reason I've never ran it off cycle...I think I remember Dr. D saying that a moderate dosage of t3 stacked with NHA would turn over nutrients like a madman!
Grunt76
Well-known member
That is what I am saying. Yes I have run the stuff quite a few times I am on it right now actually.
Yes it does turn over nutrients like madness. Of course, that is how it burns fat. But it does nothing to aid in muscle LOSS per se. Yes it will deplete glycogen stores, yes it will make you temporarily weaker due to its action on the calcium pump, but after all is said and done, it only gives the IMPRESSION of being catabolic. Of course the calorie deficit itself is somewhat catabolic, I'm not saying it isn't. So just don't lift like you are on an all-out bulk when cutting with it...
After the fact, you will see that you "pump up" almost immediately the next day. Transient effects gone, your muscle size and strength is back at 100%. Clenbuterol OTOH seems absolutely catabolic to muscle in humans.
rampage jackson
Registered User
...this is hilarious! I'd always heard ppl claim that clen was anti-catabolic... what you think about Albuterol?
Grunt76
Well-known member
Albuterol is anti-catabolic to muscle in humans. Proven.
0-hero
Banned
Out of experience running T3 without AAS support i would strongly disagree with you grunt.
12.5mcgs is sufficient to turnover nutrients at a considerable rate (often used to ingest more protein effectively) so in theory if the diet isnt nailed then even that low a dose could be deemed as catabolic?
There are a multitude of factors that could attribute to being in a catabolic state, any compound which turns over nutrients by default must be included under this umbrella.
12.5mcgs is sufficient to turnover nutrients at a considerable rate (often used to ingest more protein effectively) so in theory if the diet isnt nailed then even that low a dose could be deemed as catabolic?
There are a multitude of factors that could attribute to being in a catabolic state, any compound which turns over nutrients by default must be included under this umbrella.
kjkriston
Board Supporter
IMHO I would never run t3 with out AAS support if I wasnt expecting to lose some mass.....although @ 75mcg I'm not sure I run in the 175-200 range....but always with some sort of AAS... Ialso a non-believer in the taper... the thyroid is one of the fastest recovering glands in the body...but I am fairly alone on these thoughts...I had blood work done 8 days ofter a heavy t3 cycle and the results were low normal already...3 weeks later back completely....I have run 7 t3 cycles varying from 2 weeks to 8 weeks.... I wil,l agree that Albuterol would be a nice addition for a lot of reasons.... I hate CLEN
rockhard_4eva
Banned
my camel is on t3 and jungle warefare and is getting a little weaker - he could only do 4 reps of 3 plate squats, he usually does 7.
But he is down 10 lb in 3 weeks
But he is down 10 lb in 3 weeks
andros
Member
Right on bro! Thanx so much! Much respect!
wrestler119
Member
ok, i am taking in 300 grams of protein divided into 7 meals a day. do you think going up to 60 mcg of T3 a day will be catabolic? i was planning on going 15, 30, 45, 60 for 3 days at time then tapering back down.