T-nation is against mk677? do you agree?

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Posted by Landmonster:

Article by Christian Thibideaux. Surprisingly, is against the use of Mk-677. Here is his quote, verbatim.

"What About MK-667?

While it's not a SARM – it's an orally effective peptide – it's often put in the same boat because it's sold at the same places and is taken orally (most other peptides are taken by injection).

MK is by far one of the worst products you can take, at least in "normal" doses. It works mostly by increasing growth hormone production, but it increases it for too long, giving you tons of pulses over a 20-24 hour period. As such, it decreases insulin sensitivity really quickly and it will also bloat the f**k out of you. You'll gain 10 pounds of water overnight and look like a water buffalo.

It'll make your blood pressure skyrocket too, and it can inhibit your natural growth hormone production because of its super long action."

Do you agree with this? I thought this was still one of the most popular hGH peptide tools on the market."


-----------------------------------

I disagree with every statement t-nation said about mk677 in the above post.

As a 49 year old bodybuilder and scientist, I believe in lab work and how my body feels as opposed to hearsay (t-nation).

I have over 8 labs below to prove that mk677 works without side effects on your natural gh and igf-1, insulin sensitivity, and liver values, and bloat is easily controlled (see my tips below, it has to do with keto diet).

* Mk677 does NOT raise my bloodpressure, pharm grade hgh injections from China do raise my bloodpressure however.
My bloodpressure while on mk677 is only 120/70. My bloodpressure varies from 110 to 127. I am on test cypionate replacement therpay. I use 175mg a week (one 50mg shot every other day with 1/2 mg of arimidex with every shot).

* MK677 does NOT bloat me, as I am on a ketogenic diet year round, with extra carbs (1/2 cup oatmeal) preworkout (extra carbs on workout days) to fuel my workout for performance. If you consume lots of carbs everyday, then yes, you will get some bloat with mk677. On a keto diet, mk677 does not bloat me, what does bloat me is using above 200mg of testosterone a week without arimidex.

I will post my testosterone and E2 bloods in 3 days, as I just had levels tested this morning.

* MK677 does NOT ruin your natural gh and igf-1 levels after you come off it, that is a complete lie. See my bloodwork
below. On my 2nd year on mk677, my bloods once again reached the levels of 3.4 iu pharm grade hgh from china with just 25mg of mk677, just like the 1st year I was on. Inbetween my time off on mk677, my bloods were normal 227 ng/ml igf-1.

* MK677 does not over stimulate your gh and igf-1 levels, it mearly returns them to the level you once had when you were
a very young adult, the body puts a regulatory system in place once you start taking mk677, that allows it to raise no higher than the high level of around an 18 year old. A system of checks and balances is imposed naturally by the body to keep it in range, this was proven by the beagles study on mk677, and my own many labs on mk667 prove the same (see below).

* I do not get lethargy at all while on mk677, but if you are one of the unlucky ones that do, I would suggest dropping the mk677 or switching to real hgh injections. I only use mk677 for 7 months of the year, then take 5 months off.

----------------------my original post in the mk677 thread:----------------------------------

I will not repost all my labs here (just some), you can go back and see my labs attached as pics to original thread.

Just got results back a few weeks ago for new year 2019 on mk677 after 1 month on.

Results came back on the high end for a 18 year old, and I'm age 49, very impressed.

IGF-1 range for my age group of 48 ----------- 67 to 205 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for older adults ----------------- 59 to 225 ng/ml igf-1
IGF-1 range for young adults is -------------- 116 to 358 ng/ml igf-1

4-6-18, baseline igf -1 = 227 ng/ml------------------------------------------ baseline
4-11-18, 2 days on 4iu of Chinese pharm grade HGH = 380 ng/ml-----------------increase of 153 points
4-25-18, 2 weeks on mk677 only = 372 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 145 points (nearly 150 point increase only lasts 2 weeks)
9-7-18, 6 months on mk677 only = 322 ng/ml------------------------------------increase of 95 points
11-2-18, 8 months on mk677 only = 304 ng/ml-----------------------------------increase of 75 points (levels start to fall after 6 months on mk677)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
new year:
3-18-19, 4 weeks on mk677 only = 327 ng/ml-------------------------------------increase of 100 points, (2-22-19 thru 3-18-19 thus far)

Year 2018 = 322 ng/ml igf-1 (average level during 1st 6 months on 25mg mk677 in morning) is equivalent of 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh for me.

Year 2019 = 327 ng/ml igf-1 (after 1 month on 25mg mk677 in the am) is equivalent to 3.4 iu pharm grade GH from China, as 95 point raise per each 1iu of hgh
for me.

Comments:

I like to take mk677 for 7 months of the year, then take 5 months off, then repeat, as you start to get diminishing returns after the 6th month on it, it is then good to take a break from it, as even the mk677 studies on older adults showed after the 6th month, levels begin to drop from the peak.

It's nice to see the m677 is still kicking strong. I feel it working as usual, great workouts + recuperation + enhanced exercise tolerance, no lethargy or anxiety whatsoever, fantastic mood, love the stuff. If you get tired or lethargy when using mk677, maybe suggest switching to real hgh injections instead? or just don't use anything. Studies show a 20% increase in strength in older adults, have noticed 30% increase over time, as a good responder.

1) Mk677 bloating is minimized as I stay on a ketogenic diet year round except for extra carbs on workout days,

2) Mk677 minor insulin desensitivity (this happens with hgh as well) is counteracted by using 300mg of +R ALA before meals.

3) MK677 does not burn fat like hgh but it has increased nitrogen retention in place of this drawback. To help lose fat fast while on mk677, use keto diet + intermittent fasting (eat only 8 hours during day), cardio + CLA + betaine (TMG): read the studies at ergo-log on cla + betaine super stack.

4) Liver values bloodwork was performed last year after 7 months on it, and they were completely normal.

5) Mk677 hunger pains die down after about 4 weeks on the cycle.

6) Got powder directly from China (comes out to $25 a gram) and use a really good 1mg electronic scale (example: AWS gpr-20 20g x 0.001g). There is usually a min order of $200 and shipping is around $20. Powder should have a really nasty lingering taste and not just a weak acidic taste that dies out early. It is hard to synthesize, so insist on good quality.
------------------------------------------------


mk graph.2.jpg
mk677 2018 lab 1.jpg
mk677 2018 lab 2.jpg
mk677 lab march 2019.jpg
 
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tregar

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For those concerned about insulin sensitivity:

n 2018, I took 25mg in the morning from March till November (8 months), though now I only take it 7 months straight, then take a 5 month break off.

My levels after 4 months on it this year measure 327 ng/ml, up from my baseline of 227, so a 100 point increase, I read at the high end for an 18 year old on my GH and igf-1 levels while on it, and I am age 49 bodybuilder, so more than happy.

30% greater strength gains over time, good nootropic energy during day, sleep great at night, keeps joins lubricated, and enhanced exercise tolerance in the gym and on treadmill. No lethargy at all here during the day, unlike many I have read about. A few pages about the mk677 in the book "grow young with hgh" by Klatz too.

7 months in while taking it, I had labs done, mk677 had NO detrimental effects on my insulin, glucose, A1c, etc.

Labs from Sept 26, 2018:

Insulin 8.2 uU/ml , normal, low =2.6, high = 24.9
Glucose: 89.0 mg/dl, normal, low = 70, high = 99
HbA1c: 5.1%, normal, low = 4.0, high = 5.6

I recommend you take 300mg of +R-ALA (Dr. Danielle Alpha Lipoic Acid, RALA, Extremely High Quality Alpha R Lipoic Acid (R-ALA)R- ALA 120 Capsules) before every meal x 3 times a day to help counteract and even improve insulin sensitivity while on either HGH or mk677, as yes, both will lower insulin sensitivity a bit, but this can be improved considerably with +R alpha lipoic acid, p.s. I get no hearburn from the above formula, best I have tried, and I have tried 3 different brands.

You can also take berberine along with +R-ALA, as berberine in studies has proven just as effective as metformin, +R-ALA in studies has proven even more effective then metformin.

I was not taking +R-ALA during the months the lab was taken above, but have since added it this year during my 7 month of the year mk677 25mg a day cycle.

Liver values also normal after 7 months of use:

ALT 26.0 u/L, normal, low =7, high =56.0
AST 21.0 u/L normal, low = 5, high = 35

MK677 is also not expensive, try xian Lyphar biotech in China, around twenty bucks a gram, don't pay the ridiculous prices charged for it here in the USA, as they are but the middleman who get it from China anyways.
--------------------------------

thoughts on anabolics:

As far as anabolics on a 12 week cycle once to twice a year, I prefer high dose 500 to 800mg primobolan (basically side effect free) along with my normal 175mg a week test cyp dosage, and around 4 weeks of 20mg a day dianabol. It does not raise my blood pressure, no bad blood lipid results, does not mess with my sleep, feel great on it, and since I keep my test dose low and primo high, it does not mess with my hairline, whereas it will mess with your hairline if you keep your test high and the primo high (I have tried it both ways). Primobolan at high dose it like a side effect free trenbolone. It gives slow steady gains with no water retention. Like Masteron but better. Full, round, hard, veiny. It was Arnold's favorite along with d-ball, and I agree, those two are my favorites too.

I do not respond well to trenbolone, as the one side effect it gives me annoys me bad: I get terrible sleep on it, as it wakes me once a night early, or causes me to wake up too early, it has stimulation wich messes with my sleep, otherwise it would be fine. And this is even at 150mg a week (20mg a day everyday injection using an insulin syringe). Perhaps 10mg a day would be different, but I believe any amount in my system can be a problem with the sleep disturbance side effect.

I do not like deca durabolin only because of the possibiliy of deca dick and libido problems in some, not all, see the reason it causes deca dick in the on-line article at muscular development, it messes with nitric acid badly, and studies show it also can be damaging to blood vessels. If it weren't for those 2 problems, it would be awesome.

I do like d-ball at 20mg a day for 4 weeks. Anavar however causes me to be wired and thus messes with my sleep, just like trenbolone. This wired feeling happens with some other people as well, but not all.
 
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Thanks superload.

Mike Arnold had said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Landmonster View Post
Hi guys.

So I was reading a recent article by Christian Thibideaux. Surprisingly, is against the use of Mk-677. Here is his quote, verbatim.

"What About MK-667?

While it's not a SARM – it's an orally effective peptide – it's often put in the same boat because it's sold at the same places and is taken orally (most other peptides are taken by injection).

MK is by far one of the worst products you can take, at least in "normal" doses. It works mostly by increasing growth hormone production, but it increases it for too long, giving you tons of pulses over a 20-24 hour period.
This is a good thing...and the main reason it works so well. The more pulses we get, the more GH that is released. This is not harmful. If he is referring to GH "bleed", well, that concern has been invaliadated long ago. For the record, injectable GH causes causes a much greater degree of GH "bleed" than MK-677, as a single injection is continuously released into the bloodstream over an 8-10 hour period...and twice daily injections maintain GH "bleed" almost 24 hours per day. Bodybuilders have been doing this for years with great results and minimal side effects 9assuming does remain reasinable).

As such, it decreases insulin sensitivity
All GH peptides/secretagogies, as well as exogneous GH itself, decrease insulin senstivity. This has been common knowledge for years. High-dose exog. GH is WAY more injurious in this regard, while MK-677 only moderately decreases insulin senstivity. For those who are worried about it, the simple use of berberine or metformin can completely offset any decrease in senstivity that may occur. In other words, it is completely avoidable.

Regardless, most bodybuilders already have excelent insulin sensitivity due to weight training, cardio, clean eating, and having low bodyfat levels. The only bodybuilders who really need to be concerned with this are those who abuse exo. GH and/or high-dose insulin.



really quickly and it will also bloat the f**k out of you. You'll gain 10 pounds of water overnight and look like a water buffalo.
This is a side effect of elevated GH levels, regardless of whether one is using MK-677 or exo. GH.

Most bodybuilders want to use GH because of the benefits it provides, so if Christian thinks MK shouldn't be used, then I expect him to take the same stance on exo. GH. Cearly, many disagree with him.

For those who don't want any water retention, don't use MK or exo. GH, but this is a personal choice. Furthermore, and of great relevance to this discussion is that nearly all of the water retention associated with MK-677 dissipates after about 4-6 week of use, so it is a relatovely short-term side effect.


It'll make your blood pressure skyrocket too
Not necessarily. MY BP doesn't go up more than a few points..and after 4-6 weeks of use, it goes back down to normal. One thing I don't like is that Christian is speaking in absolutes--never a wise choice when dealing with personal response to drugs. Even if one's BP does go up moderately, it will still go back down after the water starts to fall off at the 4-6 week point.

The fact of the matter is that many drugs can potentially increase BP, so once again, I expect Christian to take the same stance against steroids and exo. GH, as both of these categories of drugs can potentially elevate BP much more than MK-677.

, and it can inhibit your natural growth hormone production because of its super long action."

Now this is really ignorant...and shows that he doesn't even understand MK-677's basic mechanism of action. MK-677 does the exact opposite of decrease natural production. All GH peptides/secretagogies specifically INCREASE natural production. It is the primary mechanism through which it works! We're not dealing with exogenous GH here. Were dealing with a GH "secretagogue"! Once the bodybuilder goes off of MK-677, production simply goes back down to what it was prior to using the substance. There is absolutely ZERO suppression of endogneous GH production.

Do you agree with this?
No.

I thought this was still one of the most popular hGH peptide tools on the market.
Yes, it is...because it is both highly effective and safe (i.e. no serious side effects).

link: https://www.t-nation.com/pharma/tip-...th-about-sarms
I like Chirstian, but his statements on MK-677 are riddled with both inaccuracy and personal opinion.
 
ValiantThor08

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Is there benefit for someone around 30 to use MK 677? Or is it really beneficial once you are older.
 
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Have performed over 8 lab test while on my 7 month cycle of 25mg of mk677 in the morning last year, then took 5 months off, then got back on again last month for another 7 months on it. Absolutely love the stuff, I am 49 year old bodybuilder, but my igf-1 and gh read at the high end for an 18 year old while I am on it (up from my baseline of 227 ng/ml to 327 ng/ml measured even at 6 months in while on it.

It raised my igf-1 to 372 for the 1st 2 weeks every cycle, but then the body kicks in a regulatory feedback system to keep it from getting any higher than a very young adult (ie an 18 year old). My levels bounce back exactly to 227 while I am off the stuff. I spent over $600 doing all these lab tests but my health card paid for it, so no money out of pocket. Great workout recuperation while on it, and better exercise tolerance, about a 30% increase in strength over time. Feels almost like a nootropic to me, as I have great energy during day on it, feel amazing, great mood, and sleep is great as well.

I have tried pharm grade HGH but it causes my bloodpressure to rise too much, one of the rare few who cannot take it, so I use mk677 instead.

I am a big fan of primobolan too (500mg a week) on my two 12 week cycles per year, use with my normal 175mg of test cyp trt, it is phenomenal with basically no side effects, at this age can't tolerate the side effects of stuff like tren, etc. Primo is like a low dose tren with no sides.

Love 12 weeks of primo and about 3 weeks of dianabol, combo with no sides for this person. Slow, steady, great gains. With primo, nice full, hard, veiny muscles, no water retention. waterpark is fun to hang out at as get compliments. My test reading at 175mg per week test cyp is 863 ng/dl on testosterone (measured 3 days after shot) and 28 pg on e2 (estradiol), 50mg injection every other day (even days), with 0.5mg arimidex at every shot. just had measured 3 days ago, this level of arimidex keeps my e2 at a perfect level.

p.s. 1500mg of arachidonic acid goes well with the mk677 for awesome pumps (similar to a 20mg anavar pump) and studys show 3.25 lean mass increase vs 0.2 lb in placebo for 8 weeks, only take 4 caps pre-workout days only, the soreness amplified x nearly 10, and pumps are unreal, highly recommend, check out the reviews at amazon, agree with the reviews. Several pages about it in the 2006 anabolics guide as it was discovered and patented by Llewellyn.
 
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tregar

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Instead of reading the t-nation article, people should be reading the well-written
article at mind and muscle, it's the 1st ever article I ever read on mk677, it truly
is a miracle of modern science imho.

The Beauty Of Modern Science: Ibutamoren (MK-677)

hxxps://mindandmuscle.net/articles/beauty-modern-science-ibutamoren-mk-677/
 

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This is exactly why I avoid T Nation articles. Most of them are just written to sell their products anyways.
 
tregar

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Very true _endure_

more details:

p.s. The RENPHO is a twenty nine dollar electronic scale you can buy that measures very accurate weight, bodyfat, muscle mass, and 5 other body readings, it sends the data to your phone via bluetooth, very good scale for reading your body fat and muscle mass, has over 7,000 reviews.

I use a modified keto diet with higher protein (1.2 gram per lb of lean body weight). It is also "targetted keto diet" or TKD in that 35 grams of carbs (1/2 cup oatmeal with 1/4 cup milk) are used 1.5 hour preworkout to fuel best performance in the gym, carbs are expended during workout and restore glylcogen to muscles, then keto resumes once again a couple hours post workout. Studies have shown you can get just as strong on keto diet in the gym as someone who is on a normal carb rich diet. And I don't look flat, I still look round and full. The carbs help replenish muscle glycogen. Fats are used as a "leverage" and will adjust up or down, but I keep fats mid to high.

Favorite fats: 1 guacamole a day, 5 fish oil tablets (break up in mouth to make sure they absorb), 5g CLA tablets, olive oil, fatty meats every other day (steak, hamburger), alternate days are chicken breast or fish. Breakfast is 5 eggs with some fatty meat. I like to hit the golden corral buffet down the street for $9 all you can eat on workout days and consume salad, keto meats like sirloin tips/steak/hamburger, squash, brocolli, also like the panda bear terriakki chicken with super greens on some days, or 2 chicken breast from whataburger for $4 on some days for variety. Unlike most, I hate to cook, except for breakfast.

50g of met-rx is my favorite protein shake used daily. Many days I only eat 8 hours of the day (breakfast, lunch, and protein shake at 3pm) then I don't eat for the rest of the day/night (intermittent fasting 16 hours no eat/8 hours to eat). Studies at ergo-log on intermittent fasting show rapid fat weight loss with no loss of muscle, even gains in strength in the gym equal to non-intermittent fasting types. This is true.

As mentioned earlier, 5g of CLA fats per day along with 2.5 gram betaine has been proven at studies at ergo-log to result in lots of lean muscle gain and major fat loss compared to placebo. See also the studies at ergo-log on cla + betaine super stack, and the other 5 studies. Fish oil good for muscle growth too, see studies.

Enhanced athlete brand arachidonic acid is the one with all the reviews at amazon, and the one I like.
Have only been using arachidonic a few weeks, unlike most who take in cycle of 50 days on/50 days off, I take 4 caps before every workout, so that I can take it year round without having to cycle it. Some have mentioned the pumps are so painful, they have to decrease down to 3 caps in the reviews, I can relate to that. Llewellyn mentioned in 2006 anabolics guide (hardcover) that many in the study gained 8.25 lbs of lean muscle in 3 months on arachidonic acid, but most studies show a 3.25lb lean muscle gain compared to placebo in 2 months time.

I only feel bad in that some people get lethargy when they take mk677 (I don't get any whatsoever). I wish I knew why that happens. But there is always HGH or peptides for those who get lethargy from it.

By the way the 828 ng/dl reading on testosterone was measured 3 days after my 50mg test cyp shot, so it is way higher than this on the 1st and 2nd days, and I take 50mg shot every other day along with the 0.5mg arimidex (extreme peptides brand is super cheap and very effective, in case you are looking for good liquid).

I love every other day shots, to figure how to do it, take your for example 175mg test cyp shot for the week and divide by 7 = 25mg per day. So then multiply 25mg x 2 = 50mg shot you will then take every other day...

...and with arimidex, typical rule (works great for me) is to use 1mg arimidex per each 100mg of test cyp per week. For example: 200mg of test cyp per week = 2mg of arimidex a week = 2mg/7 days = .285mg per day. Then take .285mg x 2 = 0.57mg every other day to take at same time as test cyp shot. A level of between 22 and 30 is great for E2 (estradiol).

I use the standard on-line $49 E2 estradiol test (not the sensitive one) as it is cheap and gives accurate reading. The testosterone test is around $59, so a little over $100 for both tests. I live right down from a lab corp that draws blood, so I do testing often (like with mk677 and test/e2, etc.).

I will continue to track my mk677 results and baseline each year, as have done for 2018, 2019, and will report back in the future with 2020 results, etc. Only costs around $69 for on-line igf-1 test. Several pages on mk677 in the book "grow young with hgh" (great book). It was orginally discovered by Merck labs in the 90's.

p.s. as mentioned earlier, my A1C, glucose, and insulin were all completely normal when I measured them with a blood test taken 7 months into my mk677 use last year. It had NO detrimental effects on my insulin (see my 1st post above). However, this year I incorporated 300mg of +R-ALA (dr. danielle is great brand) at 1 cap before every meal, as it has been proven in studies to be even more effective them metformin, and berberine has been proven to be just as effective as metformin. So combining the two is a win-win.

p.s. trenbolone even at 140mg a week (20mg tren ace daily with insulin syringe) would cause me to wake up in middle of night, or to wake up early, this one single and only side effect really bothered me, so I gave up on tren. However, primobolan is the champagne of steroids imho. It is the one steroid that you can take that makes you look like you are on steroids, but don't feel like you are on steroids, it is basically side effect free, amazing stuff, one of Arnold's fav along with d-ball, I agree completely. It has an anabolic ratio of 80 to 88, so using 500mg of the stuff is equal to around 400mg of test, but no water retention, high blood pressure, or bad lipids like high test can cause. It's androgenic ratio is only 40 to 44. So using 500mg of primo with 200mg of test cyp is close to around nearly the gains of 600mg of test imho, and we all know what 600mg of test can do in a 12 week study published on-line. But with primo, it is all muscle, and no water retention, and you keep around 80% of the gains.
 
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tregar

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p.s. If you do order Dr. Danielle's +R-ALA, they send you a coupon for a free 120 cap bottle with your first order, good deal. I just recently went up on my test dosage to 200mg a week (60mg test cyp every other day with 0.6mg of arimidex at each shot). I will retest my levels again in a couple months. I give blood every 3 to 4 months, this is important to do.

Forgot to mention, that when I do cook lunch at home, it is usually a flank steak with spinach. I keep around 8 boxes of frozen spinach and two twenty five dollar packs of flank steak from costco in freezer at all times.

Sugar-free jello makes a great snack at night when I am fasting. You can still fast the 16 hours yet consume around 3 egg whites during this fasting time, if the long time without protein bothers you, the egg whites have very little effect on the fast, and great for muscle nitrogen.

MK677 has been shown in studies to have great nitrogen retention, so even while you are fasting, the body is retaining good nitrogen levels for your muscles. If you do cardio at night during your fast, be sure to take around 5 to 10g of bcaa's and 3g of HMB before you hop on the treadmill to burn fat, this will ensure your muscle will all stay intact (see study at ergo-log on cardio and bcaa use to preserve muscle). bcaa's should also be taken before your workout, studies show it is extremely anti-catabolic and will keep your muscle from being broken down, study at ergo-log.

Peace out! It has been fun. Will return end of 2019 to post 2nd year of baseline igf-1 levels (will test baseline igf-1 after being OFF mk677 for at least 2 months). I come off the mk677 in Sept after 7 months on, so will test baseline again around late November.
 
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Quote:
Palumbo likes to use keto for cutting. Typically, I believe, he likes 1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight and 0.5 grams of fat per pound of body weight. Off-season he adds carbs too.

It just so happens that Palumbo's ratio of protein to fats is very close to what I use daily, it works for adding muscle in the weight room while losing fat at the same time for me.

Add in spinach, broccoli, cauliflower, love an avacado a day, 1 tablespoon flax seed oil daily, 5 fish oil caps, 5 CLA caps, 2.5g betaine, use 6g to 8g of HMB daily, bcaa's, mk677, TRT. Make continued progress in weight-room with this formula, and I lift heavy for 4 to 6 weeks before taking a break and going down in weight a bit for 2 weeks, then back to heavy. Long periods of stretching are very important. It's fun going to waterpark (get a pass every summer) and getting compliments.

Also use daily intermittent fasting (eat 8 hours of the day, no eat for other 16 hours), and use treadmill at home x 3 times a week during fast, but add in 5g of bcaa and 3g of HMB before hopping on treadmill to keep muscle from being broken down while doing cardio. (ergo-log study shows this preserves all your muscle tissue).

Ergo-log website should be your best friend, it has all the proven studies on intermittent fasting for bodybuilders, the muscle and fat burning power of CLA + betaine, fish oil for muscle, HMB, bcaa's, arachidonic acid lean muscle increases, you name it, it is there, I have spent days studying there.

Eat big keto breakfast, big keto lunch, and 50g met-rx protein shake at 3pm, then fast after that through dinner and sleep. I add 1/2 cup of oatmeal with milk around 1.5 hour before working out (targetted TKD keto diet) in order to reach best performance in the gym however, as carbs fuel workout and replenish muscle glycogen (keeps water in muscles for full look too). Around every 2 weeks I have a cheat meal of urban bricks pizza loaded to max with 4 different meats, helps keep thyroid functioning well, and breaks the boredom, and loads water into muscles.

1) this is the scale used to measure out 25mg of mk677 powder in the morning.

2) as most arimidex research liquids come with un-marked pipette, best to order a "measured 1ml pipette" off ebay, and use that to accurately measure out 0.5ml arimidex.

3) Sept 2018 labs (measured during 7month of taking mk677 daily) reveal labs to be completely normal for insulin sensitivity, and this was without taking +R-ALA or berberine. I have since added those two supplements this year however (one before every meal).

4) Latest testosterone labs (811 ng/dl) measured 3 days after taking shot. 50mg shot of test cyp TRT is taken every other day (EOD) along with 0.5mg of arimidex, this amount of arimidex keeps my E2 at a perfect level of 26 pg/ml. (between 22 and 30 is a good level).
mk677 insulin lab.jpg
mk677 testosterone and e2 lab.jpg
 
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Brienn8989

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The amount of time and money you have invested in this is amazing. I’ve been following your posts for a while, thank you for shedding light on this topic through science not just hearsay.
 

user567

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My liver values are always fine on Mk677. No water bloat either.
 
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Gluconeogenesis and Ketogenic diets

Often asked question:
"This person from my gym had a very similar opinion such as yourself towards ketogenic diet. Here is the info behind what he said…curious as to ur opinion:

I asked a very knowledgeable nutritionist and bodybuilder I know (not some retard im talking experienced and with a PRO-CARD worthy physique and prepared many for contests with success) and he said about ketogenic diet the problem is when protein is over 20 % on ketogenic diet ur body performs process of glucogenesis.
Ur opinion on this? does this ruin the precepts of the diet, or is the glucogenesis ok?"

Answer:
It doesn’t ruin it. your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis… about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 100g/day. If you aren’t eating any carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis.
The key thing that stands out is that knowing that Protein is 58% anti-ketogenic meaning glucose is produced from 58% of protein you are getting more glucose to the muscles from protein instead of 100% from carbs. That is why bodybuilders do pretty well with muscle growth with a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet.

You don't get a 100% surge of glucose from carbs but enough from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.

Also protein is more thermogenic than fats and carbs also. Burns more energy.
It's a very attractive diet for body builders.

Keto is more attractive to people who are primarily focused on losing fat and weight in general and not so much bodybuilding.
 
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------------------------ MK677 or peptides? -----------------------
With the research I have conductued, found that either one will raise your igf-1 around 150 points for the first 2 to 3 weeks, then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the peak rise to around 100 points max.
Those that cannot tolerate the easy to take once a day mk677 in the am due to lethargy can look into taking peptides instead, take nothing at all, or look into taking HGH injections.

In my experience, the first 3 days you ever take mk677, you should start with only 15mg, then work your way up to 25mg over the next 3 days. I notice an almost euphoric like state the 1st two weeks I am on it, as more feel-good neurotransmitters are being released from the brain (see article "mk677 and the beauty of modern science" article at mind and muscle to see why this happens.

This is the period when my igf-1 levels read almost 150 points higher than normal (equivalent to 4iu of pharm grade GH from China). But then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the levels at +100 points igf-1 above your normal reading, around the high level for an 18 year old.

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase
MK677:
---------
Self:
227 igf-1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points for 1st two weeks
Self:
227 igf-1---->327 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 100 points after the 1st couple weeks
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****
*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"
**Notice the similar point jumps between peptides and mk677, either one seems to reach a max of around 100 igf-1 points.

------------------- +R-ALA (alpha lipoic acid) -------------------------
1) the R+ALA (alpha lipoic acid) entainomer caused a 34% increase in glucose uptake by skeletal muscle cells in response to insulin while those fed the S- entainomer had no improvement in blood glucose disposal (ref a).
(ref a) Streeper RS, Henriksen EJ, Jacob S, Hokama JY, Fogt DL, Tritschler HJ. Differential effects of lipoic acid stereoisomers on glucose metabolism in insulin-resistant skeletal muscle. Am J Physiol. 1997 Jul;273(1 Pt 1):E185-91.

hxxp://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/50/6/1464

In conclusion, our data suggest that α-lipoic acid stimulates glucose uptake by translocating and regulating the intrinsic activity of GLUT4 (Fig. 8). The latter effect may be mediated by stimulating the p38 MAPK or a closely related SB202190- and SB203580-sensitive target. Collectively, these results further support a role of α-lipoic acid as an antidiabetic agent in the treatment of diabetes (1).

The observed stimulation of glucose uptake by the various antidiabetic agents (sulfonylureas, the biguanide metformin, and an emerging number of thiazolidinediones) was much less prominent than the effect of α-lipoic acid. This potent antioxidant was also able to improve insulin-stimulated glucose transport in different animal models of type 1 and 2 diabetes (ref b).

This data reveals that +R-ALA is more effective then metformin.

(ref b) The Antihyperglycemic Drug α-Lipoic Acid Stimulates Glucose Uptake via Both GLUT4 Translocation and GLUT4 Activation, Daniel Konrad1,2, Romel Somwar1,3, Gary Sweeney1,Karen Yaworsky1, Michiko Hayashi1, Toolsie Ramlal1 and Amira Klip1,3, Diabetes 2001 Jun; 50(6): 1464-1471

This is where ALA comes into play: in order for glucose to be carried into cells, it must be attached to insulin. ALA is shown to have an insulin mimicking effect. So then more glucose would be shuttled to fat cells because the muscle cells are full, right? Wrong!

Studies show that ALA increases Glut-4 transporters on the outside of muscle cells. This means more glucose can be shuttled into muscle cells and away from fat cells. Studies show that the amount of glucose shuttled to your muscles can increase from 50-60%.

For those who are not that good in math: This means if you ate 100 carbs and originally without ALA, 40 grams of glucose went to your muscles cells and the rest, 60 grams, went to fat cells. Now, by supplementing with ALA, you have the power to send 60 grams of glucose and only 40 to fat cells. That is a big difference! How you ask.
Insulin Effect

ALA has an insulin like effect. It does not take the place of insulin, only mimics it. (To learn about insulin and its effects you can read my Insulin article). ALA has been shown to increase glucose uptake by mimicking insulin and shuttling it to Glut-4 receptors as mentioned above. Because ALA has increased the number of Glut-4 receptors on the outside of the muscle, more glucose can be absorbed.

Effects of Increased Glucose Uptake

This increase of glucose does many positive things. These include:
Increased pump
Less fat accumulation
Increases Amino Acid transport
Increases creatine
Increased insulin sensitivity
Increased Pump
The increased pump is due to the increase in glucose uptake. Not only does this feel great, but it also contributes to muscle growth. By increasing the muscle cells volume, but nutrients are able to be shuttled to the muscle. Hence increased muscle growth.

Less Fat Accumulation

Again, due to the increase in glucose uptake by muscles cells, less glucose is stored as fat. ALA also lowers one's blood sugar levels, creating a more suitable atmosphere for fat burning.

Increased Amino Acid and Creatine Uptake
This comes back to the increased pump. Because the
muscle cells are in an enlarged state, more amino acids and creatine can reach them. Insulin increases amino acid and creatine uptake. Remember, ALA mimics insulin, which means it also increases amino acid and creatine uptake. There are a ton of creatine products on the market that are loaded with sugar. This is because sugar causes an insulin spike, which carries the creatine to muscle cells. The problem with this is an excess amount of sugar with cause you to gain fat.

By supplementing with ALA you can carry more creatine to muscle cells without swallowing 75+ grams of sugar. I still recommend taking a simple sugary carb after your workout, but ALA can increase creatine uptake while you take a lower amount of sugar. This is very important for those who are cutting. They can get the same effects post workout without having to worry about storing excess carbs as fat.

Increased Insulin Sensitivity

This is great news for bodybuilders! When I go on a bulking cycle. I find that about after two months, my gains slow drastically. One way to combat this is to go on a brief cutting cycle to and your insulin sensitivity rebuild. Supplementing with ALA could allow you to add more mass as a result of your insulin sensitivity not reducing.
Results During Cutting vs. Bulking

Results will differ depends on your diet. If you are bulking, you can expect to less fat and more muscle gain because of ALA nutrient partitioning effect.

Results from cutting are increased fat loss and a muscle sparing effect. Because your muscles are storing more glucose, your muscles will not become as depleted as they usually do when cutting. This helps you look full and not flat.

2) additional benefit in taking +R-ALA: Weight loss faster with alpha-lipoic acid, in the group that took 1800mg alpha-lipoic acid per day the effect was statistically significant.

hxxp://www.ergo-log.com/weight-loss-faster-with-alpha-lipoic-acid.html
 
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------------------------modified keto diet for bodybuilders ie Palumbo keto diet------------

Dave Palumbo is the Godfather of the modern modified keto diet for bodybuilders

It is the same modified keto diet that I use year-round, with a cheat meal once every 2 weeks, but I also add in 1/2 cup of oatmeal with a bit of milk to take around 1.5 hr before working out to help fuel my workouts for performance since I lift heavy. (This is then a TKD or targetted ketogenic diet).

Bloating is minimized or non-existant when taking mk677 when using this diet I have observed.

Professional bodybuilder and fitness specialist Dave Palumbo formulated the Palumbo Keto Diet to to preserve ketosis and promote rapid fat loss.

The Palumbo Keto diet requires eating between 1 and 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight (for men and women) per day, about 0.5 g of fat per pound, and very low carbohydrates -- no direct sources.
Gluconeogenesis and Ketogenic diets:

Gluconeogenes is ok. It doesn’t ruin the diet. Your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis… about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 100g/day. If you aren’t eating any carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis.

The key thing that stands out is that knowing that Protein is 58% anti-ketogenic meaning glucose is produced from 58% of protein you are getting more glucose to the muscles from protein instead of 100% from carbs. That is why bodybuilders do pretty well with muscle growth with a high protein moderate fat and low carb diet.
You don't get a 100% surge of glucose from carbs but enough from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.
Also protein is more thermogenic than fats and carbs also. Burns more energy.

It's a very attractive diet for body builders.

Keto is more attractive to people who are primarily focused on losing fat and weight in general and not so much bodybuilding.

Incorporate intermittent-fasting into the diet (eat only 8 hours a day, fast other 16 hours) along with cardio during fasting period (take 5g bcaa + 3g HMB to preserve muscle during cardio) and watch the results speak for themselves.
 
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someone asked:
"In one of your previous posts you mentioned R-ALA has been shown to be more effective than metformin to improve insulin sensitivity. Do you know at what dosage? And how quickly, in your experience, do you think you can see glucose levels go down once you start the R-ALA?"

300mg of +R-ALA is plenty x 3 times a day before a meal, immediate results. Study in post above outlines how the scientist found it was even more effectivfe then metformin, and ergo-log study shows it has additional effects at this dosage for weight loss. Thanks for Palumbo information and knowledge, much appreciated! Who would have thought I was using the same diet he was advocating for bodybuilders all these years.

Remember, if you get lethargy from mk677 (some do, I don't) all hope is not lost. See post above for alternatives like peptides (also give +100 point increase in igf-1).

Years ago, I read all of datbtrue's papers on peptides, he was the orginator, propts to datbtrue. He is sorely missed. If you have not yet read the book "Grow young with HGH", get a copy, couple pages on mk677 in the book, how it was discovered, how higher HGH and igf-1 levels can benefit you.

Somatostatin is the enemy as we get older, it begins to program us for death, but MK677, peptides and HGH can put the breaks on somatostain, allowing the brain to release more of the stored up growth hormone it has (and it has lots stored up!) It always has the ability to do this as we age, just has to receive the message to do it again like when we were younger.
 
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Final last word: I will be back end of this year to post baseline igf-1 after being off mk677 for another 7 months (7 month mk677 cycle ends in sept), so will post baseline igf-1 in November. My mk677 cycles run from March thru Sept every year. I will probably take another mk677 reading around August as well (after being on 6 months).

Don't forget to add 1500mg of arachidonic acid before every workout, this way you don't have to cycle it, today after my chest/tri/shoulders workout (using 4 caps arachidonic acid preworkout) it felt like my traps and shoulders were about to explode end of workout, mind blowing pumps and soreness. Studies show a 3.25 lean muscle increase in 2 months compared to 0.2 lb lean muscle gain in placebo.

Mk677 already gives you a slight pump, add arachidonic acid to the mix and watch out. I rate it just as highly as mk677 in your arsenal. Of course, take your 3g HMB and 5g bcaa preworkout as well to prevent muscle breakdown in the gym.

Metamucil fiber is also very important x twice a day when on a modified palumbo ketogenic diet.

Favorite supplements:

MK677 25mg in am x 7months of the year
arachidonic acid
HMB x 6 to 8g a day
bcaa's x 15g a day
MET-rx pure protein plus 2lb container x 1 50g protein a day
CLA 5g a day
betaine (TMG) 2.5g a day
fish oil x 5 caps a day
flax seed oil x 1 tablespoon a day
choline bitartrate (600mg) take with mk677 in am, enhances pulses
L-arginine and L-ornithine preworkout as well to enhance GH output
creatine x 5g a day

Don't feel bad taking supplements, the current Mr. Olympia takes a whole jar full of supplements before every meal, read this in his interview.
 
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Gains of 3.25 lbs lean mass in 2 months on arachidonic acid vs 0.2 lb in placebo:


The pump is noticed from day 1, I only use it pre-workout on the days I workout, not every day, this way I don't have to cycle it, stays active in body for longer periods after this anyways.

I would never exceed 4 caps, and for most 3 caps will do.

I tried 5 caps just to see what would happen, and it did result in a headache post workout...and I never get headaches, so will only keep at 3 to 4 caps pre-workout from now on. I also did not take any fish oil or flax seed oil that morning (purposely left it out) so there obviously was an imbalance that morning of arachidoinc acid to omega 3's. I will take fish oil and flax seed oil next time, as I do normally.

Be careful. The pumps are insane, and soreness that is long-lasting, love the stuff, but be careful on the dosage or you can get a headache in my experience too, it may not be for some at any dose.

Since I use 5 caps fish oil daily, plus flax seed oil, and CLA which convers to dha and epa in the body, I'm not too concerned about the inflamation. Just remember if you are going to take arachidonic acid supplements you should have a healthy ratio of omega-6 to omega-3:

arachidonic acid-the good and the bad:

hxxp://www.kcbd.com/story/1467213/arachidonic-acid-the-good-and-bad/
 
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Gotta love ergo-log website:

Recently started taking several caps of turmeric (along with normal +R-ALA 300mg) post-workout to enhance glucose and amino acids from post workout met-rx shake uptake by muscles.

Turmeric boosts glucose uptake in muscle cells:

https://www.ergo-log.com/turmericglucose.html

Diabetes-2 has become a widespread disease in Korea as well, so Korean pharmacologists are looking for substances that help cells to absorb more glucose. Researchers at the Gyeongsang National University have discovered in experiments with mouse muscle cells that curcumin enhances the effect of insulin.

If you expose a muscle cell to insulin and curcumin, then the GLUT4 activity increases by more, as is shown in the figure below:
curcumingluc3.gif

And as we already know, +R-ALA also greatly increases GLUT4 activity as well.
 
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Impressed by the claims in 2006 Anabolics ref guide by Llewellyn of up to 8 lbs gain in some users w/arachidonic acid over 3 months, good 3 page reading in that book. Always notice a very full dense pumped look to muscles all of same workout day and same for next day.

Few favorite studies that really work:

Bodybuilders progress faster with 5 grams CLA daily:
https://www.ergo-log.com/clabodybuilders.html
clabodycomp.gif


Big fan of 5 grams CLA per day as well, 2 before every meal.

Health benefits of CLA:
https://www.mercola.com/beef/cla.htm

Just lost another 1% bodyfat over a couple weeks (220lb, down from 15% to 14%) while going up in strength on all exercises in gym, mk677 is good stuff...on a reduced calorie diet every day of 1800, 600 cal at each of 3 meals with intermittent fasting (eat only 8 hours of the day) with cardio during fast x 3 days a week. The RENPHO thirty dollar electronic body fat scale is the bomb, very accurate muscle mass and body fat measurements, bodyfat even down to half percentages.

Study shows you can keep all your lean muscle and burn lots of fat with intermittent fasting and cardio combined for bodybuilders:

Rapid weight loss without losing muscle: combine intermittent fasting and cardio:
https://www.ergo-log.com/rapid-weigh...nd-cardio.html
Just remember to take 5g bcaa's and or 3g HMB before doing cardio to preserve all your muscle, same pre-workout, works well.
alternatedayfastingexerciseweightloss.gif
 
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Forgot to mention, I take 5g CLA divided with 3 meals + 1.25g betaine x twice a day for best results:

hxxps://www.nutritionexpress.com/showarticle.aspx?articleid=2426
Betain_article_graph.jpg


Ergo log study shows CLA + betaine superstack very effective:
clabetaine.gif

Prepare all my supplements the day before work days by combining the powders (1.25 g betaine + 3g HMB + 5g bcaa's) into small hobby lobby ziplock jewelry baggies (100 baggies for two dollar), then taking one of these 1st thing in am with water, another with my lunch, and last one mixed into met-rx protein plus shaker bottle drink at 2:30pm. I add ice and cup of water at work to shaker bottle which already has the met-rx dry powder in it. Take the CLA, fish oil and +R-ALA/berberine capsules with me in a seperate baggie as they are not powders but capsules. 25mg MK677 first thing in am with coffee.
 
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Typical reduced calorie (1800-1900) Palumbo keto diet (high protein, moderate fats, very low carb).

The Palumbo Keto diet requires eating between 1 and 1.5 g of protein per pound of bodyweight (for men and women) per day, about 0.5 g of fat per pound, and very low carbohydrates -- no direct sources.

upon awakening: 3g HMB + 5g bcaa + 1.25g betaine (tmg anhydrous) + 25mg mk677 with coffee
------------
Breakfast:

2g CLA + 300mg +R-ALA + berberine capsule + 1 tablespoon flax seed oil

5 eggs, keep 2 yolks, 1/2 sausage link, 1/2 cup oatmeal in 1/4 cup milk + water.

Oatmeal only used on workout days preworkout to fuel best performance in gym ie TKD (targetted keto diet)
------------
Lunch:

3g HMB + 5g bcaa + 1.25g betaine

2g CLA + 300mg +R-ALA + berberine capsule

2 chicken breast from Whataburger on a tray by itself for $4, 1 avacado (1 net gram of carb due to high fiber)

alternate lunch (on other days):

Flank steak with frozen spinach cooked & mixed with 2 tablespoons heavy whipping cream or sour cream
------------
mid-day:

2.5 scoops MET-rx protein plus powder in 1/4 cup milk + 2 tablespoons heavy whipping cream, rest water and ice + 1/4 cup almonds (great fiber & fats and low carb)
------------
The fast:

Fast after 3 pm all the way thru dinner and sleep (16 hour intermittent fast), do cardio during this fast at home on treadmill x 3 times a week. Take 5g bcaa + 3g HMB pre-cardio and pre-workout to prevent muscle breakdown.
------------
cheatmeal:

every 2 weeks: pizza with works or something similar, keeps thyroid going strong, breaks boredom, adds additional water into muscles, the "hydrate" from carbo-hydrate.
-------------
Gluconeogenes from protein is just fine. It doesn’t ruin the keto diet. Your body only has a finite capacity to produce glucose from gluconeogenesis...about 5g per hour max. That ends up being about 50 to 60g/day if you are eating only 8 hours of the day with fasting 16 hours. If you are eating limited non-starchy carbs this will still put you in ketogenesis. Palumbo has produced many a shredded muscular bodybuilder on this cutting, I use it year-round.

The amount of fat you keep in the diet can be used as a "leverage" to adjust the rate at which you burn your own bodyfat. Your own bodyfat can also be used as a source of fuel (calories) so you can gain muscle while you lose fat. MK677, CLA, arachidonic acid, betaine, HMB, bcaa's, +R-ALA, berberine...all help with the muscle building and fat loss. It can be done at the same, see the many studies at ergo-log.

Limited glucose from protein to fill glycogen stores, muscle growth, muscle recover and Amino Acids from protein with limited fat storage you would get from eating a lot more carbs.

The end.
 
CaliguyinFl

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Jumping into this convo. No real science from my perspective other than my own doc was jealous of all my levels and blood pressure stats at my labs last month. Been on mk and trt and rad140 for the months covered by my last blood labs. All good, feel great, and looking my best in long time. No negative things to say about mk. Maybe some weird dreams but oh well
 

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Quick question, slightly off topic. But do you see any evidence of a synergistic effect between mk and steroids? I’ve been reading about how those two go together so well but haven’t seen any sort of proof except people’s experiences. I’m running test/npp/dbol/gw right now and have been planning on saving mk for pct to help solidify the gains. Any reason to add it in now or just save it?
 
Smont

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Quick question, slightly off topic. But do you see any evidence of a synergistic effect between mk and steroids? I’ve been reading about how those two go together so well but haven’t seen any sort of proof except people’s experiences. I’m running test/npp/dbol/gw right now and have been planning on saving mk for pct to help solidify the gains. Any reason to add it in now or just save it?
It's pretty much the same synergistic effects of growth hormone in steroids
 
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Thanks wolfjflywheel.

Yes Brien8989, there is a synergestic effect of HGH or mk677 even on TRT (test replacment therapy). When you look at muscle growth studies with HGH, you don't see a whole lot happening until you read the studies where it is combined with anabolics, then the pop of the muscles comes out, the fullness, and hardness, and increased muscle mass slowly over time (many months).

But even the mk677 studies on older adults showed an approximate 20% increase in strength without the addition of any anabolics, so this is interesting. Those that get lethargy with mk677 should look into HGH or peptides:

------------------------ MK677 or peptides? -----------------------
With the research I have conductued, found that either one will raise your igf-1 around 150 points for the first 2 to 3 weeks, then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the peak rise to around 100 points max.
Those that cannot tolerate the easy to take once a day mk677 in the am due to lethargy can look into taking peptides instead, take nothing at all, or look into taking HGH injections.

In my experience, the first 3 days you ever take mk677, you should start with only 15mg, then work your way up to 25mg over the next 3 days. I notice an almost euphoric like state the 1st two weeks I am on it, as more feel-good neurotransmitters are being released from the brain (see article "mk677 and the beauty of modern science" article at mind and muscle to see why this happens.

This is the period when my igf-1 levels read almost 150 points higher than normal (equivalent to 4iu of pharm grade GH from China). But then the body kicks in a feedback system to keep the levels at +100 points igf-1 above your normal reading, around the high level for an 18 year old.

Peptides:
-----------
Alpha6164's (medical doctor's best friend):
167 igf1---->272 igf1 (100mcg grf(1-29) + 100mcg ghrp2 x 3 times a day) = 105 point increase
MK677:
---------
Self:
227 igf-1---->372 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 145 points for 1st two weeks
Self:
227 igf-1---->327 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 100 points after the 1st couple weeks
Fitraver:
224 igf1---->359 igf1 (12.5mg mk677) = increase of 135 points*
MrSaturatedfat:
232 igf1---->312 igf1 (25mg mk677) = increase of 80 points**
thebigone:
150 igf1---->242 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 92 points***
machine5150:
141 igf1-----217 igf1 (20mg mk677) = increase of 76 points****
Sayitaintsoap:
unknown igf1---->376 igf1 (25mg mk677) = unknown increase*****
*See Fitraver post "bloods on 12.5mg mk677"
**See Mrsaturatedfat post "37 days on mk677"
***See thebigone post "Humatrope,MK677 and other GH labs for you guys"
****See machine5150 post "MK677 Before and After Blood Work w/ IGF Levels Raised 53.9%"
*****See sayitaintsoap post "THT's MK-677 review and blood work"
**Notice the similar point jumps between peptides and mk677, either one seems to reach a max of around 100 igf-1 points.

By the time the waterpark opens, I will be down to 12% body fat....this is where the adjustment of the fats in the diet downward will accelerate the body fat loss, combined with fasting and cardio during the fast x 3 times a week. When I was younger in my 20's I could eat anything and not have to worry about bodyfat going up, but as I became older (over 35), the rules no longer applied, and insulin sensitivity is decreased, the battle begun with keto palumbo diet, cardio, and fasting, and supplements to keep bodyfat down. Putting on and maintaining muscle not a problem when older, it's the fat loss that is the main battle.
 
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Rob94hawk

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So no BP or liver enzyme elevations? I can't afford any of this since I'm over 50.
I've been out of the loop & not up to date on this product but what would be a basic stack with this?
And over the counter? I'm sure not at my local GNC.
 
Smont

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It's a grey market are drug. Research chemical.
 
ValiantThor08

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You can get it prescribed now, if you know the right doc, or clinic.
 

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I really appreciate your input on MK677 and it's benefits tregar and it's always refreshing to see actual scientific data to support someones claims and dispel hearsay myths. I stopped using MK677 over 6 months ago but have just restarted as of today.
I also purchase from the same source you mentioned (usually 5gs at once) and dose at 20mg ED.
After taking my first dose this morning I didn't really notice any effects until midday. My symptoms are always that of low blood sugar (feeling shaky) and an increased appetite. I also feel warmer, energized, more focused as opposed to the lethargy some report. The low blood sugar symptoms are short lived (1-2 days) and thereafter I expect my ravenous hunger to return to normal. Having run repeat cycles of MK over 3 years I'm used to the effects and what to expect. Fortunately the bloat and weight gain is never something I have experienced from MK677 and I do have a rather carb heavy diet.

The benefits of increased energy and focus will remain as do those noticeable in training such as increased pumps, accelerated strength gains, fat loss (over the course of months) and my overall mood improves. After being on it for several months these benefits are something I start to become used to and take for granted. It's always the case that when i stop taking MK for a while i come to realize just how amazing this drug is.

Restarting reminds me that this is a drug that actually works as you can feel it working from day one. Unlike all the OTC crap I've tried which does sweet **** all other than drain your wallet MK677 is a perfect solution for someone who does not want to go the AAS route and risk shutdown/sides but wants something affordable that can be taken in pill form and delivers an improved quality of life with benefits inside and out of the gym.

I'll continue to cycle MK677 as I have done for the past years and looking forward to the feel good run ahead of me.
 

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I have been using mk677 for 2 weeks now. Started at 12.5mg per day and now am up to 20mg per day.

While i did bloat at the beginning, surprisingly right now i am not bloated at all, no more than i usually am.

The only side effect is hunger few hours after administration (and higher the dose, the longer the window of hunger).

Will the bloat return? Who knows.

The only other thing i can think off is that my libido seems to be declining slowly, could be due to prolactin. But that is easily fixed using either l dopa or p5p, or with stuff like caber (which i have laying around).

I am also taking ashwagandha to counterbalance potential cortisol rise.


BTW, what would be better to take with this to counter minor decrease in insulin sensitivity, berberine or alpha lipoic acid?
 
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CroLifter

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Sooo... as i said, 2 weeks into mk677, started at 12.5mg and now up to 20mg per day...

Not only is the bloat gone but i am more vascular and seem to be leaning out even though i am sedentiary because i am recovering from pneumonia and i certainly aint eating in a deficit.

wtf??
 
Sheriff Morri

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I’m really interested in this compound during my PCT in a few weeks. This thread has been very insightful thanks.
 

CroLifter

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I’m really interested in this compound during my PCT in a few weeks. This thread has been very insightful thanks.
But there is a possibility you will experience lethargy. At 20mg per day it is getting worse for me. However as i am sedentiary recovering from illness it is not a big deal but i couldnt normally function like this.
 
Sheriff Morri

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But there is a possibility you will experience lethargy. At 20mg per day it is getting worse for me. However as i am sedentiary recovering from illness it is not a big deal but i couldnt normally function like this.
Yeah I have issues with the lethargy sides as I drive all day for my job. So my intentions would be taking it late evening so ideally the brunt of the lethargy would be during my sleeping time which is ideal as my sleeping isn’t the best (I’m a light sleeper and my wife is a snorer)
 
Smont

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Yeah I have issues with the lethargy sides as I drive all day for my job. So my intentions would be taking it late evening so ideally the brunt of the lethargy would be during my sleeping time which is ideal as my sleeping isn’t the best (I’m a light sleeper and my wife is a snorer)
On my 3rd or 4th run with mk. Tried something different this time. 12.5mg 5 on 2 off then 18.75 5 on 2 off next week will do 25 5 on 2 off then continue like that for 2 more. Seems to work just the same as running it 7 days a week and the gradual increase gave zero bloat or lethargy, and very little increase in hunger. I decided to do this after seeing ppl go 2 weeks on 1 week off with good results. I got bloodwork in 2 weeks so il find out where igf levels are hopefully
 

CroLifter

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Hunger has subsided but i do experience some lethargy...but thwt could be a mix of mk and also the fact that i am eating tons of garlic which drops my blood pressure.

But all in all, mk677 seems to have increased my metabolic rate. I am actually flat and vascular despite the fact that i am eating more. Bloat is gone too.
and yes, libido is going down the drain, but that is probably because of prolactin, nothing a little caber couldn't fix if i wanted to.
 
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Sheriff Morri

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are you guys on cycle using this?? Are there any benefits of it while mid cycle or would it shine more as a stand-alone while in PCT or a bridge between cycle?
 

CroLifter

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are you guys on cycle using this?? Are there any benefits of it while mid cycle or would it shine more as a stand-alone while in PCT or a bridge between cycle?
Want to use it my next cycle but i first have to see how long will this bad lethargy last, will it go away etc. Wouldnt be able to properly train like this.
 

City Boy

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are you guys on cycle using this?? Are there any benefits of it while mid cycle or would it shine more as a stand-alone while in PCT or a bridge between cycle?
You can run this Pct and beyond or start right now ,it’s a funny old thing as you won’t know what sides you will get until you run it for yourself ,for me 25mg in the evening was best ,if took in the morning lethargy was real bad about 4lbs of water overnight but a great pump and recovery from workouts.Always run a GDA of some kind with it though and check blood glucose levels
 
Sheriff Morri

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You can run this Pct and beyond or start right now ,it’s a funny old thing as you won’t know what sides you will get until you run it for yourself ,for me 25mg in the evening was best ,if took in the morning lethargy was real bad about 4lbs of water overnight but a great pump and recovery from workouts.Always run a GDA of some kind with it though and check blood glucose levels
Thanks man, great info. Can I just ask what the necessity of a GDA is for and what it does?
 

City Boy

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Thanks man, great info. Can I just ask what the necessity of a GDA is for and what it does?
Blood glucose levels will sky rocket and stay raised ,it will basically make your body act like you are diabetic,the Glucose Disposable Agent will act like a diabetic medicine is the best way to describe this
 

CroLifter

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Blood glucose levels will sky rocket and stay raised ,it will basically make your body act like you are diabetic,the Glucose Disposable Agent will act like a diabetic medicine is the best way to describe this
Is this for sure? Didnt think stuff like that was necessary for mk677.
 

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