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Switching Esters - Can it be done?

Number 10

Number 10

Member
Trying to plan a cycle around various trips abroad (work related) and was wondering whether it's possible to switch esters on a test cycle to remove the need to try and take it with you and get it through customs/score some whilst you are there?

E.g: switching from prop to E or cyp just before you go away for 10 days and switching back to prop as soon as you get back.

Is this possible/doable or are the risks too great? Obviously it would not be a perfect cycle from the point of view of completely stable hormone levels, but as a last resort could it work?

Feedback please.
 
If it is only for 10 days. I would go for it switch to test c. Or if need be look into Nebido it releases test over a month period and it is very high does, 1,000mg/1ml.

But you said you are traveling abroad. Look into pharmaceutical regulation in the countries you are traveling too. You may be able to pick up some test there.
 
Ok, I'll post the cycle I'm looking at up here for some critique but in the meantime any tips/thoughts on how exactly this would be done would be greatly appreciated from a dosing point of view.
 
Number 10 said:
Ok, I'll post the cycle I'm looking at up here for some critique but in the meantime any tips/thoughts on how exactly this would be done would be greatly appreciated from a dosing point of view.
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Yeah post your cycle and it will be easier to answer that question. But I haven't heard of anyone cycling with Nebido. I used it once just to experiment.
 
Trying to build up this cycle is really difficult without knowing how to deal with it.

Ignoring all support supps etc for a second, I really was looking at doing 200mg prop EOD, with 4 weeks Anavar at the start of the cycle, and 4 weeks Winstrol at the end (100mg EOD with my prop). It's a 14 week cycle excluding PCT.

The difficulty is I have 2 period in the middle where I can't inject for 7 days and then 10 days. Do I run prop right up until the day I go, and then just hit 700mg of test E before the 7 day trip and 1000mg of test Cyp before the 10 day trip? Or would I be better looking at tapering off the prop after 4 weeks, replacing it with Cyp at the required dose and trying to run that through the middle part of my cycle? If I did that, would I hit prop first day back after the 10 day trip to the end of my cycle (start of week 11 to end of week 14)?

I want to use prop because I want to combine it with the Winny to make injections easier. Any feedback on the best way to do this would be appreciated. Can't take anything with me, and given my schedule in the places I'm going, chances of scoring anything are extremely slim.

Separate question: I presume PCT can be started 2 days after last prop and Winny shot?
 
Sustanon would be a better bet
Or even just inject some equipoise the day before you leave.
Lets be serious, you're not going to lose all your gains with a 4 week break
7 day trip? Lol. Just take the weeks worth of test before you leave, enanthate is fine. I think taking a gram a week is ****ing retarded, personally and if you plan on doing 700mg of test prop a week, I'd just inject 3cc of enanthate before the trip and continue the prop when you get back

Check out this picture. i.imgur.com/nl7oOYx.png
I front loaded with prop, 200mg every other day for 4 weeks. Then at the end of week 4 gave a 750mg injection of enanthate, week 6 back on the prop with a 750mg enanthate injection at the end of it then a 10 day break followed by another week of the prop.
As you can see, it's really nothing to worry about. At your very worst, you're at 48mg of test which is 336mg a week. This is more than enough to maintain your physique and you have levels below 500mg a week for a total of 2 days in the first trip and 6 days in the second- assuming you only have a week between trips. So as you can see, the cortisol response from worrying about this will do more to hurt your progress than not pinning for a week. Frankly, I'm on less than a quarter of what you're on, inject once a week and build just fine. Not being holier than thou, just pointing out it really doesn't matter
 
Number 10 said:
Trying to build up this cycle is really difficult without knowing how to deal with it.

Ignoring all support supps etc for a second, I really was looking at doing 200mg prop EOD, with 4 weeks Anavar at the start of the cycle, and 4 weeks Winstrol at the end (100mg EOD with my prop). It's a 14 week cycle excluding PCT.

The difficulty is I have 2 period in the middle where I can't inject for 7 days and then 10 days. Do I run prop right up until the day I go, and then just hit 700mg of test E before the 7 day trip and 1000mg of test Cyp before the 10 day trip? Or would I be better looking at tapering off the prop after 4 weeks, replacing it with Cyp at the required dose and trying to run that through the middle part of my cycle? If I did that, would I hit prop first day back after the 10 day trip to the end of my cycle (start of week 11 to end of week 14)?

I want to use prop because I want to combine it with the Winny to make injections easier. Any feedback on the best way to do this would be appreciated. Can't take anything with me, and given my schedule in the places I'm going, chances of scoring anything are extremely slim.

Separate question: I presume PCT can be started 2 days after last prop and Winny shot?
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Like the other poster said 1000 Mgs is excessive. I would do 500-700 of test c the day I leave for both trips. And yes take the prop up until the day before your trip. For pct begin the second day after your last injection. Why are you running such short esters for 14 weeks?
 
RH2012 said:
i'd do a prop, cyp mix if u have access to both. right before i left. the dose is up to you. the half life of prop is 3-5 days, so the cyp will be releasing at full before the prop leaves your system. this is good enough imo. shots dont wear off overnight. just continue to eat and train normally while you're on the road and it will work out to be positive gains.
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Why not just use sustanon? Honest question, it's cheaper that's for sure
 
In fairness, I built a cycle around prop because I wanted to end with Winny and was going to pin together to reduce soreness. Ideally it would have been 8 - 10 weeks, but I have that 4 week period in the middle where I'm travelling.

I looked at 1000mg of test for the second injection of Cyp to last me the 10 days, and was originally going to look at E for the 7 day shot.

So taking all this into account, I'd be doing prop at 200mg EOD up until the day I go, when I take 700mg of Cyp before both trips, starting with 200mg prop again as soon as I land. That sound about right?

Separate question, I like to use HCG during cycle to try and combat shrinkage. I normally hit around 350IU twice a week from week 2, and finish in my last week of cycle. Would it be worth doing twice that in one shot prior to the trip, or keep it at 350IU and just miss a shot?

I'll post the full cycle up for some pulling apart once I've had the ok on this. Wanted to use topical dienelone as well but decided against it.
 
Number 10 said:
In fairness, I built a cycle around prop because I wanted to end with Winny and was going to pin together to reduce soreness. Ideally it would have been 8 - 10 weeks, but I have that 4 week period in the middle where I'm travelling.

I looked at 1000mg of test for the second injection of Cyp to last me the 10 days, and was originally going to look at E for the 7 day shot.

So taking all this into account, I'd be doing prop at 200mg EOD up until the day I go, when I take 700mg of Cyp before both trips, starting with 200mg prop again as soon as I land. That sound about right?

Separate question, I like to use HCG during cycle to try and combat shrinkage. I normally hit around 350IU twice a week from week 2, and finish in my last week of cycle. Would it be worth doing twice that in one shot prior to the trip, or keep it at 350IU and just miss a shot?

I'll post the full cycle up for some pulling apart once I've had the ok on this. Wanted to use topical dienelone as well but decided against it.
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Yeah that would be fine. Or just take 750mg of long estered test once a week and save a load of money...
The HCG, run it post cycle only. Wait 7-10 days then do a single, 5000ui shot. Follow up with another shot the next week if needed. This is what endos do to treat people with 0 HPTA functionality and imo, the best way.

Do not use HCG on cycle, your leydig cells will develop a tolerance to it and it won't work as well when you need it- post cycle. Your balls can be kept just fine by keeping IGF-1 high on cycle. A single shot of GHRP2 before you go to sleep should be plenty
 
AlexPowell said:
Yeah that would be fine. Or just take 750mg of long estered test once a week and save a load of money... The HCG, run it post cycle only. Wait 7-10 days then do a single, 5000ui shot. Follow up with another shot the next week if needed. This is what endos do to treat people with 0 HPTA functionality and imo, the best way. Do not use HCG on cycle, your leydig cells will develop a tolerance to it and it won't work as well when you need it- post cycle. Your balls can be kept just fine by keeping IGF-1 high on cycle. A single shot of GHRP2 before you go to sleep should be plenty
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Cheers, appreciate the feedback on the test. Worried about the HCG though, it's not what I'd read elsewhere on the site? Does anyone else run it like that?
 
I don't run HCG so I can't really comment too much on it. But that's what endos do
Triptorelin is also good. A single 100ui shot is usually enough
 
Sorry, just re-read that, didn't mean to disrespect your opinion or anything, just want to make sure I've got everything right prior to jumping in, including all my cycle supports.

Appreciate the advice.
 
RH2012 said:
i'd do a prop, cyp mix if u have access to both. right before i left. the dose is up to you. the half life of prop is 3-5 days, so the cyp will be releasing at full before the prop leaves your system. this is good enough imo. shots dont wear off overnight. just continue to eat and train normally while you're on the road and it will work out to be positive gains.
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It's not necessarily losing gains over the travel period I'm worried about, it's more me worrying around wildly fluctuating hormone levels through not planning and approaching the cycle properly from the outset. In terms of experience, this will be my third cycle (excluding PH's), but I'm still a relative novice to some people on here and like to try and make sure I've got every base covered so that I get the most from a cycle at the least risk to my body. Training on the road won't be a problem at all - the 7 day one is altitude training in the Austrian Alps!!
 
Your long ester will need about 3 weeks to reach peak levels. Prop will be out of your system in 3 to 4 days. Unless you have started to take the long ester well enough in advance your levels will drop pretty rapidly once you drop the prop. Increasing the amount of test in your long ester injection is not going to change that.
 
David Dunn said:
Your long ester will need about 3 weeks to reach peak levels. Prop will be out of your system in 3 to 4 days. Unless you have started to take the long ester well enough in advance your levels will drop pretty rapidly once you drop the prop. Increasing the amount of test in your long ester injection is not going to change that.
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So what would your advice be? Run prop alongside Cyp for 3 weeks before I go and then stay on Cyp until I get back from the second trip and start straight back on prop again?
 
Number 10 said:
So what would your advice be? Run prop alongside Cyp for 3 weeks before I go and then stay on Cyp until I get back from the second trip and start straight back on prop again?
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Yes! I would consider tapering the prop dose mid second week or first part of the third week and drop it out entirely before the wthird week is out. Additionally you could wait 3 to 5 days after your last cyp injection fefore you begin the prop again.
 
David Dunn said:
Yes! I would consider tapering the prop dose mid second week or first part of the third week and drop it out entirely before the wthird week is out. Additionally you could wait 3 to 5 days after your last cyp injection fefore you begin the prop again.
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Ok that's great, appreciate the advice.
 
Actually I have another question regarding esters in general. Generally everyone talks about half life of it being out of your system, and blood concentrations etc, but isn't the main difference with esters how quickly they are released into the blood stream, not necessarily excreted out of it?

From a chemical aspect, doesn't the length of the ester mean it takes test longer to break down and be released into the bloodstream? In which case, once it has been released into the bloodstream, shouldn't it just have same the chemical half life of pure testosterone?

Otherwise, looking at the build up in the blood stream based on half life's, and active levels of test at 500mg per week for Cyp over 10 weeks I made a rough half life calculator, these go well over the levels of taking 700mg prop a week even based on EOD. There should also be no longer kick in period for Cyp because your test levels on Cyp are always higher than they are on prop by day 8.

The active "substance" in prop, Cyp, E etc is the same, so there shouldn't be a difference there. This leads me to a few key issues I just can't get my head around:

1) Either a lot of the stuff I've read about esters is wrong, and the half life is how long it takes to release that amount from the depot into the bloodstream, not be secreted from the bloodstream.

2) If (1) is wrong, then everyone is dosing either prop too low or Cyp/enanthate (very very small difference based on percentage drop per day) far too high. I can't think that's right because the build up of levels over 10 weeks of 500mg test E/Cyp are huge!

3) If I am right and ester is about release into the bloodstream, then a lot of the calculations done and other articles etc available are wrong, because one in the bloodstream (i.e. the ester is gone) then it should have the half life/same secretion profile as unaltered/unesterified test.

4) I'm totally wrong and some crazy clever scientist is going to show me exactly how and why!!

This has turned into a real long post, so may start it as a new thread. I want to get to the bottom of it as it's blown my mind over the last few days!

Looking forward to some help on this.
 
When you inject enanthate it will start working as soon as it is in your system
It doesn't take 2-3 weeks to start working. Take a look at that roidcalc I posted, it's a good tool if you're interested. At the start of a cycle it will take 2-3 weeks for blood levels to peak but you already have a high level of prop in your system. Use the calc to load up on prop then look at how long it takes blood levels to fall. Then load up on enanthate and see how long it takes blood levels to peak. You'll get a crossover, it really doesn't matter.
 
AlexPowell said:
When you inject enanthate it will start working as soon as it is in your system
It doesn't take 2-3 weeks to start working. Take a look at that roidcalc I posted, it's a good tool if you're interested. At the start of a cycle it will take 2-3 weeks for blood levels to peak but you already have a high level of prop in your system. Use the calc to load up on prop then look at how long it takes blood levels to fall. Then load up on enanthate and see how long it takes blood levels to peak. You'll get a crossover, it really doesn't matter.
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If he drops out the prop the high levels will be out of his system pretty quick - much quicker than the enanthate will catch up.

To each their own.
 
The image I posted above lists exactly how much test will be in his system and when, the OP can make his own decision based on this
 
It works fine, you just copy and pasted it wrong. I have enough posts now anyway, so I'll just link it up

Invalid Link Removed
 
AlexPowell said:
It works fine, you just copy and pasted it wrong. I have enough posts now anyway, so I'll just link it up
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Cheers. Is that right though? That's showing huge levels going into the body from the point of view of ng/dl? The top end of the range without supplementation is normally 1,000ng/dl, which equates to approximately 0.05mg in your bloodstream. This is indicating up to 100mg+ which is in excess of 2,000x the normal level. Surely there's an error in the maths or calculation, or I'm not getting it?!
 
Top range is like 700ng/dl lol
You have around 5 litres of blood in the body, 50dl
100mg total would be 2mg/dl or 2,000,000ng/dl

This is stupid however, as I know for a fact 250mg will give you blood levels of ~2000ng/dl so 750 would be roughly 6000ng/dl
So obviously there is more to this than simple looking at how many mg are being released per day when it comes to blood levels
 
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