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Sweetlou's training log

liftandswim said:
I think either option would work
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I agree. I will probably switch to conventional as sumo really loads my bad si. I only have a 35lb difference between the two also.

I will probably try the elevated heel close stance too. I want to do a meet at the end of Feb. Meet prep would start in December. So I have about 6 weeks to get as fresh as I can. Pec/shoulders feel good besides low bar. We will see how it goes. Once I get health insurance I will be seeing a Dr about it and a chiro weekly till everything is fixed up. Now I'm just dealing with constant inflammation.
 
Depends who you talk to, but most would agree that if you pull sumo you should still keep up on some conventional pulling. At the very least some SLDLs. If it helps you recover better, win-win. Your pull is already damn proficient so it's not like you're missing out on technique work
 
liftandswim said:
Depends who you talk to, but most would agree that if you pull sumo you should still keep up on some conventional pulling. At the very least some SLDLs. If it helps you recover better, win-win. Your pull is already damn proficient so it's not like you're missing out on technique work
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My conventional pull isn't nearly as proficient as my sumo. Awhile ago I switched for 8 weeks. Best raw conv to date was 508 in comp, best raw sumo was 455, best geared sumo was 575 in comp (yes I get a lot of gear lol). After 8 weeks of 4in block, 1in deficit, pulls from the floor, and speed pulls against bands/chains I added 37lbs (545) to my conv. 1 week later I hit 555 sumo raw. 2 weeks later I hit 620 sumo geared for another huge PR. 3 weeks later I hit 635 geared sumo and missed 655 twice due to grip while having the flu.
Guess after reflecting some conv work is a good idea for me lol.
 
liftandswim said:
Depends who you talk to, but most would agree that if you pull sumo you should still keep up on some conventional pulling. At the very least some SLDLs. If it helps you recover better, win-win. Your pull is already damn proficient so it's not like you're missing out on technique work
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This is exactly what I thought when I read about the hip stress sumo is giving.

If you're not in meet prep there is 0 reason for you to be pulling Sumo right now. Conventional in off-season will let the hips get some reprieve.

And if you don't have access to an SSB just use hi-bar. Also squat your normal width and depth. Accomplishes nearly the same in shoulder/wrist/elbow relief and position and you'll keep much more weight on the bar vs fronts. This is important if you want to minimize the detraining from comp stance low bar.
 
Damn it. I was planning on taking some time off from back squats and just doing fronts for this hyper block. But that last part just made me rethink it to using the ssb instead.
 
jswain34 said:
Damn it. I was planning on taking some time off from back squats and just doing fronts for this hyper block. But that last part just made me rethink it to using the ssb instead.
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At least the discussion is helping. For what's its worth I can use a touch more on ssb but prefer the feel of front.
 
Hyde said:
This is exactly what I thought when I read about the hip stress sumo is giving.

If you're not in meet prep there is 0 reason for you to be pulling Sumo right now. Conventional in off-season will let the hips get some reprieve.

And if you don't have access to an SSB just use hi-bar. Also squat your normal width and depth. Accomplishes nearly the same in shoulder/wrist/elbow relief and position and you'll keep much more weight on the bar vs fronts. This is important if you want to minimize the detraining from comp stance low bar.
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I have access to one at my home gym of Obb. But when down south visiting my gf its a hit and miss on whether I'll have one or not. Depends on how her coach feels about me training at his gym lol. Thanks for the help man. Appreciate it!

I guess conv it is for now. Sumo will be taking a break.
 
SweetLou321 said:
At least the discussion is helping. For what's its worth I can use a touch more on ssb but prefer the feel of front.
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Good point. I don't even have enough experience using the ssb to know how the two compare for me.
 
jswain34 said:
Good point. I don't even have enough experience using the ssb to know how the two compare for me.
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I really like the ssb until I gotta walk it out lol. I feel more connected to the bar front squats and you don't need a special bar for it. But you will be limitied by your upper backs ability to support the bar. 315 really starts to crush me forward. With the ssb you can just keep rolling up. I've gone up to the 5-6s before in gear and 4s raw.
 
Yeah, that's around the area fronts start pitching me forward too due to upper back strength giving out.

Do you keep your comp stance for ssb?

Does it allow you to keep a vertical torso with a similar quad emphasis like fronts do?

I suppose i could just give them both a try and see how they go.

Also i wonder how it'd go if i turned the ssb around and did fronts that way, that way it takes the upper back out of it some but still should allow a little bit more of a front squat movement.
 
jswain34 said:
Yeah, that's around the area fronts start pitching me forward too due to upper back strength giving out.

Do you keep your comp stance for ssb?

Does it allow you to keep a vertical torso with a similar quad emphasis like fronts do?

I suppose i could just give them both a try and see how they go.

Also i wonder how it'd go if i turned the ssb around and did fronts that way, that way it takes the upper back out of it some but still should allow a little bit more of a front squat movement.
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I keep the same stance for all squats/variations. One less variable I have to track for carryover.

Ssb pitches me worse then fronts but due to it not falling off me I can fight it. You can also tilt the handles up to help with the pitching.

Both are similar on the quads/back. Ssb hits my lumbar harder.

I tried to unrack the ssb backwards and said **** this lol.
 
jswain34 said:
Damn it. I was planning on taking some time off from back squats and just doing fronts for this hyper block. But that last part just made me rethink it to using the ssb instead.
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If you're in a true hyper block then what I'm saying isn't relevant. Muscle work is the focus not weight on the bar. This is the time for you to abandon the comp lifts if you want for now. Assuming you're gonna build muscle for 6-10 weeks then strength block for 8-12 THEN meet prep you've got 2-3 months after the hyper phase to get used to comp lifts again before even going into 6-12 weeks of meet prep.

If I'm using fronts/hi bar/ssb for quad accessory I squat shoulder width and deep as possible. If I'm using SSB or hi-bar as a main movement it's comp stance and just through parallel, fwiw.
 
After debating several variations to put effective lifts that let me recover I'm thinking

Deadlift
Conv pull-less pressure on hips
1-2in deficit conv pull-longer range of motion and have to fight for position
Pause conv pull-build tightness and relearn positioning

Squat
Comp squat-slightly more narrow with oly shoes to take pressure off bad hip
High bar-less pressure on shoulders/elbows and stay more upright. Use more weight than front squat
Front squat-less pressure on shoulders/elbows and stay more update right than all other variations. Use less weight.

Bench
Comp bench-most stable position
Close grip-less pec engagement but trouble keeping position
Buffalo bar bench-longer range of motion, load proper motor patterns.

Would love your guys thoughts on which two you would pick.

I would obv pick comp squat, pull, and bench as one variation.

Just wanna see what you guys think to help me build my pros and con's of each to pick the best lifts for this particular block of my training.

Goals
Let shoulder and hips recover
Get stronger and feel fresh when I start meet prep soon.
Relearn proper bench mechanics
Relearn conv pull bc of hips
Learn to stay more upright in the squat and use my hips correctly again.
 
My 2 pennies: conv pull from atop a plate w non-deadlift bar and a pause pull after without plate. These will be easy on hips and let you learn position. Do the squat stance/shoe mod but use hi bar to let you learn to stay upright then fronts after. And finally comp bench then cgbp. If your shoulders need rest AND w your pec a buffalo bar bench is the last thing you'd want I'd think.
 
Hyde said:
My 2 pennies: conv pull from atop a plate w non-deadlift bar and a pause pull after without plate. These will be easy on hips and let you learn position. Do the squat stance/shoe mod but use hi bar to let you learn to stay upright then fronts after. And finally comp bench then cgbp. If your shoulders need rest AND w your pec a buffalo bar bench is the last thing you'd want I'd think.
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Thanks for the input bud. I do everything twice a week right now. So it would be a squat followed by a pull, and a pull followed by a squat. Two bench days with rehab work after. I like your pics personally.

Could do
Comp bench

High bar squat
Deficit pull

Cgbp

Pause pull
Front squat

As far as the buffalo bar. I saw duffin explain that due to how the bar sits in your hands it actually takes pressure off the places bench usually hurts people (shoulders/pecs) and puts it in to muscles you want. Even with the extra ROM most guys bench pain free and it helps teach proper motor patterns.
 
I'm gonna have to look into duffins argument on this. For some reason i dont buy it, gonna have to hear what he says. It just doesn't seem logical to me. I dont get how a bent bar that will more than likely put your GH joint further into hyperextension than it already could be would help shoulder/pec pain. But hes smart as hell and some of the stuff he has said has helped me tremendously so ill at least look into it.
 
jswain34 said:
I'm gonna have to look into duffins argument on this. For some reason i dont buy it, gonna have to hear what he says. It just doesn't seem logical to me. I dont get how a bent bar that will more than likely put your GH joint further into hyperextension than it already could be would help shoulder/pec pain. But hes smart as hell and some of the stuff he has said has helped me tremendously so ill at least look into it.
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It's in his jessy burdick interview part 2. Could be just hype to sell more bars but it sounds logical when he explains it.
 
I'd add in some conventional block pulls on occasion too. Not sure about you, but as a sumo puller I struggle more with conventional block pulls than I do a deficit. It'll get your glutes working hard. Maybe pull some light sumo off 2" blocks once a month as a down set.

Instead of comp width bench, why not do an entire block without it. Just alter it a hand spacing or so.

I like the idea of a narrower stance with ally shoes.
 
Sean1332 said:
I'd add in some conventional block pulls on occasion too. Not sure about you, but as a sumo puller I struggle more with conventional block pulls than I do a deficit. It'll get your glutes working hard. Maybe pull some light sumo off 2" blocks once a month as a down set.

Instead of comp width bench, why not do an entire block without it. Just alter it a hand spacing or so.

I like the idea of a narrower stance with ally shoes.
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If I'm gonna switch it'll probably be more permanent until I can get fixed up. I am pretty bad at block pulls. Sumo or conv bc I can't create nearly as much tension to break the weight.
I haven't really benched comp grip since I hurt my pec. I'm just now adding it back in. So that would just be more time away from that.

Im trying to limit my variations bc I'm a lazy **** with programming. I can program 3 variations of each however if you guys think that's best.
 
You could have 3 variants and one is constant. Say all warmup for example is comp bench to trace setup and form. Then for work sets you jump in a handwidth like Sean said, then next wk Buffalo work? Or boards/reactive slanger/floor/insert variant for x reason.
Every week you do all warmups comp then work sets alt weekly of cgbp and buffalo.
 
Hyde said:
You could have 3 variants and one is constant. Say all warmup for example is comp bench to trace setup and form. Then for work sets you jump in a handwidth like Sean said, then next wk Buffalo work? Or boards/reactive slanger/floor/insert variant for x reason.
Every week you do all warmups comp then work sets alt weekly of cgbp and buffalo.
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I get what you're saying but honestly I'm not that kind of lifter. I like to warmup like I'm gonna perform the lift personally.

I have two bench and two squat/deadlift days. I can simply just rotate through each variation in a cycle. Or leave one day like

Comp bench, constant

Comp squat, constant
Rotate deficit/block pulls

Rotate buffalo/cgbp

Comp pull
Rotate high bar/front squat.

I like CWS layout but I'm not healthy enough and my schedule doesn't allow that kind of ridge schedule ATM. So 4 days is what I have to work with.
 
I'm back bitches.

10/16/15-bench, light
Warmup
Roll/stretch
Rows
Pullups
Ohdbp

Buffalo bar bench paused
Work up
325x1, gonna use this max for the training cycle
72.5%-235x4x6
Flat db press paused rehab
30x2x20
Seated oh db press paused
55x2x8
Seated cable rows med grip overhand paused
120x10
135x10
150x3x8
Rolling tricep ext/bb curls
40x8/65x8, 2 sets
Side raises/micro band rear felt raise/db shrugs/micro band ext rot/shoulder horn
15x15/15/70x15/10/10x10, 2 sets

Recovery:
One arm pipe swings 2x15 each way, 3x15 left arm
30s one arm hangs, I needed these bad

Notes: the buffalo bar feels great to bench with. No pec pain and hit all the right spots. I was shot after it. I tried my old arch and learned why I can't keep benching that way with 325. Wrecked my back. Also didn't realize I was grabbing 2 fingers wider with the buffalo bar bc of where the rings are, plus the extra range of motion. I guess I'm back lol. Very productive day. Getting my motivation back.
 
Glad the buffalo bar worked for you man. If it works for you then to hell with it go with it.
 
I noticed my technique is very off on bench and squat. As I've lost my tightness/touch. Would you guys think some cat work to regain that would be good or just keep making it a prime focus on my regular work sets? I feel speed/cat work is what made me so efficient in the first place bc it was just practice and trying to move the bar as efficient as possible. I know speed isn't important for powerlifting.
 
I can always fix it by watching Duffin talk about it for 15 min and focusing within a session. That kind of cue implementation works immediately.
 
So your bench tightness was better due to speed, isn't speed then important for you? If it works for you, it doesn't matter what Dr. Mike or CWS says.
 
herderdude said:
So your bench tightness was better due to speed, isn't speed then important for you? If it works for you, it doesn't matter what Dr. Mike or CWS says.
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Tightness and efficient motor patterns are very important to me. Speed work/cat work allowed me to dial it in due to practice. I was just saying getting very fast isnt that important for powerlifting. I agree with you here.
 
Yes and no. Over last 3 months I learned how to stop being a sissy on bench and now get the bar down to my chest like I own it instead of slowing under higher intensity. It has helped tremendously. If you were born as a non-explosive lifter like me, it can pay to get faster.
 
Hyde said:
Yes and no. Over last 3 months I learned how to stop being a sissy on bench and now get the bar down to my chest like I own it instead of slowing under higher intensity. It has helped tremendously. If you were born as a non-explosive lifter like me, it can pay to get faster.
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I'm naturally slow AF. I had to learn to explode. I'm now one of the fastest guys at Obb. The other guys who faster then me also does a good amount of speed work.
 
Hey Lou, Herder told me to ask you what Jo Jordan said the #1 contribution to his bench over the years has been?
 
SweetLou321 said:
And I quote "up the dose". No lie.
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That's awesome. Would explain the weightclass swings = bench rising/falling more.

I cannot wait to get on cycle again at some point. Last time on androgens was at comp a year ago. I've bested all my numbers since while off them. I want to beat those numbers again, and THEN go back on and smash those lol
 
10/17/15-squat/deadlift
Warmup
Usual stuff

Conv deadlift
Work up
455x1, moved OK
425x3x4, these were super hit and miss. Some flew, some didn't lol.
425x2x1 better
High bar squat
325x2x3 only shoe
325x2x3 flats
Reverse hypers/bss
45x12/bwx10
45x12/15x8
Abs wheel/reverse grip pulldowns
10/120x10, 2 sets
Cardio: skipped
Notes: **** me. My back was shot from benching. The conv pulls put the nail in the coffin. They didn't feel great half the reps, to be expected since its been forever since I've really pulled that way. No hip pain. My back was so tight and pumped squatting was damn near impossible. I found out my oly shoes are not enough of a heel to even let me really squat more narrow. Yes my ankles are that bad. I max out at 90 degrees with no weight. Been that way as long as I can remember. No amount of rolling or mobility has helped. My squat is a mess. I'd even go so far as to say my conv pull is more technical lol.

I'll list my issues I noticed on each set.

No idea how to use my hips when I squat, weird bc I can use them great to pull sumo
No idea how to use my quads even tho they are big?
To much glutes/hamstring causing me to gm it
Falling into the hole and not pulling myself down, issue on bench too.
No idea how to engage my back/lats without extending. High or low bar.
 
I think you focus a little too much on what muscles you're using and not the movement itself. Idk, just a thought? Could be off base
 
Try tempo stuff? Feel the positioning and spend a lot of time working it to get better faster that way.
 
liftandswim said:
I think you focus a little too much on what muscles you're using and not the movement itself. Idk, just a thought? Could be off base
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I agree with you I have been. Duffins glutes activation has really been the seed that sported into this. My glutes fire on my pulls even when I don't feel them. I should probably assume the same on squat. I also don't bench unless I feel my lats. These traits deff affect my confidence and speed. Good call.

However I need to locate the root of my knee pain. With squats. It makes no sense pulls are pain free, sumo or conv yet squats hurt from the get go?
 
Duramaxhd said:
Paralysis by analysis
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Id agree if it was anything BUT squats. I really need to figure out where my knee pain is coming from.

I think I just need to sit into my hips and stay tight after watching my vids. I tend to loosen up as I hit depth, come forward, end up on my toes, and I'm sure over time that has lead to knee pain, now put me in heel and its gonna be worse bc of the nature of a shoe. I need to follow swims advice, focus on the movement and just stay tight.
 
Hyde said:
Give up and do something else. I hear hot yoga is loaded with babes in skimpy clothes.
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Lol. I'm hurt not injured or ****ed up yet. I honestly write a lot of thoughts hear so I can reread them and eventually break them down into something useful. This is my log. I act very little on things I write until I think clearly about it.

Squat form has been an issue for me, for forever. I rarely give any real thought to deadlift. Get tight and go. Bench has only been an issue lately to find something comfortable but also not hard on my back. Not a crazy amount of thought goes into it either. I'll settle on a form eventually I'm happy with.
 
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