Sust/Deca/Tren/dbol cycle

[TallyBigDog]

So going for gusto... Will be my 5th inj cycle.

Wks 1-12 500mg wk sust,
Wks 1-12 300mg week deca
Wks 1-10 100mg week Tren E

Wks 1-4 dbol 25mg daily (12.5mg a.m./pm)
Wks 11-14 dbol 25mg day (12.5mg a.m./pm)

PCT Wks 15-18 Nolva/Clomid

Ceatine, multi-vitamin, Omega-3 ritual

Primarily just looking for input on the ratios, experiences running both 19nor, any tips or adjustments you would make. I appreciate the input brothers
Last cycle was 20weeks 2 Sust 400wk/2 Deca 300/dbol 20mg day jumpstart and end cycle... absolutely no AI needed but handful of times and my pct was light but recovered well with the hcg.

Stats; 5'10" 178 with 3%bf..... I've maintained over last 5months completely off cycle ripped physic from diet and lifting so-so....work is physically demanding so that helps. Total mass lost maybe 10lbs

Thanks again bros

 

[TallyBigDog]

Dang....thought this was a forum to help with advice from experience. Input would be nice, maybe I posted it in wrong place? Anyone care to share they're own experience?

 

[composner]

Dang....thought this was a forum to help with advice from experience. Input would be nice, maybe I posted it in wrong place? Anyone care to share they're own experience?

Sometimes posts get lost in the spam mix, you'd have better luck in the anabolic forum. I don't have too much experience with AAS so I won't comment on your cycle plans, but what I am wondering is why you've been hanging out at 3% for 5 months and are about to start 10 weeks of tren. What are your goals?

 

[Smont]

Just a heads up, if you were really 3%bf you would be dead or on your death bed. Even the most shredded bodybuilders in the world are 4.5-5% on stage.

Regardless, I don't like the cycle. That cycle is a estrogen/prolactin time bomb of side effects for most ppl. I definitely couldn't stack those with a lot of problems

 

[Dominus]

Just a heads up, if you were really 3%bf you would be dead or on your death bed. Even the most shredded bodybuilders in the world are 4.5-5% on stage.

Regardless, I don't like the cycle. That cycle is a estrogen/prolactin time bomb of side effects for most ppl. I definitely couldn't stack those with a lot of problems

Lol I agree. If I was 3% and not even on tren there’s no way I’d touch it. Just a little test and maybe primo or masteron to maintain.

 

[Dominus]

Dang....thought this was a forum to help with advice from experience. Input would be nice, maybe I posted it in wrong place? Anyone care to share they're own experience?

Could be because the bullshit detectors went off when you said “3%” bf

 

[TallyBigDog]

Just a heads up, if you were really 3%bf you would be dead or on your death bed. Even the most shredded bodybuilders in the world are 4.5-5% on stage.

Regardless, I don't like the cycle. That cycle is a estrogen/prolactin time bomb of side effects for most ppl. I definitely couldn't stack those with a lot of problems

Lol, I'm just guessing my bf% bud....maybe your right, but I do have vascularity all through my abs, obliques, legs, chest, shoulders....even one in my trap....I can see the muscle fibers literally. I know that I get deathly ill if I don't consume calories regularly, it's almost like I've trained my metabolism to speed up over these last 3years training myself to get ripped....super active with work, clean diet, specific foods only and a deficit for over 2years the last year I've been able to increase that without any reversals and as of last 3months I've increased my intake to try and pack back on lean mass....I've always been 200-230lbs...I'm presently at about 180...

Other thing is....5months ago when I finished my last cycle of deca (20wks) I had literally ZERO sides so I believe the low dose tren will not be a worry but again that is why I am asking for input from experience that have ran similiar cycle.

I surely appreciate your input. I'll get some photos up and you can tell me what you think my bf% is...cool?

 

[TallyBigDog]

Sometimes posts get lost in the spam mix, you'd have better luck in the anabolic forum. I don't have too much experience with AAS so I won't comment on your cycle plans, but what I am wondering is why you've been hanging out at 3% for 5 months and are about to start 10 weeks of tren. What are your goals?

Hey man I appreciate your honesty and any input/advice or experience you can offer....

I hadn't been just hanging out at 3% I've worked for that (3yrs now) spent last 5months in "recoop mode" watching diet close and activity level to get and keep low bf% without losing too much of what I gained from such a long cycle of deca (20wks)... The previous cycle was to reach the goals that I am now at (body contouring) and the 5months in-between then and now has been about maintaining that without loss or AAS assisting it...its just the time that has passed since now and starting my next cycle... I had literally ZERO sides to the deca entire cycle

My goals are to increase my weight back up too my normal range (200-220) but keeping my BF low as possible. Seems I've changed my metabolism; it's on fire now....so that's good.

I've always been an easy gainer, always been heavier...never have I been this lean even in my heyday when I ran 5miles a day for years.....I've bulked many times in my life but fats always come with it to a degree and when you try to cut; the mass goes with it... so now the whole plan has been to get too baseline and then let muscle memory do its thing. I'm hoping the tren will help with that... Like 220lbs in a 175lb bag is what I'm looking for. Craziest part is even at a lighter weight I actually look bigger.

 

[TallyBigDog]

Could be because the bullshit detectors went off when you said “3%” bf

How about 3-5% is that better? I know it's super low, almost unhealthy low....the second my body tells me hungry if I don't get something in me asap I've nearly.black out..... It's nauseating for sure.

 

[Smont]

Lol, I'm just guessing my bf% bud....maybe your right, but I do have vascularity all through my abs, obliques, legs, chest, shoulders....even one in my trap....I can see the muscle fibers literally. I know that I get deathly ill if I don't consume calories regularly, it's almost like I've trained my metabolism to speed up over these last 3years training myself to get ripped....super active with work, clean diet, specific foods only and a deficit for over 2years the last year I've been able to increase that without any reversals and as of last 3months I've increased my intake to try and pack back on lean mass....I've always been 200-230lbs...I'm presently at about 180...

Other thing is....5months ago when I finished my last cycle of deca (20wks) I had literally ZERO sides so I believe the low dose tren will not be a worry but again that is why I am asking for input from experience that have ran similiar cycle.

I surely appreciate your input. I'll get some photos up and you can tell me what you think my bf% is...cool?

In the bigger scheme of things your gonna have to try it and find out. I only know a few guys that run tren and deca together and they do it with no testosterone in the cycle. As crazy as it sounds they can only tolerate the sides when they take test out of the picture. I'm not reccomending that tho. Make sure it's tren ace so you can pull it out if you have to.

Here's a bodyfat chart lol

 

[Smont]

It's hard to judge by your abs in your avatar but by that picture I'd guess 8-9%

Which is leaner then 99% of athletes

4% means your ready to walk on a bodybuilding stage. Your fat is so low it hurts to walk Because there's no more fat left on the pads of your feet.

 

[TallyBigDog]

In the bigger scheme of things your gonna have to try it and find out. I only know a few guys that run tren and deca together and they do it with no testosterone in the cycle. As crazy as it sounds they can only tolerate the sides when they take test out of the picture. I'm not reccomending that tho. Make sure it's tren ace so you can pull it out if you have to.

Here's a bodyfat chart lolView attachment 230724

I'm definitely in the 4-5% based on those photos lol, vascularity everywhere abs, obliques, shoulders, backarms, quads even chest and trap....and can see striated tissue everywhere (the muscle fibers.) Don't really need to prove it to anyone I've worked for it, thanks for the photo lol I'll post some soon

 

[TallyBigDog]

It's hard to judge by your abs in your avatar but by that picture I'd guess 8-9%

Which is leaner then 99% of athletes

4% means your ready to walk on a bodybuilding stage. Your fat is so low it hurts to walk Because there's no more fat left on the pads of your feet.

Omg! Dude....I've had more problems with my feet (the actual pads of foot by toes) lately than anything last 6 months....like cramp and extra socks....I know I've got to get a bannana in me daily or I'll go to cramping up... I've found one of the only things that relieves this low bf for me believe or not and I'm honestly interested in hearing your guys opinion is that I consume coffee most the day with sugar in it but not much just enough to take bitter away....around the shakes and lean eating it's the only thing I've found to subside the hunger pains or being ready to black out.....thoughts?

Appreciate your input guys

 

[TallyBigDog]

It's hard to judge by your abs in your avatar but by that picture I'd guess 8-9%

Which is leaner then 99% of athletes

4% means your ready to walk on a bodybuilding stage. Your fat is so low it hurts to walk Because there's no more fat left on the pads of your feet.

Also bud...that was just a quick shot while grilling the other night when I joined..... Not trying to show nothing on the avatar and none of that is pumped when it is there's veines all threw abs bud, that's just normal sitting abs in that avatar.

 

[Smont]

Omg! Dude....I've had more problems with my feet (the actual pads of foot by toes) lately than anything last 6 months....like cramp and extra socks....I know I've got to get a bannana in me daily or I'll go to cramping up... I've found one of the only things that relieves this low bf for me believe or not and I'm honestly interested in hearing your guys opinion is that I consume coffee most the day with sugar in it but not much just enough to take bitter away....around the shakes and lean eating it's the only thing I've found to subside the hunger pains or being ready to black out.....thoughts?

Appreciate your input guys

Sounds like you need to get a glucose monitor and start eating more real food and less sugar and shakes.

Seriously, go to Wal-Mart and get a $30 glucose monitor

 

[Smont]

Also bud...that was just a quick shot while grilling the other night when I joined..... Not trying to show nothing on the avatar and none of that is pumped when it is there's veines all threw abs bud, that's just normal sitting abs in that avatar.

If you want a accurate bf assessment, you want pictures first thing in the morning, no pump, no food.

Regardless, I don't really care what anyone's bf is, but if you really are sub 5% your damaging your health and significantly limiting your muscle growth.

I think your going hypo , get a glucose monitor

 

[TallyBigDog]

Sounds like you need to get a glucose monitor and start eating more real food and less sugar and shakes.

Seriously, go to Wal-Mart and get a $30 glucose monitor

I've thought about my blood sugar before but it seems regulated enough with the water intake. I eat real food just very clean.... Organic. Meat and potatoes, rice and chicken....boiled eggs and kipper snacks, avacodos, are my go-to snack....regular dinner, sandwich lunch, breakfast smoothies and afternoon shakes....alot of grains, anything like granola bars love them.... It's just the way I eat now food is a necessity not an enjoyment.

I will get one though because I'd like the input to know what glucose is at and if a worry or not....what do you think? I do use it to suppress hunger pains sometimes...like when working.

 

[Smont]

The only thing I can make sense of is going hypo. If your dizzy or almost blacking out on a regular basis, like even 1x week is too often. You shouldn't regularly be feeling that way.

 

[TallyBigDog]

The only thing I can make sense of is going hypo. If your dizzy or almost blacking out on a regular basis, like even 1x week is too often. You shouldn't regularly be feeling that way.

It's not regular, just happens immediately if I don't keep up with consumption/calories...like metabolism on FIRE... I raise calorie burn at work it's hits I eat I'm good. What is this "hypo" you speak of?

 

[Smont]

It's not regular, just happens immediately if I don't keep up with consumption/calories...like metabolism on FIRE... I raise calorie burn at work it's hits I eat I'm good. What is this "hypo" you speak of?

Hypoglycemic, low bloodsugar

 

[Smont]

It's not regular, just happens immediately if I don't keep up with consumption/calories...like metabolism on FIRE... I raise calorie burn at work it's hits I eat I'm good. What is this "hypo" you speak of?

If it happens immediately then it's a somewhat regular occurrence, there is nothing normal or ok about what your experiencing. If someone on one of my diets told me they were experiencing what your experiencing I would immediately have them start monitoring there glucose and feed them accordingly. It'd very likely your in a self induced dangerously unhealthy state. Staying below 6% bf for extended periods of time is dangerous


I don't really feel comfortable continuing this conversation because I think your gonna hurt yourself

 

[TallyBigDog]

Hypoglycemic, low bloodsugar

It's more like a hunger pain and nauseousness from not eating... The second I do it's gone the first bite. It's like there's no fat for my body to get energy from when needed.....so I must consume. Not really a "blackout" thing bad form of expression....although if I don't eat it will put me on my ass.

I will get a glucose tester....I consume.more than I ever did when I was heavier...it just runs right threw me now.

 

[TallyBigDog]

If it happens immediately then it's a somewhat regular occurrence, there is nothing normal or ok about what your experiencing. If someone on one of my diets told me they were experiencing what your experiencing I would immediately have them start monitoring there glucose and feed them accordingly. It'd very likely your in a self induced dangerously unhealthy state. Staying below 6% bf for extended periods of time is dangerous


I don't really feel comfortable continuing this conversation because I think your gonna hurt yourself

Let me be more clear....when I go hours without eating and I forget because I am busy ASF at work I will be reminded. I typically eat every 2-3hrs.....if I stretch beyond my normal eating pattern my body knows and will tell me. It is self induced not out the blue and random.

 

[Smont]

Hunger pain and nausea is not uncommon on a very low cal diet or when you have very low bodyfat. But almost blacking out is not normal.

That hunger and nausea is very likely low bloodsugar. The food you eat plays a significant role in bloodsugar.

It's somewhat normal for a bodybuilder or athlete to experience the hunger and nausea in the final weeks of contest prep, or a fighter cutting weight hard going into a fight. But in your normal day to day life it shouldn't be happening. Your starving yourself, and even without knowing your diet/calories, I don't need to know. It takes a starvation diet to maintain sub6% bf for extended periods of time.

A healthy bf is 15% give or take a few

A fit athlete or BB might sport 10% year round, the Bodybuilder will obviously cut for contest prep to 4-5% but it's temporary.

Have someone snap a couple pictures first thing in the morning, standing relaxed from the front and back. Just stand normal with your hands at your sides so we can get a accurate idea of bf%

Also, what's your daily calorie intake, ots obviously low but how low?

 

[Dominus]

Seems like I've been posting this on a lot of threads these days but Smont is absolutely right (about the health damage of staying anywhere near 5% bf and about how concerned you should be about your symptoms). If this were me or a friend I was coaching, I'd relax and let go of such strict control with the low calorie diet, PCT 10% above your actual maintenance calories right now, see if all those symptoms improve, and find a good doctor who you can be honest about AAS use with, if you don't already have one.

Strong agree. Being 5% is miserable in my opinion. The last time I was there was on stage at southern states 2004

 

[TallyBigDog]

Hunger pain and nausea is not uncommon on a very low cal diet or when you have very low bodyfat. But almost blacking out is not normal.

That hunger and nausea is very likely low bloodsugar. The food you eat plays a significant role in bloodsugar.

It's somewhat normal for a bodybuilder or athlete to experience the hunger and nausea in the final weeks of contest prep, or a fighter cutting weight hard going into a fight. But in your normal day to day life it shouldn't be happening. Your starving yourself, and even without knowing your diet/calories, I don't need to know. It takes a starvation diet to maintain sub6% bf for extended periods of time.

A healthy bf is 15% give or take a few

A fit athlete or BB might sport 10% year round, the Bodybuilder will obviously cut for contest prep to 4-5% but it's temporary.

Have someone snap a couple pictures first thing in the morning, standing relaxed from the front and back. Just stand normal with your hands at your sides so we can get a accurate idea of bf%

Also, what's your daily calorie intake, ots obviously low but how low?

I consume an immediate breakfast smoothie in a.m. (spinach, blueberries, yogurt, banana, scoop protein, it really varies but along these lines) not long after some type of sandwich as of lately it's been "BLT's" actually use spinach instead and add jalapenos sometimes I'll take it to work with me if running out door plus my lunch sandwich (Turkey or ham couple boiled eggs)... Sometime late afternoon typically will drink my protein shake.... Dinners usually done when I get home.....regular stuff but nothing unhealthy my wife cooks every night just about and 5days a week typically a salad with it. Around 10pm I usually go on a grain munchies (couple protein bars, bowel of cereal (only eat the healthier stuff that doesn't taste too good, no Marshmello lol) usually add raisins or some type fruit like strawberries or or banana. Some nights I'll mix up another shake of casein protein right before lay down.

I usually stay within the 3000-3500 range, but there are days 2500....seriously though that's my consumption on daily basis and like I said if miss it than body will tell me....

Breakfast shake
early morn food
lunch sandwich
afternoon snack (eggs/kippers)
Late afternoon/early evening shake
Normal dinner
Evening snack
Before bed shake


Appreciate your input

 

[TallyBigDog]

Strong agree. Being 5% is miserable in my opinion. The last time I was there was on stage at southern states 2004

I'm 42....been lifting on/off most my life was very serious about it all from 19-27....always been into it but a few years ago decided to go different way and cut all fat first then bulk I mean I always been 190+ on average too 210... -230 heaviest.... I honestly didn't expect to spend 3yrs to get to where I am but a hiccup 18mo ago extended that time (had a major knee injury).....at my age I know if I don't do it now I never will; I want to compete Atleast 1 time.

I'm going the other way now but slowly and that's why I'm here to seek the advice of you guys.....I do know never in my life have I had the physique I do now, it's literally been about diet and constant physical activity...it feels good when guys half your age you put to shame when the shirt comes off or when at beach and most everyone looks sloppy.

 

[TallyBigDog]

Hunger pain and nausea is not uncommon on a very low cal diet or when you have very low bodyfat. But almost blacking out is not normal.

That hunger and nausea is very likely low bloodsugar. The food you eat plays a significant role in bloodsugar.

It's somewhat normal for a bodybuilder or athlete to experience the hunger and nausea in the final weeks of contest prep, or a fighter cutting weight hard going into a fight. But in your normal day to day life it shouldn't be happening. Your starving yourself, and even without knowing your diet/calories, I don't need to know. It takes a starvation diet to maintain sub6% bf for extended periods of time.

A healthy bf is 15% give or take a few

A fit athlete or BB might sport 10% year round, the Bodybuilder will obviously cut for contest prep to 4-5% but it's temporary.

Have someone snap a couple pictures first thing in the morning, standing relaxed from the front and back. Just stand normal with your hands at your sides so we can get a accurate idea of bf%

Also, what's your daily calorie intake, ots obviously low but how low?

One other thing I wanted to mention SMONT is that, that diet I listed is what it's been the last month or so....it was similar before but just less, like literally I was probably on 1500 calories....1 meal a day at nights amd something small in mornings....along with protein shakes and protein bars....coffee to suppress. There's still the coffee going on but I force myself to eat now...and stopped paying such close attention to detail instead just stay away from anything premade or in a box or is obviously not good.

 

[composner]

One other thing I wanted to mention SMONT is that, that diet I listed is what it's been the last month or so....it was similar before but just less, like literally I was probably on 1500 calories....1 meal a day at nights amd something small in mornings....along with protein shakes and protein bars....coffee to suppress. There's still the coffee going on but I force myself to eat now...and stopped paying such close attention to detail instead just stay away from anything premade or in a box or is obviously not good.

1500 for your stats and activity level is just nuts man

 

[TallyBigDog]

I feel like I need to come over to your place and do my best impression of my grandmother. "You're looking so thin darling, have some more stew"

I feel like I need to come over to your place and do my best impression of my grandmother. "You're looking so thin darling, have some more stew"

1500 for your stats and activity level is just nuts man

 

[Dominus]

I'm 42....been lifting on/off most my life was very serious about it all from 19-27....always been into it but a few years ago decided to go different way and cut all fat first then bulk I mean I always been 190+ on average too 210... -230 heaviest.... I honestly didn't expect to spend 3yrs to get to where I am but a hiccup 18mo ago extended that time (had a major knee injury).....at my age I know if I don't do it now I never will; I want to compete Atleast 1 time.

I'm going the other way now but slowly and that's why I'm here to seek the advice of you guys.....I do know never in my life have I had the physique I do now, it's literally been about diet and constant physical activity...it feels good when guys half your age you put to shame when the shirt comes off or when at beach and most everyone looks sloppy.

Is this Patrick Bateman?

 

[TallyBigDog]

Is this Patrick Bateman?

Funny! But no....I'm real bro, no reason to waste time portraying anything false or to make stuff up. Coming here with honest history, interest, and what experience I do have all be it limited, that's why here.

Appreciate your input