Sust and Test P?

[spirall08]

I've done a couple of Sustanon cycles in the past. Knowing that it takes a long time to clear before starting PCT (about 21 days).

Question: could you take Test P for the 3 weeks while waiting for the sust to clear?
Thinking 100mg EOD to keep your test levels even. Stopping around day 18, and starting PCT on day 21.

Thoughts? Good idea or bad?

 

[KvanH]

Using Prop for the last weeks of a cycle while the other ester(s) clear is a somewhat common approach. Just keep the weekly amount of the Prop same or higher, than you were pinning the Sust. I think the Sust takes longer to clear, than 3 weeks though.

 

[spirall08]

Using Prop for the last weeks of a cycle while the other ester(s) clear is a somewhat common approach. Just keep the weekly amount of the Prop same or higher, than you were pinning the Sust. I think the Sust takes longer to clear, than 3 weeks though.

Sust 500mg/wk. The Test P comes in 100mg dose. Could I get away with 1cc EOD?

Also, how many days after Test P to start PCT?

 

[Whisky]

Using Prop for the last weeks of a cycle while the other ester(s) clear is a somewhat common approach. Just keep the weekly amount of the Prop same or higher, than you were pinning the Sust. I think the Sust takes longer to clear, than 3 weeks though.

yeah exactly, the decanoate ester in sust has a half life around 15 days so in reality your looking at a min 60 days to start pct (standard is 5 half lives to eliminate completely which would be 75 days).

sust is a horrible choice for anyone who isn’t on trt or blasting and cruising

 

[Ironpirate]

I would just do 50-75mg ed of prop for 8 weeks and ditch the sust. I love prop especially with msten, epi, or Winny. Decanoate is dangerous for those of us that cycle.

 

[spirall08]

I would just do 50-75mg ed of prop for 8 weeks and ditch the sust. I love prop especially with msten, epi, or Winny. Decanoate is dangerous for those of us that cycle.

I'm considering switching to prop but not pinning everyday. If i pinned EOD whats the dose? 150mg?

 

[Ironpirate]

I'm considering switching to prop but not pinning everyday. If i pinned EOD whats the dose? 150mg?

Sure, lots of people do 100-150mg eod I just prefer daily.

 

[spirall08]

Sure, lots of people do 100-150mg eod I just prefer daily.

Also, is it true that sides are more harsh with prop? More PIP, etc?

 

[Ironpirate]

Also, is it true that sides are more harsh with prop? More PIP, etc?

No, that will depend on quality and strength of concentration. Ed will have less sides than eod especially blood pressure and aromatization.

 

[Hyde]

You may experience more PIP with prop though. That’s what I have always heard and it’s kept me away.

If you want to take ~500mg per week, 100mg eod is only 350mg/wk. 150mg eod would be 525mg.

 

[spirall08]

You may experience more PIP with prop though. That’s what I have always heard and it’s kept me away.

Yea thats why I was thinking of only running Prop for the last month of the cycle instead of the whole thing. It would be my first time so not sure what to expect.

 

[Hyde]

Yea thats why I was thinking of only running Prop for the last month of the cycle instead of the whole thing. It would be my first time so not sure what to expect.

I’d say you can probably gut out whatever for a few weeks, so that’s a good way to try prop out without much risk.

BUT, as mentioned, test decanoate found in Sustanon makes it a poor choice if you only want to start PCT 3 weeks after the last shot - choose test enanthate or cypionate for that. Then you can run a vial of prop the last few weeks in escalating dosage while the test e or c tapers off.

 

[spirall08]

I’d say you can probably gut out whatever for a few weeks, so that’s a good way to try prop out without much risk.

BUT, as mentioned, test decanoate found in Sustanon makes it a poor choice if you only want to start PCT 3 weeks after the last shot - choose test enanthate or cypionate for that. Then you can run a vial of prop the last few weeks in escalating dosage while the test e or c tapers off.

Escalating dosage... Didn't think of this. Assuming 4 weeks of Prop, how would you suggest dosing?
week1 of prop: 50mg eod
week 2: 100mg eod
week 3 and 4: 150mg eod?

 

[Hyde]

Escalating dosage... Didn't think of this. Assuming 4 weeks of Prop, how would you suggest dosing?
week1 of prop: 50mg eod
week 2: 100mg eod
week 3 and 4: 150mg eod?

Are you going to use test e/c, or sustanon? I mean if you haven’t bought the gear yet, use E or C.

If you use those you need to start 3 weeks after last shot. If you use Sustanon you probably need to wait 5-6.

 

[spirall08]

Are you going to use test e/c, or sustanon? I mean if you haven’t bought the gear yet, use E or C.

If you use those you need to start 3 weeks after last shot. If you use Sustanon you probably need to wait 5-6.

Ok. Still figuring that out. Either way, is the dosing protocol for Prop at the end good? Start at 50 eod, ramp up to 150?

 

[Hyde]

Well that protocol is 1 week too long if using e or c and 1 week too short if using Sustanon lol

 

[spirall08]

Well that protocol is 1 week too long if using e or c and 1 week too short if using Sustanon lol

Fair. Lets go w Sust and 5 weeks of prop.

 

[Hyde]

Fair. Lets go w Sust and 5 weeks of prop.

You need to probably look at the total weekly test dosage you want in the last week, then work backwards from there in your dosing.

Also consider that a long cycle with a flat dosage (like 500mg all the way through for 12+ weeks) isn’t going to be very exciting for gains. I mean you will stop seeing big changes by 8 weeks in at the same dosage.

 

[spirall08]

You need to probably look at the total weekly test dosage you want in the last week, then work backwards from there in your dosing.

Also consider that a long cycle with a flat dosage (like 500mg all the way through for 12+ weeks) isn’t going to be very exciting for gains. I mean you will stop seeing big changes by 8 weeks in at the same dosage.

Do people actually ramp up their Test dosage throughout a cycle? All my years reading and researching I've never seen anyone mention that. Usually its one set dose of Test throughout (adding orals or other injectables). Genuine question what do ramped up Test cycles look like?

 

[Hyde]

Do people actually ramp up their Test dosage throughout a cycle? All my years reading and researching I've never seen anyone mention that. Usually its one set dose of Test throughout (adding orals or other injectables). Genuine question what do ramped up Test cycles look like?

If you want to keep promoting more growth as your body adapts, you need to increase dosage or rotate to new and ideally stronger compounds until the blast ends and you give your body a rest and chance to re-sensitize. Or both. This is extremely common.

The reason you see solo test cycles at a static dosage is because some people don’t really understand that. As you get bigger in a cycle people understand that calories must go up, load on the bar or total training volume goes up, but some guys fail to realize new androgen receptors are being created with new muscle tissue added and therefore the threshold of drugs needed to continue progress creeps up as well. Then they stall out and wonder why.

 

[spirall08]

If you want to keep promoting more growth as your body adapts, you need to increase dosage or rotate to new and ideally stronger compounds until the blast ends and you give your body a rest and chance to re-sensitize. Or both. This is extremely common.

The reason you see solo test cycles at a static dosage is because some people don’t really understand that. As you get bigger in a cycle people understand that calories must go up, load on the bar or total training volume goes up, but some guys fail to realize new androgen receptors are being created with new muscle tissue added and therefore the threshold of drugs needed to continue progress creeps up as well. Then they stall out and wonder why.

Gotcha. So lets take a basic Test E cycle at 500mg/wk for 12 weeks (very basic).

Are you saying you would start at 500mg/wk, ramp up to 625mg/wk (2.5cc's), and for the last 4 weeks bump up to 750mg/wk? Is that the gist of it?

 

[Ironpirate]

Most people just start or end with 4-6 weeks of an oral, or you can stack oils or even gh or mk. Ramping up just test is lame.

Add mast or npp and lower test is good but ramping test is something you should never have to do again unless adding new drugs because your first cycle should have been test only to discover what is your mg limit without the need for ai or bp meds. Prop is a great solo cycle ed not eod and stop buying sust.

 

[Hyde]

Gotcha. So lets take a basic Test E cycle at 500mg/wk for 12 weeks (very basic).

Are you saying you would start at 500mg/wk, ramp up to 625mg/wk (2.5cc's), and for the last 4 weeks bump up to 750mg/wk? Is that the gist of it?

So instead of test e for 500mg all 12 weeks, I would do 3 weeks each of 400,500,600. Super simple modification that helps keep things moving with same total drug exposure & cycle length.

I would also personally add an oral weeks 11 & 12, then raise the oral dose weeks 13 & 14 while the enanthate oil clears. Then it’s PCT.

Most people just start or end with 4-6 weeks of an oral, or you can stack oils or even gh or mk. Ramping up just test is lame.

Add mast or npp and lower test is good but ramping test is something you should never have to do again unless adding new drugs because your first cycle should have been test only to discover what is your mg limit without the need for ai or bp meds. Prop is a great solo cycle ed not eod and stop buying sust.

I agree with some of this, but must respectfully disagree with the AI & BP stuff (and it’s alright for us to have different opinions). I can understand some guys not wanting to use an AI, but that’s going to mandate a fairly low amount of test for many users. And as far as BP meds, adding most any gear will eventually require BP meds when you reach a certain threshold.

So in this scenario, maybe Joe Blow can only run 250mg of test with no AI unless he runs Masteron at 1:1 ratio with it. So he does, and gets up to 500mg each but now has high BP even in light of regular LISS, a mindful diet and not being fat. Does he just never take more gear? That’s totally goal driven by the individual, including deciding how fat they are willing to be & how much they should take. I mean bodybuilding is one thing, but a guy trying to be a heavyweight powerlifter will be substantially higher bf generally and is going to take whatever makes sense for that sport.

I encourage folks to run their estrogen as high as they can tolerate for general muscle and strength, but some AI can still make sense. And I encourage folks to try to keep their health first, but sometimes that can mean BP meds are still the right option. The worst thing one can do is let BP run high and kill your kidneys. That is the silent killer.

 

[spirall08]

I encourage folks to run their estrogen as high as they can tolerate for general muscle and strength, but some AI can still make sense. And I encourage folks to try to keep their health first, but sometimes that can mean BP meds are still the right option. The worst thing one can do is let BP run high and kill your kidneys. That is the silent killer.

Aside from some herbs (like cycle assist, hawthorne berry), what else do you suggest for BP support?

 

[Hyde]

Aside from some herbs (like cycle assist, hawthorne berry), what else do you suggest for BP support?

Best herbal things I have found is grape seed extract & pine bark extract twice a day, as well as Carditone by Ayush Herbs on Amazon (white bottle) for a bit stronger support.

Keeping water under control is helpful, so managing estrogen if it’s getting high with stuff like boron, zinc, DIM, calcium d-glucorate, or of course trusty AIs like Exemestane or Anastrazole, as well as eating enough potassium for your sodium intake (greens, potatoes, dates, salmon, salt-substitute, etc). Herbal diuretic teas and dandelion, etc can help here too (but don’t overdo them - you are better off addressing the underlying cause).

After that if you need more lowering, you are probably looking at script drugs like PDE5 inhibitors like Tadalafil, ARBs like Telmisartan, Beta Blockers like Nebivolol, ACE inhibitors like Lisinopril.

Also, do your cardio.