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Supplements Which Dont Work

shurushuru

New member
I am to propose PES Erase pro.I used it for 3months.Got nothing out of it except painfull knees.Unless someone provides peer reviewed data about its effectiveness
 
shurushuru said:
I am to propose PES Erase pro.I used it for 3months.Got nothing out of it except painfull knees.Unless someone provides peer reviewed data about its effectiveness
Click to expand...

What exactly was it that you were expecting from lowered estrogen levels? Depending on your goals, a complimentary diet and training needs to be in place. You can not out-supplement a crappy diet and/or training.
 
I'm using OG Erase now and it seems to be working just fine for me, everyone has different experiences.
 
Supplements are used to "supplement" that which you can not get in a normal diet. If you weren't getting any effects without the erase the erase wouldn't change that. Right now I'm cutting natty and have continually lost weight, now I'm adding in arimistane and natty test boosters to help push it over the edge. I will still be getting results, bare minimum what I got before I added it in, and the arimistane will only help, plus I love DAA lol
 
HereToStudy said:
It isn't really a supplement, it is an AI. Erase has more than proved itself at this point.
Click to expand...


guess who's back, back again!

I have used Erase and Erase Pro. 3 months on Erase Pro is too much IMO. Also, NO supplement will work if your diet and training is not geared towards your goals. Like, if you want to cut but you eat 4k cals a day no cardio then taking Erase Pro is pointless.
 
R1balla said:
guess who's back, back again!

I have used Erase and Erase Pro. 3 months on Erase Pro is too much IMO. Also, NO supplement will work if your diet and training is not geared towards your goals. Like, if you want to cut but you eat 4k cals a day no cardio then taking Erase Pro is pointless.
Click to expand...

Nice to see you R1!
 
The problem is that 95% of the supplements being sold today have little or no in vivo testing. Peer review data is subjective by nature. Very few of the supplements that I have tried over the years (and they are countless) deliver as advertised and most don't deliver at all. I have had reasonably good results from most PH's. Fat loss products and many AI's are either poorly supported or underdosed. Many testosterone boosters will raise testosterone to some degree but usually not enough to result in muscular gains. Over the years, I have found a handful of products that work but the vast majority are bogus. I used to spend thusands of dollars a year on supplements, now I spend very little. However, I am forever hopeful.
 
BBB said:
The problem is that 95% of the supplements being sold today have little or no in vivo testing. Peer review data is subjective by nature. Very few of the supplements that I have tried over the years (and they are countless) deliver as advertised and most don't deliver at all. I have had reasonably good results from most PH's. Fat loss products and many AI's are either poorly supported or underdosed. Many testosterone boosters will raise testosterone to some degree but usually not enough to result in muscular gains. Over the years, I have found a handful of products that work but the vast majority are bogus. I used to spend thusands of dollars a year on supplements, now I spend very little. However, I am forever hopeful.
Click to expand...

Thanks BBB so which ones have you found effective and the ones downright worst of money?
 
Where are you BDCC you promised to defend PES with some hopefully unrefutable data/literature. Before you do please explain if you any association eith PESE
 
shurushuru said:
Where are you BDCC you promised to defend PES with some hopefully unrefutable data/literature. Before you do please explain if you any association eith PESE
Click to expand...

Why the hell would you run Erase for 3 months straight? You're supposed to take breaks.
If you noticed sore knees you either were noticing the effects of an AI or you were spending too much time on your knees.

Did u lift at all while taking it?
What was your diet like?
Can we see your training and diet layout?
Did you stack any test boosting supplements while on it?
Do you regularly consume alcohol?
 
I said I would contribute, yes.

If you are looking for in vivo, double blind, crossover studies for all of the supplements you take you will be diappointed.

lol at asking me to declare my position with PES. I have worked for PES for several years and it is in my signature and noticeable in my profile picture.

The reason I said you are welcome to PM me and I didn't think you were going to get the answers you were looking for was because AM is an intelligent crowd. Consumers here know the level of research which goes into supplement releases and they know the level of data you are looking for simply isn't available for many supplements. :)
 
kissdadookie said:
You lie. First time I've seen that profile picture as well as the sig. :P
Click to expand...

Damn, I thought I was in half decent shape.

Are you saying my flexed back isn't memorable?


Brb, phoning my psychiatrist again.
 
Wow. This guy is dumber than I am haha
His post is like going into a biker bar a yelling "bikers are gay haha"
 
bdcc said:
I said I would contribute, yes.

If you are looking for in vivo, double blind, crossover studies for all of the supplements you take you will be diappointed.

lol at asking me to declare my position with PES. I have worked for PES for several years and it is in my signature and noticeable in my profile picture.

The reason I said you are welcome to PM me and I didn't think you were going to get the answers you were looking for was because AM is an intelligent crowd. Consumers here know the level of research which goes into supplement releases and they know the level of data you are looking for simply isn't available for many supplements. :)
Click to expand...

Dont patronise the people.Noone said they aint intelligent. ALL I asked for us data to back your claims.Saying I quote" AM is an intelligent crowd. Consumers here know the level of research which goes into supplement releases and they know the level of data you are looking for simply isn't available for many supplements." Does not in any way answers the question.And I hope people see through your not so clever way of keeping them quite.Facts are stubborn someone said
 
shurushuru said:
Dont patronise the people.Noone said they aint intelligent. ALL I asked for us data to back your claims.Saying I quote" AM is an intelligent crowd. Consumers here know the level of research which goes into supplement releases and they know the level of data you are looking for simply isn't available for many supplements." Does not in any way answers the question.And I hope people see through your not so clever way of keeping them quite.Facts are stubborn someone said
Click to expand...

Here's the problem, myself and someone else on this thread essentially asked you a simple question: What were you expecting from Erase? You have yet to answer this question or provide information on your diet and training.

Like I said earlier, you CAN NOT out-supplement a crappy diet/training.
 
macdady said:
Sure you can haha... well not with anything legal
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Kind of but not really. You still have to deal with the laws of thermodynamics (calories in vs calories expended), providing the proper substrates (nutrition), and providing the proper stimulus (exercise).
 
kissdadookie said:
Here's the problem, myself and someone else on this thread essentially asked you a simple question: What were you expecting from Erase? You have yet to answer this question or provide information on your diet and training.

Like I said earlier, you CAN NOT out-supplement a crappy diet/training.
Click to expand...

I train 4 days a week.my diet quite good.i have experimented with various supplements but my basic stack is
1.whey
2.creatine
3bcaa
3.fish oil
4.multi vitamin
5.glutamine
At the moment I have added alphamine daa to my stake.i have erase before for 3 months. Of course I was taking a break in between.i am fairly decent lifter deadlift 180kg bench 130kg squat 150kg
I only drink one or two beers only weekends and iam 45years old
 
kissdadookie said:
Kind of but not really. You still have to deal with the laws of thermodynamics (calories in vs calories expended), providing the proper substrates (nutrition), and providing the proper stimulus (exercise).
Click to expand...

Well yeah but assuming he does at least some kind of exercise then there's a few things that can fight bad diet and routine... granted as soon as you stop any of them you'll drop right back to where you were though lol
(I'm just arguing for fun here lol I'm not being serious in any for right now)
 
By the alphamine is fairly good.it kills the hunger pangs and gives the motivation. So there is nothing perdonal against PES.its just that PES erase pro doesnt work
 
shurushuru said:
I train 4 days a week.my diet quite good.i have experimented with various supplements but my basic stack is
1.whey
2.creatine
3bcaa
3.fish oil
4.multi vitamin
5.glutamine
At the moment I have added alphamine daa to my stake.i have erase before for 3 months. Of course I was taking a break in between.i am fairly decent lifter deadlift 180kg bench 130kg squat 150kg
I only drink one or two beers only weekends and iam 45years old
Click to expand...

We still know nothing about your diet and goals here. All you are telling us is that you are old and decently strong.

Again, WHAT WERE YOU EXPECTING FROM ERASE?!? Were you expecting weight loss? If so, you need to use Erase WITH a caloric deficit. Were you expecting to get stronger? AI's IMO don't really give you much in terms of strength gains. Are you trying to bulk and expecting not to get really fat from the bulk? If so, Erase does help but if you're taking in WAY too many calories on your bulk, you're STILL going to see significant fat gain.

So, what exactly were you expecting from Erase?

macdady said:
Well yeah but assuming he does at least some kind of exercise then there's a few things that can fight bad diet and routine... granted as soon as you stop any of them you'll drop right back to where you were though lol
(I'm just arguing for fun here lol I'm not being serious in any for right now)
Click to expand...

LuLz.
 
Cardio on non lifting days.just to brag some of the twenty something guys in my gym I put them to shame.just me being modest
 
shurushuru said:
By the alphamine is fairly good.it kills the hunger pangs and gives the motivation. So there is nothing perdonal against PES.its just that PES erase pro doesnt work
Click to expand...

There have been numerous people who have stated how effective EPro is. It is one of the most popular supplements on this forum and many other places.

Of course certain supplements work for some and then don't for others. Obviously it didn't work for you (weird) but to say it doesn't work is false.
 
shurushuru said:
Cardio on non lifting days.just to brag some of the twenty something guys in my gym I put them to shame.just me being modest
Click to expand...

Again, what the heck were you expecting Erase to do? If you were expecting Erase to be a magic pill in which without changes anywhere else, to magically work miracles, Erase is not going to do that for you. Erase essentially helps with making other things work better. If you are CUTTING, it makes your cut easier. If you are BULKING, it can help you stay leaner on your bulk (but again, depends on how much you are taking in with your calories, up to a certain point, too many calories is just too many calories). The stuff is an AI, look up what AI's are and how estrogen effects the body.
 
kbayne said:
There have been numerous people who have stated how effective EPro is. It is one of the most popular supplements on this forum and many other places.

Of course certain supplements work for some and then don't for others. Obviously it didn't work for you (weird) but to say it doesn't work is false.
Click to expand...
I think erase is more for aesthetics than anything else (shedding water weight and hardening muscle) and if you don't fit into a certain criteria then its not going to work like magic like it does for a lot of people... just my .02
 
shurushuru said:
I am to propose PES Erase pro.I used it for 3months.Got nothing out of it except painfull knees.Unless someone provides peer reviewed data about its effectiveness
Click to expand...

Painful joints is a common effect that the Erase active and its action elicit.

Peer reviewed data is not cheap and expecting it for every supplement is unreasonable and unrealistic.

It is a shame Erase didn't work the way you intended it to but there are many confounders that could be at play.
 
Jiigzz said:
Painful joints is a common effect that the Erase active and its action elicit.

Peer reviewed data is not cheap and expecting it for every supplement is unreasonable and unrealistic.

It is a shame Erase didn't work the way you intended it to but there are many confounders that could be at play.
Click to expand...
Lol if this guy had just said "erase pro didn't work for me" instead of "erase pro doesn't work" all this flaming could have been avoided
 
Erase and erase pro never did anything for me either. That's not to say they aren't great products for other people. Shurushuru, I think what people have a problem with is that it sounded like you were saying erase pro doesn't work, when you should have said, "Erase pro doesn't work for me.". If it doesn't work, than just stop taking it or don't take it again. No need to waste time going into details about diet and training in my opinion.
 
shurushuru said:
Thanks BBB so which ones have you found effective and the ones downright worst of money?
Click to expand...

Creatine is good for strength.
Formestane is the best AI ever.
Diesel Test Pro is the best test booster I have found to date.
Test Force 2 is the only DAA that does anything for me. Mild hardening effect.
Standardize forskolin lowers my systolic BP about 10 points and has other health benefits as well.
There a lot of good preworkout products. I personally like Prodgy or Game Day the best. Good energy no jitters and nice focus.
Beta Alanine and COP are good for endurance.
Taco 8 was the best vitamin E supplement on the market. I wish someone would bring it back.
I really don't like USP labs but Compound 20 leaned me out quite a bit. But the stuff is overpriced.
Ostarine is good for leaning out.
S4 is also good for leaning but affects M1 receptors throughout the body so I won't use it anymore.
I thought Primordial Performance was the best supplement company in the industry. But alas their gone.
As far as PH's I respond best to Tren. Great hardening and size gains. It does shut me down hard. I run formestane and DTP throughtout the cycle.
I'm sure there are others but those are ones I can think out off the top of my head. In general I try to stay with products that have good in vivo testing backing them.
 
lexmuscle said:
I have two separate blood tests showing Erase did not touch my e2 level. Even at 3-4 pills/day.
Click to expand...
Maybe it is some confounders at play though.
 
lexmuscle said:
I have two separate blood tests showing Erase did not touch my e2 level. Even at 3-4 pills/day.
Click to expand...
I've seen at least 4 people say that and then never produce anything other than saying those exact words lol.... not saying your lying I'm just saying prove it lol
 
As BD mentioned, if you're looking for peer reviewed ingredients/supplements, you'll be sorely disappointed. While there are a handful of studies conducted on certain ingredients, those are few and far between.

Closest you'd come to that, is by examining a company's track record, of which, PES has a tremendous one. I too make purchase decisions based on the available science behind a product. PES is one of the few companies that formulate with that type of approach in mind vs just hype or clever marketing. Alphamine is and remains a home run product, provided you use it correctly and your diet is on point, along with a consistent program. It worked wonders for me, as did Erase Pro which I favored heavily over its predecessor, and is another home run product in its category. Anabeta, again...great results, 4lbs mass in a month for a natty product is exceptional to me, personally. Alpha T2 - is another great product because it's effective and stackable with other things. Obviously, not all products work for the same for everyone. I liked Triazole way better than the original Erase. Erase Pro, however, is on par with Triazole in my opinion. Anyway, just my two cents. :)
 
BBB said:
Creatine is good for strength.
Formestane is the best AI ever.
Diesel Test Pro is the best test booster I have found to date.
Test Force 2 is the only DAA that does anything for me. Mild hardening effect.
Standardize forskolin lowers my systolic BP about 10 points and has other health benefits as well.
There a lot of good preworkout products. I personally like Prodgy or Game Day the best. Good energy no jitters and nice focus.
Beta Alanine and COP are good for endurance.
Taco 8 was the best vitamin E supplement on the market. I wish someone would bring it back.
I really don't like USP labs but Compound 20 leaned me out quite a bit. But the stuff is overpriced.
Ostarine is good for leaning out.
S4 is also good for leaning but affects M1 receptors throughout the body so I won't use it anymore.
I thought Primordial Performance was the best supplement company in the industry. But alas their gone.
As far as PH's I respond best to Tren. Great hardening and size gains. It does shut me down hard. I run formestane and DTP throughtout the cycle.
I'm sure there are others but those are ones I can think out off the top of my head. In general I try to stay with products that have good in vivo testing backing them.
Click to expand...


What do you use in place of Toco 8 now?
 
shurushuru said:
PES products are overhyped.Erase pro which I have used for 3 months is really nothing to write home about. It doesnt work.all you get is extremely sore knees . Those who think it work show us a link of independent research to bsck your claims . for most people here its just a believe in your heads,I am sorry to say.I have also used alphamine.its a slightly better product probably because of only one ingredient which has been scientifically proven to work :caffeine
Click to expand...

bdcc said:
If you want to discuss the literature on our products please feel free to PM me.

I would prefer not to derail the thread and I get the impression some of the replies you will receive will be less than polite. :)

Ben
Click to expand...

shurushuru said:
Bdcc thanks for the reply and offer for literature which supports the effectiveness of your products.i am waitingvfor that either inbox or better still if post it here for the better of everyone . Remember you peer reviewed is good enough
As for your comments of unkind comments I dont think they are warranted because my comments are not driven by malice but for the good of everyone
Thank you
Click to expand...

bdcc said:
Sure. Start a new thread and I will contribute.
Click to expand...

-- new thread --

shurushuru said:
I am to propose PES Erase pro.I used it for 3months.Got nothing out of it except painfull knees.Unless someone provides peer reviewed data about its effectiveness
Click to expand...

shurushuru said:
Where are you BDCC you promised to defend PES with some hopefully unrefutable data/literature. Before you do please explain if you any association eith PESE
Click to expand...

bdcc said:
I said I would contribute, yes.

If you are looking for in vivo, double blind, crossover studies for all of the supplements you take you will be diappointed.

lol at asking me to declare my position with PES. I have worked for PES for several years and it is in my signature and noticeable in my profile picture.

The reason I said you are welcome to PM me and I didn't think you were going to get the answers you were looking for was because AM is an intelligent crowd. Consumers here know the level of research which goes into supplement releases and they know the level of data you are looking for simply isn't available for many supplements.
Click to expand...

shurushuru said:
Dont patronise the people.Noone said they aint intelligent. ALL I asked for us data to back your claims.Saying I quote" AM is an intelligent crowd. Consumers here know the level of research which goes into supplement releases and they know the level of data you are looking for simply isn't available for many supplements." Does not in any way answers the question.And I hope people see through your not so clever way of keeping them quite.Facts are stubborn someone said
Click to expand...

I pride myself on being polite and courteous on the forums. You asked a question in a hostile manner and instead of ignoring you or arguing your point I welcomed you to discuss them so please don't be hostile towards me in return. I am more than welcome to discuss

I said that AM customers are an intelligent crowd because I knew a lot of people would pick holes in what you said. I did not patronise anyone, I was just making a point because I know members of the forum well.

JD261985 said:
Lol at peer reviewed data
Click to expand...

FL3X MAGNUM said:
Why the hell would you run Erase for 3 months straight? You're supposed to take breaks.
If you noticed sore knees you either were noticing the effects of an AI or you were spending too much time on your knees.

Did u lift at all while taking it?
What was your diet like?
Can we see your training and diet layout?
Did you stack any test boosting supplements while on it?
Do you regularly consume alcohol?
Click to expand...

kissdadookie said:
What exactly was it that you were expecting from lowered estrogen levels? Depending on your goals, a complimentary diet and training needs to be in place. You can not out-supplement a crappy diet and/or training.
Click to expand...

mtinsideout said:
I'm using OG Erase now and it seems to be working just fine for me, everyone has different experiences.
Click to expand...

crispycrown said:
Supplements are used to "supplement" that which you can not get in a normal diet. If you weren't getting any effects without the erase the erase wouldn't change that. Right now I'm cutting natty and have continually lost weight, now I'm adding in arimistane and natty test boosters to help push it over the edge. I will still be getting results, bare minimum what I got before I added it in, and the arimistane will only help, plus I love DAA lol
Click to expand...

HereToStudy said:
It isn't really a supplement, it is an AI. Erase has more than proved itself at this point.
Click to expand...

kissdadookie said:
Here's the problem, myself and someone else on this thread essentially asked you a simple question: What were you expecting from Erase? You have yet to answer this question or provide information on your diet and training.

Like I said earlier, you CAN NOT out-supplement a crappy diet/training.
Click to expand...

Jiigzz said:
Painful joints is a common effect that the Erase active and its action elicit.

Peer reviewed data is not cheap and expecting it for every supplement is unreasonable and unrealistic.

It is a shame Erase didn't work the way you intended it to but there are many confounders that could be at play.
Click to expand...

So, in summary to what my point was. There is not the peer reviewed data you would like to see. We reference our write ups thoroughly so please feel free to look through the literature. If there is not enough literature or it isn't at a high enough standard for you to trust it then that is your entitlement and I have no intention of arguing with you.

Erase is a consistent top selling product for us because a lot of people enjoy the benefits from it. Yes, there are occasionally people like you who do not notice any positive benefits.

I am welcome to discuss our products objectively but I politely request that you do not direct hostility towards me in an unfair manner.

Ben
 
BBB said:
I found a liquid blend of tocopherols. I can't remember the name.
Click to expand...

I seem to remember someone posting that Eric from Primordial Performance had started a new company and was selling Toco-8 under a different brand.

I might be wrong. I have never had an interest in the product but I vaguely recollect someone saying it in one of the old FDA raid threads.
 
BBB said:
The problem is that 95% of the supplements being sold today have little or no in vivo testing. Peer review data is subjective by nature. Very few of the supplements that I have tried over the years (and they are countless) deliver as advertised and most don't deliver at all. I have had reasonably good results from most PH's. Fat loss products and many AI's are either poorly supported or underdosed. Many testosterone boosters will raise testosterone to some degree but usually not enough to result in muscular gains. Over the years, I have found a handful of products that work but the vast majority are bogus. I used to spend thusands of dollars a year on supplements, now I spend very little. However, I am forever hopeful.
Click to expand...

This is one of the most accurate posts I have ever read on this site. And I will be quite surprised if it is not deleted since it will be read by most as blasphemous.
 
SXIPro said:
This is one of the most accurate posts I have ever read on this site. And I will be quite surprised if it is not deleted since it will be read by most as blasphemous.
Click to expand...

Seriously?

You seriously think admin is going to delete a post where someone, very reasonably I might add, expresses their opinion?


Must have clicked BB.com on accident....
 
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