Super low testosterone, 21 years old, need advice..

[vorcellian]

Reposted from another forum because I was told Matrix and others on here might have better advice:

--

I've been feeling pretty crappy for the past month (low/no sex drive, inexplicable fat increase over abs, low motivation to do anything, etc), and decided to get bloodwork done. I wanted the results quickly, so I went through LabCorp/WebMD and not through a doctor. Got blood drawn three days ago, and got the results today.

Here are the issues:

Testosterone, Serum: 241 ng/dL (normal range: 249-836)
Luteinizing Hormone, Serum: 1.6 mIU/ml (normal range: 1.7-8.6)

Estradiol got tested too, as did FSH, and both were within range, though FSH was on the low end (Estradiol was 22.1 ph/ml with a range of 7.6-42.5, FSH was 3.2 mIU/ml with a range of 1.5-12.4)

And it definitely makes sense with the symptoms I've been experiencing. However, the reason I wanted to get bloodwork done originally is because I wanted to have baseline numbers in case I wanted to do a cycle in the future, but with these results there's no way I'm touching anabolics at any point soon.

The thing that's confusing is that I have never cycled anything before. No PH, no AAS, nothing at all. I've been training since I was 15, too, and was actually in the best shape of my life about a month and a half ago... but then everything went to sh*t for no discernible reason at the start of September. I lost motivation to train (even though I still pushed hard), and started gaining fat/bloat while looking noticeably worse in the mirror. No idea what caused it or why, which is what made everything so frustrating.

So.. any advice or suggestions? I'm want to get an appointment with an endocrinologist ASAP, but that might take anywhere from 4-6 weeks with how things are around here. Anything I can do while I wait? Anything I should try to avoid doing? Any advice at all from the more experienced members? I'm feeling very lost here..

And as an amendment, I haven't ever done any recreational drugs, and only drank once the first weekend I got to school (start of September). Since then haven't gone out because motivation to do so just disappeared, which would make sense now with the low testosterone levels..

 

[ambulldog]

good move. youll get much better responses over here. be patient matrix will chime in. hes the man here on trt

 

[kingdong]

Ambulldog speaks the truth. This is a good move, but I just wanna say three things.

1: Is it possible that youve been legitimately depressed since you entered college? Is it community college? When I whent to community college, I basically wasted 6.5 years, and made it too the end still with out learning how to do anything. Combind that with a group of friends that just wasnt for me, and talk about a testosterone beat down!

2: Definately talk to a doctor, but I really do reccomend DAA before any scripts. If it doesnt work then your down a few bucks, but the reason Im saying to try it because its the real deal. It actally made my balls bigger!

3: Lets combine one and two. Start DAA, then after a week or two on that try hitting up one of those frat parties. Maby smoke a little gonjfirst(if you can) to build up some courage, use your fit body to its advantage and chat up some ladies. Maby get some numbers? Whatever happens happens. Then tell me if you still feel like a low testosterone guy after that! Like I said, I felt exactly how you describe at your age and it wasnt until I fixed my life up that everything else followed, no doctors needed.

 

[mattrag]

Ambulldog speaks the truth. This is a good move, but I just wanna say three things.

1: Is it possible that youve been legitimately depressed since you entered college? Is it community college? When I whent to community college, I basically wasted 6.5 years, and made it too the end still with out learning how to do anything. Combind that with a group of friends that just wasnt for me, and talk about a testosterone beat down!

2: Definately talk to a doctor, but I really do reccomend DAA before any scripts. If it doesnt work then your down a few bucks, but the reason Im saying to try it because its the real deal. It actally made my balls bigger!

3: Lets combine one and two. Start DAA, then after a week or two on that try hitting up one of those frat parties. Maby smoke a little gonjfirst(if you can) to build up some courage, use your fit body to its advantage and chat up some ladies. Maby get some numbers? Whatever happens happens. Then tell me if you still feel like a low testosterone guy after that! Like I said, I felt exactly how you describe at your age and it wasnt until I fixed my life up that everything else followed, no doctors needed.

About #1... I must say community college... can be the worst place to end up in after high school. Motivation low, all around feeling of not going to the big university... Man.. I was there lol.
Anyhow, I'd say to keep a positive attitude and try to not get held up on eating "right", just eat what makes you feel good. Not "OMG I NEED CAKE RIGHT NOW TO FEEL GOOD", but eat the stuff that makes you feel healthy traditionally. Like if you always liked eating potatoes and meat. Try to eat more of that. Our bodies are pretty damn strong and i've seen some amazing transformations from the 19-23 age range just from basic changes.

DAA is very good, I have seen many ppl get far with DAA. But its not going to work miracles. You are going to have to figure out what's really bothering you and come out of this rut. I know you can do it, I have, many MANY times.

Good luck and please post whatever else you can.

 

[ambulldog]

well i still say in his case he needs to get his bw to an endo and get his pit checked. of course im no dr but id be willing to bet hes secondary hypogonadal.

also i wouldnt try any supplements until after seeing endo. just in case it happens to temporarily raise his lh and give a false reading on new bw if dr orders it up.

at his age his t is extremely low and lh is below bottom of scale. not a candidate, yet, for natty supp help imho

 

[vorcellian]

I don't want to touch any natural supps that can boost T before seeing an endo, because then my levels might be artificially inflated if he/she orders bloodwork again, etc.

And no re:depression and school, as this was the best start of any of my years at school so far. It's not a CC -- it's a top 10 school in the states, ha. And it's my third year here, so I know exactly how things run and where the parties are, etc etc. After the first week I've just had no motivation to go to them or really meet any girls or anything.

On another note, the night I got bloodwork I boned a chick from down the hall, and it was terrible. Worst sex of my life. I thought it would make me feel better (this is before I knew T levels were low), but I felt exactly the same as before the next morning. That is, very bland and not energized at all. Usually having sex with a new girl makes me feel awesome the next day, but it was nothing like that at all.

 

[ambulldog]

I don't want to touch any natural supps that can boost T before seeing an endo, because then my levels might be artificially inflated if he/she orders bloodwork again, etc.

And no re:depression and school, as this was the best start of any of my years at school so far. It's not a CC -- it's a top 10 school in the states, ha. And it's my third year here, so I know exactly how things run and where the parties are, etc etc. After the first week I've just had no motivation to go to them or really meet any girls or anything.

On another note, the night I got bloodwork I boned a chick from down the hall, and it was terrible. Worst sex of my life. I thought it would make me feel better (this is before I knew T levels were low), but I felt exactly the same as before the next morning. That is, very bland and not energized at all. Usually having sex with a new girl makes me feel awesome the next day, but it was nothing like that at all.

my advice. try not to dwell on this issue. you are taking all the right steps in getting this figured out. may just take a little time. hang in there

 

[vorcellian]

Thanks bro. It's hard though, especially because working out is such a big part of my life. And whenever workouts start to go poorly, I start to think that I look bad, and then I do end up looking bad, and everything spirals downward from there. And everything is so frustrating because I was literally in the best shape of my life only 6 weeks ago and feeling absolutely on top of the world

 

[The Matrix]

Ok lets put the hormones aside and look at what has occured in the last month.
1. When did you start college for this year?
2. Are you taking a heavy load of courses?
3. Are you getting proper sleep (going to bed 11 pm or earlier)
4. How much alcohol are you consuming?
5. How about your stress levels? Anything happen with in the last 2-3 months out of the ordinary?
6. What kind of supplements which are test booster you taking?

Easiest answer to your question is your body is under some kind of stress. The next thing to do is to isolate what.
1. Lifestyles - any drastic changes?
2. Eat pattern - you eat clean, or like typical college kid,processed food lots of dairy like crap.
3. Enviromental- any classes with solvents or vapors?
4. Structural- been dropped on your head lately, accident, ect - ask dr to order MRI of pituitary to look for hidden trama.
5. emotional or psychological - chick or family issue (deaths, parents ect..)
6. biochemical (hormones, infections, adrenals, medications, supplement interactions) ect..

Something may be altering your LH which is just symptoms of the cause..

Proper evaluation of adrenal through cortisol saliva may be needed, but more so as noted before there has to be more information given. 99% of the physicians would not asked detailed specific question to find out why. Your DR probably will slap you on androgel and see him in 3 months. Look at identifying the root cause not just symptoms..

 

[vorcellian]

Ok lets put the hormones aside and look at what has occured in the last month.

1. When did you start college for this year? I'm going to school on the east coast, and flew over from Washington state on August 23rd. The first week was stressful and I didn't get many good workouts in, mostly because I had to move all my things from my old dorm to my new one, unpack all my stuff, buy necessities like a fridge and microwave and tons of other stuff, etc etc. The day I left home on August 23rd was the best I've ever felt and looked in my life - I was training hard throughout the summer to come back to school in great shape. The first week was stressful, but after that everything calmed down and I honestly can't say I've noticed any signs of stress

2. Are you taking a heavy load of courses? Nope, this is my easiest semester at the school ever. I'm 21, so I already finished two years at this school, and my course load in previous semesters was definitely a lot tougher

3. Are you getting proper sleep (going to bed 11 pm or earlier) Every single night I've gotten over 9 hours of sleep. Usually it's been around 10-11 hours. But most of those nights, I've been going to sleep around 2-3am, so not very early.

4. How much alcohol are you consuming? None at all. The first weekend I drank maybe 6-8 beers, but after that my motivation to do so has just dropped. Plus, I usually don't drink a lot anyway because bodybuilding/working out takes priority. I've always enjoyed going out, though.

5. How about your stress levels? Anything happen with in the last 2-3 months out of the ordinary? Just the move to the school, but it's somewhere I'm already familiar with, so there was nothing I was not expecting. TBH, I can't say at all that I feel stressed, except for the first week. Since then, I've been very calm and relaxed (I think.. although I know stress can sometimes have a way of being hidden away. Never in my life have I felt really stressed out, though)

6. What kind of supplements which are test booster you taking? I take Xtend (BCAAs), which I've been taking for more than a year, and a multi every morning. I got a new multi here compared to the one I had at home, but I don't think that would make a difference. Animal Flex for the joints, and no test boosters at all. Last time I took a test booster was in December/January for 8 weeks. The only supplement I've added when I came here is Ultima by Omega Sports (a preworkout mix). Could that be the cause? I don't see how or why, but still..

Easiest answer to your question is your body is under some kind of stress. The next thing to do is to isolate what.

1. Lifestyles - any drastic changes? Living at college in a dorm instead of at home, not having control over my diet (ie, being unable to cook things that I want or need is the biggest. The diet thing is very frustrating because I like to know exactly what I'm consuming for every meal, and measure everything to the gram. I still do that here, but the food quality is lower because I'm forced to be on a meal plan from the dining hall. Still, I'm eating the same number of calories and the same macros that I've been eating at home right before I left, when I was in the best shape of my life).

2. Eat pattern - you eat clean, or like typical college kid,processed food lots of dairy like crap. Clean. If I veer offtrack I put on fat very easily, I've learned that over the years. Brown rice, chicken breast, cottage cheese, blueberries, oats, green tea, and veggies every day (broccoli, cucumbers, and carrots)

3. Enviromental- any classes with solvents or vapors? No, although I painted the inside of my dorm the first week here. I didn't have a fan so I couldn't air it out, and had to sleep in my bed with fresh paint on the walls. Windows were open and I used a water based paint though -- and it didn't smell very strongly either. That's the only thing I can think of

4. Structural- been dropped on your head lately, accident, ect - ask dr to order MRI of pituitary to look for hidden trama. No accidents or trauma of any kind

5. emotional or psychological - chick or family issue (deaths, parents ect..) Parents are good, girls around here were great the first week, then I just kind of lost interest. Family ties are great, so no emotional issues from relationships from anywhere

6. biochemical (hormones, infections, adrenals, medications, supplement interactions) ect..I'm not taking any medications. Although you mentioned infections, and although I don't have any, it reminded me that my BW results also showed that my Neutrophils were low (33% with a normal range of 40-74%), and my Lymphs were high (57% with a range of 14-46%). Absolute neutrophils was 1.5x10^3/uL, with a reference range of 1.8-7.8. I'm not sure if that's related, or if that even means anything..

Something may be altering your LH which is just symptoms of the cause..

Proper evaluation of adrenal through cortisol saliva may be needed, but more so as noted before there has to be more information given. 99% of the physicians would not asked detailed specific question to find out why. Your DR probably will slap you on androgel and see him in 3 months. Look at identifying the root cause not just symptoms..


---


Thanks for the very detailed reply, and for taking an interest. I answered all the questions and made other comments in bold up above. Other than that, I have a question: could this just be a temporary downward flux due to some type of external factor? I mean, obviously something is affecting me, but if it were an external cause, and it were to go away, my hormones should upregulate themselves over time, right? Or could this potentially be longer-term?

 

[The Matrix]

Ok lets put the hormones aside and look at what has occured in the last month.

1. When did you start college for this year? I'm going to school on the east coast, and flew over from Washington state on August 23rd. The first week was stressful and I didn't get many good workouts in, mostly because I had to move all my things from my old dorm to my new one, unpack all my stuff, buy necessities like a fridge and microwave and tons of other stuff, etc etc. The day I left home on August 23rd was the best I've ever felt and looked in my life - I was training hard throughout the summer to come back to school in great shape. The first week was stressful, but after that everything calmed down and I honestly can't say I've noticed any signs of stress

2. Are you taking a heavy load of courses? Nope, this is my easiest semester at the school ever. I'm 21, so I already finished two years at this school, and my course load in previous semesters was definitely a lot tougher

3. Are you getting proper sleep (going to bed 11 pm or earlier) Every single night I've gotten over 9 hours of sleep. Usually it's been around 10-11 hours. But most of those nights, I've been going to sleep around 2-3am, so not very early.

4. How much alcohol are you consuming? None at all. The first weekend I drank maybe 6-8 beers, but after that my motivation to do so has just dropped. Plus, I usually don't drink a lot anyway because bodybuilding/working out takes priority. I've always enjoyed going out, though.

5. How about your stress levels? Anything happen with in the last 2-3 months out of the ordinary? Just the move to the school, but it's somewhere I'm already familiar with, so there was nothing I was not expecting. TBH, I can't say at all that I feel stressed, except for the first week. Since then, I've been very calm and relaxed (I think.. although I know stress can sometimes have a way of being hidden away. Never in my life have I felt really stressed out, though)

6. What kind of supplements which are test booster you taking? I take Xtend (BCAAs), which I've been taking for more than a year, and a multi every morning. I got a new multi here compared to the one I had at home, but I don't think that would make a difference. Animal Flex for the joints, and no test boosters at all. Last time I took a test booster was in December/January for 8 weeks. The only supplement I've added when I came here is Ultima by Omega Sports (a preworkout mix). Could that be the cause? I don't see how or why, but still..

Easiest answer to your question is your body is under some kind of stress. The next thing to do is to isolate what.

1. Lifestyles - any drastic changes? Living at college in a dorm instead of at home, not having control over my diet (ie, being unable to cook things that I want or need is the biggest. The diet thing is very frustrating because I like to know exactly what I'm consuming for every meal, and measure everything to the gram. I still do that here, but the food quality is lower because I'm forced to be on a meal plan from the dining hall. Still, I'm eating the same number of calories and the same macros that I've been eating at home right before I left, when I was in the best shape of my life).

2. Eat pattern - you eat clean, or like typical college kid,processed food lots of dairy like crap. Clean. If I veer offtrack I put on fat very easily, I've learned that over the years. Brown rice, chicken breast, cottage cheese, blueberries, oats, green tea, and veggies every day (broccoli, cucumbers, and carrots)

3. Enviromental- any classes with solvents or vapors? No, although I painted the inside of my dorm the first week here. I didn't have a fan so I couldn't air it out, and had to sleep in my bed with fresh paint on the walls. Windows were open and I used a water based paint though -- and it didn't smell very strongly either. That's the only thing I can think of

4. Structural- been dropped on your head lately, accident, ect - ask dr to order MRI of pituitary to look for hidden trama. No accidents or trauma of any kind

5. emotional or psychological - chick or family issue (deaths, parents ect..) Parents are good, girls around here were great the first week, then I just kind of lost interest. Family ties are great, so no emotional issues from relationships from anywhere

6. biochemical (hormones, infections, adrenals, medications, supplement interactions) ect..I'm not taking any medications. Although you mentioned infections, and although I don't have any, it reminded me that my BW results also showed that my Neutrophils were low (33% with a normal range of 40-74%), and my Lymphs were high (57% with a range of 14-46%). Absolute neutrophils was 1.5x10^3/uL, with a reference range of 1.8-7.8. I'm not sure if that's related, or if that even means anything..

Something may be altering your LH which is just symptoms of the cause..

Proper evaluation of adrenal through cortisol saliva may be needed, but more so as noted before there has to be more information given. 99% of the physicians would not asked detailed specific question to find out why. Your DR probably will slap you on androgel and see him in 3 months. Look at identifying the root cause not just symptoms..


---


Thanks for the very detailed reply, and for taking an interest. I answered all the questions and made other comments in bold up above. Other than that, I have a question: could this just be a temporary downward flux due to some type of external factor? I mean, obviously something is affecting me, but if it were an external cause, and it were to go away, my hormones should upregulate themselves over time, right? Or could this potentially be longer-term?

THis is my specialty, learning to isolate the possible root cause..

 

[vorcellian]

THis is my specialty, learning to isolate the possible root cause..

Great, I'm really looking forward to what you might think might be causing this based on how I answered your questions above. Can't wait to hear back.

 

[vorcellian]

Any ideas (from anybody)? I posted the answers the Matrix's questions a few posts up..

 

[hitest]

Any ideas (from anybody)? I posted the answers the Matrix's questions a few posts up..

I see 3 possible red flags from your postings although nothing super strong.
1) Paint fumes. Did you specifically look for a low VOC paint? You said it didn't smell much but some people can't smell very well so that doesn't mean anything. Anyway, there is a possible environmental sensitivity here.
2) A potentially contaminated new supplement. This seems very unlikely to be the cause.
3) Abnormal immune cell counts. This could reflect a subclinical infection or a response to toxins. It may be hard to sort out whatever this is but seems like it could be related.

 

[The Matrix]

I see 3 possible red flags from your postings although nothing super strong.
1) Paint fumes. Did you specifically look for a low VOC paint? You said it didn't smell much but some people can't smell very well so that doesn't mean anything. Anyway, there is a possible environmental sensitivity here.
2) A potentially contaminated new supplement. This seems very unlikely to be the cause.
3) Abnormal immune cell counts. This could reflect a subclinical infection or a response to toxins. It may be hard to sort out whatever this is but seems like it could be related.

What ever possessed you not to use proper ventilation. Paint contains chemicals which may cause hormonal imbalances as well as potential thyroid issues. Chemical exposures can cause your immune system to become depressed or over active depending on a person bioindividuality. I suspect that you may have alter or plugged up cytochrome p 450 liver pathways which may have been suppressed due to various reasons.
Again go back to the source and root cause of the problem, then work to resolve it at core dealing with the symptoms at the same time. Most deadly toxins are odorless, Carbon monoxide for example. Every one genetic disposition to be able to detox environmental toxins. Some good others the right combination may be the trigger which starts the whole HPTA cascade.

 

[kingdong]

What ever possessed you not to use proper ventilation. Paint contains chemicals which may cause hormonal imbalances as well as potential thyroid issues. Chemical exposures can cause your immune system to become depressed or over active depending on a person bioindividuality. I suspect that you may have alter or plugged up cytochrome p 450 liver pathways which may have been suppressed due to various reasons.
Again go back to the source and root cause of the problem, then work to resolve it at core dealing with the symptoms at the same time. Most deadly toxins are odorless, Carbon monoxide for example. Every one genetic disposition to be able to detox environmental toxins. Some good others the right combination may be the trigger which starts the whole HPTA cascade.

Interesting. How would one unglog cytohrome p 450 liver pathways?

 

[The Matrix]

Interesting. How would one unglog cytohrome p 450 liver pathways?

I use detailed testing to examine what liver pathways may be blocked through urine or blood. This can be ran through your Dr at a reasonable cost even free if they are really open minded. I work with different health professionals who are interesting in looking into other areas.