Woody
Well-known member
You are too young for sure. You're at peak hormonal levels. Eat everything you can and lift heavy. Save the PH until you're a bit older. And 250mg won't see much results.
SUP3R-EPI and SUP3R-EPI ELITE Q&A
- Thread starter NewAgeMayan
- Start date
You are too young for sure. You're at peak hormonal levels. Eat everything you can and lift heavy. Save the PH until you're a bit older. And 250mg won't see much results.
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
What are your specific goals?
jazztastic
New member
Refining my upcoming cycle of Sup3r-1 & Sup3r-4. How beneficial would it be to add Epi-Andro to the mix?....ie. combat lethargy, loss of libido, other benefits, etc.
Cycle would look like this:
Sup3r-1: 220/220/330/330/330/330
Sup3r-4: 220/220/330/330/330/330
Epi-Andro: 500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500
AI - Exotherm, Virtus, Inhibit-E or Letrone
PCT:
Clomid: 50/50/25/25 or 25/25/12.5/12.5
AI - Exotherm, Inhibit-E or Letrone
SNS Reduce XT (Cortisol control)
Follidrone 2.0 3-4 caps ED
Cycle would look like this:
Sup3r-1: 220/220/330/330/330/330
Sup3r-4: 220/220/330/330/330/330
Epi-Andro: 500/500/500/500/500/500/500/500
AI - Exotherm, Virtus, Inhibit-E or Letrone
PCT:
Clomid: 50/50/25/25 or 25/25/12.5/12.5
AI - Exotherm, Inhibit-E or Letrone
SNS Reduce XT (Cortisol control)
Follidrone 2.0 3-4 caps ED
YoungBodyBuil
Banned
that's a nice layout.
Hastur
Well-known member
I completely agree with my buddy here. Maximize your natural potential, there is zero reason to suppress yourself for an insignificant amount of PH when your natural levels are likely higher, risking your HPTA before its fully developed for nothing.
Epiandro helps with strength, energy, combating estrogen a bit. You already have 4-andro, so that covers lethargy, but I like 4-Andro and Epiandro together. You're layout looks just fine, bro!
F355
Member
What would you guys think would be a better first cycle? I have been contemplating this for years now. Yes, you read that right, years!
I have been a member on AM for a minute now, just been off this forum for a while, however with OL bringing in the goods to the game, I had to creep back...
Anyway, which one do you guys think would be better. I'm shooting for fat loss first, and hoping to maintain strength, endurance, energy, mood, and just overall have a really good first cycle. Also should note, I'm getting back into training after taking a year off. I will also be incorporating a lot of sport-minded training (plyos, sprints, agility drills, cleans, power/explosive exercises, etc.)
Sup3r Epi and 11-kt for 8 weeks?
Protobol solo for 6-8 weeks?
Protobol with 11-kt for 6-8 weeks?
I know stacking isn't usually recommended for a first run, but Proto for the most part is pretty mild for being a methyl, so I figure stacking or overlapping with 11-kt shouldn't be too bad. I've seen harder first runs, so...
I also considered D-Plex or go with the ole tried and true hdrol for a first. Either of these would be solo if I went with one of them. However, I really want to run 11-kt. I've been praying for it to come back ever since it vanished and so glad to see it come back.
Also considered osta/11-kt or LGD/11-kt. But for some reason I'm kind of stuck on wanting to do epiandro/11-kt for 8 weeks with epiandro @ 500mg/day ramped up to 750mg/day and 11-kt @ 75mg/day up to 250mg/day.
What do ya'll say?
I have been a member on AM for a minute now, just been off this forum for a while, however with OL bringing in the goods to the game, I had to creep back...
Anyway, which one do you guys think would be better. I'm shooting for fat loss first, and hoping to maintain strength, endurance, energy, mood, and just overall have a really good first cycle. Also should note, I'm getting back into training after taking a year off. I will also be incorporating a lot of sport-minded training (plyos, sprints, agility drills, cleans, power/explosive exercises, etc.)
Sup3r Epi and 11-kt for 8 weeks?
Protobol solo for 6-8 weeks?
Protobol with 11-kt for 6-8 weeks?
I know stacking isn't usually recommended for a first run, but Proto for the most part is pretty mild for being a methyl, so I figure stacking or overlapping with 11-kt shouldn't be too bad. I've seen harder first runs, so...
I also considered D-Plex or go with the ole tried and true hdrol for a first. Either of these would be solo if I went with one of them. However, I really want to run 11-kt. I've been praying for it to come back ever since it vanished and so glad to see it come back.
Also considered osta/11-kt or LGD/11-kt. But for some reason I'm kind of stuck on wanting to do epiandro/11-kt for 8 weeks with epiandro @ 500mg/day ramped up to 750mg/day and 11-kt @ 75mg/day up to 250mg/day.
What do ya'll say?
Jebrook
Well-known member
First cycle? Without more info on current physical fitness, I definitely recommend start with a non-methyl. Super Epi for 8 weeks would be nice and you could add Sup3r 11 into the mix by week 3. This would be a stellar combo for cutting or a lean recomp IMO.
F355
Member
Yes, first cycle.
As for background - I started lifting when I was 17 in high school. Went hard from 18-22 throughout college. At 23, I started to focus more on basketball and was playing practically everyday. I dwindled down on lifting at this point. My weakest lifts have always been bench and squats. My best deadlift was 315. My best mile time is 6 min 22 sec I believe. I know it was under 6:30 min.
I am now going to be focusing a lot of bodyweight exercises. I have found that I respond VERY well to this. I will still incorporate compounds and isolations, however, my primarily goals are to improve speed, quickness, power, explosion and endurance. I will also be working on getting strength up. This is the reasoning to run an anabolic/androgen; for strength and recovery. I can put on weight with ease, my problem is shedding fat and keeping it off. I understand that diet is the most important in this, as well as consistency in training, I know. I am not a n00b in anyway.
However, I am at the point where now incorporating a strength aid will help immensely. I've seen many run a methyl for their first and had no problems. Hdrol, pmag, mecha, proto, epi, I've seen it all. I think I've even ran into a msten run for a first. So I don't think a non-methyl is absolutely necessary just because it's my first but I understand the reasoning behind it.
As for diet, I respond very well to a low carb lifestyle. So I will be starting slightly below maintenance with a low carb approach. The main aspect will be restricting carb intake around workouts, so mainly pre and post carb intake. The rest of the diet will be lots of veggies, fruits, and lean protein sources, as well as nuts and legumes. Very clean.
The staples will be had along with cycle support. PCT supplies and ancillaries will all be on hand before starting. Also I will be limiting stim intake and will increase BCAA intake along with water and potassium. Protein powder will be limited to 1-2 servings, and most likely only post workout.
I have always wanted to either do d-plex or hdrol as a first. However, proto looked to be a better choice. But when 11-kt came back, I knew that I had to include this. And with my liking of epiandro so much, I figured these two would be the best first cycle approach, especially for my goals.
Hastur
Well-known member
You seem confident in your choices, and you seem prepared to take the plunge. From all the data you've given, I'd go with:
SUP3R-EPI -- 1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000/1000
SUP3R-11 ---- 250/250/250/250/250/250/250/250
Just take some Ar1macare Pro on cycle to help mitigate any side effects, and have a bottle of SUP3R PCT and a SERM like Clomid on hand for PCT.
For an 8-week cycle, you'd just need 2 bottles SUP3R-EPI ELITE, 2 bottles SUP3R-11, 2 bottles Ar1macare Pro, 1 bottle SUP3R PCT, and enough of a SERM to run the proper dosage for 30 days.
F355
Member
Yep. Thanks Hastur.
Pretty damn excited to embark on this. I should note that right now I just want to get my stride back and work on the foundation of things. So I think keeping it non-methyl yet still effective is the way to go for this.
I've always loved epiandro and it's profile because it's just so versatile. It can be added to for any goal. And I think it's very underrated for cutting. I would opt to choose epiandro then a stim based product; with the exception of EC.
I intend to use EC about 3x a week on this combo and that will be the only stims taken. I will be sure to take BP supports to mitigate any and all sides as I understand epiandro can spike BP.
Lastly, do you really believe an 8 week run of epiandro and 11-kt will induce a shutdown severe enough to warrant a serm? I'm not saying I won't have a proper PCT in line, I'm genuinely curious. I ask because I feel if a particular cycle doesn't shutdown or suppress someone that much than maybe running a serm might do more harm than good. And that an OTC recovery product could suffice.
What do you think? I just wouldn't want to use a serm for something that in the end didn't suppress me all the way, that it may potentially cause an imbalance of my hormones from it's use.
Pretty damn excited to embark on this. I should note that right now I just want to get my stride back and work on the foundation of things. So I think keeping it non-methyl yet still effective is the way to go for this.
I've always loved epiandro and it's profile because it's just so versatile. It can be added to for any goal. And I think it's very underrated for cutting. I would opt to choose epiandro then a stim based product; with the exception of EC.
I intend to use EC about 3x a week on this combo and that will be the only stims taken. I will be sure to take BP supports to mitigate any and all sides as I understand epiandro can spike BP.
Lastly, do you really believe an 8 week run of epiandro and 11-kt will induce a shutdown severe enough to warrant a serm? I'm not saying I won't have a proper PCT in line, I'm genuinely curious. I ask because I feel if a particular cycle doesn't shutdown or suppress someone that much than maybe running a serm might do more harm than good. And that an OTC recovery product could suffice.
What do you think? I just wouldn't want to use a serm for something that in the end didn't suppress me all the way, that it may potentially cause an imbalance of my hormones from it's use.
Hastur
Well-known member
I get this question several times a day. The idea of 'degrees of suppression' is really bro-science. When your HPTA is disrupted, it's a matter of time until you are fully shutdown. This has to do with how HPTA suppression works. All anabolics bind to the androgen receptor. Anything that binds to the androgen receptor in the hypothalamus is going to cause suppression. This is unavoidable. Is there a difference between the immediate level of suppression and time to full shutdown between compounds? Yes. But don't use hormonals if you aren't prepared to be shutdown and require a SERM to restart in PCT. In all honesty, hormonals are rougher on you than SERMs physiologically speaking. I do not state this to be condescending either, I hope I don't come off that way, this became more of a BROAD response to others who may read it.
F355
Member
Not condescending at all. Everything makes sense. Maybe I have/had a different view on how suppression works. Here's how I was thinking...
So epiandro and 11-kt are mild for the most part, right? The way I saw it was that since it's mild, suppression won't be 100%.
For 8 weeks time, I assumed one would begin to shut down at the end of week 1 at 20%. Then at the end of week 4, somewhere around 40%. Finally at the end of week 8, I assume someone to be about 75% shut down from using epiandro and 11-kt. These are all hypothetical percentages of course. Point being, I assumed you can't really get 100% fully shut down from a cycle like this.
So if one were to be only 75% suppressed of their natural/normal production, I would think a strong OTC PCT would be ok. This consisting of a pharm AI like exem, along with quality test boosters and a cortisol controller like b-aet as well as arimistane. Along with a healthy diet and TIME, the combination of this otc pct would bring back the boys safe and sound.
This is what I meant when asking the severity of suppression from epiandro and 11-kt. I understand shut down is shut down, and that it's just a matter of time when one will be fully shut down. But what if you just never get FULLY shut down? What if you only get 50% suppressed?
Is there a certain degree of suppression that warrants a serm without a doubt? Or is a serm recommended even if one is only 20% suppressed? This is what I meant when I said if a serm might cause more harm than good.
And I know my "theory" is absolute crap but if there isn't even some logic to it, then there's no point in classifying compounds as light, mild, and harsh...right? Because if they all induce shut down and the only difference between them is TIME...well, then where does all this light, mild, and harsh come from? Is this regarding liver toxicity moreso than severity of shut down?
Your thoughts?
BamBam0319
Well-known member
Mine are dark brown with yellow stripes
YoungBodyBuil
Banned
Yes.
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
Thing is, whether or not you are fully shut down, you are running these compounds for a reason right? whether you are 20, 40, 60% suppressed, why wouldn't you aim to return to homeostasis asap to keep/improve on gains made during the cycle?
Your thoughts?
1kerry
Active member
hi, if taking 3 caps, should split doses, or all 3 can be taken preworkout on an empty stomach? thanks!
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Either/or can work. I think splitting is overall 'better', but experimentation will show you how you respond to a larger single dose.
1kerry
Active member
thanks!
Stickerflick
New member
if this had been asked, I'm sorry, but what's the half-life? I will be adding this to my Ostar1ne cycle when it comes in next week and would like to know.
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
How does it block DHT?
xo0ox
Member
Read some were that it worked to decreases the activity of 5 alpha reductase .
Quote:
"Abieta-8, 11, 13-trien-18 oic acid
- Decreases the activity of 5 alpha reductase which in turn reduces the DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) production
- Clinically proven to reduce the function of aromatase enzyme and acts as anti-estogenic in nature
- Decreases accumulation body fat and clinically shown to decrease the risk of obesity and diabetes
- Powerful antioxidant agent which may help in improving the activity of endogenous antioxidant SOD (superoxide dismutase)"
Some Australian sites selling Erase Pro stated this.
Could just be something they pulled out of their a$$ as I could not find this info any were else.
Quote:
"Abieta-8, 11, 13-trien-18 oic acid
- Decreases the activity of 5 alpha reductase which in turn reduces the DHT (Dihydrotestosterone) production
- Clinically proven to reduce the function of aromatase enzyme and acts as anti-estogenic in nature
- Decreases accumulation body fat and clinically shown to decrease the risk of obesity and diabetes
- Powerful antioxidant agent which may help in improving the activity of endogenous antioxidant SOD (superoxide dismutase)"
Some Australian sites selling Erase Pro stated this.
Could just be something they pulled out of their a$$ as I could not find this info any were else.
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
I've never read anything regarding that, however Epi-andro doesn't interact with 5-alpha reductase.
xo0ox
Member
Just those Australian sites that quoted this, I can't find this info any were else.
But yeah I also read that epiandro is already 5a reduced therefore bypassing the 5a enzyme (that only covert Test to dht) and instead uses alternative pathways to convert into DHT.
Toff
Well-known member
Stickerflick
New member
just added sup3r-epi to my ostar1ne run this morning. any reason I can't dose the two at the same time? it will be 250mg-20mg 45 minutes PWO, and of course the second would be 250mg 6 to 8 hrs later.
xo0ox
Member
Although I'm getting good pumps from the product I must say that something I my cycle I bloating me a bit.
Running
Sup3r-EPI 1000mg/day.
Sup3r-1 330mg/day.
LGI 11-X (11-oxo) 300mg/day.
Diet is spot on but I'm bloating a bit around my abs since about a week ago (on day 18 now) and I'm upp about 4 pounds I weight with the same diet and feeling softer around abs/chest. Arms, shoulders and legs are ripped with veins posing out.
Sodium intake is in check as well.
Feels nothing like the LG EPI/1 andro/17-pro (8 weeks run) that I ran last year and got rock hard on. Also no hair shedding yet like I got som LG EPI-ANDRO.
Product is bought from a legit UK reseller that is listed on OL website.
Some weight gain is sure to be increased glycogen in the muscles but the water around my abs is where most water is held for now.
Not sure what to make of it...
Running
Sup3r-EPI 1000mg/day.
Sup3r-1 330mg/day.
LGI 11-X (11-oxo) 300mg/day.
Diet is spot on but I'm bloating a bit around my abs since about a week ago (on day 18 now) and I'm upp about 4 pounds I weight with the same diet and feeling softer around abs/chest. Arms, shoulders and legs are ripped with veins posing out.
Sodium intake is in check as well.
Feels nothing like the LG EPI/1 andro/17-pro (8 weeks run) that I ran last year and got rock hard on. Also no hair shedding yet like I got som LG EPI-ANDRO.
Product is bought from a legit UK reseller that is listed on OL website.
Some weight gain is sure to be increased glycogen in the muscles but the water around my abs is where most water is held for now.
Not sure what to make of it...
1kerry
Active member
Sir, does super-epi should be taken with food always? i train fasted and always take it preworkout, im in my 5th week and havent noticed too much difference...im gonna add tr1umph (ph), should this be taken sith food and split doses?
Thanks!
Jebrook
Well-known member
Split dosing on both for sure and yes with at least a little food is optimal. Doesn't need to be a large amount either. Should have some fats which aid absorbtion. Taking on a completely empty stomach is not optimal but will still elicit the desired effects. For CNS stimulation with Epiandro, 500-750 mg 30-45 minutes PWO is optimal. 250 or less and you probably won't "feel" much.
1kerry
Active member
A small food could be .5 peanut butter serving? (3p, 4c, 8f) or go ahead for a full serving?
Thanks a lot dor your time again bro!
Jebrook
Well-known member
Yep, just a small portion is fine. Some peeps just take their fish oil and ph and nothing else. Gives nasty burps though.
Stickerflick
New member
should exotherm be used in a ostar1ne/sup3r-epi cycle? 25mg/750mg split dose. I have 2 bottles of exotherm on hand and have about 6 weeks left untill pct.
xo0ox
Member
What is you goal with the stack?
The Epi-Andro is anti-estrogenic in itself but the exotherm should increase fatburning as well a dropping water weight. Try it out and if you get low estro sides then drop back the dosage.
Stickerflick
New member
recomp, and it's going really good so far. just want clarification if exotherm would be better suited during or after the cycle. thanks guys
xo0ox
Member
What is you current PCT look like?
If it involes as SERM then that is all you need for what you are taking meaning you could take the exotherm now and reap the benefits of increased fatburning.
OSTA shuts down test pretty good but keeps LH and FSH going so NOLVA 20/20/10/10 as a PCT and you should be good to go.
GreenMachineX
Well-known member
I'd recommend skipping the exotherm until pct. osta doesn't increase e2 much if at all (according to my labs) and Epi is already strong enough to reduce e2.
Stickerflick
New member
pct:
clomid 50/50/25/25
ol sup3r pct
blr viron
folli 2.0
abe
ol hydro-3
might look at bridging exotherm to see how it works out on both sides of the spectrum.
clomid 50/50/25/25
ol sup3r pct
blr viron
folli 2.0
abe
ol hydro-3
might look at bridging exotherm to see how it works out on both sides of the spectrum.
xo0ox
Member
Stickerflick
New member
yes I realize this but want to make sure I'm covered and have not regrets. 8 week cycles add up $$. plus I have had the majority of this on hand.
xo0ox
Member
No punt intended.
My typical PCT is:
Clomid: 50/50/25/25
Nolva: 20/20/20/20/10
Aromasin 12,5mg e2d
Always good to get the HPTA up and going fast.
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
I would personally halve your SERM dosage and use Viron after PCT.
Stickerflick
New member
actually I've been told by others to drop the viron. also, half the clomid ( liquid)? is this due to it being a mild cycle? overkill?
NoAddedHmones
Well-known member
Yeah look, only said post PCT cause i assumed you were deffinitely going to use. Clomid doesn't need to be dosed as high as most do.
Stickerflick
New member
well hell then, that would work. that would leave me enough for my OL sup3r-1/-4 run. win win i guess.
DevilDog2136
Active member
Just ordered the elite bottle this will be my 5th cycle but I've also been off for about a year. Debating if I wanna take it solo or stack with some other stuff I have. I have 2 bottles of halo 100 and 2 bottles tr1umph and 2 bottles epistane what do you guys think?
NewAgeMayan
Well-known member
Epiandro is better as a stacker, yeah.
1kerry
Active member
Epiandro its meehh...just got this muscle hardness since day2-3, but thats it, no changes after that, no more energy, libido boost, body composition, maybe helped keeping strength while a deficit...at 750mg...maybe 1000mg would do the trick...I was running super 11kt and ostar1ne during 6 weeks
Woody
Well-known member
None of those compounds are particularly heavy on the lethargy and libido deadening side of things, IMO.