Succesful PCT Without a SERM?

northern

Member
I was trying to find out if anyone has run a succeful PCT without using a SERM. If so what did it consist of? and how was your recovery? Also what was your cycle?

I was reading a discussion somewhere else where the idea of a PCT w/o a SERM came up. One guy mentioned using Tribulus and 2 other Herbs (Maca) and Avena Sativa? not sure, but he said that you could probably run a succesful PCT with just those. Now I am not planning on actually doing this but was wondering whether others had any experience with PCT that did not involve a SERM.

Thanks.
 
Anyone who would do that certain wouldn't admit it if they have any sense. If they take that kind of risks with their HPTA, they're not worth listening to. Just my opinion.
 
doing a pct with herbs only is bs.

I did a 4wk cycle with 10 mg of emax only. ran 25mg of ATD with it. increased to 50 week 4 then 75,50,25. I ran 20 mg of nolva for the first 5days of pct. also retain, gxr, zma, saw palmetto, cee, flex support, 200mg dhea. gained 7lbs back(coming off injury). kept 6lbs after 20 days pct. best pct I've had. from either the light cycle, ATD or the retain is my guess.
 
The herb only PCT was an example, what I am really trying to have answered is can and has anyone done PCT without a SERM. I know afew probably have but was it a succesful one. The herb thing was an example but say someone used like, Reboud XT, ATD and say 7-OH?

Im not sure if I made this clear so tell me if you need me to do so.
 
Hmmm, if I understood your question...

I ran a four week cycle of Superdrol. I started at 10mg and ended the cycle doing 30mg.

I didn't take nolva because that was a personal choice but I could had went to a couple of my friends and borrow their Nolva, if I had ran into any type of problems.

I only took Novedex XT, HMB, Lean Xtreme, DHEA, Glutamine, BCAA, Flax oil, Fish oil, CEE and I was still taking all the side supplements like CoQ10, Red Yeast Rice, Odorless Garlic, Pro liver, Hawthorn, and Policosanol.

My recovery was smooth and kind of perfect because I kept a large amount of the new size. I even gained a few extra pounds during my PCT process. My diet was between 95% to 99% clean during my precycle, cycle and PCT.

I'm still holding the new weight between 229 to 231 pounds, from my last entry of 10/5/05, regarding my Superdrol log.

I'm now going through a natural bulk cycle until I can find a cycle to add the 1ad and 4ad too. Hmmm, does anyone have any idea??????



northern said:
I was trying to find out if anyone has run a succeful PCT without using a SERM. If so what did it consist of? and how was your recovery? Also what was your cycle?

I was reading a discussion somewhere else where the idea of a PCT w/o a SERM came up. One guy mentioned using Tribulus and 2 other Herbs (Maca) and Avena Sativa? not sure, but he said that you could probably run a succesful PCT with just those. Now I am not planning on actually doing this but was wondering whether others had any experience with PCT that did not involve a SERM.

Thanks.
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Did you do any bloodwork to back it up?
I only ask because I see nothing there that is PROVEN to increase HPTA functioning. The ATD products aren't proven (yet) but I hope they will be in the future.
 
northern said:
The herb only PCT was an example, what I am really trying to have answered is can and has anyone done PCT without a SERM. I know afew probably have but was it a succesful one. The herb thing was an example but say someone used like, Reboud XT, ATD and say 7-OH?

Im not sure if I made this clear so tell me if you need me to do so.
Click to expand...

I ran a SD/4AD cycle of 6 weeks and used homebrew 6-OXO/7-OXO for 4 weeks. I have no bloodwork but my boys dropped very quickly, however my libido just wouldn't bounce back. Of course I have had similar problems with Nolva as well. When I tried HCG (Swale) followed by some Nolva, I had boys that stayed full and had a libido before even completing PCT. Anecdotal, yes.
Does it answer the question, not really. Why did I post this, I don't know.:run:
 
I wasn't sure if you were talking to me but my blood work results are listed on my log.

Yes, my blood work came back ok; in fact I pass my complete physical exam with flying colors.:head:

Well, I guess I'm one of those guys that don't have NO SENSE OR WORTH LISTENING TOO or I might be a freak of nature. ;)



N4cer said:
Did you do any bloodwork to back it up?
I only ask because I see nothing there that is PROVEN to increase HPTA functioning. The ATD products aren't proven (yet) but I hope they will be in the future.
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QUICKRYDE and bpmartyr, thats what im looking for, however both your cycles were respectively short what im wondering is has anyone pulled off the same kind of thing you guys did but say on a 10+ week test cycle?
 
QUICKRYDE said:
Hmmm, if I understood your question...

I ran a four week cycle of Superdrol. I started at 10mg and ended the cycle doing 30mg.

I didn't take nolva because that was a personal choice but I could had went to a couple of my friends and borrow their Nolva, if I had ran into any type of problems.

I only took Novedex XT, HMB, Lean Xtreme, DHEA, Glutamine, BCAA, Flax oil, Fish oil, CEE and I was still taking all the side supplements like CoQ10, Red Yeast Rice, Odorless Garlic, Pro liver, Hawthorn, and Policosanol.

My recovery was smooth and kind of perfect because I kept a large amount of the new size. I even gained a few extra pounds during my PCT process. My diet was between 95% to 99% clean during my precycle, cycle and PCT.

I'm still holding the new weight between 229 to 231 pounds, from my last entry of 10/5/05, regarding my Superdrol log.

I'm now going through a natural bulk cycle until I can find a cycle to add the 1ad and 4ad too. Hmmm, does anyone have any idea??????
Click to expand...
this sounds like a nice pct ...i think i might look into this for mine ...ive also heard other a few people who ran longer cycles starting there non SERM pct the last 2 weeks of there actual cylce at a higher dosage and dropping it down once they are fully off the cycle ...kind to preload i guess ...and had success with it ...
 
I did a 6-weeker of Emax & Prostanozol. Did PCT with Novedex XT and transdermal 6-oxo and 7-oxo as well as some DHEA. I thought that would be sufficient. My libido was decreased and didn't come back. I tested as having low testosterone levels recently.

I'm not saying it was all my PCT, because what prompted me to that cycle was a strange inability to cut without losing LBM and a general lack of drive and energy, which are easily recognizable signs of low testosterone levels. So I might have been low before, but I know I'm low now, but that I was within range (lower end) 3 years ago.

My bottom line is: don't take risks man. Gear can make you feel like king kong. Low test can make you feel like an 80-year-old. This you really really want to avoid. It is worse than being small and weak. So do it right or don't cycle are the ONLY 2 options in my book. Get a SERM and run ATD with it.
 
Does exemestane do something else besides being an AI? I think ATD is much better than exemestane for PCT.
 
northern said:
One guy mentioned using Tribulus and 2 other Herbs (Maca) and Avena Sativa? not sure, but he said that you could probably run a succesful PCT with just those.
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He was a moron. :hammer: Some people run PCT without a SERM but not by using herbs in place of the SERM. A non-SERM based PCT is anchored with an aromatase inhibitor.
 
Yea, big difference between an SERM free PCT, and an all herbal PCT.

Im playing with different OTC combos on paper, I think a combo of ATD and 6-OXO would work for many cycles.

My current thinking is :

ATD : 75 mg days 1-3 / 50 days 4 - 18 / 25 in the AM days 19-26 / 25 eod days 27-34

6-OXO : 300mg PM days 19-40

Personally, I think herbs are worthless for PCT.
 
Grunt76 said:
Does exemestane do something else besides being an AI? I think ATD is much better than exemestane for PCT.
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Without knowing what exemestane does, why do you think ATD is better? Hahahahahahahahhahaha! Funny joke. I'm sure you don't REALLY mean that, Grunt. That would be a blind statement.

Remember this (in layman's terms):
Exemestane is to atd the same that Test is to 4AD. You're using the weaker cousin, boys. Exemestane frees bound test making you have less crash (ATD makes you feel more crash). Blood tests prove it.

calibrated said:
Exemestane is the active in Rebound XT but where can you buy Exemestane by itself? My Endo claims it is the best AI with positive sides.
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Exemestane is NOT in reboundXT. They can't put an active pharmaceutical in it. But you can buy exemestane at any place that supplies liquids for research purposes.
 
N4cer said:
Without knowing what exemestane does, why do you think ATD is better? Hahahahahahahahhahaha! Funny joke. I'm sure you don't REALLY mean that, Grunt. That would be a blind statement.

Remember this (in layman's terms):
Exemestane is to atd the same that Test is to 4AD. You're using the weaker cousin, boys. Exemestane frees bound test making you have less crash (ATD makes you feel more crash). Blood tests prove it.

Exemestane is NOT in reboundXT. They can't put an active pharmaceutical in it. But you can buy exemestane at any place that supplies liquids for research purposes.
Click to expand...
Gee, man, your laughter button is rather sensitive, huh? :blink: All I know about exemestane is its AI properties. I never said I knew EVERYTHING. But new info comes out all the time. So you never know what this or that new research report brings. When you have high rep power, you have to be very careful about what you assert because some people might take whatever is said too seriously. The people with the best intentions can spread misinformation or outdated information. So I'm being careful here.

Laugh all you want. "Knowing what exemestane does" is a pretty wide-ranging statement. If there is ONE research that has been made on the stuff that you did not read, then you do not FULLY know what something does. So when does "knowing about something" become "having SOME info about something" or "sufficient knowledge about something"?

When you don't care about the people reading what you write, and all you want to do is appear smart, then yeah, you can spout your mouth off as if you were a know-it-all even with only 10% knowledge about something and get away with it. Most of the time. OTOH when you care more about the people who read and the actual science of bodybuilding, then appearing knowledgeable is worthless. The acquisition and spreading of said knowledge becomes paramount.

So, laughing boy, please state EVERYTHING that exemestane does. Since you can laugh, I guess you have read a LOT of research on the stuff? I'm here to learn what I don't know and spread what I do know. What are you here for?

With these matters out of the way:

On top of being theoretically very possible, there is ample anecdotal evidence that ATD acts as a SARM, giving the HPTA the impression that there is little to no androgen circulating in the body, on top of acting as a suicide inhibitor of aromatase. This profile is ideal for HPTA stimulation. I do not know of a better profile than such and AFAIK ATD is the one molecule with this profile. Does exemestane do this? My guess is that it doesn't but then again it might, because unlike a lot of people, I would have to have read EVERY STUDY about it in order to claim to know all there is to know about any given thing.
 
Okay, my wording was wrong. Do you know very much about exemestane? Your answer is obviously no. So then why assume that ATD is better, when all you have on it is what the almighty supplement companies want you to believe? I don't think anyone can know EVERYTHING about a compound. But you made a conclusion on what's better with minimal knowledge of one of the 2 items being compared. That's the typical supp company lemming way. But I know those who are in that mindset are resistant to seeing the light, so I'm not surprised.

Yes, from a few studies exemestane operates with SARM properties as well. Well, I should say that much like ATD, one of its metabolites is suspected of acting as a SARM. Only exemestane is not suspected of false positives for increased test levels, like ATD is. One point for exemestane. Although I admit I don't have the studies to quote, because anybody knows the value of these studies. Studies are about worthless, considering that they are skewed by the funding source or originator. The studies are less science than the anedoctal evidence in most cases. But for some reason, some of the less saavy members believe studies are the gospel. I guess they haven't seen the studies on the accuracy of studies.

But yeah man, give it a try. You'll see. ATD is viewed as so great simply because most of the board members on larger boards are mindless lemmings willing to believe whatever a supplement company says or claims is a quote. If I relied upon supplement companies to educate me, I'd be taking 1mg of Methyl Dienolone for a cycle and Rebound for PCT.
 
N4cer said:
People actually pay attention to that rep power crap? How newbiefied of them.
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I believe that was the exact point he was making thus having to be carefull to not mislead the "lemmings".

I once read the results of a study done testing the accuracy of studies studying studies.
 
bpmartyr said:
I believe that was the exact point he was making thus having to be carefull to not mislead the "lemmings".

I once read the results of a study done testing the accuracy of studies studying studies.
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Yeah, but how reliable are its findings? :icon_lol:

To N4cer: I have not seen ample anecdotal evidence that exemestane, or one of its metabolites, exhibits SARM properties. As such, there is much more positive evidence on the side of ATD than of exemestane for PCT. Obviously, OTCs are more mainstream so of course evidence piles up quicker. And from your post, you don't seem to know much about exemestane yourself.

I'll agree with you: it's worth a try if you have it on hand along with other PCT stuff. But to call it better than ATD is a stretch IMO. If only for availability, convenience, track record, information and price, ATD is better.
 
Grunt76 said:
Yeah, but how reliable are its findings?
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I will begin an expeditionary study immediately to ascertain the exact percentage of reliability of the former.

Of course 76.754% of all statistics are made up on the spot. On a lighter note: last month meaningless statistics were down 3.4% over the previous six months.






A distubing study reveals: studies are disturbing.
 
bpmartyr said:
I will begin an expeditionary study immediately to ascertain the exact percentage of reliability of the former.

Of course 76.754% of all statistics are made up on the spot. On a lighter note: last month meaningless statistics were down 3.4% over the previous six months.






A distubing study reveals: studies are disturbing.
Click to expand...
:lol:
 
You funny mofo :)

vBulletin Message
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to bpmartyr again.
​
 
Re: Succesful PCT Without a SERM?

maybe with ATD and enough support supps, but at that point you're spending twice as much as you would on some nolva. If you can afford a $30 bottle to cycle something, you can afford another $30 for the nolva.

Being on cycle is great, PCT is the hard part. If you want to keep those lbs. SERM is key.
 
Dr.D ran his early SD cycles with a PCT consisting of only fenugreek and DHEA and recovered fine.

I ran two 3 week SD cycles with ONLY fenugreek and DHEA and kept gains and recovered fine.

I am not in the business of selling SERMS.
N4cer IS in the business of selling SERMS.
 
Does anyone even USE arimidex for PCT anymore?
Im about to start PCT this weekend for a rather long cycle. (17 wks Test/deca, intermittent bouts of anadrol and now bridging w/ winny tabs till esters clear system so I can drop the orals cold into PCT). I couldnt imagine concluding a cycle like this w/out a serm. I was going to use Nolva, but then at last minute I decided to get some Toremifene instead. I have some Rebound XT..... but then I found a bit of arimidex laying around that I forgot I had. Dont think it would last more then a week or a week and a half though. Is arimidex really any better for PCT than ATD you think? Im trying to decide weather to go with an inverse SERM to ATD type of regemin or not.
IE: Day 1-7: 120mgs Tor, 25 RXT.
Day 8-14: 60mgs Tor, 50 RXT
Day 15-28: 30mgs tor 75 RXT
I got a whole boat load of other stuff to take (including a bridge I've allready started of GH, w/ alternating between slin and IGF, + some MGF, + allready began low dose HCG just to reorientate my leydigs). But I consider the AI and SERM to be the foundation of my PCT. If I throw in a-dex, Im thinking it might be overkill on the anti E's, + it wont last all the way through my PCT unless I get more, and Im allready hurting for cash. (also got Retain, Lean Ext, activate, DHEA, two bottles of FUZE, and some long jack powder I've been trying to choke down for the last two years.) I also have a bottle of PCT (AX's version of ultrahotter.) I dont know the methyl ATD has any advantages over the ATD or not, but somehow I ended up with one bottle of each. (RXT, and PCT). Doubt I'll need both for this PCT. The fuze has my trib and fenugreek covered.
I know, I went overboard this time but its too late now, I allready bought the stuff, so I figure what the hey? I can always save anything I dont use for another time. I even found some old bottles of clomid and nolva I forgot about, but I've read good things on the TOR, so I dont see any reason to incorparate them. The sides from anti E's are worse than the gear IMO. Any opinions about the Tor, ATD idea? You think 120mgs TOR is to high for wk 1? Basically I just took one of Doctor D's nolva/atd inverse dosing ideas and applied it to TOR.
 
Someone who needs something discussed on this board would do well to visit the board sponsors' websites, generally speaking.
 
I have run a mohn,sd,and 2 s1+ cycles and the only pct I have used has been Metacourt and have had no issues with feeling shudown or loosing all my gains. I do not go over 4 week cycles and keep dosages as low as I can to get the gains, just my two cents........
 
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