[STUDY] Laxogenin reduces fat percentage, hydroxy-laxogenin increases muscle mass

Chamaan

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Hi everyone,

I dont have sufficient posts to link the study but a recent one was published on ergo-log regarding laxogenin.

I thought i would indicate it since there is not much data available on this supp. The study (double blind/placebo) indicates very promising results from oral administration (on trained subjects), even if they are preliminary and need further research.
 
00A

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Think i been taking the wrong one all this time, Sparta Nutrition laxo does **** all..
 

Jeremyk1

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I hope that guy’s research takes off. From the article, it sounds like he’s going to run more trials. Laxogenin has always seemed interesting, but there’s definitely not enough data on it.
 
Chamaan

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Think i been taking the wrong one all this time, Sparta Nutrition laxo does **** all..
I hope that guy’s research takes off. From the article, it sounds like he’s going to run more trials. Laxogenin has always seemed interesting, but there’s definitely not enough data on it.
What i find interesting is the dosage (around 50mg, whereas most companies sell 25mg dosage) and oral bioavailability (since it seems no absorption ingredient was added to the capsules).
Also almost 10% increase on bench performance in 4 weeks is (suspiciously) huge.
 

Jeremyk1

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The article seems to suggest it was a plant extract also. As far as I can tell, most supps use synthetic forms. I wonder if that makes much difference.
 
00A

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The article seems to suggest it was a plant extract also. As far as I can tell, most supps use synthetic forms. I wonder if that makes much difference.
Yes natural always better no matter what the companies say, they only support synthetic to make money
 
Chamaan

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The article seems to suggest it was a plant extract also. As far as I can tell, most supps use synthetic forms. I wonder if that makes much difference.
Yes, good observation.
Makes you think about Standardized versions advantages.
 

Rockzilla

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I thought the hydroxy version was just to have a better absorption, not a whole different effect.
 

MedRat

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It isnt your fault if you cant read and make sense of what you're reading. The only thing that may have improved was a 6 percent increase in the size of the calf muscles of untrained rats.

This is nothing to get excited over. I see supplement companies are all over this/these compounds also. Even going so far as to compare them with Anavar. Im going to stop acting civil for a minute abd put it like this. Someone needs to bitch slap the **** out of all these scumbags running these supplement companies. If you want real gains use real steroids. If you want to get rid of some money donate it to St Judes, an animal shelter, a homeless person on the street. Anything else but to these charlatans who belong in prison for stealing from the masses.

Dr. Medrat out(Mic drop).
 

Jeremyk1

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Um, this article is about a human trial with the stuff. And I guess it supposedly has the same anabolic/androgenic ratio as anavar. The problem is everyone butchers that to no end and claim it’s as strong as anavar. So I definitely see your point, but there is a little more context needed.
 
HIT4ME

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It isnt your fault if you cant read and make sense of what you're reading. The only thing that may have improved was a 6 percent increase in the size of the calf muscles of untrained rats.

This is nothing to get excited over. I see supplement companies are all over this/these compounds also. Even going so far as to compare them with Anavar. Im going to stop acting civil for a minute abd put it like this. Someone needs to bitch slap the **** out of all these scumbags running these supplement companies. If you want real gains use real steroids. If you want to get rid of some money donate it to St Judes, an animal shelter, a homeless person on the street. Anything else but to these charlatans who belong in prison for stealing from the masses.

Dr. Medrat out(Mic drop).
This is not a personal thing, so I apologize - but it is amazing how we can be right and wrong at the same time. Yes, most supplement companies are optimistic, many are outright liars - but let's not throw the baby out with the bathwater. I am thankful for many supplements that are available to me without medical intervention, that I believe do have long-term benefits.

I think most people need to change their views on supplements though. Many things we do for health benefits, we do long-term. Drugs are viewed as acute solutions to long-term problems - but they always have trade offs. We accept that certain things are good for us, like exercise and veggies, without any acute benefits. You don't get sick and say, "Oh, I'll go for a run and that will get rid of my problem".

No, we know we have to eat broccoli and exercise consistently for them to have an effect. Yet, with supplements - we expect them to be instant or magical. I take fish oil, Vitamin D, Vitamin C, NAC on the regular, but I don't notice much from it consciously.

Um, this article is about a human trial with the stuff. And I guess it supposedly has the same anabolic/androgenic ratio as anavar. The problem is everyone butchers that to no end and claim it’s as strong as anavar. So I definitely see your point, but there is a little more context needed.
Here is the link to ergo-log that discusses it: https://www.ergo-log.com/laxogenin-reduces-fat-percentage-hydroxy-laxogenin-increases-muscle-mass.html

I assume it will be on the front page of this site eventually; if not already. I can't read the original study because it isn't in English and I don't have time to deal with translations right now....
 

MedRat

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Excuse me for the broad generalization regarding supplement companies. There are many supplements which work well. B vitmans, small amounts of E, vitamin C, Zinc Picolinate, NAC, ALCAR, tyrosine,theanine, taurine, arginine, and more.

Ive been witness to supplement companies shoving minor amounts of ingredients that arent very effective. Theres a minimum edfective dose to everything.

The dispicable companies take one small study showing a few percentages in muscle mass or weight loss and run with it. 50, 80, 120 dollars for products that do very little. Ill spend more time researching these two products. Right now, I am not overly optimistic.
 
HIT4ME

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Excuse me for the broad generalization regarding supplement companies. There are many supplements which work well. B vitmans, small amounts of E, vitamin C, Zinc Picolinate, NAC, ALCAR, tyrosine,theanine, taurine, arginine, and more.

Ive been witness to supplement companies shoving minor amounts of ingredients that arent very effective. Theres a minimum edfective dose to everything.

The dispicable companies take one small study showing a few percentages in muscle mass or weight loss and run with it. 50, 80, 120 dollars for products that do very little. Ill spend more time researching these two products. Right now, I am not overly optimistic.
Haha. I hear you loud and clear. I wasn't saying you personally were wrong. It's just unfortunate that we have to be so skeptical - but I am part of my own problem too. Sometimes I read about an ingredient and I get so excited. I WANT to believe it will work. And I think sometimes the people making claims are in a similar position...they want it to work for people. It just doesn't.

Unfortunately, your skepticism is well founded because a lot of companies are disingenuous at best in their marketing.

I always view myself like Fox Mulder. I know there are no magic supplements, but I want to believe and I am going to keep looking.
 
double s

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What dosages have been experimented with?
 
DaeshDontSurf

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creanite.com (same guys site) he sells supplements - guessing his special laxo is available from him

Creanite
Grensstraat 4R
4645 BS Putte
The Netherlands

Phone:
Mon, Tue, Thu, Fri 12-14.00

Information:
J. de Heij, pharmacist
Tel. 0164 603336
R. Meijer, sports dietitian

To order:
info @ creanite .com
Tel. 0164 603336

= All prices include 6% VAT and excluding shipping costs
= Lower prices for larger quantities, eg 400 or 1000 capsules
= The most common quantities are mentioned here
= Inquire about the prices of substances that are not on the list
= The raw materials are also available per 1-2-3 or more kilograms
= These prices are the applicable prices
= Gray rules indicate that a substance is (temporarily) not available
Prijslijst = Price List in Dutch.
 
AntM1564

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Hi everyone,

I dont have sufficient posts to link the study but a recent one was published on ergo-log regarding laxogenin.

I thought i would indicate it since there is not much data available on this supp. The study (double blind/placebo) indicates very promising results from oral administration (on trained subjects), even if they are preliminary and need further research.
Is this the study?

http://www.ergo-log.com/laxogenin-reduces-fat-percentage-hydroxy-laxogenin-increases-muscle-mass.html
 

Ot2000

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I am sure these “purified extracts” are wonder pills, you know, only need 44mgs for amazingness.
 
Old Witch

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In my experience, laxogenin needs to have absorption enhancement (cyclosomal preferred) and then must be dosed at 300mg/ED and increased by 100mg weekly.

A company would be wise to offer 500mg 5a laxogenin capsules with enhanced delivery, and include a nutrient partitioner. Think about what that would actually do.
 

bigsmall

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Transdermal works for me. Prefer Incongenin over Dermastrength. Oral is useless. Top Muscle includes Laxo btw.
 
thebigt

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Transdermal works for me. Prefer Incongenin over Dermastrength. Oral is useless. Top Muscle includes Laxo btw.
iconogenin is the best I've used...iconogenin and sustain alpha/dermacrine are 35% off for labor day sale at iconicformulatiuons.com
 
double s

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In my experience, laxogenin needs to have absorption enhancement (cyclosomal preferred) and then must be dosed at 300mg/ED and increased by 100mg weekly.

A company would be wise to offer 500mg 5a laxogenin capsules with enhanced delivery, and include a nutrient partitioner. Think about what that would actually do.
Thats crazy, don't think I have seen anything over 100mgs..
 
rowz4broz

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Thats crazy, don't think I have seen anything over 100mgs..
OL's

actually just bought a bottle cause my shoulder has been hurting and wanted to give this a try over a more typical joint support
 
Old Witch

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Thats crazy, don't think I have seen anything over 100mgs..
I don't think it's crazy considering the results at that dose. 100mg 2x a day is weak. You wouldn't see results from other quite similar compounds at that dosage either. At 500mg 2x daily 5a laxogenin really shines though. Much in the way that androsterone and epiandro do at that dosage, except I think better tbh. 6keto OhP also, high dosage.

Hopefully the market shifts to support this idea soon.
 
00A

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I don't think it's crazy considering the results at that dose. 100mg 2x a day is weak. You wouldn't see results from other quite similar compounds at that dosage either. At 500mg 2x daily 5a laxogenin really shines though. Much in the way that androsterone and epiandro do at that dosage, except I think better tbh. 6keto OhP also, high dosage.

Hopefully the market shifts to support this idea soon.
Who sells at this dosage, confused to where you getting this info from?
 
Danes

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Hi everyone,

I dont have sufficient posts to link the study but a recent one was published on ergo-log regarding laxogenin.

I thought i would indicate it since there is not much data available on this supp. The study (double blind/placebo) indicates very promising results from oral administration (on trained subjects), even if they are preliminary and need further research.
Study ?
I would not call it study at all. And the guy who made the "study" owns supplement company.
 
Danes

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I don't think it's crazy considering the results at that dose. 100mg 2x a day is weak. You wouldn't see results from other quite similar compounds at that dosage either. At 500mg 2x daily 5a laxogenin really shines though. Much in the way that androsterone and epiandro do at that dosage, except I think better tbh. 6keto OhP also, high dosage.

Hopefully the market shifts to support this idea soon.
I do agree with you there, but the high dose is only needed if the bioavailability/absorption of the compound is not improved.
Lets say you could use Liposonal delivery. Believe me, you could use only 50mg of the compound and even then, you would get more of it than using 1000mg without bioavailability/absoprtion support.
 
thebigt

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I do agree with you there, but the high dose is only needed if the bioavailability/absorption of the compound is not improved.
Lets say you could use Liposonal delivery. Believe me, you could use only 50mg of the compound and even then, you would get more of it than using 1000mg without bioavailability/absoprtion support.
or you could use iconogenin [transdermal]
 
Danes

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or you could use iconogenin [transdermal]
TD has its issues too. Take androgel/testgel as an example. (Even a medicine).
Liposomal is superior. Liposomes protect the compound from liver enzymes ++. :)
 
thebigt

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TD has its issues too. Take androgel/testgel as an example. (Even a medicine).
Liposomal is superior. Liposomes protect the compound from liver enzymes ++. :)
for it to be prescription androgel has a horrible delivery, when I used it I applied dmso before applying. I forget what the absorption rate is but it is pretty low.
 
BCseacow83

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androgel is priced outrageously high, you would think they would improve on the delivery!!!
I agree. At this point to change the carrier would require going through the approval process all over again ie. 100,000,000 plus in cost to do so. Now why they did not find a better carrier, to begin with, is beyond me. I believe Androgel is about 10%, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3891651/ , which is lower than some of the OTC products have claimed. Now I am not sure if the pharma companies are limited in what they can legally use as a carrier but 10% is sad when you have a multi-million dollar research budget. There may be more to the story though as both Testim and Androgel claim 10% absorption rates. I do have a theory though.

There is a limit to how much the skin can absorb per sq in. Patr ick Arno ld has been very clear about this over the years and is the reason he encourages users of his cosmetic products to cover as large of an area as possible. Once the skin is saturated in any one area, there is simply no more going in no matter what the carrier is. I believe the limited application area for the test gels, due to the high concentration and small amount of lotion being used, is playing a role in its limited absorption. For maximum absorption diluted gel spread over a much larger area would be ideal IMO.
 

user567

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Some guy in a gym handing out low doses of Laxogenin. Awesome study
 
Nac

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I believe Androgel is about 10%, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3891651/ , which is lower than some of the OTC products have claimed.
OTC products can claim whatever the hell numbers they want, largely because they have no in vivo studies specific to them saying otherwise. The pharma companies obviously have pretty good in vivo PK studies limiting their claims.

Brahs go on about "DMSO!! DMSO!!" but that stuff is arguably high-risk for general public use. And by that I mean, what the average bro is peppered to tolerate in regards to DMSO-sides, can differ dramatically to what most TRT patients will tolerate.
 
thebigt

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I agree. At this point to change the carrier would require going through the approval process all over again ie. 100,000,000 plus in cost to do so. Now why they did not find a better carrier, to begin with, is beyond me. I believe Androgel is about 10%, https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3891651/ , which is lower than some of the OTC products have claimed. Now I am not sure if the pharma companies are limited in what they can legally use as a carrier but 10% is sad when you have a multi-million dollar research budget. There may be more to the story though as both Testim and Androgel claim 10% absorption rates. I do have a theory though.

There is a limit to how much the skin can absorb per sq in. Patr ick Arno ld has been very clear about this over the years and is the reason he encourages users of his cosmetic products to cover as large of an area as possible. Once the skin is saturated in any one area, there is simply no more going in no matter what the carrier is. I believe the limited application area for the test gels, due to the high concentration and small amount of lotion being used, is playing a role in its limited absorption. For maximum absorption diluted gel spread over a much larger area would be ideal IMO.
look at listed ingredients of the carrier...it is piss poor-they could have done much better, imo.

I would take iron legion's salvo carrier over androgel's carrier every time.
 
BCseacow83

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look at listed ingredients of the carrier...it is piss poor-they could have done much better, imo.

I would take iron legion's salvo carrier over androgel's carrier every time.
I was not defending the carrier as I agree with you. They could and should do better. I was trying to give some idea as to why they don't at this point. Salvo is ok but I personally prefer something I can spread over a larger area. Thinner carriers that apply to large suface areas are my preferred.
 

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Just started iconogenin again 2 weeks ago...and the leaning effects are profound and consistant with each time i run it.
 
thebigt

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for those of you looking to try iconogenin there is a promo running for a chance to log it.
 

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