Strep Throat while on week 4 of p-mag to m-drol bridge

[steakboy]

My rat is on his 4th week, and has since been on his first week of m-drol only 20mg. He just started getting the white spots in the throat, inflamed kidneys, headaches, etc... definitely bacterial in nature. My rat doesn't have insurance, so he decided to just go with a broad spectrum antibiotic called tetracycline most commonly found at pet stores. Dosage checked.

Should he:

A.) Stop cycle immediately and start PCT with nolva/clomid and use antibiotic with a course of pre/probiotics, vitamin C, and anti-cortisol?

B.) Continue with cycle (last week) and run anti-b's with pre/pro, and vit-c, try to tough it out, work out at home until non-contagious.

 

[steakboy]

bump. anybody have any ideas here? A search on the forums didn't really reveal to much for me. All i got out of it was to NOT start PCT... no real reason or scientific backup. c'mon i'd really hate it for my rat to die.

 

[Trauma1]

My rat is on his 4th week, and has since been on his first week of m-drol only 20mg. He just started getting the white spots in the throat, inflamed kidneys, headaches, etc... definitely bacterial in nature. My rat doesn't have insurance, so he decided to just go with a broad spectrum antibiotic called tetracycline most commonly found at pet stores. Dosage checked.

Should he:

A.) Stop cycle immediately and start PCT with nolva/clomid and use antibiotic with a course of pre/probiotics, vitamin C, and anti-cortisol?

B.) Continue with cycle (last week) and run anti-b's with pre/pro, and vit-c, try to tough it out, work out at home until non-contagious.

Just to clarify a few things here: Just because you have evinced peritonsilar exudate (white spots on the tonsils) does not necessarily support or imply a bacterial etiology of infection. This is a common myth that just isn't true. Viral pharyngitis (sore throat) can cause this to occur as well.

The vast majority of pharyngitis-related issues in adults is viral in nature; in other words, no antibiotics are needed and the effects are self-limiting. Do you have a fever? Strep throat is typically (not always) accompanied by fever. My advice here would be to give it a day or two. If it isn't resolving on its own, get in to see your PMD or walk-in clinic so they can test for strep and obtain a throat culture.

Self prescribing antibiotics is not a good idea; especially since they're often not indicated for treatment. It's issues like these that contribute to an already evolving bacterial resistance problem in this country; not to mention you can harm yourself as well. Please let a qualified healthcare professional make the recommendations based on their clinical findings and indicated treatment modality in these situations.

Will tetracycline cover strep throat? Yes, but there are much cheaper, safer, and more effective narrow-spectrum antibiotics (which contribute less to antibiotic resistance development) that can be selected. Tetracycline is a fairly old antibiotic that has some rather bad side effects.

I understand you don't have insurance, but your health is one area that should never spare expense. Please don't take this as me being negative here with your post, because that's not the intent at all. I speak from my own knowledge and experience in medicine and I want to see the safest possible positive outcome for you here.

As far as your cycle goes, that's your call, but since you're already at the end I'd probably cut it short and rest. Good luck my man and be safe.

-John

 

[steakboy]

Just to clarify a few things here: Just because you have evinced peritonsilar exudate (white spots on the tonsils) does not necessarily support or imply a bacterial etiology of infection. This is a common myth that just isn't true. Viral pharyngitis (sore throat) can cause this to occur as well.

The vast majority of pharyngitis-related issues in adults is viral in nature; in other words, no antibiotics are needed and the effects are self-limiting. Do you have a fever? Strep throat is typically (not always) accompanied by fever. My advice here would be to give it a day or two. If it isn't resolving on its own, get in to see your PMD or walk-in clinic so they can test for strep and obtain a throat culture.

Self prescribing antibiotics is not a good idea; especially since they're often not indicated for treatment. It's issues like these that contribute to an already evolving bacterial resistance problem in this country; not to mention you can harm yourself as well. Please let a qualified healthcare professional make the recommendations based on their clinical findings and indicated treatment modality in these situations.

Will tetracycline cover strep throat? Yes, but there are much cheaper, safer, and more effective narrow-spectrum antibiotics (which contribute less to antibiotic resistance development) that can be selected. Tetracycline is a fairly old antibiotic that has some rather bad side effects.

I understand you don't have insurance, but your health is one area that should never spare expense. Please don't take this as me being negative here with your post, because that's not the intent at all. I speak from my own knowledge and experience in medicine and I want to see the safest possible positive outcome for you here.

As far as your cycle goes, that's your call, but since you're already at the end I'd probably cut it short and rest. Good luck my man and be safe.

-John

good post, and well answered. I recently opted for amoxicillin, in its place, seeing as i can't seem to find azithromycin anywhere...

realistically yes, i would normally just go to the doc and deal with the bill if i didn't know where or how i got this odd illness. but, in this case, the odds are that it IS streptococcus A, not only for symptoms (pustules, fever, inflammation of kidneys, abdominal discomfort, general malaise) but for the simple fact that my girlfriend tested positive to a throat culture, and i happened to be in her presence during the time she would have still been contagious.

Also... If the cycle is stopped, should PCT be started during this time, or wait until sickness is gone?

 

[Trauma1]

good post, and well answered. I recently opted for amoxicillin, in its place, seeing as i can't seem to find azithromycin anywhere...

realistically yes, i would normally just go to the doc and deal with the bill if i didn't know where or how i got this odd illness. but, in this case, the odds are that it IS streptococcus A, not only for symptoms (pustules, fever, inflammation of kidneys, abdominal discomfort, general malaise) but for the simple fact that my girlfriend tested positive to a throat culture, and i happened to be in her presence during the time she would have still been contagious.

Also... If the cycle is stopped, should PCT be started during this time, or wait until sickness is gone?

I wasn't aware that you'd had a recent exposure to it. It is fairly contagious, but without proof positive on the test there is no way to be certain. You can be exposed and not develop infection. Did she test positive from strep pyogenes group A on the throat swab? Or, did she have a specific bacterial growth noted on the separate throat culture they do (if it turns up negative for strep pyo group A)?

It's tough to discern what exactly are the possible side-effects being demonstrated from the compounds you're taking vs. the immunologic response to bacterial/viral antigen stimulation produced by the body (e.g. fever, body aches, weakness/malaise, etc); or even a combination of both. Either way, I believe you did the right thing stopping here and getting some rest.

Penicillin-based antibiotics are a much better treatment modality if it truly is strep throat (and I'm not saying that it is by any means). Amoxicillin would work well, but I'm certainly not recommending that in any regard either. I still advise you to follow up with a qualified medical professional for evaluation and treatment.

Good luck, and be safe my friend.

-John

 

[steakboy]

it was a rapid test, from what i gather from her... she's not well read on any of this stuff so it was hard to get what kind of test she got. irregardless, amoxicillin is good in killing any of the groups associated with strep, and others, being that it's broad spectrum.

She got perscribed cipro, after a short coarse of azithromycin pack, as it showed resistant to it. after some reading... cipro is pretty harsh and has some nasty sides. honestly, after the zpack i wonder why she got perscribed cipro rather than penicillin or amoxicillin. seemed drastic to me, but.. i'm no doctor.

 

[Trauma1]

it was a rapid test, from what i gather from her... she's not well read on any of this stuff so it was hard to get what kind of test she got. irregardless, amoxicillin is good in killing any of the groups associated with strep, and others, being that it's broad spectrum.

She got perscribed cipro, after a short coarse of azithromycin pack, as it showed resistant to it. after some reading... cipro is pretty harsh and has some nasty sides. honestly, after the zpack i wonder why she got perscribed cipro rather than penicillin or amoxicillin. seemed drastic to me, but.. i'm no doctor.

Yes, but broad spectrum antibiotics (depending upon the class) are all different in ways. Some provide better coverage against specific types of bacteria (gram-positive or gram-negative). There are a lot of resistance issues as well now due to the drastic over-use of broad spectrum antibiotics when they not indicated. Resistance issues also develop because people don't finish their course of antibiotics when they start to feel better; this allows those bacteria that survived to develop factors of resistance that can be passed on to future bacteria. Specific course of prescribed antibiotics are usually determined based on the complaint, findings, and diagnosis/differential diagnosis.

I don't think many people realize how this resistance issue is becoming a major problem. There are already microbes that show resistance to our last-line of antibiotic defense; that's seriously scary considering 50 years ago there was no evinced resistant strains. In other words, we have a serious problem if this continues to evolve as it has.....and it will. There hasn't been a new antibiotic pathway discovered since the 60's. They're attempting to develop new types of antibiotics inhibiting different pathways of bacterial growth.proliferation, but they're having a hard time right now.

Cipro to treat step throat doesn't make any sense at all. I won't get into all the complicated pharmacology/pharmacodynaics here, but cipro is not indicated to treat that type of bacteria. There's probably more to the story here and I'm not going to pry.

The "Z-pack" or azithromycin is a very good antibiotic that will cover Strep pyo group A. I'm not aware of any resistance noted from this bacteria to any antibiotic at this time. That's why it's still very effectively treated with penicillin class antibiotics (e.g. Penicillin VK, Amoxicillin, etc).

I apologize for getting a bit off-topic here. Drink those fluids and get well my man.

-John

 

[steakboy]

Yes, but broad spectrum antibiotics (depending upon the class) are all different in ways. Some provide better coverage against specific types of bacteria (gram-positive or gram-negative). There are a lot of resistance issues as well now due to the drastic over-use of broad spectrum antibiotics when they not indicated. Resistance issues also develop because people don't finish their course of antibiotics when they start to feel better; this allows those bacteria that survived to develop factors of resistance that can be passed on to future bacteria. Specific course of prescribed antibiotics are usually determined based on the complaint, findings, and diagnosis/differential diagnosis.

I don't think many people realize how this resistance issue is becoming a major problem. There are already microbes that show resistance to our last-line of antibiotic defense; that's seriously scary considering 50 years ago there was no evinced resistant strains. In other words, we have a serious problem if this continues to evolve as it has.....and it will. There hasn't been a new antibiotic pathway discovered since the 60's. They're attempting to develop new types of antibiotics inhibiting different pathways of bacterial growth.proliferation, but they're having a hard time right now.

Cipro to treat step throat doesn't make any sense at all. I won't get into all the complicated pharmacology/pharmacodynaics here, but cipro is not indicated to treat that type of bacteria. There's probably more to the story here and I'm not going to pry.

The "Z-pack" or azithromycin is a very good antibiotic that will cover Strep pyo group A. I'm not aware of any resistance noted from this bacteria to any antibiotic at this time. That's why it's still very effectively treated with penicillin class antibiotics (e.g. Penicillin VK, Amoxicillin, etc).

I apologize for getting a bit off-topic here. Drink those fluids and get well my man.

-John

Yeah cipro is a fluoroquinolone class, and is used for e-coli, skin infections, ect... she didn't have any symptoms that would warrant something like that. If she tested positive to rapid test on strep, and azithromycin wasn't working on reducing symptoms, could it mean that it isn't strep and he's(the doc) trying to throw a hail mary at it?

i'm trying to avoid going to the doc for this... i really don't need the extra bill right now. If i must, then i must... but i'm taking a course of amoxicillin and if symptoms continue, and i keep a fever, then yes... emergency room.

anyway... i'm taking a break from the workouts for now, but i'm continuing my m-drol so i don't fall into gyno or something random since i'm scared to take my SERMs right now.