Unanswered Stopped responding to gear(i am a believer now)+question for homebrew guys

[CroLifter]

Alrighty!
1.
I have to admit, i didnt buy into all that androgen receptor desensitization and myostatin build up before i started my blast but i have to say that i am now a 100% believer and will never agaun do a 12 week cycle, even with longer esters.
Basically, i started this blast with 500mg test e, i felt it the next day, about a week in i started getting sick pumps and from about week 3 i started gaining crazy amounts of strength and pumps were unbelievable, i just woke up one day with 3d delts. It was like that until about week 6 and here i started stalling. I kept eating to gain weight but all i was gaining was fat.
I introduced masteron around week 7ish and experienced slight strength boost from aggression, but otherwise nothing.
Also, i had to drain like 1000ml of blood to get my hct under 0.50 and that set me back a fair bit as far as strength goes. Basically, the last 4-5 weeks have been a total waste of gear. If it wasnt for some events coming up, i would have dropped the dose to 125mg per week.

So going on from now, after i have spent at least a good 3 months on just trt dose, instead of doing 12 weeks @ 600mg test e like i planned, i am going to do 7 weeks @ 1000mg. Same total amount of hormone but compressed in what is to me an effective time frame, any longer than that and i dont see any benefits.
So this is my line of thinking. Opinions are welcome, i would like to hear from others when/if their gains stall on longer esters.

2.
I am going to transfer test from amps to a vial so that i can dose 0.5ml per week for cruising.
Since this test doesnt contain any benzyl alcohol as it is meant to be used right away after cracking open an amp, i will be adding 2% benzyl alcohol to it. Do I have to run it through a whatman 0.22 micron even if it is pure benzyl alcohol?

 

[steve0178]

I'm my experience, longer esters don't become fully concentrated until about 6 weeks. That's when I really start seeing results. The last thing I would do is drop them right when they reach peak levels. If you're wanting to run a 7 week cycle, I'd go with short esters.

 

[CroLifter]

But i stopped gaining strength around week 7ish. More food didnt help. Good point about short esters, i would use them but i have access to pharmaceutical test e, and that is a no brainer.
Not only that, but i am no longer constantly pumped like i was for the first 6 weeks. No gains after week 7 for me, no size gains, no strength gains, just some fat as the scale kept going slightly up.

 

[Old Witch]

Sounds odd but some guys don’t really grow on stable doses.

Some guys need to keep ramping the dose up over the 12-16/20 weeks so it never reaches a stable concentration. It seems that’s rare though.

And not to crazy degrees either. More like starting the cycle at 300/wk and ending at 750/wk.

 

[Old Witch]

And yes, you still have to filter the BA.

 

[CroLifter]

Makes sense, i seemed to have stopped growing right around the time when peak concentration should have had been reached.

 

[Mathb33]

It’s actually like that for me too. Trust me I doubt it’s your receptors because I’m the same and as soon as I up my dose or add another injectable or compounds my weight moves up again. I gain fast but it stops fast too

 

[CroLifter]

Yeah when my gains stopped it was as if someone flipped a switch.
As if my body freaked out because of all the extra muscle.

 

[Mathb33]

Yeah when my gains stopped it was like someone flipped a switch.
As if my body freaked out because of all the extra muscle.

Yeah it’s like That for some people. First time I upped my cruise/trt dose up to 500mg I gained about 17 lbs then week 7-8 it stopped completly. I upped my calories to 4.5k a day (yes yes a real 4.5k a days) and wouldn’t gain **** not even fat. I added NPP (fast acting deca) and I’m already +6 lbs 8 days after starting it. I’ll probably keep it like that and i know I’ll keep gaining until maybe week 5-6 on it then it’ll stall so I’ll up my test dose to 600-700 and it’ll give me a little boost again before going back to cruise

 

[Mathb33]

My test dose up* lol

 

[Matthersby]

It happens to a lot of us. Switch drugs more or up your doses. Your body can’t adjust to increases or variations that quickly.
I feel like once you’re on TRT, you can go from 200 to 1000 and it’s not going to be that great of a difference, that’s why few of us do it, add in a good oral, a nandrolone, or Trest, or DHB, and you’ll likely see twice as much gains as just upping your test. I mean, I do it for the hell of it, but I’m never impressed for long.

 

[Old Witch]

It happens to a lot of us. Switch drugs more or up your doses. Your body can’t adjust to increases or variations that quickly.
I feel like once you’re on TRT, you can go from 200 to 1000 and it’s not going to be that great of a difference, that’s why few of us do it, add in a good oral, a nandrolone, or Trest, or DHB, and you’ll likely see twice as much gains as just upping your test. I mean, I do it for the hell of it, but I’m never impressed for long.

Yeah I’ve always preferred ramping the dose up along the way, but usually opt to just ride a number til it stops working then increase instead because it’s simpler.

 

[Lowkii]

Here we go again. Another clueless newbie. So, you've ran 500mg of Test and think you've got it all figured out. There is no such thing as "androgen receptor desensitization" If the receptor theory held weight trt patients would have to up their dose all the time... The body will always be stimulated to produce more receptors to increase efficiency. Think of the new trainee starting his first weight lifting program. At first the gains are very noticeable, but slow over time. This doesn't mean that the receptors are "fully saturated" they just need more to stimulate the recruitment of new receptors for the dose. You either switch up compounds or increase the dose, and the gains should be coming along once again. If receptor saturation happened then how do the pros get so big without coming off? It's a myth.

 

[Mathb33]

My man came up a bit savage but I agree with how he thinks on the subject

 

[Old Witch]

Here we go again. Another clueless newbie. So, you've ran 500mg of Test and think you've got it all figured out. There is no such thing as "androgen receptor desensitization" If the receptor theory held weight trt patients would have to up their dose all the time... The body will always be stimulated to produce more receptors to increase efficiency. Think of the new trainee starting his first weight lifting program. At first the gains are very noticeable, but slow over time. This doesn't mean that the receptors are "fully saturated" they just need more to stimulate the recruitment of new receptors for the dose. You either switch up compounds or increase the dose, and the gains should be coming along once again. If receptor saturation happened then how do the pros get so big without coming off? It's a myth.

Well... no. Trt patients would definitely not need to up their dose. Your brain doesn’t need to output more phenylethylamine over time, yet those receptors are subject to desensitization when stimulated too often (supraphysiological dosage)

It is exactly the same and no different. Supraphysiological dosages are the important factor. If it’s a human dose, receptors will not down regulate. It’s how the body works.

 

[CroLifter]

Here we go again. Another clueless newbie. So, you've ran 500mg of Test and think you've got it all figured out. There is no such thing as "androgen receptor desensitization" If the receptor theory held weight trt patients would have to up their dose all the time... The body will always be stimulated to produce more receptors to increase efficiency. Think of the new trainee starting his first weight lifting program. At first the gains are very noticeable, but slow over time. This doesn't mean that the receptors are "fully saturated" they just need more to stimulate the recruitment of new receptors for the dose. You either switch up compounds or increase the dose, and the gains should be coming along once again. If receptor saturation happened then how do the pros get so big without coming off? It's a myth.

Well, then the body would have to constantly naturally be producing more testosterone.
I was thinking more along the lines of myostatin build up.

Also, don't you think that large amounts of GH pros take, which stimulates production of actual new muscle cells plays a big role and allows aas to take you a lot further? We are always theoretically limited in our growth capacity if all we use is aas (not saying i have come close to my limit, not even close)

Switching up the compound doesn't really make sense to me. They all bind to the androgen receptor, only with different affinities.

So you basically want to say that i have occupied as much receptors as 500mg per week can occupy? That would basically mean i have maxed out that dose? But i am pretty sure i still have some growth left for me on that dose.

My man came up a bit savage but I agree with how he thinks on the subject

Its alright, we are men full of test here .
I shouldnt have said androgen receptor desensitization, myostatin build up preventing further muscle growth is what entertains my mind atm.

 

[Old Witch]

Well, then the body would have to constantly naturally be producing more testosterone.
I was thinking more along the lines of myostatin build up.

Also, don't you think that large amounts of GH pros take, which stimulates production of actual new muscle cells plays a big role and allows aas to take you a lot further? We are always theoretically limited in our growth capacity if all we use is aas (not saying i have come close to my limit, not even close)

Switching up the compound doesn't really make sense to me. They all bind to the androgen receptor, only with different affinities.

So you basically want to say that i have occupied as much receptors as 500mg per week can occupy? That would basically mean i have maxed out that dose? But i am pretty sure i still have some growth left for me on that dose.


Its alright, we are men full of test here .
I shouldnt have said androgen receptor desensitization, myostatin build up preventing further muscle growth is what entertains my mind atm.

They don’t just bind with different affinity, they bind with different surface area as well. So the contact points are different. They have different effects because of differential stimulation caused by this.

That’s why drugs like primo and dhb massively consign stem cells for use as muscle tissue whereas drugs like Deca and anavar have strong collagen building effects, and on different types of fibers than each other.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

Well, then the body would have to constantly naturally be producing more testosterone.
I was thinking more along the lines of myostatin build up.

Also, don't you think that large amounts of GH pros take, which stimulates production of actual new muscle cells plays a big role and allows aas to take you a lot further? We are always theoretically limited in our growth capacity if all we use is aas (not saying i have come close to my limit, not even close)

Switching up the compound doesn't really make sense to me. They all bind to the androgen receptor, only with different affinities.

So you basically want to say that i have occupied as much receptors as 500mg per week can occupy? That would basically mean i have maxed out that dose? But i am pretty sure i still have some growth left for me on that dose.


Its alright, we are men full of test here .
I shouldnt have said androgen receptor desensitization, myostatin build up preventing further muscle growth is what entertains my mind atm.

Androgen Receptor Regulation - MESO-Rx

One of the most common beliefs concerning anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) usage is that the androgen receptor (AR) downregulates as a result of such

www.mesomorphosis.com

Thats Bill Roberts on androgen receptor regulation. Basically, if anything, the more gear you use, the better it works, given that you are starting at a similar weight and level of muscular development. ...But if you're already 40 lbs over your natty limit (set point) even 5 grams of gear a week might not raise your new set point any more.

GH raises your set point further due to muscle hyperplasia i.e. new muscle cells.

And yeah, I'm speculating on this one, but looking at those myostatin free Belgian Blue bulls, it would seem that myostatin may indeed be the primary determinant of final muscular set point.

Hope that helps.

 

[Renew1]

Androgen Receptor Regulation - MESO-Rx

One of the most common beliefs concerning anabolic-androgenic steroid (AAS) usage is that the androgen receptor (AR) downregulates as a result of such

www.mesomorphosis.com

Thats Bill Roberts on androgen receptor regulation. Basically, if anything, the more gear you use, the better it works, given that you are starting at a similar weight and level of muscular development. ...But if you're already 40 lbs over your natty limit (set point) even 5 grams of gear a week might not raise your new set point any more.

GH raises your set point further due to muscle hyperplasia i.e. new muscle cells.

And yeah, I'm speculating on this one, but looking at those myostatin free Belgian Blue bulls, it would seem that myostatin may indeed be the primary determinant of final muscular set point.

Hope that helps.

Most of us have read his point of view, whether or not we agree with it.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

Most of us have read his point of view, whether or not we agree with it.

Point taken. I'm leaning more towards his viewpoint after recently losing a significant amount of muscle mass, and restarting AAS use. After using unnecessary, and frankly obscene amounts of gear in the past, I fully expected my receptors to laugh at my roughly 350mg a week of gear, but the opposite seems to be happening. I guess I should have added the IME instead of quoting Bill like gospel lol...

 

[Renew1]

Point taken. I'm leaning more towards his viewpoint after recently losing a significant amount of muscle mass, and restarting AAS use. After using unnecessary, and frankly obscene amounts of gear in the past, I fully expected my receptors to laugh at my roughly 350mg a week of gear, but the opposite seems to be happening. I guess I should have added the IME instead of quoting Bill like gospel lol...

There's been some pretty hearty debates on it here.
How long were you off AAS?
What are you starting back with, 350 Test?

 

[DaveyCrockett]

There's been some pretty hearty debates on it here.
How long were you off AAS?
What are you starting back with, 350 Test?

Off roughly 8 weeks but was running EQ so that stayed in a little longer. Test was tanked cuz I'd been blasting up to 3g a week of various compounds and "cruising" at about 3-500 test when things got sketchy.

Lost muscle mass due to a protracted detox from opiods and other recreational substances that left me physically and mentally in pretty bad shape. I've rebounded into training from detox before, with no AAS use, and a fairly chronic low T condition (<200 total on avg.)....so I know how it usually goes.....

But starting back up I used a vial of mix I had at .5ml e5d (200 test e/200 deca/100 tren e per ml) for a weekly total of 140/140/70.

No estrogen issues to speak of, junk woke back up (my little guy was dead to the world after my T had tanked lol), and I'm up roughly 12 lbs in the 6 weeks I've been back on.

I guess what convinced me that my body is responding very well to small amounts of gear is the much leaner gains, quicker recovery, and VERY rapid strength increases.

Also, did run 10mg dbol daily wk2-4, and 20mg wks 5-6. Wasn't as bloaty as I'd heard lol.

 

[Renew1]

Off roughly 8 weeks but was running EQ so that stayed in a little longer. Test was tanked cuz I'd been blasting up to 3g a week of various compounds and "cruising" at about 3-500 test when things got sketchy.

Lost muscle mass due to a protracted detox from opiods and other recreational substances that left me physically and mentally in pretty bad shape. I've rebounded into training from detox before, with no AAS use, and a fairly chronic low T condition (<200 total on avg.)....so I know how it usually goes.....

But starting back up I used a vial of mix I had at .5ml e5d (200 test e/200 deca/100 tren e per ml) for a weekly total of 140/140/70.

No estrogen issues to speak of, junk woke back up (my little guy was dead to the world after my T had tanked lol), and I'm up roughly 12 lbs in the 6 weeks I've been back on.

I guess what convinced me that my body is responding very well to small amounts of gear is the much leaner gains, quicker recovery, and VERY rapid strength increases.

Also, did run 10mg dbol daily wk2-4, and 20mg wks 5-6. Wasn't as bloaty as I'd heard lol.

I'm glad to hear that you're doing well brother.
Yeah, Dbol treats people differently. It isn't one of my favorites, personally. .... But obviously, some guys do really well with it.
Keep up the good work man!

Personally, if it were me, I'd be really slow to ramp up doages. See what you can get out of the lower end for a while. It seems to be going great so far.

 

[Matthersby]

Off roughly 8 weeks but was running EQ so that stayed in a little longer. Test was tanked cuz I'd been blasting up to 3g a week of various compounds and "cruising" at about 3-500 test when things got sketchy.

Lost muscle mass due to a protracted detox from opiods and other recreational substances that left me physically and mentally in pretty bad shape. I've rebounded into training from detox before, with no AAS use, and a fairly chronic low T condition (
But starting back up I used a vial of mix I had at .5ml e5d (200 test e/200 deca/100 tren e per ml) for a weekly total of 140/140/70.

No estrogen issues to speak of, junk woke back up (my little guy was dead to the world after my T had tanked lol), and I'm up roughly 12 lbs in the 6 weeks I've been back on.

I guess what convinced me that my body is responding very well to small amounts of gear is the much leaner gains, quicker recovery, and VERY rapid strength increases.

Also, did run 10mg dbol daily wk2-4, and 20mg wks 5-6. Wasn't as bloaty as I'd heard lol.

Welcome bro.
Lots of guys recovering from something on here, myself included.
You’ll make a good addition to some of these discussions with your experiences with AAS.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

I'm glad to hear that you're doing well brother.
Yeah, Dbol treats people differently. It isn't one of my favorites, personally. .... But obviously, some guys do really well with it.
Keep up the good work man!

Personally, if it were me, I'd be really slow to ramp up doages. See what you can get out of the lower end for a while. It seems to be going great so far.

Thanks, I appreciate it. Yeah I'll be phasing out the dbol this week to see how my definition and measurements are without all the intramuscular fluid. I hate it though, cuz for me dbol was an awesome preworkout. Lifted mood too. I put a thread up in over 35 section and I'll keep updating it over the next few weeks. I may stop at 10 weeks and drop down to TRT at 150mg....I plan on continuing to cycle, but at reasonable dosages.

 

[Renew1]

Thanks, I appreciate it. Yeah I'll be phasing out the dbol this week to see how my definition and measurements are without all the intramuscular fluid. I hate it though, cuz for me dbol was an awesome preworkout. Lifted mood too. I put a thread up in over 35 section and I'll keep updating it over the next few weeks. I may stop at 10 weeks and drop down to TRT at 150mg....I plan on continuing to cycle, but at reasonable dosages.

Thanks man, I'll check out your thread.

 

[Matthersby]

Thanks, I appreciate it. Yeah I'll be phasing out the dbol this week to see how my definition and measurements are without all the intramuscular fluid. I hate it though, cuz for me dbol was an awesome preworkout. Lifted mood too. I put a thread up in over 35 section and I'll keep updating it over the next few weeks. I may stop at 10 weeks and drop down to TRT at 150mg....I plan on continuing to cycle, but at reasonable dosages.

I think you’re in a good position to run Dbol, not a lot of fat on you, and the dopamine increase would be good for you in recovery.
I don’t even bother with 40-50mg/day any more, get great gains from 20-30 and all the good effects too.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

Welcome bro.
Lots of guys recovering from something on here, myself included.
You’ll make a good addition to some of these discussions with your experiences with AAS.

Thanks. It took me a while to pull the trigger on a forum that seemed to fit me. Above all else I want to learn, and maybe share info or experience that helps someone else. There's plenty of ways to cause permanent damage with AAS, I'm all about harm reduction. Thanks for the warm welcome.

 

[Matthersby]

I'm glad to hear that you're doing well brother.
Yeah, Dbol treats people differently. It isn't one of my favorites, personally. .... But obviously, some guys do really well with it.
Keep up the good work man!

Personally, if it were me, I'd be really slow to ramp up doages. See what you can get out of the lower end for a while. It seems to be going great so far.

Man life isn’t the same without Renew “likes”
on here.
Hope you’re doing good bro.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

I think you’re in a good position to run Dbol, not a lot of fat on you, and the dopamine increase would be good for you in recovery.
I don’t even bother with 40-50mg/day any more, get great gains from 20-30 and all the good effects too.

With all I'd heard, I was surprised at the lack of estrogenic activity in my body. I figured with the 19-nors, the test, and dbol aromatizing to methylestradiol, I'd be in trouble. First itchy nipple was on a day I tried 40mg so that kinda helped me pick the dose....

 

[Matthersby]

With all I'd heard, I was surprised at the lack of estrogenic activity in my body. I figured with the 19-nors, the test, and dbol aromatizing to methylestradiol, I'd be in trouble. First itchy nipple was on a day I tried 40mg so that kinda helped me pick the dose....

Ya it’s a true pain in the ass at that dose or even higher. I had like 1000 tabs so of course I’ve ran it a lot the last 2 years just out of convenience and 30 will do everything 50 will do without insane bloat 20 is damn nice and you’ll get great strength gains and some good size increase. It’s really a great drug even if you do lose 30% of it minimum for this reason: you feel good on it, it doesn’t crush your energy, awesome noticeable strength increases daily(you can keep those as far as I’m concerned - most of it) and it’s gentle at those doses on everything, limited lethargy and liver strain. I have no interest in eating 5mg Letro daily and scrounging for Nolvadex and Ralox all the time to run stupid high doses of it.

You may have seen less issues methylestradiol from the other injectables you were running possibly. It can dry out from other stuff added and you need less AI, but I forgot what you said you were running.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

Ya it’s a true pain in the ass at that dose or even higher. I had like 1000 tabs so of course I’ve ran it a lot the last 2 years just out of convenience and 30 will do everything 50 will do without insane bloat 20 is damn nice and you’ll get great strength gains and some good size increase. It’s really a great drug even if you do lose 30% of it minimum for this reason: you feel good on it, it doesn’t crush your energy, awesome noticeable strength increases daily(you can keep those as far as I’m concerned - most of it) and it’s gentle at those doses on everything, limited lethargy and liver strain. I have no interest in eating 5mg Letro daily and scrounging for Nolvadex and Ralox all the time to run stupid high doses of it.

You may have seen less issues methylestradiol from the other injectables you were running possibly. It can dry out from other stuff added and you need less AI, but I forgot what you said you were running.

Agreed on the Letro, man. When I was running stupid high doses of wet compounds, the Letro I required kinda made the whole thing a bummer sometimes with joint pain and lowered sex drive. Not to mention I have pre AAS gyno so Letro or no Letro, I was terrified of waking up one cup size higher lol. I actually have 1g of raw arimidex coming this week just in case, but I don't want to jack with my lipids unless necessary.

 

[CroLifter]

I may be just another damn clueless newbie but i can see what the f is going on with my body. I have been 110kg for the past 5 weeks and yet even though my diet and training hasn't changed I am gaining fat and losing strength. Yes, i did drain around 1000ml of blood and that decapitated my strength in itself but still i cant hit the numbers i was hitting on week 6-7, and right now i am still at the same weight, just fatter.
The biggest give away for me, except more bodyfat, is the loss of constantly pumped state and much smaller pumps during training. Also, lethargy. My e2 is in range and its the same gear throughout the whole time.
So something is going on. We will see how my body is going to behave on 125mg per week.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

I'm interested. If you've been stalled (moving backwards a little even) I def. want to hear what dropping to TRT dose does.

 

[CroLifter]

For all we know it could be some underlying medical condition as there is no logical explanation to be regressing on 500mg of testosterone enanthate per week.

edit: i am brutally honest, if i kept progressing throughout the whole time like i did for the first 6 weeks i would be 120kg by now.

One more interesting thing i have to say is that along with my delts and traps which I obviously expected to blow up my obliques grew a lot to the point where i have a full blown "adonis belt" even though i didnt get any leaner on this blast, i concentrated on gaining weight.
Previously i barely had any outlines in the oblique area, even when I was leaner.

 

[Old Witch]

Key factors: diet and training have not changed

Underlying factor: dosage has not increased.

Solution: change diet and training to support more lean tissue at your new set point.

 

[CroLifter]

Key factors: diet and training have not changed

Underlying factor: dosage has not increased.

Solution: change diet and training to support more lean tissue at your new set point.

I will be focusing on a strength based program and maintenance calories on a trt dose.

 

[Old Witch]

I’m not really sure how long you’ve been at this trying to gain lean tissue in general, but as you grow and get leaner you will notice more in changes via diet.

So once you become quite lean, carb cycling becomes necessary to stay as lean and continue to grow, also, protein requirements will increase. Fat requirements never change. Though you may find you do better on more when there are less carbs to be had.

 

[DaveyCrockett]

Key factors: diet and training have not changed

Underlying factor: dosage has not increased.

Solution: change diet and training to support more lean tissue at your new set point.

.....sounds painful .....is painful....probably why ive chosen MORE GEAR so many times lol

 

[Old Witch]

.....sounds painful .....is painful....probably why ive chosen MORE GEAR so many times lol

Same.

 

[CroLifter]

I’m not really sure how long you’ve been at this trying to gain lean tissue in general, but as you grow and get leaner you will notice more in changes via diet.

So once you become quite lean, carb cycling becomes necessary to stay as lean and continue to grow, also, protein requirements will increase. Fat requirements never change. Though you may find you do better on more when there are less carbs to be had.

Well, since i will be cruising for a while (true trt dose, not 200-250 per week) i am not really going to be in a position to build more muscle. I hope to maintain the mass i got and maybe gain some strength through improving neural efficiency.

 

[Old Witch]

Well, since i will be cruising for a while (true trt dose, not 200-250 per week) i am not really going to be in a position to build more muscle. I hope to maintain the mass i got and maybe gain some strength through improving neural efficiency.

Well if you’ve already been on cycle and training hard for over six weeks I’m betting your nerves are actually not in any position to be trained at this point. They need rest. Just an educated guess.

 

[CroLifter]

Well if you’ve already been on cycle and training hard for over six weeks I’m betting your nerves are actually not in any position to be trained at this point. They need rest. Just an educated guess.

I am right about to go on vacation and will take 10 days off completely.

 

[CroLifter]

Well if you’ve already been on cycle and training hard for over six weeks I’m betting your nerves are actually not in any position to be trained at this point. They need rest. Just an educated guess.

I am right about to go on vacation and will take 10 days off completely.