Steroid or Prohormone that helps cut visceral fat

[mrrobot]

I'm getting great results with calorie deficit but it's only affecting my subq fat which is almost gone now, it looks like.

I'm currently ramping up a blast of test, deca, masteron and var

I know the test and deca are probably not helping, while anavar is supposed to help.

What else could I take instead for visceral fat?

I'm open to anything but weight-loss stuff (which I'll research separately) and tren, or maybe I could do tren,

I can't dry out my joints though, and I'm going to stick with some deca. I'm struggling with lifter's shoulder as it is.

My stomach bulges with visceral fat, and I don't do GH and only some peptides which I will be stopping.

What injectables, orals or exotic (to me) prohormones are good here?

Thanks!

 

[Whisky]

In reality no steroid or pro helps to cut fat bro. A calorie deficit cuts fat and the gear just maintains the muscle (there are some other mechanisms like increased metabolism which make some aas better suited for cutting but generally speaking the above is true)

in reality you have two supplement based ways to reduce fat

1) supplements that improve fat mobilisation so it is then burn for fuel more readily (gh and peptides for example). Tesamorelin is the most effective, specifically for visceral fat, if you can find it (and afford it)

2) supplements that increase calorie expenditure (I.e clen)

both still need a calorie deficit to work

 

[Kronic]

Afaik for visceral fat you are looking at making it so your liver doesn't have any extra fat to pack on. This means no booze. Consider cutting down on sugar, especially in the evenings. Fasting should be good for visceral fat too. I did a killer 1 meal a day carnivore diet IF month that helped with my vodka belly

 

[Smont]

No steroid is going to really target fat loss, all steroids will make building muscle easier and burning fat easier overall and no steroid is counterproductive for cutting, some guys use dbol in contest prep. A crappy diet or being too high in bodyfat will determine weather or not a steroid boosts you which is just water anyway but that's besides the point. You can get shredded on anything. Unfortunately its diet that is king. Abs are made in the kitchen. You can get just as fat on tren as you can on dbol of your eating crappy. Cut the calories or up the cardio.

Just curious, how much cardio do you do per week. Not counting walking or walking on a treadmill, heart rate elevated cardio

 

[MadStax]

Just take a high dose of an oral. It'll kill your appetite and you'll lose the fat. In 12 weeks I dropped from 12.2 to 7.4% because I couldn't eat or sleep. Lol

 

[thebigt]

if you don't run-start...3-5 miles daily for a noobie to running will cause fat to drop like kammy on da willie.

 

[mrrobot]

I do an hour of elliptical but not fasted. My diet is 100% clean, no alcohol, and enough of a deficit to now not feel any need to cut subq fat (I don't compete).

I think it's possible that some steroids or prohormones are better for cutting fat, but I'm just basing that on observing bros talking to each other online. Tren and Trest come up a lot. I know I've read at least one legitimate study of Anavar and visceral fat vs. subq, but one study doesn't prove anything and yet is enough supply for years of forum talk.

My problem isn't how to cut fat in general, but how to address this GH-abuser belly, although I don't do GH, or drink, or eat a surplus or anything like that.

It's like the visceral fat is super resistant. I know I could attack it with keto and fasting and fasted exercise, but I'm looking right now for info on drugs, man!

I did buy a vial of Tesamorelin stupidly without looking at the dosages required. When I later looked up how many doses my $85 vial would give me, I wished I had instead just lit the money on fire, which would have been more entertaining.

 

[mrrobot]

Just take a high dose of an oral. It'll kill your appetite and you'll lose the fat. In 12 weeks I dropped from 12.2 to 7.4% because I couldn't eat or sleep. Lol

what's a good oral for that? I do find the Anavar I'm taking doesn't encourage appetite

 

[MadStax]

what's a good oral for that? I do find the Anavar I'm taking doesn't encourage appetite

For me it was Winny at 90mg/day. I worked hard in the gym and the food I did eat was clean.

 

[Smont]

I like to take berberine

what's a good oral for that? I do find the Anavar I'm taking doesn't encourage appetite

Sniffing coke or meth kills your appetite but that dont mean it's a good idea. Do not take high doses of orals just to kill your hunger, that's a terrible idea. Steroids build muscle, you use them to build muscle or maintain muscle while in a severe deficit. Things like Mast, winni and tren will definitely harden you up if your already sub 10% bodyfat or in that ballpark. Bit there not going to specifically target that fat. Tren makes you burn more calories for sure, but so does cardio and one is very good for your health and the other is terrible. Gh gut is from very high doses of gh combined with slin and too much food. No1 is getting a gh gut from 2-6 iu per day.

Fasted cardio dosent make a huge difference. get in your 30min of cardio per day minimum, pick something more intense then a elliptical. be in a calorie deficit worthy of your goal. Stick with the cycle your on and keep the low dose gh

 

[Smont]

It cut off my post, berberine with all your carb meals will help partition and keep glucose levels stable leading to better body composition

 

[MadStax]

What I did is definitely not the healthy or right way to go about things. I was mostly joking with my initial reply. I don't recommend it, as it was 12 weeks of hell! I was pinning Test, GH, Deca, and Tren as well as the high dose Winny. I'm sure I shaved months off the end of my life with that one!

 

[Smont]

For me it was Winny at 90mg/day. I worked hard in the gym and the food I did eat was clean.

Just curious, do all orals kill your appetite or was it when you get to a certain dose. I see so many ppl say anadrol or winny or sd killthere appitate, they all make me hungry lol

 

[MadStax]

Just curious, do all orals kill your appetite or was it when you get to a certain dose. I see so many ppl say anadrol or winny or sd killthere appitate, they all make me hungry lol

At 60mg I was eating everything in sight! At 90mg I had to force feed myself shakes.

Also, have done Anavar and not had issues with appetite, even at 80mg.

 

[Smont]

What I did is definitely not the healthy or right way to go about things. I was mostly joking with my initial reply. I don't recommend it, as it was 12 weeks of hell! I was pinning Test, GH, Deca, and Tren as well as the high dose Winny. I'm sure I shaved months off the end of my life with that one!

I've tried many orals in ridiculous doses so I'm not pointing any fingers.

 

[mrrobot]

This is a study that seems to indicate that different compounds do affect what kinds of fat loss or gain occurs.
Anavar comes off good for visceral fat whereas Test and Deca do not.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8574271/

 

[mrrobot]

I like to take berberine
Sniffing coke or meth kills your appetite but that dont mean it's a good idea. Do not take high doses of orals just to kill your hunger, that's a terrible idea. Steroids build muscle, you use them to build muscle or maintain muscle while in a severe deficit. Things like Mast, winni and tren will definitely harden you up if your already sub 10% bodyfat or in that ballpark. Bit there not going to specifically target that fat. Tren makes you burn more calories for sure, but so does cardio and one is very good for your health and the other is terrible. Gh gut is from very high doses of gh combined with slin and too much food. No1 is getting a gh gut from 2-6 iu per day.

Fasted cardio dosent make a huge difference. get in your 30min of cardio per day minimum, pick something more intense then a elliptical. be in a calorie deficit worthy of your goal. Stick with the cycle your on and keep the low dose gh

I'm not looking to kill the appetite since I have complete control over my diet no problem (on lock down, I do). I was just curious about something someone said.

Also, I'm just comparing my gut to competing bodybuilders these days, doing the GH. I'm not doing GH myself. It was just a figure of speech. A metaphor. Bad choice.

I was interested in Berberine and Metformin but got turned off by the studies that show decreased positive effects from both cardio and resistance training.

I do take Telismarten for the secondary metabolic effects as well as mild elevation of bp with the anabolics.

 

[Smont]

This is a study that seems to indicate that different compounds do affect what kinds of fat loss or gain occurs.
Anavar comes off good for visceral fat whereas Test and Deca do not.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8574271/

As I'm sure you already know, 99% of studies on performance enhancing drugs and training ect dont pan out in real life. Those studies are rarely if ever done on hard training people in real life scenarios. You can look up all the studies you want and try every drug there is and the results never match the studies. I feel like your not going to accept any advise unless it's a steroid or steroid like compound to take.

Tren, gh, dnp, clen t3/t4. Those are the things that work best if your relying on hormones over diet. You can get shredded to the bone with zero drugs. But those drugs are the best for reaching a shredded body.

 

[Smont]

I box 3 times a week and berberine dosen't hinder performance at all in my opinion.

 

[Smont]

I dont mean to sound like a ass with that post, I'm just getting to the point that I think your looking for

 

[johnny412]

It cut off my post, berberine with all your carb meals will help partition and keep glucose levels stable leading to better body composition

love berberine reordering right now

 

[johnny412]

"I was interested in Berberine and Metformin but got turned off by the studies that show decreased positive effects from both cardio and resistance training"
wtf? thats nonsense!

 

[Smont]

love berberine reordering right now

Its become a staple supplement for me, I take 1000mg 2x day with my biggest meals

 

[Smont]

"I was interested in Berberine and Metformin but got turned off by the studies that show decreased positive effects from both cardio and resistance training"
wtf? thats nonsense!

Another example of studies not applying to real life when it comes to gym folk.

Studies are awsome to see the effects drugs have on elderly ppl, untrained individuals and people with wasting diseases.

 

[Whisky]

As I'm sure you already know, 99% of studies on performance enhancing drugs and training ect dont pan out in real life. Those studies are rarely if ever done on hard training people in real life scenarios. You can look up all the studies you want and try every drug there is and the results never match the studies. I feel like your not going to accept any advise unless it's a steroid or steroid like compound to take.

Tren, gh, dnp, clen t3/t4. Those are the things that work best if your relying on hormones over diet. You can get shredded to the bone with zero drugs. But those drugs are the best for reaching a shredded body.

exactly this.

you can also find counter studies for most of this. Study design with anabolics is a massive problem for us as it is very very rarely (almost never) done with the aim of establishing whether an anabolic will achieve a bodybuilding goal. It’s all done for medical reasons with cohorts who simply aren’t the same as us.

 

[Smont]

If you never worked out or dieted seriously for a extended period of time or have never used anabolics then studies might tip more twords your favor. But once you have ran a cycle or 2 and spent time busting ass they go out the window. I've tried using way to much gear for someone my size and there was no additional benifits at 1600 total mg vs 600 mg. Then I got fat and dieted on trt only and that left me at where I am now. Not very big but in better shape then I've been in most of the past 2 years. The point I'm trying to make is I've tried a lot of different things to reach different goals and at the end of the day the drugs never really made a big difference. It was always the diet and training that dictated what the drugs did

 

[Smont]

This is last year, getting fat while on a cycle, I got strong but made no improvements in body composition this cycle, I got worse by a long shot

 

[Smont]

This is on trt, not doing a ton of lifting and doing some boxing workouts but my diet was on point

 

[Smont]

I know I dont look like anything special but I'm trying to show that the diet comes first, training second and the drugs 3rd. And that the choice of drugs dosen't matter as much as we like to think it does

 

[johnny412]

Its become a staple supplement for me, I take 1000mg 2x day with my biggest meals

me too!

 

[thebigt]

3km sprint jog daily (post work out) made me the leanest i have ever been ...

OP, just get that heart rate way up, eat right, and it will come off

for some reason a lot of guys who are avid lifters seem to have a aversion to running...i've been around this game for a long time and tried every type of cardio, there is something about running that makes it unique...if you want to cut weight or just maintain a lean and healthy body i recommend to-RUN LIKE HELL in the words of my favorite group, pink floyd!!!!

 

[Smont]

for some reason a lot of guys who are avid lifters seem to have a aversion to running...i've been around this game for a long time and tried every type of cardio, there is something about running that makes it unique...if you want to cut weight or just maintain a lean and healthy body i recommend to-RUN LIKE HELL in the words of my favorite group, pink floyd!!!!

Ppl are afraid of cardio because they think cardio and dieting means loosing muscle. Which is only true for people carrying massive amounts of muscle. Or crash diets. I dont reccomend long distance like 8+ miles daily, but running but 2-3 miles a day is great. If you cant handle running outside or forced to do it on equipment, I'd bet you need double the time at the same intensity on a elliptical or bike to match running outdoors

 

[UNX]

Perhaps touching the cortisol pathway could help? There's a relationship between cortisol and visceral fat.

 

[thebigt]

Ppl are afraid of cardio because they think cardio and dieting means loosing muscle. Which is only true for people carrying massive amounts of muscle. Or crash diets. I dont reccomend long distance like 8+ miles daily, but running but 2-3 miles a day is great. If you cant handle running outside or forced to do it on equipment, I'd bet you need double the time at the same intensity on a elliptical or bike to match running outdoors

on paper you would think if intensity were the same that running on a treadmill would = running outdoors, but in my many years of both, outdoors running where you are actually covering distance is far superior to indoor treadmill.

 

[Smont]

Perhaps touching the cortisol pathway could help? There's a relationship between cortisol and visceral fat.

I may be wrong, but I think high cortisol in relation to stress and lack of sleep has a relationship with visceral fat. So having cortisol in check will be good. But if its already in check then I dont believe you can do much in that area for increased fat loss.

Again, I'm not 100% on that, it's just how I've always understood it

 

[Smont]

on paper you would think if intensity were the same that running on a treadmill would = running outdoors, but in my many years of both, outdoors running where you are actually covering distance is far superior to indoor treadmill.

On a treadmill your just repetitive, outdoors theres changes in elevations, up and down hills, stabilizer muscles keeping your balance as you step over rocks or curbs ect. So maybe intensity isint the right word, even tho you may be running the same pace, your intensity is higher outside because of all the differences you wont find on a stationary piece of equipment.

Man we took this thread for a ride lol

 

[thebigt]

On a treadmill your just repetitive, outdoors theres changes in elevations, up and down hills, stabilizer muscles keeping your balance as you step over rocks or curbs ect. So maybe intensity isint the right word, even tho you may be running the same pace, your intensity is higher outside because of all the differences you wont find on a stationary piece of equipment.

Man we took this thread for a ride lol

lol...as a long time runner/lifter i just find this topic interesting.

 

[MadStax]

Running/intense cardio will cause muscle loss, unless you're eating a surplus of calories to cover the loss to cardio. Even then, you'll lose some muscle.

If you're eating right and training hard, you should be able to put that muscle back on without putting the fat back on. That's the key to success imo.

 

[thebigt]

Running/intense cardio will cause muscle loss, unless you're eating a surplus of calories to cover the loss to cardio. Even then, you'll lose some muscle.

If you're eating right and training hard, you should be able to put that muscle back on without putting the fat back on. That's the key to success imo.

this is where bb'ers fall into the trap of only looking at short term goals...most don't look at the last part of your post.

 

[BBiceps]

The point I'm trying to make is I've tried a lot of different things to reach different goals and at the end of the day the drugs never really made a big difference. It was always the diet and training that dictated what the drugs did

This is 100% true and ppl forget/don’t want to believe it.

 

[Whisky]

Perhaps touching the cortisol pathway could help?

this sounds like something I should ask my girl to do

 

[mrrobot]

I box 3 times a week and berberine dosen't hinder performance at all in my opinion.

It's not about perceived performance but about gains. With n=1 you have no way knowing what would happen without the berberine during the time period that just passed.

The research shows a pretty solid explanation about why muscle protein synthesis would be inhibited by berberine and metformin, having to do with AMPK, and they have clinical results to show this pans out in real people (meaning not gaining as much as others, rather than not gaining at all). However, my one question is does AAS overwhelm this significant decrease in muscle synthesis. Not tested, obviously, because, like, who cares what we want to know.

 

[mrrobot]

I may be wrong, but I think high cortisol in relation to stress and lack of sleep has a relationship with visceral fat. So having cortisol in check will be good. But if its already in check then I dont believe you can do much in that area for increased fat loss.

Again, I'm not 100% on that, it's just how I've always understood it

Yeah this it true, I might have something going on with that. I'm definitely not stressed though, so if there is a cortisol problem it would be via some other mechanism. In which case there are prohormones that specifically target cortisol, although I forget what they are and what the sides are.

Come to think of it, sleep apnea could be a cortisol culprit and that is known to increase with testosterone supplementation. I wonder if that could be enough reason.

So anyways, back on the hormones question (i'll also go to the sleep apnea forum wherever that is) -- I'm going to look into these anti-cortisol hormones some more. I think they are cutting substances. You guys probably know them off the back of your hand.

 

[mrrobot]

This is 100% true and ppl forget/don’t want to believe it.

No, it's that there isn't much to wonder about there. Here, I'm inquiring into what else besides that, since I've cut about what I can. I'm not the only guy in the world who has this strange thing with visceral fat. It can just be dismissed, like, I don't want to think about that so I'll stick with calories in, calories out. It's a real thing, but only people who are interested in it I suppose have anything to wonder about it.

 

[BBiceps]

No, it's that there isn't much to wonder about there. Here, I'm inquiring into what else besides that, since I've cut about what I can. I'm not the only guy in the world who has this strange thing with visceral fat. It can just be dismissed, like, I don't want to think about that so I'll stick with calories in, calories out. It's a real thing, but only people who are interested in it I suppose have anything to wonder about it.

I didn’t refer to you, just in general ppl think that if you take steroids you will instantly transform into a stage ready bodybuilder, besides that I have no idea what you’re talking about.

 

[mrrobot]

exactly this.

you can also find counter studies for most of this. Study design with anabolics is a massive problem for us as it is very very rarely (almost never) done with the aim of establishing whether an anabolic will achieve a bodybuilding goal. It’s all done for medical reasons with cohorts who simply aren’t the same as us.

I don't think you can find counter studies for this.

 

[mrrobot]

I know I dont look like anything special but I'm trying to show that the diet comes first, training second and the drugs 3rd. And that the choice of drugs dosen't matter as much as we like to think it does

great work!
Back on the topic of my post, as I was saying my diet is fine the last year on lockdown. I have complete control over all my food and over myself. I'm asking about something else that might make a difference for my condition, which I guess you can believe in or not. The answer might be, bros all agree there is nothing, so that's that.

 

[mrrobot]

Ppl are afraid of cardio because they think cardio and dieting means loosing muscle. Which is only true for people carrying massive amounts of muscle. Or crash diets. I dont reccomend long distance like 8+ miles daily, but running but 2-3 miles a day is great. If you cant handle running outside or forced to do it on equipment, I'd bet you need double the time at the same intensity on a elliptical or bike to match running outdoors

probably right about that.
But joints won't accept running and also the air is unbreathable where I live 4 months of the year.
Yet I dare anyone to go full sprint on an elliptical on high resistance for an hour. I certainly will never be able to do that so it is quite possible for me to push myself on an elliptical-- it's not the machine but the will that determines the limit.

 

[mrrobot]

3km sprint jog daily (post work out) made me the leanest i have ever been ...

OP, just get that heart rate way up, eat right, and it will come off

As I'm sure you already know, 99% of studies on performance enhancing drugs and training ect dont pan out in real life. Those studies are rarely if ever done on hard training people in real life scenarios. You can look up all the studies you want and try every drug there is and the results never match the studies. I feel like your not going to accept any advise unless it's a steroid or steroid like compound to take.

Tren, gh, dnp, clen t3/t4. Those are the things that work best if your relying on hormones over diet. You can get shredded to the bone with zero drugs. But those drugs are the best for reaching a shredded body.

I'm not relying on hormones over diet, I am asking a question about hormones that excludes diet, for the purpose of focus, on this board called anabolics.
It could be that bros all agree hormones don't matter, and that's the answer to my question.
Instead it's all about assuming I'm not on top of my diet and cardio, etc., one way to not be curious about the question of this visceral vs. subq fat issue.
But then there is a study that shows that hormones could possibly matter.
And it's instantly dismissed. I get that it's not bodybuilders but still there is a possibility and difference there. You could dismiss any study at all in this way. Literally any study.
That's just how people the world over close a loop around themselves to not let in any new information.

There's something weird going on with me. It's not just me. This is curious and interesting to me, but maybe not to anyone else. I am looking for something to get at it that is beyond diet and cardio, which I already know, because I'm curious that way.

Anyways thanks for the mentions of the substances.

 

[Whisky]

on paper you would think if intensity were the same that running on a treadmill would = running outdoors, but in my many years of both, outdoors running where you are actually covering distance is far superior to indoor treadmill.

this is true.

I don't think you can find counter studies for this.

Not sure specifically to what you are referring but you can literally find counter studies to anything.

hell there was a time (believe even as late as the 90s) that showed anabolic steroids weren’t performance enhancing.....

the main point is that very little literature exists showing the effect of anabolics purely for bodybuilding reasons..... studies are expensive so they are almost always done where there might be a medical application (which has a return on investment). Why would either medical company or a government department fund medical studies on the use of peds for aesthetic or bodybuilding reasons in a healthy cohort like us?