Guest viewing limit reached
  • You have reached the maximum number of guest views allowed
  • Please register below to remove this limitation

Starting hCG monotherapy

how much of improvement have you see for sex only since HCG, and what have the benefits of sex been since hcg
 
engival said:
how much of improvement have you see for sex only since HCG, and what have the benefits of sex been since hcg
Click to expand...

Better libido, erections, and morning wood WHEN I sleep ok. I believe the improvements are mainly due to E2 rising to healthy levels.
 
LeanGuy said:
yeah, about the same time... but I'm only taking HC 5-10mg (10 on workout days). I'll retest morning cortisol to make sure it isn't getting too high. I think I burn most of it off at the gym. I've heard some people say low dose HC helps with erections.
Click to expand...

I doubt you are burning it all off at the gym. That's a low dose, but I felt plenty from that much, fwiw. It could be playing a part in the compromised T and the sexual function, IMO.

Forgot to say, I hope you feel better soon. You've been at this too long, particularly for such a young guy. Hopefully the reward is a lifetime of health.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
Where is you E2 now?
Click to expand...

Last test was 21... its probably more now.

jinxie said:
I doubt you are burning it all off at the gym. That's a low dose, but I felt plenty from that much, fwiw. It could be playing a part in the compromised T and the sexual function, IMO.

Forgot to say, I hope you feel better soon. You've been at this too long, particularly for such a young guy. Hopefully the reward is a lifetime of health.
Click to expand...

Thanks Jinxie, I will retest the cortisol. The root of all my problems, including adrenal, is not being able to sleep. For example last night I only got 2 hrs. This is my typical night. I've been to 8+ local docs... time to drive up to Dr. Mariano.
 
LeanGuy said:
Last test was 21... its probably more now.



Thanks Jinxie, I will retest the cortisol. The root of all my problems, including adrenal, is not being able to sleep. For example last night I only got 2 hrs. This is my typical night. I've been to 8+ local docs... time to drive up to Dr. Mariano.
Click to expand...

When I crashed, after coming of T therapy my E2 was at 6, and I experienced libido issues. Of course it may also have been TT at 97. I've had E2 levels around 16 while on HCG and no libido issues. Have you tested DHT? If so, you'd see in a retest that it's elevated.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
When I crashed, after coming of T therapy my E2 was at 6, and I experienced libido issues. Of course it may also have been TT at 97. I've had E2 levels around 16 while on HCG and no libido issues. Have you tested DHT? If so, you'd see in a retest that it's elevated.
Click to expand...

I haven't tested DHT recently, but it has always been mid-range. I'll retest eventually as my budget allows.

engival said:
im sorry to hear you only get 2 hours of sleep a night....
Click to expand...

Thanks... it gets better and worse at times. I have high hopes for Dr. Mariano
 
LeanGuy said:
Thanks... it gets better and worse at times. I have high hopes for Dr. Mariano
Click to expand...

I take ZMA, 750 mg GABA, 5 mg melatonin and not only sleep like a rock, my IGF-1 is about 350 (slightly over top of range). GABA and melatonin have been shown to raise it.
 
LeanGuy said:
Last test was 21... its probably more now.



Thanks Jinxie, I will retest the cortisol. The root of all my problems, including adrenal, is not being able to sleep. For example last night I only got 2 hrs. This is my typical night. I've been to 8+ local docs... time to drive up to Dr. Mariano.
Click to expand...

Leanguy, I may be confusing you with someone else, but I thought you were taking Tenex or Clonidine to reduce norepinephrine at night, for sleep. Is that right?

Anyhow, it's interesting . . . I just learned that my cardiac med (coreg, an alpha, beta blocker) for dysautonomia was interfering with my sleep. Apparently beta blockers thwart natural melatonin production. I believe that Tenex and Clonidine have a different mechanism of action, but it's possible you could be having the same issue.

Have you tried Ambien or a benzo for sleep? You may not get restorative sleep, but you should get more than 2 hours.

IMO, you need a sleep study more than an adrenal work up. But that's just my opinion. As I've said before, I think the whole adrenal thing is overplayed on the boards, as is thyroid (though to a lesser degree). But whatever your primary issue is, I hope to hell it resolves soon!
 
I wouldn't bother spending the money if it's not an issue. HCG will push DHT to the top of the range and increase your libido, but it's unlikely to go too high.

LeanGuy said:
I haven't tested DHT recently, but it has always been mid-range. I'll retest eventually as my budget allows.



Thanks... it gets better and worse at times. I have high hopes for Dr. Mariano
Click to expand...
 
rick055 said:
I take ZMA, 750 mg GABA, 5 mg melatonin and not only sleep like a rock, my IGF-1 is about 350 (slightly over top of range). GABA and melatonin have been shown to raise it.
Click to expand...

I've tried these things and many more... works as well as a sugar pill for me. Strangely my IGF-1 is 321 with little sleep... go figure.

jinxie said:
Leanguy, I may be confusing you with someone else, but I thought you were taking Tenex or Clonidine to reduce norepinephrine at night, for sleep. Is that right?

Anyhow, it's interesting . . . I just learned that my cardiac med (coreg, an alpha, beta blocker) for dysautonomia was interfering with my sleep. Apparently beta blockers thwart natural melatonin production. I believe that Tenex and Clonidine have a different mechanism of action, but it's possible you could be having the same issue.

Have you tried Ambien or a benzo for sleep? You may not get restorative sleep, but you should get more than 2 hours.

IMO, you need a sleep study more than an adrenal work up. But that's just my opinion. As I've said before, I think the whole adrenal thing is overplayed on the boards, as is thyroid (though to a lesser degree). But whatever your primary issue is, I hope to hell it resolves soon!
Click to expand...

You are confusing me with someone else. I have never tried Tenex or Clonidine. I have tried ambien and lunesta... not strong enuf. Temazepam works pretty good but its a potent benzo and can't use it often due to tolerance. I think I'm gonna take one tonight tho :)

Can a sleep study detect anything other than apnea? I probably wouldn't sleep at all, just like when travelling.
 
Update

Had a followup dr. appt this week... my doc won't let me stay over 350iu HCG.. says it will increase E2 too much and won't give a script for adex.

I don't know if its the HCG or HC, but I've gained over 5 lbs in the past 60 days.. and it aint fat. Workouts have been much better too. I haven't been reaping the sexual or sleep benefits yet.

I have an appt. to see Dr. Mariano next month!! This should be good.
 
rick055 said:
Interesting, though I just came across this:

Jones, T. H., J. F. Darne, et al. (1994). "Diurnal rhythm of testosterone induced by human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) therapy in isolated hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism: a comparison between subcutaneous and intramuscular hCG administration." Eur J Endocrinol 131(2): 173-8.


When human chorionic gonadotrophin (hCG) is used to stimulate testosterone synthesis and release in males with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism, it is administered two or three times weekly by intramuscular injection. We have compared the pharmacokinetics of a twice weekly standard dose of hCG (5000 U) given for the first week by intramuscular injection and in the second week by self-administered subcutaneous injection. The patients studied had Kallmann's syndrome, isolated idiopathic hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism or post-traumatic isolated hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism. Salivary testosterone was collected twice daily at 08.00 h and 20.00 h, and serum testosterone was collected after 0, 24 h, 72 h, 120 h and 168 h each week. The cumulated serum and salivary testosterone levels were comparable on both intramuscular and subcutaneous hCG. In normal males there is diurnal variation in testosterone, with peak serum levels in the morning falling to a nadir in the evening. The exact nature and controlling factors of this circadian rhythm have not been established. In four of the subjects, the twice weekly hCG injections, either subcutaneous or intramuscular, produced a regular testosterone diurnal rhythm. The other four patients had fluctuations in testosterone but with no strict diurnal pattern. This study provides evidence that the luteinizing hormone-like action of hCG is necessary to prime the circadian rhythm but only a single bolus of hCG is sufficient to induce the rhythm in the absence of endogenous gonadotrophin production.

In conclusion, self-administered subcutaneous hCG is safe and produces comparable levels of serum and salivary testosterone to that administered by the intramuscular route. Moreover, it was very well accepted by the patients and was preferred to conventional treatments. Human hCG in some patients with hypogonadotrophic hypogonadism produces normal physiological changes in daily testosterone levels.

Wonder if bi-weekly T makes good use to establish an even baseline, with twice weekly HCG to attempt to induce diurnal T fluctuations (at least in secondary).
Click to expand...

Very Interesting Study.

I have always thought the circadian rhythm of testosterone levels are there for an important reason.

This study possibly demonstrates that something other than the strength of LH pulses regulates this daily variation.

I did not realise that hCG could replicate this in some men.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
I've been on monotherapy for three years and have seen my best results from bi - weekly injections - better then E3D or EOD. I would inject Wednesdays and Saturdays at night.
Click to expand...

I think this was the same for me. I tried daily, EOD and then twice weekly for some time and I think the less frequent yielded better results.

How good is your sexual function with this protocol? Are you able to perform daily or even more frequently?
 
mattmuscle said:
Very Interesting Study.

I have always thought the circadian rhythm of testosterone levels are there for an important reason.

This study possibly demonstrates that something other than the strength of LH pulses regulates this daily variation.

I did not realise that hCG could replicate this in some men.
Click to expand...

I wonder if it has something to do with the receptor sites being able to "reset" themselves.

Take for example Androgel. It peaks in the morning like natural production and decreases throughout the day. With an ester, the receptors really never "rest".
 
rick055 said:
I wonder if it has something to do with the receptor sites being able to "reset" themselves.

Take for example Androgel. It peaks in the morning like natural production and decreases throughout the day. With an ester, the receptors really never "rest".
Click to expand...

It could well be something to do with what you suggest.

I'm not actually sure how "stable" androgel is during the day once the user has been on it for a month or two. One would assume that it must peak after application and decline until the next morning.

Naturally our T levels start to rise after midnight and build during the sleep hours and peak on waking.
There have been studies done that show that young males actually have a higher sleep time level of T than middle aged men. There is more of a difference at night than during the day when comparing young and middle aged men. This higher level of T at night would be usefull to the body as this is when it does most of its repair work.

It could certainly be true of T injections, that the receptors never get a chance "to rest". Especially if T levels are kept at a high normal level.
Body builders know this very well, even though this is an extreme example.
Testosterone cannot be used above what the body knows as it genetic setpoint for T for very long before it stops responding to it.

Exceeding our unique setpoint just makes the body convert the T into other hormones as it goes into damage control.
 
Sore Nipples

Are sore nipples a sign of high E2? Mine are really sore, hurts to press on them. My pecs are also sore from friday's workout but I don't think its related. I've never has high E2 on any labs. And I don't have any adex.
 
Prolactin can also cause gyno. I am not sure, but I heard if you are prone to gyno you need to be careful with the hcg. I think that is estrogen related though. Could be nothing though.
 
jon671 said:
Prolactin can also cause gyno. I am not sure, but I heard if you are prone to gyno you need to be careful with the hcg. I think that is estrogen related though. Could be nothing though.
Click to expand...

Hcg causes increases in progesterone which causes gyno for people that are prone to it
 
P-5-P should help with the progesterone gyno side effects. I've been taking HCG for about 2 weeks now - 250iu every 3-4 days - and I'm fine so far.
 
Zero Tolerance said:
P-5-P should help with the progesterone gyno side effects. I've been taking HCG for about 2 weeks now - 250iu every 3-4 days - and I'm fine so far.
Click to expand...

P-5-P helps to lower Prolactin (not Progesterone as far as I know) because it helps to increase dopamine. Imo, P5P should be taken with L-dopa for it to work well (without having to take huge doses).

Curious if anyone here knows how to lower PROG? I've had troubles with elevated Progesterone in the past but I have no idea how to lower it and can't find a good method either. All I know is that it's produced in the adrenals, so would taking HC help lower it?
 
Gutterpump said:
Curious if anyone here knows how to lower PROG? I've had troubles with elevated Progesterone in the past but I have no idea how to lower it and can't find a good method either. All I know is that it's produced in the adrenals, so would taking HC help lower it?
Click to expand...

I asked this before and nobody knew how to reduce prog. I was also taking pregnenolone which i think is a mistake for hcg monotherapy. Preg is created in the testes and hcg stimulates production. Preg can easily turn into prog.
 
Gutterpump said:
P-5-P helps to lower Prolactin (not Progesterone as far as I know) because it helps to increase dopamine. Imo, P5P should be taken with L-dopa for it to work well (without having to take huge doses).

Curious if anyone here knows how to lower PROG? I've had troubles with elevated Progesterone in the past but I have no idea how to lower it and can't find a good method either. All I know is that it's produced in the adrenals, so would taking HC help lower it?
Click to expand...

Gutterpump,
Can you pls tell me what are the symptoms of high PROG?
 
longrob said:
Gutterpump,
Can you pls tell me what are the symptoms of high PROG?
Click to expand...


I don't know exactly, but I know it can cause gyno, lethary, lack of libido, etc.

I had no idea I had it before until I tested double the top range for it in the past. I think having high levels is a sign to have adrenals tested as well.
 
Gutterpump said:
I don't know exactly, but I know it can cause gyno, lethary, lack of libido, etc.

I had no idea I had it before until I tested double the top range for it in the past. I think having high levels is a sign to have adrenals tested as well.
Click to expand...

Makes sense,
I thought about blood tests after I posted that. I've read some PROG cream advertisements that claim PROG can normalize/prevent Estrogen dominance. So I guess I need to research more?
 
I am really confused about PROG tbh. I have no idea why it's used to combat estrogen dominance yet it has similar effect to estrogen when it's high.

I wish I knew how to lower PROG..
 
hey guys, it's just me. I've been on HCG for around 1 month. I feel absolutely awesome! My mood was never better in my life and my wood does a good work. Gym works great, less joints pain and more power. I've just started to feel something in my pants when I see a hot chick on the street... that's an awesome feeling!

Well, that's it. By the way, muscles are growing and growing but gained just 4-5 pounds in one month...expected more.
 
aisstea said:
hey guys, it's just me. I've been on HCG for around 1 month. I feel absolutely awesome! My mood was never better in my life and my wood does a good work. Gym works great, less joints pain and more power. I've just started to feel something in my pants when I see a hot chick on the street... that's an awesome feeling!

Well, that's it. By the way, muscles are growing and growing but gained just 4-5 pounds in one month...expected more.
Click to expand...

That's great!
 
aisstea said:
hey guys, it's just me. I've been on HCG for around 1 month. I feel absolutely awesome! My mood was never better in my life and my wood does a good work. Gym works great, less joints pain and more power. I've just started to feel something in my pants when I see a hot chick on the street... that's an awesome feeling!

Well, that's it. By the way, muscles are growing and growing but gained just 4-5 pounds in one month...expected more.
Click to expand...

Congrats! I have some other health issues holding me back from feeling the full benefits of HCG. But results in the gym are obvious... 5+ lbs so far and friends commenting my arms are getting bigger.
 
That was before I started on HC + HCG, I had low normal test, 370 total. Libido seemed good (decent), I was having sex all the time (I admit I used cialis a lot though) but I could lose interest as well and could almost never get off unless I really tried hard.

I'm on hcg mono now, libido is higher, feel better, erections are fuller and better, morning wood is there, still can lose interest if I don't keep it going and stimulated though.. still can't get off easily either and bacne is baaad, after starting this hcg protocol for 3 months.

I'm sending in a new test this week (supposed to) but I'm having a hard time thinking about stopping the HC in order to get a proper reading on adrenals for the test.

I'm thinking, maybe I need some test as well on top of the hcg but we'll see (my LH was 4 and FSH was 5 when I had a total test of 370). I'm also going to start on legit adex...using research type now...not sold on the quality of it.
 
colkurtz_spf said:
That doesn't seem too high. I was at 2.9 when I took progesterone. What symptoms are you experiencing?
Click to expand...

colkurtz,
Why did you stop the Progesterone? Did you have some symptoms?
A friend of mine found it helped his BPH. Definitely reduced his nighttime urinary frequency from 4 times a night to just once.
Rob
 
Gutterpump said:
That was before I started on HC + HCG, I had low normal test, 370 total. Libido seemed good (decent), I was having sex all the time (I admit I used cialis a lot though) but I could lose interest as well and could almost never get off unless I really tried hard.

I'm on hcg mono now, libido is higher, feel better, erections are fuller and better, morning wood is there, still can lose interest if I don't keep it going and stimulated though.. still can't get off easily either and bacne is baaad, after starting this hcg protocol for 3 months.

I'm sending in a new test this week (supposed to) but I'm having a hard time thinking about stopping the HC in order to get a proper reading on adrenals for the test.

I'm thinking, maybe I need some test as well on top of the hcg but we'll see (my LH was 4 and FSH was 5 when I had a total test of 370). I'm also going to start on legit adex...using research type now...not sold on the quality of it.
Click to expand...

I have the same problem with high progesterone which is a cause for allot of my problems. Dhea was double top of range. LH & FSH were at the bottom, but yet my Test levels were almost mid range which seems impossible having such low LH & FSH numbers.

I'm coming to a theory that since LH & FSH are not stimulating enough Test, I think Adrenals are making up for the rest with the high progesterone, which in turn is causing the high Dhea. I think that the majority of my Test production is coming from the high DHEA. I must be a very unusual case. Been to a few specialist, they haven't really figured this out yet. This is the conclusion I have come to because I think it's impossible to have midrange Test from rock bottom LH & FSH. I can only concluded that my Test is coming from high Dhea, which would be odd for the body to do I would think.

I wish a Specialist could figure that out, but no I guess I have to all on my own. I would think that having rock bottom LH & FSH numbers with midrange Test & Free Test should be some kind of red flag to someone looking at the bloodwork and numbers, but I guess not. I think that I need the high DHEA, but def. don't need it's precursor Progesterone. I suspect the Progest. is giving me the bad libido problems.
 
Do a 24-hr cortisol test, or a 4x cortisol test (saliva test 4x in one day). This is to test adrenals. If your PROG + DHEA are high, adrenals are suspect.

My PROG was high and dhea was low...but my symptoms were mainly of low test but also sluggish and insufficient adrenals.
 
I'm feeling better now that I've been on 350iu (instead of 250) for the past few weeks. New labs next week to see where I'm at and also check progesterone. I think this might be my sweet spot though.
 
I've been taking 250iu of HCG every 4 days for about 2 weeks now and my nipples became very sore - and I feel a soft lump behind my right nipple. I'd been taking about 10mg of Nolvadex daily but I guess that wasn't enough. Now I'm doing my usual Letrozole routine (to shrink it) and I might finish off with some Epistane later in the month (that's worked for me as well). The HCG is obviously working but I can see why one wouldn't want to run it all the time.

I think I'll do a month or two on and a month or two off.. Does that sound like a good idea?
 
Zero Tolerance said:
I've been taking 250iu of HCG every 4 days for about 2 weeks now and my nipples became very sore - and I feel a soft lump behind my right nipple. I'd been taking about 10mg of Nolvadex daily but I guess that wasn't enough. Now I'm doing my usual Letrozole routine (to shrink it) and I might finish off with some Epistane later in the month (that's worked for me as well). The HCG is obviously working but I can see why one wouldn't want to run it all the time.

I think I'll do a month or two on and a month or two off.. Does that sound like a good idea?
Click to expand...

A month off would drop levels too low for me... I plan to stay on it indefinitely to keep my T levels normalized. My nips were sore when I dosed too high, but its going away now since I backed down to 350. 250iu is a pretty low dose... have you talked to your doc, or done any labs (E2, progesterone)? That is the only way to know what's really going on.
 
LeanGuy said:
A month off would drop levels too low for me... I plan to stay on it indefinitely to keep my T levels normalized. My nips were sore when I dosed too high, but its going away now since I backed down to 350. 250iu is a pretty low dose... have you talked to your doc, or done any labs (E2, progesterone)? That is the only way to know what's really going on.
Click to expand...
No labs yet. I'll be getting blood work done shortly.. My testosterone dose is kinda high.. A little over 200mg per week.. Maybe that has something to do with it..
 
I've been on HCG over a month.....350-400IU...every fourth day. So not so often like the most here.

I am horny like rabbit, dream the whole night about sex and my mood is still a sensation. Love it! I've gained unfortunately just 5 pounds but look amazing in compare to before.
 
longrob said:
colkurtz,
Why did you stop the Progesterone? Did you have some symptoms?
A friend of mine found it helped his BPH. Definitely reduced his nighttime urinary frequency from 4 times a night to just once.
Rob
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to respond so late to your question. I didn't notice the activity on this thread.

My doctor put me on progesterone to enhance the effects HCG. After a year, I didn't see any difference in my labs, so I quit. I'm a minimalist.
 
Gutterpump said:
That was before I started on HC + HCG, I had low normal test, 370 total. Libido seemed good (decent), I was having sex all the time (I admit I used cialis a lot though) but I could lose interest as well and could almost never get off unless I really tried hard.

I'm on hcg mono now, libido is higher, feel better, erections are fuller and better, morning wood is there, still can lose interest if I don't keep it going and stimulated though.. still can't get off easily either and bacne is baaad, after starting this hcg protocol for 3 months.

I'm sending in a new test this week (supposed to) but I'm having a hard time thinking about stopping the HC in order to get a proper reading on adrenals for the test.

I'm thinking, maybe I need some test as well on top of the hcg but we'll see (my LH was 4 and FSH was 5 when I had a total test of 370). I'm also going to start on legit adex...using research type now...not sold on the quality of it.
Click to expand...

I thought you were on t too. My lh is about the same as your in a range where the top is 8 point something. I thought hcg is mainly for those with
low lh? What are your levels on this protocol?
 
I was on test and hCG, but I stopped the test and am trying hCG on it's own again. I have a test sitting here that I need to do to see how well it's working, but I definitely feel better than without anything.

hCG is for people with low LH, but it's weird, it didn't do much for me before, but it seems to be working for me now? And the strange thing is I have cut my dose down by 2/3rds!! I am taking 500iu e3d, I was taking 1500iu e3d previously.

When I started this time around (after new years this yr), I had some big issues with e2 (sensitive itchy nips) I was taking an AI everyday...now I only take .5mg with my shot (so only 1.5mg per week of adex) and now I also have crazy bacne, some acne on my chest and a little bit on my face. I didn't have this the first time I tried hCG for a couple months before adding test. I am using the same type of hCG now too (pregnyl). The only thing I have changed is I have doubled or even tripled up on my enzymes and hcl, and eating a lot more fat (on a CKD). Also started isocort and now on low dosed HC. I am slowly stopping the HC before my saliva test, and will be testing bioavailable test, DHT, estradiol, estrone, progesterone, DHEA, and Cortisol 4x this coming week. I stopped the HC today... was sleeping at my desk today by noon..I will wait 3-4 days before doing the test.. in case the low dose of HC effected my natural cort/dhea levels.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top