Hey all,
I have been cutting for 12 weeks for a holiday I’m currently on. I’m back in a week and want to lean bulk for 4 months initially.
I was considering the following stack:
CEL M Test
SNS PA XT
SNS Prime XT
I have taken this stack before but only for 2 months and about the 4/5 weeks stage I started gaining a fair bit of strength, then at 6 weeks I got quite ill so training went down hill.
I’ve always been natural, but have tried doing a lot of research and reading old threads on Stano Plex or Epiandro 300 and it is something that interests me.
Can anyone comment on what I should expect from an 8 week cycle? And also stacked with M Test as I’ve heard it compliments it? And of course cycle assist.
PCT would likely be M Test, AE and Reduce XT but happy for any other suggestions.
I am under the impression it is very mild, but I do worry about DHT and prostate issues, as I’ve read conflicting info on this so any help here would be appreciated!
I hope that you enjoy your holiday.
That is a good stack and if you decide not to go with Stano, good additions could be Anabolic XT, Anabolic Effect, ATP Elite, Alpha One, or Pepti-Bolic.
The decision to stay natural is something I respect and I would encourage you since you have been for so long to think hard about it before changing that, even if for something mild. Sometimes its a mental thing and people wind up regretting it is why I say that.
Yes, M-Test does compliment Stano-Plex.
The results you would expect from an 8 week cycle while in a surplus would be it helping build muscle and minimize fat gain, possibly even seeing some fat loss, strength gains (but not as big as other things you would be taking), and mood boost.
I wouldn't worry about prostate issues on it if using Cycle Assist or Prostate Support XT and I never noticed shedding and am very prone to it, but some people say they have, but usually at higher dosages.
You've gotten varied advice in this thread - I'll say this - the decision for anyone to start using ph's, especially after being natural for a long time, is a significant one and not to be taken lightly. If you do decide to use a ph, Stano/Epiandro would be the best route for a first cycle - but I do think you can do it without it.
Me personally - in my spot, I could walk to the back and get whatever I want to run, and I would pick up the stack you're on + any of the following - Anabolic XT, Anabolic Effect, ATP Elite, Alpha One, Recomp20, Pepti-Plex or Pepti-Bolic - any of those before I'd pick up a bottle of Stano-Plex.
^^^ and that's me being honest, not trying to sell you anything. We're low on Stano-Plex and I want to sell out of it as quickly as possible - but I just don't think its necessarily the right option in your case.
I hope that helps.
Appreciate your reply!
Oh really… thanks for the info, so is it not particularly efficient in gaining muscle? I’d probably say I’d like to gain 4/5lbs of lean muscle in 8 weeks keeping calories around 300 above maintenance, is this unrealistic?
Stano-Plex/Epiandro is good for building muscle, but isn't going to build as much muscle as some ph's, but isn't going to come with the side effects of many of those ph's either.
I’m clearly overestimating what can be done then
As I say I have never run anything other than natural supplements, been training 22 years now, I suppose the reason I thought 1.5kg of lean muscle was possible was because I’ve read a lot of threads saying people can gain 10-20lbs of mass on a prohormone cycle.
The cycles where you hear of people gaining 10 to 20 lbs. - a lot of it is glycogen/water.
5 lbs. of lean muscle is a pretty big amount and can have a massive impact on how a person looks. I do think that its possible but that it depends on a few factors - genetics, how long you've trained, and if any of it is building back muscle that may have been lost in the past, etc.
The reason it appeals is how many people I’ve read say it is so mild in terms of sides, but then I suppose that means gains are very mild.
Is it possible to gain any muscle on this, to Recomp perhaps? Or is it purely for some strength gains and feel good factor?
For someone that has never used a ph before, Stano-Plex is a great first one to use.
Yes, it is possible to gain muscle on Stano-Plex and most people do if that's the way their diet is set up. Some people use it while cutting, but many people do use it during recomp or a lean bulk.
It's important when putting it in context that you're talking lean muscle versus mass (water, glycogen, etc.).
I've used it in the past and liked my results with it and I typically used 600 mg. per day and I liked the way I felt on it. I got slightly better results at 900 mg. but lost the feel good part of it.
Now days, I stick with natural supplements because they've come a long ways.
The appeal of ph's, and I'm not putting them down, we used to sell them - is obviously quick gains. But if you put it in perspective - let's say you gain x amount in 8 weeks, but then have to do a 4 week PCT, you really didn't gain it in 8 weeks, you gained it in 12 weeks with the possibilities of whatever side effects are associated with whatever you chose to use. And your net yield is x gains minus whatever you lost after coming off.
Natural supplements have come so far that if you look at the net yield of what you kept after all the above, you can often find you can get similar gains with natural supplements now.
I used to use Stano-Plex when I was going for a recomp cycle, but honestly haven't used it since Recomp20 came out because I get such good results with that. (I do believe that people that train for strength would do better off Stano-Plex than Recomp20, but I don't max, I view my strength as total weight done over working sets instead of maxing).
Really, no sides with Halodrol? OTC PCT like Stano Plex aswell?
Halodrol absolutely can have side effects and I would never run a methylated ph as a first ph.
We were one of the first companies to ever sell that ingredient back when it was legal and you can find posts from me all the way back then where I told people that while it was one of the milder methylated ph's, a methylated ph would never be my suggestion for anyone's first cycle.
If you are in the US, Halodrol is a Schedule III controlled substance meaning that it's a felony. I know some people don't care, but some people do and don't realize that its that serious.
Funnily enough 11KT by Iron Legion is another I looked at, is this possibly a better option? How are sides, prostate, liver etc? Although Iron Legion is transdermal so could be a good choice?
It's not something I would us with the intention or thought of building muscle. For a first cycle, I would pick Stano-Plex over it because I think that Epiandro is a good mild option for a first cycle.
But, if you've always been natural, I do think that you can find natural options that will work as good or better than the milder ph's now days.
I’ve used most of the legal ones and a couple that used to be legal. As stated Epiandro is mild. I liked it at the end of a cut to feel better on low calories and harden things up a bit. As a cut it will help you hold muscle. In a recomp or bulk you might get an extra pound or 2 of muscle over a 8 week run.
1 andro was better but causes more sides. Natural stuff can be just as good if you stack a few things but it can get more expensive too. I’ve been completely natural the last 3 years now and have the best physique I’ve had with 15 years experience.
That's awesome to hear - being in you best shape ever while being natural for 3 years.
Many thanks for the reply
Can I ask what your favourite natural stack is? I was on the verge of PA XT, M Test (which I take year round) and Prime XT for 16 weeks
That is a very good stack. He made some great add on suggestions - Anabolic XT, Anabolic Effect, and Alpha One.
