Stacking 4-andro w/ Epiandro bad idea?

csline

csline

Member
So it's actually 1, 4 and Epi stacked at 300mg each (Primeval Labs). The 1 andro i like, it obviously need a test base to run with it...the epi andro I've never tried, but I want some size, aka the 4 andro (which I did with 1 andro previously)

Are the Epi and 4 andro too competitive in terms of affinity for conversion and uptake?
 
Yea I'm stoked. Went from 195 lean to 215 somewhat bulk on 8 weeks of 1+4 andro. This cycle I'm starting at 217-220 bodyweight, going to try and cut down to 210 or less and just hit lots and lots of reps and hypertrophy style lifts. Cardio 2-3 days a week. Lean food
 
Yep that's a common stack so your're good to go. If your diet and training are on point you should get good results.
 
Just keep an eye on the shower drain. *Possible* increased risk of hair loss (if genetically pre-disposed to MPB) due to the fact that you are taking (basically) direct DHT *and* getting more from the 5aR of Testosterone. But yeah, it's a really good base if you don't want to risk Trestolone (MENT).
 
I'm on this right now, just Olympus Labs Elite series, 330mg a day of 1/4 split 110 3x and 1000mg of epi split 250/500/250.

It's a great stack. As for epi and 4, I'd personally always run something DHT with something test. DHT will act as an aromatase inhibitor and also is a competitive antagonist at the estrogen receptors. I'd rather do this over an AI (though I still always keep one on hand), as DHT makes me feel way better physically and psychologically.
 
The_Old_Guy said:
Just keep an eye on the shower drain. *Possible* increased risk of hair loss (if genetically pre-disposed to MPB) due to the fact that you are taking (basically) direct DHT *and* getting more from the 5aR of Testosterone. But yeah, it's a really good base if you don't want to risk Trestolone (MENT).
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Hey old guy!
So the epi is nearly direct dht? The 4 is a two step up to test, but is it a single step for epi? Good conversion rates? (I'm not as clear on the total conversion of Epi or of it's very active on its own).

Cheers!

Edited because auto correct auto sucks
 
slggtstrength said:
I'm on this right now, just Olympus Labs Elite series, 330mg a day of 1/4 split 110 3x and 1000mg of epi split 250/500/250.

It's a great stack. As for epi and 4, I'd personally always run something DHT with something test. DHT will act as an aromatase inhibitor and also is a competitive antagonist at the estrogen receptors. I'd rather do this over an AI (though I still always keep one on hand), as DHT makes me feel way better physically and psychologically.
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Yeah I think of everything I've taken Epi-Andro is the best feel good setup. I dosed it up to 750 a day 500pwo and 250 a bit later or early in the day depending on when I'd be at the gym.

You ever get like some muscle pain at 1000 Epi andro a day? I did so I backed out to 750. No one I've spoken to had that issue, figured I'd bring it up again though.

I've yet to try 1 andro but I hear it's a great bulk.
 
sespress said:
Yeah I think of everything I've taken Epi-Andro is the best feel good setup. I dosed it up to 750 a day 500pwo and 250 a bit later or early in the day depending on when I'd be at the gym.

You ever get like some muscle pain at 1000 Epi andro a day? I did so I backed out to 750. No one I've spoken to had that issue, figured I'd bring it up again though.

I've yet to try 1 andro but I hear it's a great bulk.
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No muscle pain. Just the typical on cycle intense low back pumps. But taurine deals with those. What type of pain were you having?
 
sespress said:
Hey old guy!
So the epi is nearly direct dht? The 4 is a two step up to test, but is it a single step for epi? Good conversion rates? (I'm not as clear on the total conversion of Epi or of it's very active on its own).

Cheers!

Edited because auto correct auto sucks
Click to expand...
No, Epi is 2 step as well - didn't want to post a chemistry lesson. But its not 5aR mediated, so whatever converts will be DHT.
 
slggtstrength said:
No muscle pain. Just the typical on cycle intense low back pumps. But taurine deals with those. What type of pain were you having?
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After chest I'd get a lingering pain. Not sore, like I got hit. Occasionally some twitchy muscles, only the group worked but worst in the chest.
 
looking to do a very similar setup with 1 andro 330/daily + 4 andro 330 / daily then bring epiandro in the mix at around 300 - 400 mg daily. Thoughts on this?
 
gdawg522 said:
looking to do a very similar setup with 1 andro 330/daily + 4 andro 330 / daily then bring epiandro in the mix at around 300 - 400 mg daily. Thoughts on this?
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Pretty much exactly what I'm doing (except Primeval Labs doses their product in 100mg tabs) so mine is
Week 1: 300mg 1-andro, 200mg 4-andro ED
Week 2: 300mg, 200mg ED
Week 3: 300mg, 200mg, 200mg Epi, ED
Week 4: 300mg, 200mg, 300mg epi, ED
Week 5-8: 300, 200, 300
 
So 8 weeks at 300/200 (1/4 andro respectively) and then on week 3 bring in Epi at 200, and weeks 4-8 Epi at 300mg
 
csline said:
Pretty much exactly what I'm doing (except Primeval Labs doses their product in 100mg tabs) so mine is
Week 1: 300mg 1-andro, 200mg 4-andro ED
Week 2: 300mg, 200mg ED
Week 3: 300mg, 200mg, 200mg Epi, ED
Week 4: 300mg, 200mg, 300mg epi, ED
Week 5-8: 300, 200, 300
Click to expand...

Looks good :)
 
csline said:
So 8 weeks at 300/200 (1/4 andro respectively) and then on week 3 bring in Epi at 200, and weeks 4-8 Epi at 300mg
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You might find you can handle a lot more epi andro than that. I usually go for 500pwo and if you test the waters you might be able to go a bit higher. I never made it into the 1g doses I get really tense feeling and backed it up. But I really thought 500 was the sweet spot about 45 minutes before hitting the weights. I wouldn't start that high but in 8 weeks you could end up there. Based on that I go for whatever BOGO opportunity I find on the stuff lol, the recommended dose is lowish those last two weeks imo.

This is your first run ever? I hate how I can't look back up while posting on the app lol, I thought you might have said that. People mentioned having a real AI handy right? Just in case? At week 6 of the 4/epi andro run I did I needed an AI. I was increasing the dose of 4-andro so that makes sense but that stuff isn't straight test and not everyone needs an AI on it.

I was stupid, had none, and then ended up scraping the checking account and tried to rush shipment of a nom-pharma product to the house, taking Clomid that last week just to make sure I didn't get gyno. It sucked and it was stressful worrying about that. My advice (again I can't look back damn, hope this isn't a dead horse I'm beating) is to grab one now, pharma if you can and sit on it. You never know and you'll want the stuff the DAY symptoms show or prepare to curse USPS loudly for the 4 day delivery time.
 
sespress said:
You might find you can handle a lot more epi andro than that. I usually go for 500pwo and if you test the waters you might be able to go a bit higher. I never made it into the 1g doses I get really tense feeling and backed it up. But I really thought 500 was the sweet spot about 45 minutes before hitting the weights. I wouldn't start that high but in 8 weeks you could end up there. Based on that I go for whatever BOGO opportunity I find on the stuff lol, the recommended dose is lowish those last two weeks imo.

This is your first run ever? I hate how I can't look back up while posting on the app lol, I thought you might have said that. People mentioned having a real AI handy right? Just in case? At week 6 of the 4/epi andro run I did I needed an AI. I was increasing the dose of 4-andro so that makes sense but that stuff isn't straight test and not everyone needs an AI on it.

I was stupid, had none, and then ended up scraping the checking account and tried to rush shipment of a nom-pharma product to the house, taking Clomid that last week just to make sure I didn't get gyno. It sucked and it was stressful worrying about that. My advice (again I can't look back damn, hope this isn't a dead horse I'm beating) is to grab one now, pharma if you can and sit on it. You never know and you'll want the stuff the DAY symptoms show or prepare to curse USPS loudly for the 4 day delivery time.
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It's my first time running epi, but I've ran 4-andro and 1-andro together once before. I did a full 8 weeks and didn't have any gyno sides whatsoever, and the last 2 weeks I was running 4andro at 400mg daily. I'll be running arimistane probably last 3 weeks to help keep estrogen down as it is, but I'm not very worried about the estrogen conversion. From my understanding, epiandro doesn't covert to estrogen because it converts to DHT, which won't aromatize, so I'm assuming any estrogen related sides you were having were from 4-andro, which converts to real testosterone, which obviously will aromatize. I've also read (but haven't researched) how epiandro (and perhaps just DHT in general?) can act as an AI to a some degree as well. But not sure how much effect it actually has.

Had you had gyno effects from other cycles? Or ran 4-andro before and had sides?

I hear ya on the dosing for epiandro though. My though was that since I'm running 1-andro at a respective dose and 4-andro at more of a baseline dose that I wouldn't need to go crazy on the epiandro as well. But, maybe I should? Hmm....
 
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csline said:
It's my first time running epi, but I've ran 4-andro and 1-andro together once before. I did a full 8 weeks and didn't have any gyno sides whatsoever, and the last 2 weeks I was running 4andro at 400mg daily. I'll be running arimistane probably last 3 weeks to help keep estrogen down as it is, but I'm not very worried about the estrogen conversion. From my understanding, epiandro doesn't covert to estrogen because it converts to DHT, which won't aromatize, so I'm assuming any estrogen related sides you were having were from 4-andro, which converts to real testosterone, which obviously will aromatize. I've also read (but haven't researched) how epiandro (and perhaps just DHT in general?) can act as an AI to a some degree as well. But not sure how much effect it actually has.

Had you had gyno effects from other cycles? Or ran 4-andro before and had sides?

I hear ya on the dosing for epiandro though. My though was that since I'm running 1-andro at a respective dose and 4-andro at more of a baseline dose that I wouldn't need to go crazy on the epiandro as well. But, maybe I should? Hmm....
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Dht does apparently has some anti estrogen effects from what I've read too. Epistane has been credited like this and some other AAS I've heard of, I think the ones that get that good rap are those based on dht. I Was on epi andro when I got symptoms from the 4-Andro and I've run much stronger stuff before. I know this seems to play harder on guys with more bf% so that could be why it happened to me, but I've also done much stronger stuff in the past. Just keep an eye out for any symptoms.
 
Hi

Some one have a name of brand who have a supplement who stack 4 Andro and Epi in a same bottle ?

I tourned on many website but nothing concrete. I remember to saw one once some mix in drops bottle, but unable to find it. It was not a TD but a sublingual. I also saw Combinations at Steel suplmment but it's something else like DHEA+EPI or 1 ANDro+EPi+Epicat...

I put aside TDs like Alpha Gainz Alpha Andro TD
 
Oliver Kween said:
Hi

Some one have a name of brand who have a supplement who stack 4 Andro and Epi in a same bottle ?

I tourned on many website but nothing concrete. I remember to saw one once some mix in drops bottle, but unable to find it. It was not a TD but a sublingual. I also saw Combinations at Steel suplmment but it's something else like DHEA+EPI or 1 ANDro+EPi+Epicat...

I put aside TDs like Alpha Gainz Alpha Andro TD
Click to expand...
Don't know why you would want this. Buying the two separate lets you alter ratio off doses. Don't assume that a combo product has the correct dosage for you. Different bodytypes react to different compounds in their own way. You may find that epi doesn't agree with you but 4 andro is fine so you can keep that in and add something else or lower dosage of epi.
 
Wobmarvel said:
Don't know why you would want this. Buying the two separate lets you alter ratio off doses. Don't assume that a combo product has the correct dosage for you. Different bodytypes react to different compounds in their own way. You may find that epi doesn't agree with you but 4 andro is fine so you can keep that in and add something else or lower dosage of epi.
Click to expand...

I’m also a fan of things being individually dosed.
 
Oliver Kween said:
Hi

Some one have a name of brand who have a supplement who stack 4 Andro and Epi in a same bottle ?

I tourned on many website but nothing concrete. I remember to saw one once some mix in drops bottle, but unable to find it. It was not a TD but a sublingual. I also saw Combinations at Steel suplmment but it's something else like DHEA+EPI or 1 ANDro+EPi+Epicat...

I put aside TDs like Alpha Gainz Alpha Andro TD
Click to expand...

not exactly what you're looking for, but Iconic Formulations Alpha Four was 4-dhea + androsterone...awesesome combination. can still find at retailers
 
Yes, I had thought of a solution to avoid accumulating capsules in the stomach. I absorb both well anyway.

Then why not as long as I do with quality if I take CEL for EPI and I only have BRUTAL FORCE for ANDRO
If anyone has a good brand?

I will later test STANOGEN Apex which I already have and TD ANDRO from Alpha Gainz I also saw TDs at ML

EDIT: AND Alpha Four xD

Thanks
 
delsolrob said:
not exactly what you're looking for, but Iconic Formulations Alpha Four was 4-dhea + androsterone...awesesome combination. can still find at retailers
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I saw this but went with the alpha Seven(I've got some 4-dhea on hand) This should be gold for keeping my BW tight and increasing strength.
 
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