Squat depth article..

[anab0lix]

The Real Science of Squat Depth - AnabolicMinds.com

I've been squatting ATG for years and have no problems. I mean people that have been doing it longer than me have no problems as well. I thought it was the consensus that the people who were going 90 degrees were the ones that had more joint problems..?

In fact when I have tried 90 degrees I felt more strain on my knees and it only makes sense since the quads are used more with that ROM and all that strain is put on to the knees.

When you get to the bottom you get to use the help of all of your leg muscles to help drive up with the weight shifted to your hips when you get to that position which is designed much better for that amount of weight to be put on it

Am I crazy?

 

[puccah8808]

I hate atg because it kills my knees. I go pretty fast and kinda bounce up.

 

[anab0lix]

Bounce up while doing ATG or parallel? Shouldn't be bouncing anytime during any squats though.

 

[puccah8808]

I do it for speed.

 

[jake1986]

Really depends on how tall you are. How long your femurs are. I can drop all the way down. I do sometimes, and tbh i think it's really cool. but its def probably not for everyone.

 

[anab0lix]

What does how long your femurs are have to do with squatting below 90 degrees?

ATG doesn't always literally mean your ass is touching the ground. At least I thought it just means going past 90 degrees as far as you can go.

 

[jake1986]

Having longer legs creates more forward tilt of the torso.

 

[jake1986]

Flexibility in the ankles is an influence. (& i know its just a figure of speech)

 

[jake1986]

I learned a great deal about training from Frederic Delavier's STRENGTH TRAINING ANATOMY when I started over 3 years ago. He included alot of info about different morphologies in the third edition.

 

[anab0lix]

I have the second edition. But anyways, I think it really has to do with getting the form down as best you can with lighter weight. It's mostly people who don't want to perfect the form and just jump to heavy weights that can't seem to do it properly.

I have longer legs compared to my upper body. Though I am no professional so I guess I have no say. But to say that ATG squats are incorrect....righttt....


Can you just imagine an Olympic lifter squat cleaning 400lbs and then during the squat he stops at 90 degrees? Knees would probably explode.

 

[jake1986]

I have an old issue of flex magazine where they concluded atg wasn't superior either. But if that's what floats your boat! Lol. I say do em! Like i said, I think they're cool. Arron Clark (IfBB pro) does em atg with 405!

 

[anab0lix]

Hmm I should make Flex mag a credible source for my training from now on!


Jokes. Yeah I guess whatever works for each of us..

 

[GaWd]

Many people tell me that I squat "ass to grass" when they see me squat. In truth, I squat to below parallel, but people are so used to seeing douchebags in the gym squatting the higher weights that I do for 6" of travel that they call what I do "ATG".

So I think people's perspectives are a bit off, too. Most people cannot squat ATG at all under a load; save for olympic lifters who must do so to complete their lifts.

 

[UCSMiami]

I think and feel ATG is best as it places the weight on the glutes, hamstrings, back so there is not forward shift over the knees leading to knee injury. It is a case of either the weight is able to be pushed back up again with the posterior chain muscles or too much weight is being used for current conditioning.

When in doubt, lessen the load.


I notice less weight is bearable using ATG compared to past parallel, then less weight at past parallel compared to above parallel, then above parallel to quarter squat which is what I see most often at the gym.

NB: We have a mirror facing the rack so I see my progession being from ATG to just below parallel as the weight is loaded in between sets.

 

[bolt10]

I couldn't read that article (common with that site lately...).

A better read from there that may start to clear up some misconceptions: https://www.t-nation.com/training/do-you-need-to-squat-deeply

 

[puccah8808]

I couldn't read that article (common with that site lately...).

A better read from there that may start to clear up some misconceptions: https://www.t-nation.com/training/do-you-need-to-squat-deeply

Awesome article!

??? some people just can't squat deep without pain. That's me!

 

[asooneyeonig]

Really depends on how tall you are. How long your femurs are. I can drop all the way down. I do sometimes, and tbh i think it's really cool. but its def probably not for everyone.

then learn to squat properly. your hips sit between your legs not on top of them. long legs do not cause a more forward any more than bad form, like squatting on top of your legs. keep your knees apart and you will squat deep and without issue.

 

[ToughMech]

I always try to go below parallel, at least until I become too fatigued. I recently just did box squats for the first time and I felt it in my quads a lot and if I remember correctly that was more likely to bother my knees as well. I never had any issues with traditional no matter how low I went.

 

[Zoomie33240]

I have seen awesome leg development over the past couple of years from going slightly below parallel (just to the point before you start to round the lower back). Squatting below parallel is IMO the absolute best way for a bodybuilder to gain strength/leg mass. Just so long as you don't round your lower back and have near perfect for you are golden. Also, goblet squats can REALLY help build squat strength. Goblet squats are probably the overall best leg builder I have ever done.

 

[Zoomie33240]

Also, only doing a half squat or above parallel squat will destroy your knees! Unless you specifically need them for some kind of sports training or specialty training. That T-nation article was really good info.

 

[ToughMech]

I have seen awesome leg development over the past couple of years from going slightly below parallel (just to the point before you start to round the lower back). Squatting below parallel is IMO the absolute best way for a bodybuilder to gain strength/leg mass. Just so long as you don't round your lower back and have near perfect for you are golden. Also, goblet squats can REALLY help build squat strength. Goblet squats are probably the overall best leg builder I have ever done.

I liked goblet squats, however, I rarely do them anymore because it bothers my upper body more by holding the weight when I try to go heavy. I usually have to stop because of that rather than my legs itself.

 

[UCSMiami]

I read up recently on Zercher squats. We do those with sandbags at boot camp. Never tried with a barbell.

 

[Zoomie33240]

I liked goblet squats, however, I rarely do them anymore because it bothers my upper body more by holding the weight when I try to go heavy. I usually have to stop because of that rather than my legs itself.

How are you holding the DB?

 

[ToughMech]

How are you holding the DB?

I've tried it two ways. Holding it vertically and I will hold the upper portion of it and also horizontal with a hand on each end.

 

[Zoomie33240]

I've tried it two ways. Holding it vertically and I will hold the upper portion of it and also horizontal with a hand on each end.

Wow, I still can't believe that it gives issues trying it all of those different ways.

 

[muddertougher]

Ass to the grass !

 

[Gutterpump]

Ass to grass for me, always.... with a semi-wide stance and toes out a bit. I get a lot of drive through the posterior chain this way. Doesn't bother my knees one bit.

 

[Rodja]

ATG generally becomes a rebound squat with emphasis on quads and glutes. Parallel or slightly beyond requires stopping power from the hamstring. Depending how you're built, an at depth squat can be more difficult despite the shorter ROM.

 

[Gutterpump]

ATG generally becomes a rebound squat with emphasis on quads and glutes. Parallel or slightly beyond requires stopping power from the hamstring. Depending how you're built, an at depth squat can be more difficult despite the shorter ROM.

I don't get any rebound, or at least I don't feel I do on heavy weight. I definitely go far beyond parallel, but on my ascension, I feel it most in my hips and hamstrings (not in my quads). Of course bar placement also plays a roll in this (low bar squats).

 

[Rodja]

I don't get any rebound, or at least I don't feel I do on heavy weight. I definitely go far beyond parallel, but on my ascension, I feel it most in my hips and hamstrings (not in my quads). Of course bar placement also plays a roll in this (low bar squats).

Even on a rebound squat, you won't feel it in the quads unless you're knees are shooting forward, but that's a horrible technical deviation.

 

[Gutterpump]

Even on a rebound squat, you won't feel it in the quads unless you're knees are shooting forward, but that's a horrible technical deviation.

Hrm.. I'm starting to wonder now. Would you consider this ATG or a rebound squat? I definitely feel like I'm more than 20degrees past parallel, maybe more.

https://www.instagram.com/p/-uzXz6jFDB/

 

[UCSMiami]

The knees moving forward are always due to too much weight assuming initial stance was fine? Is that correct?

 

[Gutterpump]

The knees moving forward are always due to too much weight assuming initial stance was fine? Is that correct?

I've never seen knees move forward, but I see them move inwards for some people when lifting very heavy. Knees out!!!

 

[Rodja]

Hrm.. I'm starting to wonder now. Would you consider this ATG or a rebound squat? I definitely feel like I'm more than 20degrees past parallel, maybe more.

https://www.instagram.com/p/-uzXz6jFDB/

It's both. Far beyond parallel, but out of the hole is rebound.

 

[Rodja]

The knees moving forward are always due to too much weight assuming initial stance was fine? Is that correct?

Initial break is at the knees instead of hips.

I've never seen knees move forward, but I see them move inwards for some people when lifting very heavy. Knees out!!!

I'm sure you see knees shoot forward everyday.

 

[Gutterpump]

I'm sure you see knees shoot forward everyday.

I'll have to pay more attention watching people squat. I definitely notice the inwards motion a lot, especially on new lifters.

Also the butt wink at the bottom, when their core stability is broken.

 

[Rodja]

I'll have to pay more attention watching people squat. I definitely notice the inwards motion a lot, especially on new lifters.

Also the butt wink at the bottom, when their core stability is broken.

Butt wink has multiple causes and can be anything from the ankles to the erectors.

 

[UCSMiami]

OK. I meant folks creep forward over the knees and then the knees take the load for more hoisting.

 

[Rodja]

OK. I meant folks creep forward over the knees and then the knees take the load for more hoisting.

That's one deviation, but it doesn't always occur on the squat. If that does occur, it's a technical issue and the weight becomes almost secondary to the technique issues.