Spondylolisthesis

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Anybody else deal with this? I have it at L5.. Some are saying fusion as an only option, while others are saying the epidural injection will help a lot.
The pain is from my right glute down to my right ankle. Walking and standing is brutal. I can sit and ride my mountain bike all day long with zero pain.
Had an MRI 2 days ago. Going to try to post a pic.
Also gonna post a pic of xray.
20200203_200934.jpeg
FB_IMG_1580821564061.jpeg
 

DrChicken

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Anybody else deal with this? I have it at L5.. Some are saying fusion as an only option, while others are saying the epidural injection will help a lot.
The pain is from my right glute down to my right ankle. Walking and standing is brutal. I can sit and ride my mountain bike all day long with zero pain.
Had an MRI 2 days ago. Going to try to post a pic.
Also gonna post a pic of xray.
View attachment 190662View attachment 190663
Looking at this I hVe two questions:

1- did these symptoms just occur?
2- did you get into a car accident / fall?

The reality is this- that is slipped between 25-50%
Majority of the time these are congenital (you’re born with them) and they don’t present symptoms

With the symptoms you’re having though you may need to consider surgery.

Look for a good sports chiropractor in your area. Adjusting that sacrum into flexion will alleviate symptoms but with the severity it will not be a permanent fix

You may need surgery-
Consult with the orthopedic surgeon, ask if you can try chiropractic first
Give that a shot for 2-3 months and if you have no relief (providing the chiro gives you PT exercises as well) - you might want to consider SX

The fact that it feels better seated and biking tells us what the image shows us.
This does not mean it’s “ok” it just means that this likely is what’s causing your symptoms and not something else

Disclaimer; this is not medical advice
Consult your Orthopedic surgeon
 
boooosted

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Oh man how long have you had this for? I had a client with it and it effected all of her daily activities. It seemed really tough to get through a day. Have you seen a chiropractor at all for it? I know some people don't believe in them but this woman was seeing one for years and she said he was the only thing keeping her mobile. I would personally try anything before a fusion but I don't know how long an epidural would last. It seems like it would just temporarily mask the pain. I hope you find something to relieve the pain though.
 

DrChicken

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Oh man how long have you had this for? I had a client with it and it effected all of her daily activities. It seemed really tough to get through a day. Have you seen a chiropractor at all for it? I know some people don't believe in them but this woman was seeing one for years and she said he was the only thing keeping her mobile. I would personally try anything before a fusion but I don't know how long an epidural would last. It seems like it would just temporarily mask the pain. I hope you find something to relieve the pain though.
The cortisone shot helps people for different lengths of time
Some ppl get half a year of relief
Some people a few months

Others a month, then need another shot, and another.

People who don’t “believe” in chiropractic are stuck in the past and probably believe in reefer madness also.

It saved me and so many others from surgery etc
 

DrChicken

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Oh man how long have you had this for? I had a client with it and it effected all of her daily activities. It seemed really tough to get through a day. Have you seen a chiropractor at all for it? I know some people don't believe in them but this woman was seeing one for years and she said he was the only thing keeping her mobile. I would personally try anything before a fusion but I don't know how long an epidural would last. It seems like it would just temporarily mask the pain. I hope you find something to relieve the pain though.
The cortisone shot helps people for different lengths of time
Some ppl get half a year of relief
Some people a few months

Others a month, then need another shot, and another.

People who don’t “believe” in chiropractic are stuck in the past and probably believe in reefer madness also.

It saved me and so many others from surgery etc
 
bigbeaph

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Good luck brother... diagnosed at 15. 35 now and 7 spinal fusions later I've learned a lot of great lessons on this. If I can help feel free to PM me - I spent 12 years with this being 99%, of my dealings in life.

A lot of people have it and dont ever find out. Its livable in most. A lot of nfl linemen have this.

Just find a way to deal with pain. Opiates are not the answer. No matter how well they work it's not viable for the rest of your life. Dont ever pretend it is.

Go to a chiropractor and he will say he can fix you with adjustments. Go to a PT and he will say he can fix you with exercise and stretching. Go to a surgeon and he will swear you need cut on. A pain management doc will tell you epidurals and pain meds....I could go on but you get the point. They all think they have the answer but only 1 has the best answer for you.

I dont want to rant or pretend like I'm a know it all on the subject. But if I can help someone avoid half of the **** this has put me through in the last 20 years i want to help.
 

DrChicken

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Good luck brother... diagnosed at 15. 35 now and 7 spinal fusions later I've learned a lot of great lessons on this. If I can help feel free to PM me - I spent 12 years with this being 99%, of my dealings in life.

A lot of people have it and dont ever find out. Its livable in most. A lot of nfl linemen have this.

Just find a way to deal with pain. Opiates are not the answer. No matter how well they work it's not viable for the rest of your life. Dont ever pretend it is.

Go to a chiropractor and he will say he can fix you with adjustments. Go to a PT and he will say he can fix you with exercise and stretching. Go to a surgeon and he will swear you need cut on. A pain management doc will tell you epidurals and pain meds....I could go on but you get the point. They all think they have the answer but only 1 has the best answer for you.

I dont want to rant or pretend like I'm a know it all on the subject. But if I can help someone avoid half of the **** this has put me through in the last 20 years i want to help.
Yeah I mentioned above chiro would only be temporary relief, but this is the best answer
 
bigbeaph

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Yeah I mentioned above chiro would only be temporary relief, but this is the best answer
Some of them swear they can "teach" your muscles and spine to stay where it needs to be through a lot of time and manipulation. Chiros did nothing for me but I'm sure in some situations they can do that to some degree. My point is they are all full of sh!t bc they think they know the answer, but at the same time at least one of them does indeed have the correct answer. There is so much to sift through when dealing with back problems. But dont take that as me talking sh!t on chiros - they are all helpful at some point. I just hate the god complex so many healers have...be open to new info!
 
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Thank you all for the replies.
I've had this condition for well over 20 years.. The pain presented itself about 3 months ago. It just gradually started getting more painful each day with each step.
I went to both my chiropractor and eventually went to pt.. Both would smile at me and say I was making good progress while I would walk out feeling no better.
I finally went to the surgeon and he put me on the 6 day methylprednisolone pack. I think that provided some relief. I can now walk longer distances before having to stop.
Different Drs have given me muscle relaxers, but those do absolutely nothing but make me sleepy..
I was recently referred to the pain management Dr, and yes, he's the one who is recommending the epidural shot..
A friend of mine who is a gp Dr said T this point, I should avoid a chiropractor manipulating my spine for fear of more damage..

@bigbeaph did you say multiple fusions?? Goodness, that's not what I want to see. Lol.

I just want to be able to stand up to pee and walk through the Home Depot pain free. Lol
 
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Thank you all for the replies.
I've had this condition for well over 20 years.. The pain presented itself about 3 months ago. It just gradually started getting more painful each day with each step.
I went to both my chiropractor and eventually went to pt.. Both would smile at me and say I was making good progress while I would walk out feeling no better.
I finally went to the surgeon and he put me on the 6 day methylprednisolone pack. I think that provided some relief. I can now walk longer distances before having to stop.
Different Drs have given me muscle relaxers, but those do absolutely nothing but make me sleepy..
I was recently referred to the pain management Dr, and yes, he's the one who is recommending the epidural shot..
A friend of mine who is a gp Dr said T this point, I should avoid a chiropractor manipulating my spine for fear of more damage..

@bigbeaph did you say multiple fusions?? Goodness, that's not what I want to see. Lol.

I just want to be able to stand up to pee and walk through the Home Depot pain free. Lol
 
ELROCK

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Good luck brother... diagnosed at 15. 35 now and 7 spinal fusions later I've learned a lot of great lessons on this. If I can help feel free to PM me - I spent 12 years with this being 99%, of my dealings in life.

A lot of people have it and dont ever find out. Its livable in most. A lot of nfl linemen have this.

Just find a way to deal with pain. Opiates are not the answer. No matter how well they work it's not viable for the rest of your life. Dont ever pretend it is.

Go to a chiropractor and he will say he can fix you with adjustments. Go to a PT and he will say he can fix you with exercise and stretching. Go to a surgeon and he will swear you need cut on. A pain management doc will tell you epidurals and pain meds....I could go on but you get the point. They all think they have the answer but only 1 has the best answer for you.

I dont want to rant or pretend like I'm a know it all on the subject. But if I can help someone avoid half of the **** this has put me through in the last 20 years i want to help.
Good post. What do you suggest?
 

DrChicken

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Thank you all for the replies.
I've had this condition for well over 20 years.. The pain presented itself about 3 months ago. It just gradually started getting more painful each day with each step.
I went to both my chiropractor and eventually went to pt.. Both would smile at me and say I was making good progress while I would walk out feeling no better.
I finally went to the surgeon and he put me on the 6 day methylprednisolone pack. I think that provided some relief. I can now walk longer distances before having to stop.
Different Drs have given me muscle relaxers, but those do absolutely nothing but make me sleepy..
I was recently referred to the pain management Dr, and yes, he's the one who is recommending the epidural shot..
A friend of mine who is a gp Dr said T this point, I should avoid a chiropractor manipulating my spine for fear of more damage..

@bigbeaph did you say multiple fusions?? Goodness, that's not what I want to see. Lol.

I just want to be able to stand up to pee and walk through the Home Depot pain free. Lol
Looking at the MRI again you can see clearly where your spinal cord is getting pinched

I don’t want to give you a poor hopes but at that point it’s usually surgery.

I’d bet if you’re at the grocery store and lean over the grocery cart it probably feels better?

I’d also bet if after walking you sit down and the pain cools off a bit?

In the mean time I’d avoid any extension based exercise
If you deadlift ( I wouldn’t advise it) do not lean back at the top like many do.
 
bigbeaph

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Thank you all for the replies.
I've had this condition for well over 20 years.. The pain presented itself about 3 months ago. It just gradually started getting more painful each day with each step.
I went to both my chiropractor and eventually went to pt.. Both would smile at me and say I was making good progress while I would walk out feeling no better.
I finally went to the surgeon and he put me on the 6 day methylprednisolone pack. I think that provided some relief. I can now walk longer distances before having to stop.
Different Drs have given me muscle relaxers, but those do absolutely nothing but make me sleepy..
I was recently referred to the pain management Dr, and yes, he's the one who is recommending the epidural shot..
A friend of mine who is a gp Dr said T this point, I should avoid a chiropractor manipulating my spine for fear of more damage..

@bigbeaph did you say multiple fusions?? Goodness, that's not what I want to see. Lol.

I just want to be able to stand up to pee and walk through the Home Depot pain free. Lol
I hear you about the goals. Mine was just to be able to play with my kids. I was lucky and found an incredible surgeon to fix what the original surgeon messed up - plus a crushed metal cage that replaced a disc....I can only assume that was from heavy squats lol. After a few more rounds at the hospital I'm in the best shape of my life. I do use kratom daily for pain - but that's it. It's become a great tool for me to still hop out of bed and kick a$$ everyday.

Out of the million things I tried - the inversion table did the most for me. For a year I'd even wake up 2-3X per night and just flip over for a few minutes to decompress- pain would dissipate- and get back to bed. I love those things. Another thing I learned was every doc does an epidural a little different. I literally had a ton that did nothing - found a superb pain doc and his would buy me a little relief. Just me thinking out loud - but if you can get a good epidural and at the same time achieve some decompression I bet that could be a big game changer. There was even a tens unit I had implanted in my spine that helped to a degree. Theres a ton of options out there.
 
bigbeaph

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Thank you. Yes, I lean on everything I can find..
Hope you can keep the surgery at bay brother. I dont know where in the country you are but I'd share the info from my doc with you. Took many visits over about 8 states to find the guy willing to do mine...hes a freak of a surgeon.

I dont think the surgery is so bad it's more the lack of surgeons that can adapt to each case.....as each is truly different. It's not a "normal" procedure like some treat it. It's very unique to each individual.
 

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Looks about like my back, honestly. A good chiropractor saved me with IDD sessions. Two sessions with the correct angle had me off pain meds. There was still some pain, mainly in the morning and when I started getting fatigued, but I could deal with it. Next step was a nerve ablation after several steroid shots. The ablation helped a lot too, but it’s still something you have to learn to manage. I may have to get surgery someday, but trying to prolong it as long as possible.
 
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Hope you can keep the surgery at bay brother. I dont know where in the country you are but I'd share the info from my doc with you. Took many visits over about 8 states to find the guy willing to do mine...hes a freak of a surgeon.

I dont think the surgery is so bad it's more the lack of surgeons that can adapt to each case.....as each is truly different. It's not a "normal" procedure like some treat it. It's very unique to each individual.
I'm in Baton Rouge. I've been getting a lot of referrals for 2 doctors. Fortunately for me, one of them is already my dr..
 
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Looks about like my back, honestly. A good chiropractor saved me with IDD sessions. Two sessions with the correct angle had me off pain meds. There was still some pain, mainly in the morning and when I started getting fatigued, but I could deal with it. Next step was a nerve ablation after several steroid shots. The ablation helped a lot too, but it’s still something you have to learn to manage. I may have to get surgery someday, but trying to prolong it as long as possible.
A friend of my wife mentioned that ablation.. Sounds scarier than the surgery. Lol.
At this point, I've all but given up on the chiropractor.. He's tried so many things and nothing's helped..
 

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A friend of my wife mentioned that ablation.. Sounds scarier than the surgery. Lol.
At this point, I've all but given up on the chiropractor.. He's tried so many things and nothing's helped..
what part of it sounds scary? Was in and out in minutes and they put you under. A little sore for about 24 hours after but nothing serious. Helped me a good bit.
 

DrChicken

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A friend of my wife mentioned that ablation.. Sounds scarier than the surgery. Lol.
At this point, I've all but given up on the chiropractor.. He's tried so many things and nothing's helped..
Hey man at least you gave conservative care a shot.

Too many people just jump to surgery and opioids these days

Keep talking to the surgeon and see what they can do for you.

Have you tried the cortisone shot yet? I can’t remember
 
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Hey man at least you gave conservative care a shot.

Too many people just jump to surgery and opioids these days

Keep talking to the surgeon and see what they can do for you.

Have you tried the cortisone shot yet? I can’t remember
I'm waiting on insurance to approve the injection. Was hoping to get it this week.. Maybe next week.
 
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I'm waiting on insurance to approve the injection. Was hoping to get it this week.. Maybe next week.
I put off replacement of my right knee for over 7 years before I finally got it done...cortisone injections every 3 months made it bearable but the relief became less and less over the years...you should be good for at least 3 years of solid relief based on my experience. hope injection helps you as much as me, at least initially.
 

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Cortisone worked for me for about 5 years. Started every 6 mos. then three years ago needed about every 3. Now I get a shot and it’s good for a month. You do feel a lot better. For me about 90%. I won’t do opioids but found a small hit off an indica cannabis vape cart helps to sleep through the night.

I was 5’10” and 200. Did a 12 week cycle of lgd and ostarine lost 15 lbs and felt great. My daily pain is much better. I also focused a lot on core strength.

found a good YouTube channel bob and brad, search spondylolisthesis: 4 exercises to reduce pain

I’ve been researching total disk replacement as with fusion you are down a long road of going back under. My understanding is it just pushes the force up and the next vertebrae takes the load and fails
 
bigbeaph

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I’ve been researching total disk replacement as with fusion you are down a long road of going back under. My understanding is it just pushes the force up and the next vertebrae takes the load and fails
I'm sure there is truth to that as I was told the same thing. Also told that lifting and exercise would speed up the process and would need the next surgery sooner. However....I havent slowed down a bit. And at about 10 years post final surgery I'm better than I was 2 years ago. Much better than 5 years ago and world's ahead of 8byears ago. Point is it continues to improve without feeling any stress above or below. I wouldnt worry about that too much if you need the surgery done.
 
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Well, I had the epidural on Wednesday morning. As of now, it's not helped one bit..
Tired of waking up and going to sleep in pain..
Was really hoping for some relief by today..
 
bigbeaph

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Well, I had the epidural on Wednesday morning. As of now, it's not helped one bit..
Tired of waking up and going to sleep in pain..
Was really hoping for some relief by today..
Sorry to hear that Enhanced. I'd think youd feel some relief by now....onto the giant list of possible fixes I suppose for you
 
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Thanks.. Follow up appt with the surgeon this Friday..
 
cheftepesh1

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Anybody else deal with this? I have it at L5.. Some are saying fusion as an only option, while others are saying the epidural injection will help a lot.
The pain is from my right glute down to my right ankle. Walking and standing is brutal. I can sit and ride my mountain bike all day long with zero pain.
Had an MRI 2 days ago. Going to try to post a pic.
Also gonna post a pic of xray.
View attachment 190662View attachment 190663
Coming from a guy who deals with back issues daily. I have advanced degenerative disc disorder, advanced spinal stenosis, several herniated discs and a torn hamstring. There were other issues that I don’t remember as they were minor. I’ve had two rounds of shots and as they are not a cure they do help.

I would try them.
 
enhanced

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I've had one injection on February 12th.. It didn't help at all. I met with the surgeon last Friday. He suggested one more shot, this time on the side of the spine. He said if that doesn't work, a fusion is next.
 

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Hope coming in from the side helps. If not please keep the thread active as I’ll be watching how your experience from fusion unfolds. I feel im nearly there
 
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I'll definitely keep it updated.
 
cheftepesh1

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I've had one injection on February 12th.. It didn't help at all. I met with the surgeon last Friday. He suggested one more shot, this time on the side of the spine. He said if that doesn't work, a fusion is next.
Not sure where you reside but check out Dr. Samuel Brown in port Jefferson NY. They have several new and innovative procedures. Spinal fusion is a last resort.
 
enhanced

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Not sure where you reside but check out Dr. Samuel Brown in port Jefferson NY. They have several new and innovative procedures. Spinal fusion is a last resort.
Thanks. I'm in Baton Rouge, LA.
 
delsolrob

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gotta come visit me and I'll introduce you to my spinal guy...magician!
 
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I have the same condition as you. I’ve been injected 10 times - most over the last year or so. My relief came from injecting directly into the disc.
I was under the impression that we could only get a few injections per year..
 

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That’s what they say. But I do know some go in more frequently. I believe the dr will up the frequency if that’s the only way you find relief. Not sure though. I try to go in on a 3 month schedule, it’s what works for me
 

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I was under the impression that we could only get a few injections per year..
Two in my neck years ago. One in my mid back last year, five in my lumbar last year and one in lumbar this year. Some of those were more diagnostic than therapeutic.
 
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I was under the impression that we could only get a few injections per year..
Some say. In the couple years leading up to my surgery I'd get 4 at one time. Epidural would be on 2 levels both left and right simultaneously. Those were by far the best ones
 
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There are 5 pages of this on the app but a fusion is the best thing I ever did. I was 21. L4-L5-S1
 
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Funny, doing a search on back conditions and found my own forum.

Having issues myself that aren't getting better...nothing like what you guys have...all my pain is upon waking and if i lay down on my back for a while. Its as if the muscles just stop functioning and everything collapses. Once I walk around and better yet, sit for 20 minutes everything goes away. No pain down the leg, everything local...Just trying to get this better so I never have to do surgery.

Been doing chiro a bit...its helped a little but haven't been able to see him since this corona **** broke out and its gotten worse this past week. bummer.
 
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@Admin have you tried a tens unit? Amazon has plenty and they definitely help.
 
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@Admin have you tried a tens unit? Amazon has plenty and they definitely help.
Long time ago when I had issues the chiro did that plus decompression and adjustments. Maybe I should try it again.

Currently my chiro would do adjustments then manual decompression....felt great when he was doing it and when I had to get up, I needed a minute or two before I could actually sit because it hurt so much. Within 2-3 minutes I could sit and within 20-30 minutes I felt totally normal...until I lay down on my back. Like I said its as the muscle literally turn off, stop supporting the spine until I fire them up again.

Its really getting to me....my wife would agree. lol
 
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And what is a good TENS unit..
 
bigbeaph

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@Admin if the decompression helped before you might really like using an inversion table. When I was going through my worst that thing was the only method that allowed me to get some sleep. Can really be magical
 
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